/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-08-29 / end

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  77. # [05:05] <markp> jgraham: you around?
  78. # [05:05] <markp> or any other html5lib hackers?
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  147. # [15:22] <virtuelv> is anyone going to be offended if I refer to the selectors API naming debate as a bikeshed problem?
  148. # [15:27] <zcorpan> not me
  149. # [15:27] <zcorpan> and i participated in it :(
  150. # [15:28] * zcorpan will stay away from naming debates in the future
  151. # [15:28] <Dashiva> It was a bikeshed problem where all the colors were ugly shades of purple and beige
  152. # [15:30] <virtuelv> fwiw, http://programming.reddit.com/info/2jrrg/comments
  153. # [15:35] <zcorpan> accessing radiobuttons with the [[Get]] method is funny -- if there's only one control that matches, it returns it directly, but if there are more it returns a nodelist
  154. # [15:35] <zcorpan> document.forms[0]["foo"]
  155. # [15:36] <zcorpan> and undefined if 0 match
  156. # [15:44] <Dashiva> Same with checkboxes
  157. # [15:45] <zcorpan> yeah
  158. # [15:50] <Dashiva> And we should do our best to prevent the same behavior from happening to responsebodies in multipart xhr responses :)
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  163. # [17:07] <gsnedders> is there anyway to check WF2 support through JS?
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  165. # [17:11] <gsnedders> document.implementation.hasFeature('WebForms', '2.0')?
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  167. # [17:24] <krijnh> gsnedders: Yeah, that returns true in Opera
  168. # [17:26] <zcorpan> gsnedders: it's probably safer to check specific methods etc before using them
  169. # [17:26] <gsnedders> zcorpan: need some way to check if |input|@type=date has a native controller before falling back to a JavaScript one
  170. # [17:27] <gsnedders> (which will just be a text field on something with neither WF2 or JS)
  171. # [17:27] <zcorpan> .type == "date" ?
  172. # [17:27] <gsnedders> does that work?
  173. # [17:27] <zcorpan> think so
  174. # [17:27] <gsnedders> does that set itself to "text" in browsers that don't support it?
  175. # [17:28] <zcorpan> exactly
  176. # [17:28] <zcorpan> so you know if it's not supported
  177. # [17:28] <zcorpan> if (input.type != "date") { // not supported
  178. # [17:28] <gsnedders> falls back in Saf at least
  179. # [17:30] <Dashiva> falls back in ie and ff too
  180. # [17:30] <Dashiva> ff2, ie7
  181. # [17:30] <zcorpan> there you go
  182. # [17:31] <gsnedders> zcorpan: thanks
  183. # [17:31] <zcorpan> welcome :)
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  205. # [19:22] <Lachy> http://ajaxian.com/archives/selectors-api-method-names-selectelement-and-selectallelements
  206. # [19:22] <Lachy> http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2007/08/names/
  207. # [19:22] <Lachy> http://lachy.id.au/log/2007/06/naming-debate
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  209. # [19:25] <Lachy> oops, wrong link. http://lachy.id.au/log/2007/08/naming-debate-revisited
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  222. # [20:13] <gsnedders> kingryan: what did you do regarding text/plain sniffing?
  223. # [20:13] <kingryan> gsnedders: what do you mean?
  224. # [20:14] <gsnedders> kingryan: in your implementation of feed/html, did you just count every text/plain document as such, and not do what browsers do, and sniff it?
  225. # [20:14] <kingryan> the sniffing impl I've added to html5lib/ruby isn't actually integrated w/ the rest of the parser
  226. # [20:15] <kingryan> in other words, I haven't implemented the part of the decision tree that switches on content-type
  227. # [20:16] <kingryan> ... if that answers your question, gsnedders
  228. # [20:16] <gsnedders> ya
  229. # [20:16] <kingryan> I've also implemented it at technorati, where we don't really care about text/plain
  230. # [20:16] <kingryan> we only really care wether something is a feed or html
  231. # [20:16] <kingryan> or other
  232. # [20:17] <gsnedders> kingryan: but what if text/plain _is_ a feed or HTML?
  233. # [20:17] <kingryan> I wasn't clear... we don't care if people *say* its text/plain
  234. # [20:17] <gsnedders> you just sniff it regardless of the claim?
  235. # [20:18] <kingryan> yup
  236. # [20:19] <kingryan> but we're only indexing URLs that either 1) people pinged us with or 2) were discovered through link[@rel=~alternate]
  237. # [20:21] <kingryan> so, it works well enough for us
  238. # [20:21] <gsnedders> the feed/html algorithm currently concludes "otherwise return text/html". How do you tell apart HTML from the rest?
  239. # [20:22] <kingryan> because of where it sits in the decision tree, it doesn't matter
  240. # [20:22] * markp goes off to start a text/plain blog
  241. # [20:22] <kingryan> if someone says "this is a feed", but its not, we give up on processing it
  242. # [20:22] <markp> does that happen a lot?
  243. # [20:22] <kingryan> the common case is an http 500 which has html
  244. # [20:23] <markp> heh
  245. # [20:23] <kingryan> or 503
  246. # [20:23] <gsnedders> 503?
  247. # [20:23] <kingryan> 503 = "temporarily unavailable"
  248. # [20:23] <markp> http error 503: my web hosting sucks
  249. # [20:23] <gsnedders> markp: I was wondering whether I'd get such a response from you :)
  250. # [20:23] <kingryan> the more common case is that someone says their feed is rss , but its really atom
  251. # [20:24] <gsnedders> I don't even differentiate between the two. Just check if we have a feed or not.
  252. # [20:24] <markp> kingryan: do you use feedparser to determine feed version?
  253. # [20:25] <markp> just curious
  254. # [20:27] <kingryan> markp: our old spider uses UFP, but is slowly being replaced by one written in ruby
  255. # [20:28] <kingryan> for which the parsing is mostly based on html5lib
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  257. # [20:41] * Philip` tries running the html5lib validator on his documentation examples
  258. # [20:42] <Philip`> http://james.html5.org/cgi-bin/parsetree/parsetree.py?source=%3C%21DOCTYPE+HTML%3E%0D%0A%3Ctitle%3E%3Cb%3E+%26amp%3B+%3Ci%3E%3C%2Ftitle%3E - how come that's sensible there, but gives different results in SVN html5lib?
  259. # [20:43] * Quits: dev0_ (i=Tobias@unaffiliated/icefox0) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  260. # [20:48] <zcorpan> Philip`: what does the latter give?
  261. # [20:49] <zcorpan> shouldn't the innerHTML view escape < and > in title, btw?
  262. # [20:49] <zcorpan> and &
  263. # [20:50] <Philip`> >>> print p.parse('<!doctype html><title><b> &amp; <i></title>').printTree()
  264. # [20:50] <Philip`> #document
  265. # [20:50] <Philip`> | <!DOCTYPE html>
  266. # [20:51] <Philip`> | <html>
  267. # [20:51] <Philip`> | <head>
  268. # [20:51] <Philip`> | <title>
  269. # [20:51] <Philip`> | <body>
  270. # [20:51] <Philip`> | <b>
  271. # [20:51] <Philip`> | " & "
  272. # [20:51] <Philip`> | <i>
  273. # [20:51] <zcorpan> aha.
  274. # [20:52] <zcorpan> regression then
  275. # [20:53] <Philip`> Looks like <title> is meant to be parsed as RCDATA
  276. # [20:54] <zcorpan> yes
  277. # [22:58] * Disconnected
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  280. # [22:58] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  281. # [22:58] * Set by Hixie on Tue Apr 03 04:10:22
  282. # [22:58] <jgraham> Oh attribute values
  283. # [22:58] <jgraham> I didn't do those
  284. # [22:58] <zcorpan> right
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  287. # [23:00] <jgraham> That looks a bit more promising
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  290. # [23:02] <zcorpan> jgraham: <plaintext> is also a cdata element
  291. # [23:02] <zcorpan> for this purpose anyway
  292. # [23:03] <zcorpan> otherwise looks right
  293. # [23:04] <zcorpan> hmm, http://james.html5.org/cgi-bin/parsetree/parsetree.py?source=%3Cnoscript%3E doesn't look like it's parsed correctly (or there's a bug in the spec)
  294. # [23:04] <Philip`> markp: Oh, I'm happy to slack - I just wanted to see if it worked already, and only found that one problem, so I'm content to wait until it works even better in the future ;-)
  295. # [23:08] <zcorpan> "<noscript>" is supposed to be parsed into <html><head><noscript></noscript></head><body></body></html> if i read the spec right
  296. # [23:09] <jgraham> zcorpan: That looks more plausible
  297. # [23:10] * jgraham is wondering why html5lib has constants named rcdataElements and cdataElements that seem to be almost exactly back to front
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  304. # [23:39] <jgraham> zcorpan: Where should the </noscript> be generated in the spec?
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  306. # [23:41] <zcorpan> jgraham: i don't understand the question
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  310. # [23:42] <zcorpan> jgraham: you mean as an implied token in the tree construction?
  311. # [23:42] <jgraham> Yeah
  312. # [23:42] <zcorpan> they aren't
  313. # [23:43] <zcorpan> the cdata parsing algorithm just looks until it finds a token that's not a character token
  314. # [23:43] <zcorpan> if that's the end tag it's ignored
  315. # [23:43] <zcorpan> otherwise you carry on
  316. # [23:43] <zcorpan> so say the tokens are: start tag "noscript", character "X", end-of-file
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  318. # [23:44] <jgraham> Oh, I see
  319. # [23:44] <jgraham> We're mistakenly inserting the token for <noscript> into the stack of open elements
  320. # [23:44] <zcorpan> when you get to the end-of-file it's a parse error and you get back to "in head"
  321. # [23:45] <zcorpan> seems so
  322. # [23:46] * moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju
  323. # [23:47] <zcorpan> it should get the same treatment as <style> i think
  324. # [23:47] <zcorpan> basically
  325. # [23:48] <zcorpan> or exactly :)
  326. # [23:49] <zcorpan> if scripting is enabled
  327. # [23:49] <jgraham> zcorpan: I think we get <style> wrong too
  328. # [23:49] <zcorpan> http://james.html5.org/cgi-bin/parsetree/parsetree.py?source=%3Cstyle%3E
  329. # [23:49] <jgraham> Eh, that doesn't look like it should work
  330. # [23:58] * moeffju is now known as moeffju[afk]
  331. # [23:59] <jgraham> zcorpan: OK I have a fix but I think this code needs a little more love (tomorrow :) )
  332. # Session Close: Thu Aug 30 00:00:00 2007

The end :)