/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-08-05 / end

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  60. # [15:05] <smaug> annevk: ping
  61. # [15:36] <annevk> pong
  62. # [15:36] <annevk> smaug, ...
  63. # [15:37] <smaug> annevk: about DOMActivate
  64. # [15:37] <smaug> annevk: according to html5 the default action is to dispatch DOMActivate
  65. # [15:38] <smaug> where does it say that only the first default action should occur?
  66. # [15:39] <annevk> the default action of some form of activation (Enter, clicking, etc.) is to dispatch a 'click' event
  67. # [15:39] <annevk> default action of that is to dispatch DOMActivate
  68. # [15:40] <annevk> the first element in tree order with activation behavior gets its activation behavior triggered at that point
  69. # [15:40] <annevk> reverse tree order*
  70. # [15:40] <smaug> annevk: but where does it say that only one DOMActivate gets activated
  71. # [15:41] <annevk> DOMActivate is not activated
  72. # [15:41] <smaug> I thought all default actions should be triggered
  73. # [15:41] <annevk> it's just dispatched
  74. # [15:41] <annevk> I would suggest to read http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#interactive1 carefully although I suppose you have already done so... :)
  75. # [15:41] <smaug> annevk: I've read it carefully
  76. # [15:42] <smaug> how does an element know whether to dispatch DOMActivate or not?
  77. # [15:42] <annevk> that doesn't matter
  78. # [15:42] <smaug> why not?
  79. # [15:42] <annevk> click is dispatched of which the default action is to dispatch DOMActivate
  80. # [15:43] <annevk> regardless of which element it is
  81. # [15:43] <annevk> click will always have DOMActivate triggered
  82. # [15:43] <smaug> what is the target of the DOMActivate?
  83. # [15:44] <annevk> the same element as that of the click event
  84. # [15:44] <annevk> "must be to fire a further DOMActivate event at the same element"
  85. # [15:44] <smaug> <a>foo<button>bar</button></a>
  86. # [15:44] <smaug> or, <a>foo<span>clickme</span></a>
  87. # [15:44] <smaug> span is the target of the click
  88. # [15:44] <smaug> how does <a> know to dispatch DOMActivate?
  89. # [15:45] <annevk> DOMActivate would be dispatched on <span>
  90. # [15:45] <annevk> and the first element with activation behavior it bubbles through (in the first case, <button>, second case, <a>) will have its activation behavior triggered (submission, following the link)
  91. # [15:45] <annevk> it's pretty clear in the specification
  92. # [15:46] <smaug> it is not clear
  93. # [15:46] <annevk> just read it literally without any bias of what prior specifications might have suggested
  94. # [15:46] <annevk> ok, what part is not clear?
  95. # [15:48] <smaug> the chapter talks about "interactive" elements
  96. # [15:49] <smaug> should DOMActivate be dispatched whether or not click happens inside an interactive element?
  97. # [15:49] <annevk> yes
  98. # [15:50] <smaug> and it also talks about default action, but not where the default action should be handled
  99. # [15:50] <annevk> I suppose that could be made more clear
  100. # [15:50] <annevk> I'm not sure I understand that
  101. # [15:51] <smaug> all the elements may have default actions
  102. # [15:51] <smaug> and also document could have default action
  103. # [15:51] <smaug> and it doesn't matter whether or not the target of the event is the element (or document)
  104. # [15:52] <annevk> it just defines what the default action of click and DOMActivate is
  105. # [15:52] <annevk> for click -> dispatch DOMActivate; for DOMActivate -> activate the first element with activation behavior in reverse tree order
  106. # [15:53] <smaug> I understand activation behavior, since that is different than default action
  107. # [15:53] <smaug> but default action happens in all tree levels, in reverse tree order
  108. # [15:53] <annevk> what do you mean?
  109. # [15:54] <smaug> <a> has a default action for click
  110. # [15:54] <smaug> in gecko it is currently to dispatch DOMActivate
  111. # [15:54] <annevk> it overwrites all that
  112. # [15:55] <annevk> as I said, you have to interpret this literally, without bias
  113. # [15:55] <smaug> webkit has similar meaning for default actions
  114. # [15:55] <smaug> at least it used to have
  115. # [15:56] <annevk> for instance, the <a> element is defined to have activation behavior which would be triggered if anyone click on "foo" in the following cases <a>foo</a>, <a><span>foo</span></a>, <a><span>bar<span>foo</span></a>, etc.
  116. # [15:56] <smaug> hmm, is the meaning of default action defined anywhere..
  117. # [15:56] <annevk> DOM2Events?
  118. # [15:57] <annevk> anyway, this new concept comes much closer to what IE (and Opera) do and is a bit more useful for cases such as <a> foo <input type=submit></a>
  119. # [15:58] <smaug> DOM2Events doesn't define default actions properly
  120. # [15:58] <smaug> it doesn't say whether or not they are happening in node level or document level
  121. # [15:59] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-flow-cancelation
  122. # [15:59] <smaug> nope
  123. # [16:00] <smaug> that just says that event listeners must fire before default action
  124. # [16:00] <annevk> hmm, they are happening at node-level I'd say
  125. # [16:00] <annevk> not sure how you can test that and I'm also not sure how that's relevant here
  126. # [16:01] <smaug> but for all elements there is the default action for "click" event to dispatch DOMActivate if the target of the "click" is the current node
  127. # [16:01] <smaug> ?
  128. # [16:01] <annevk> (well, I see that in Gecko you could get Multiple DOMActivate events now because of how <a>.onclick is handled right now...)
  129. # [16:02] <annevk> smaug, yes, the default action of a click event being dispatched is to dispatch a DOMActivate event
  130. # [16:02] <annevk> although not for synthetic click events aiui
  131. # [16:02] <smaug> but that happens only if the target of the element is the "current" element
  132. # [16:02] <smaug> there is after all some sort of posthandleevent phase
  133. # [16:03] <smaug> apparently in opera too
  134. # [16:03] <smaug> if default actions are node level
  135. # [16:03] <annevk> it doesn't happen during the bubbling phase, no
  136. # [16:03] <annevk> only when it's dispatched
  137. # [16:04] <annevk> I suppose it might be worthwhile to be a bit more explicit about such details in the draft; either in HTML 5 or DOM3Events
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  139. # [16:08] <smaug> annevk: hmm, but does that meaning of default actions apply to all cases
  140. # [16:08] <smaug> how about xbl2?
  141. # [16:08] <smaug> at least it used to be possible to define own default actions
  142. # [16:09] <smaug> node level, and not depending on whether or not the current node is the target of the event
  143. # [16:10] <annevk> I suppose HTML 5 should just be clarified that the click event only does that when the current node is also the target node
  144. # [16:11] <smaug> yes, because that is a special case for a default action
  145. # [16:11] <smaug> xbl2 still has the way to define default actions
  146. # [16:11] <smaug> node level and triggered reversed tree order
  147. # [16:11] <annevk> Yeah, much like <html:form> has a default action for 'submit' too...
  148. # [16:12] <smaug> so html5 is not at all clear
  149. # [16:12] <smaug> it has special meaning for default action in one case
  150. # [16:13] <smaug> in gecko default actions happen always pretty much like in xbl2
  151. # [16:13] <annevk> what it says sort of implies the special case though
  152. # [16:13] <smaug> "implies" :)
  153. # [16:14] <annevk> by using "the element" etc. but it can be better :)
  154. # [16:15] <annevk> I'd suggest raising it on the list and implementing it as if it was more clear :)
  155. # [16:16] * Parts: hasather_ (n=hasather@22.80-203-71.nextgentel.com)
  156. # [16:16] <smaug> or maybe I should come up some more reasonable solution for the problem
  157. # [16:16] <smaug> special casing default action handling sounds like a hack
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  159. # [16:17] <annevk> the default action of the click event, if the target node is the same as the current node, is to dispatch a DOMActivate at the current node
  160. # [16:17] <annevk> seems reasonable to me
  161. # [16:18] <smaug> hmm, yes. that way
  162. # [16:18] <smaug> and it should be clear that it is not about interactive elements
  163. # [16:18] <smaug> but all elements
  164. # [16:18] <smaug> er, all nodes
  165. # [16:19] <smaug> (click may happen also on document, I think)
  166. # [16:19] <annevk> and for DOMActive you just have event listeners set up at the activation behavior elements and a special flag that tells you whether some element has its behavior triggered already
  167. # [16:19] <annevk> or some such
  168. # [16:19] <smaug> activation behavior is clear, sure
  169. # [16:20] <annevk> oh, ok, I thought there was some confusion about first in reverse tree order, but that might have been because of the multiple DOMActivate events...
  170. # [16:27] <smaug> (need to still think about how the click event's default action work with XBL, when there is retargeting happening...)
  171. # [16:28] <annevk> hah, have fun with that, while I take a break from this stuff :)
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The end :)