/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-08-07 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  20. # [02:19] * Hixie discovers Net::IMAP::Simple
  21. # [02:19] * Hixie pokes at his IMAP mail box
  22. # [02:21] <Hixie> 3741 e-mails in my whatwg folders
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  27. # [02:39] <Hixie> the top five names still in my pile of e-mails to deal with are:
  28. # [02:39] <Hixie> Henri Sivonen (245)
  29. # [02:39] <Hixie> Jim Ley (144)
  30. # [02:39] <Hixie> Matthew Raymond (128)
  31. # [02:39] <Hixie> Anne van Kesteren (110)
  32. # [02:39] <Hixie> Lachlan Hunt (109)
  33. # [02:40] <jruderman> too bad you can't just off those people. kill one person and everyone thinks you're a murderer!
  34. # [02:41] <Hixie> what's amusing to me is that two of those five people haven't really posted much recently
  35. # [02:46] <Hixie> two most common subject lines:
  36. # [02:46] <Hixie> Re: [whatwg] Mathematics in HTML5 : 138
  37. # [02:46] <Hixie> Re: [whatwg] on codecs in a 'video' tag. : 74
  38. # [02:46] <Hixie> (remember that these are as yet unanswered e-mails, so they're heavily biased by what i've already replied to)
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  131. # [10:54] <zcorpan> Philip`: did you implement microsyntaxes?
  132. # [11:00] <hsivonen> hmm. some Java APIs are like namespaces: can't remember them
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  137. # [11:31] <krijnh> Why do spambots keep POSTing to 404 URIs :S
  138. # [11:40] <virtuelv_> krijnh: because they also keep POSTing to any URL they have decided
  139. # [11:40] <virtuelv_> I got 10000 POST requests to a document only strictly gettable
  140. # [11:43] <krijnh> Bah
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  150. # [13:47] <hsivonen> hmm. I connected the Xalan serializer manually to Xalan and got ill-formed output (duplicate xmlns)
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  153. # [14:08] <Philip`> zcorpan: I didn't - are you thinking of http://geoffers.no-ip.com/svn/php-html-5-direct/src/trunk/ ?
  154. # [14:12] <zcorpan> Philip`: hmm, perhaps
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  157. # [14:56] <zcorpan> interesting that type="" is authorative on <embed> but ignored on <object>
  158. # [14:59] <annevk> I'd agree that the Web is interesting
  159. # [14:59] <zcorpan> is it required for compat?
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  162. # [15:06] <annevk> zcorpan, maybe, at least when src= is not present
  163. # [15:07] <annevk> not sure it makes much sense trying to risk it for a useless element like <embed>
  164. # [15:07] <zcorpan> annevk: you lost me there
  165. # [15:13] <zcorpan> what happens with <param name="" value="foo">
  166. # [15:15] <hsivonen> I wonder what XHTML-to-XHTML XSLT transformations people tend to do
  167. # [15:15] <hsivonen> I now have only one real-world test case (DanC's task survey transformation)
  168. # [15:15] <zcorpan> (which is broken)
  169. # [15:16] <hsivonen> how?
  170. # [15:16] <zcorpan> it outputs elements in the null namespace
  171. # [15:16] <zcorpan> but works because it's served as text/html
  172. # [15:16] <annevk> zcorpan, <embed type> handling is required for compat when src= is not present (at least)
  173. # [15:16] <hsivonen> ooh. perhaps that's why I saw weirdness with Xalan
  174. # [15:16] <annevk> zcorpan, I'm not sure if changing browser behavior for <embed src type> is worth it
  175. # [15:17] <hsivonen> I already hacked a workaround that trashes xmlns attributes
  176. # [15:17] <hsivonen> but
  177. # [15:17] <hsivonen> with the hack, Xalan gives me sane namespaces scopes.
  178. # [15:17] <hsivonen> hmm.
  179. # [15:17] <zcorpan> annevk: ok. (i'm not suggesting to change it)
  180. # [15:17] <hsivonen> anyway, I am still interested in examples of non-broken XHTML-to-XHTML XSLT transformations
  181. # [15:22] <hsivonen> zcorpan: are you sure that DanC's transformation is broken?
  182. # [15:22] <zcorpan> yes
  183. # [15:22] <zcorpan> <xsl:template match='h:div[h:h3/h:a/@id="xbgbio"]/h:table'>
  184. # [15:22] <zcorpan> <ul>
  185. # [15:22] <zcorpan> no default namespace on the ul
  186. # [15:22] <hsivonen> oh, right that part
  187. # [15:23] * hsivonen notes the non-use of id()
  188. # [15:23] <hsivonen> probably related to the IDness establishment probs
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  190. # [15:26] <hsivonen> http://www.mnot.net/blog/2007/08/07/etags
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  193. # [16:05] <zcorpan> <map ...><area><area .../> doesn't work in firefox
  194. # [16:11] <annevk> seems that only Firefox implies </address> at <table> and <ol>/<ul> ...
  195. # [16:11] <zcorpan> firefox implies </address>?
  196. # [16:12] * zcorpan didn't know
  197. # [16:12] <annevk> I was wondering whether the <address> content model had legacy reasons
  198. # [16:12] <annevk> doesn't seem like it has in IE7 and O9
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  200. # [16:23] <zcorpan> also div, address, dl, center...probably others too
  201. # [16:23] <zcorpan> blockquote
  202. # [16:24] <zcorpan> h1-h6
  203. # [16:26] <zcorpan> hr, li, menu, pre, fieldset, form
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  205. # [16:27] <zcorpan> annevk: address does allow tables in address though
  206. # [16:27] <zcorpan> er
  207. # [16:27] <zcorpan> html5
  208. # [16:27] <annevk> sure
  209. # [16:27] <annevk> it would be silly otherwise
  210. # [16:28] <zcorpan> seems to be that Ben Boyle thought it didn't
  211. # [16:29] <annevk> oh, allowing it in the parser I meant
  212. # [16:29] * annevk didn't check conformance
  213. # [16:31] <Philip`> Aha, I was wondering if Firefox treated anything else the same as <unknown> in terms of implying end tags, but couldn't think of any, but it looks like <address> is one
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  216. # [16:34] <zcorpan> we should preserve wordings that makes readers smile! :)
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  218. # [16:41] <zcorpan> hmm, ie doesn't support coords=default
  219. # [16:42] <annevk> yeah, known
  220. # [16:43] <annevk> I think IE parsing was not reverse engineered fully or something
  221. # [16:44] <zcorpan> parsing of what?
  222. # [16:45] <zcorpan> s/coords/shape/
  223. # [16:46] <annevk> coords, I believe it was not really a problem that IE didn't do shape=default
  224. # [16:47] <zcorpan> ok
  225. # [16:47] * zcorpan needs to play more with image maps
  226. # [16:47] <annevk> I'd spend time on stuff that causes actual problems :)
  227. # [16:47] <zcorpan> such as
  228. # [16:48] <annevk> good question
  229. # [16:48] <zcorpan> seems we apply the areas in the wrong order
  230. # [16:48] <annevk> guess most of those sections are sort of covered, just awaiting implementation experience
  231. # [16:48] <zcorpan> yeah
  232. # [16:48] <zcorpan> i could write test cases for video
  233. # [16:49] <zcorpan> i've avoided that section so far
  234. # [16:50] <annevk> parsing of <meta http-equiv=refresh> ? :)
  235. # [16:53] <zcorpan> http://simon.html5.org/test/html/semantics/area/001.xht
  236. # [16:53] <zcorpan> yeah
  237. # [16:53] <zcorpan> or actually
  238. # [16:53] <zcorpan> http-equiv in general
  239. # [16:53] <zcorpan> it is implemented differently from what html5 says i think
  240. # [16:53] <zcorpan> browsers really treat the values as if they were http headers
  241. # [16:54] <zcorpan> and Refresh is supported as a real header
  242. # [16:54] <annevk> in some browsers, yes
  243. # [16:54] <annevk> the question is whether they can drop such support
  244. # [16:54] <zcorpan> in which browsers is that not so?
  245. # [16:55] <annevk> I thought Refresh was only supported by Gecko, actually
  246. # [16:55] <zcorpan> oh no
  247. # [16:55] <zcorpan> last time i checked i didn't find any browser not supporting it
  248. # [16:55] <zcorpan> but i might have done something wrong by then
  249. # [16:55] <annevk> interesting
  250. # [16:56] * Philip` sees <meta http-equiv> used on more pages than <table>, but doesn't have any way to determine the attribute's values :-(
  251. # [16:57] * zcorpan assumes content-type and content-language are the 2 top
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  256. # [17:50] <krijnh> Perhaps set-cookie
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  258. # [17:56] <met_> hsivonen: http://about.validator.nu/author/ from the footer gives 404
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  311. # [22:22] <gsnedders> is there any content that relies on browsers treating HTTP headers ending in "CRLF as the value including the quote?
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  317. # [22:33] <gsnedders> this is something browsers do unusually (for HTTP) consistently
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  327. # [23:53] <Hixie> here's an example of a page that blatently shouldn't validate: http://gallery.mac.com/emily_parker#100335&bgcolor=black
  328. # [23:54] <Hixie> and not for the reasons the validator currently gives
  329. # [23:54] <Hixie> disable stylesheets on that page to see what i mean
  330. # [23:55] <Hixie> hsivonen: http://html5.validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fgallery.mac.com%2Femily_parker%23100335%26bgcolor%3Dblack ?
  331. # [23:57] <gavin_> wow
  332. # [23:58] <Hixie> hsivonen: btw i've added a form to validator.whatwg.org so that people can submit URIs from there instead of having one more page to go through
  333. # [23:58] <Hixie> hsivonen: let me know if that's a problem
  334. # Session Close: Wed Aug 08 00:00:00 2007

The end :)