/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-09-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Sep 02 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  21. # [04:01] <tibberio> hi
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  23. # [04:21] <Lachy_> hi tibberio
  24. # [04:50] <tibberio> hi Lachy_, I'm asleep, night
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  58. # [13:50] <Lachy> I implemented the text/html content sniffing algorithm in JavaScript http://html5.lachy.id.au/content-sniffing/
  59. # [13:50] <Lachy> also checked it into google code
  60. # [13:52] <virtuelv_> Lachy: should the [invalid] sequence '<??>' really be text/html?
  61. # [13:53] <Lachy> that's what the algorithm says
  62. # [13:53] <Lachy> in the spec
  63. # [13:53] <Lachy> I wondered about that too, but I figured it would be better to implement exactly what the spec says and then provide feedback about it
  64. # [13:54] <Lachy> wait, why wouldn't <??> be text/html?
  65. # [13:55] <Lachy> if anything, it should always be text/html, since it's not well formed XML and thus can't be a feed
  66. # [13:55] <Lachy> i.e. <??><feed> probably shouldn't be Atom
  67. # [14:13] <zcorpan> Lachy: that's a good environment to run testcases
  68. # [14:13] <zcorpan> for browsers
  69. # [14:13] <Lachy> yep
  70. # [14:14] <Lachy> it would probably be a good idea to integrate it into the live dom viewer later
  71. # [14:14] <zcorpan> similar to http://html5.org/parsing-tests/testrunner.htm and http://simon.html5.org/test/html/serializing/001.htm
  72. # [14:15] <zcorpan> though you could use json as the format for the tests
  73. # [14:16] <Lachy> right, that shouldn't be too hard to do
  74. # [14:16] <zcorpan> though i wonder if you have to have a server involved to actually test what browsers do
  75. # [14:17] <zcorpan> i.e. the relevant sniffing only occurs for resources served over the wire
  76. # [14:17] <Lachy> yeah, but that's not too hard to do
  77. # [14:17] <zcorpan> true
  78. # [14:18] <Lachy> I tried a few simple test cases with data: URIs and Firefox didn't sniff them
  79. # [14:18] <zcorpan> right, data: are never sniffed
  80. # [14:18] <zcorpan> afaik
  81. # [14:19] <Lachy> so we'd probably need to load from the server into an iframe or something
  82. # [14:19] <zcorpan> exactly
  83. # [14:19] <zcorpan> slightly annoying but certainly doable :)
  84. # [14:20] <Lachy> I think I have a PHP script somewhere that will echo whatever data you pass, using whatever MIME specified,
  85. # [14:20] <zcorpan> we could perhaps also use Philip`'s appoach with creating tests
  86. # [14:21] <zcorpan> hmm
  87. # [14:21] <zcorpan> might be better to just find all the edge cases
  88. # [14:26] <Philip`> http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/dom-viewer/reflect.cgi?%3Cscript%3Ealert('Hello%20world')%3C/script%3E echoes stuff but it's probably not so useful since it always does text/html
  89. # [14:27] <Philip`> (There's a reflect-xhtml.cgi for XHTML)
  90. # [14:27] <Lachy> I've got one that does the same thing, though I'm going to make it check for a content-type parameter in the query string and use that
  91. # [14:29] <Philip`> http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/dom-viewer/reflect.c - I don't really fancy modifying that to actually parse the query string at all, so it's probably more sensible to use PHP :-)
  92. # [14:29] <Lachy> the only problem with something like that is that it creates a huge security risk
  93. # [14:29] <virtuelv_> Lachy: the spec doesn't define text/plain when it lacks angle brackets?
  94. # [14:29] <Lachy> virtuelv, no, why would it?
  95. # [14:30] * virtuelv_ goes back and reads the proposal again
  96. # [14:30] <Lachy> virtuelv_, it's the algorithm that sniffs content delivered as text/html to see if it's a feed. If it's not a known feed format, it's text/html
  97. # [14:30] <Lachy> seel http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/section-content-type-sniffing.html#content-type3
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  103. # [14:46] <Lachy> Philip`, zcorpan, http://html5.lachy.id.au/output
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  106. # [14:49] <zcorpan> Lachy: you need to do stipslashes()
  107. # [14:50] <Lachy> oh crap, that should be off by default on my server.
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  109. # [14:51] <Lachy> hmm. I'll have to add stripslashes for now, since I can't remember how to do it in .htaccess or php.ini or whatever it is
  110. # [14:51] <zcorpan> i can't get "<rss>" to be echoed
  111. # [14:52] <zcorpan> in firefox
  112. # [14:53] <zcorpan> and safari
  113. # [14:54] <zcorpan> no wait it works in safari
  114. # [14:55] <zcorpan> Lachy: you also need an id on the <datalist> :)
  115. # [14:55] <Lachy> oops :-)
  116. # [14:59] <Lachy> where can I find an Atom test file?
  117. # [15:00] <zcorpan> in the rfc :)
  118. # [15:00] <Lachy> never mind, found one
  119. # [15:01] <zcorpan> hmm, ie doesn't add attributes to the root node from misplaced <html> tags
  120. # [15:01] <Lachy> it appears that Firefox will only sniff as the result of a GET request, not a POST
  121. # [15:04] <Lachy> Firefox needs to see the Atom xmlns and there needs to be at least a title and link element in it for it to be sniffed as a feed.
  122. # [15:04] <Lachy> http://html5.lachy.id.au/output?type=text%2Fhtml&data=%3Cfeed+xmlns%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2005%2FAtom%22%3E%0D%0A++%3Ctitle%3EExample+Feed%3C%2Ftitle%3E%0D%0A++%3Clink+href%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fexample.org%2F%22%2F%3E%0D%0A%3C%2Ffeed%3E%0D%0A
  123. # [15:06] <zcorpan> doesn't opera sniff for feeds?
  124. # [15:06] <Lachy> it doesn't appear to
  125. # [15:06] <Lachy> maybe it needs more content in it
  126. # [15:07] <Lachy> nope, it doesn't (at least not for Atom)
  127. # [15:08] <zcorpan> not for rss 2.0 either
  128. # [15:09] <Lachy> hmm. How do I turn off AddDefaultCharset for just that one file?
  129. # [15:10] <Lachy> I've tried putting it in a <Files> directive, but it doesn't seem to to work
  130. # [15:11] <zcorpan> AddDefaultCharset Off in the same folder should work (for all files in that folder)
  131. # [15:11] <Lachy> yeah, but it's in the root directory, so I don't want it to do that
  132. # [15:12] <zcorpan> dunno
  133. # [15:12] <zcorpan> perhaps opera only does sniffing for following <link>s
  134. # [15:13] <Lachy> oh well, I'll just turn it off for everything now and fix it later
  135. # [15:14] <Lachy> maybe, try it
  136. # [15:14] <zcorpan> but it's a php file, and AddDefaultCharset doesn't apply to php
  137. # [15:14] <zcorpan> php sends its own headers
  138. # [15:15] <Lachy> http://html5.lachy.id.au/output?type=text%2Fhtml&data=%3Clink+rel%3D%22alternate%22+type%3D%22application%2Fatom%2Bxml%22+href%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fhtml5.lachy.id.au%2Foutput%3Ftype%3Dtext%252Fhtml%26data%3D%253Cfeed%2Bxmlns%253D%2522http%253A%252F%252Fwww.w3.org%252F2005%252FAtom%2522%253E%250D%250A%2B%2B%253Ctitle%253EExample%2BFeed%253C%252Ftitle%253E%250D%250A%2B%2B%253Clink%2Bhref%253D%2522http%
  139. # [15:15] <Lachy> 253A%252F%252Fexample.org%252F%2522%252F%253E%250D%250A%253C%252Ffeed%253E%250D%250A%22%3E%0D%0A%3Cp%3ETest
  140. # [15:15] <Lachy> AddDefaultCharset applies based on the MIME type I think
  141. # [15:16] <Lachy> so all text/* responses get ; charset=...
  142. # [15:16] <zcorpan> yeah but php will still send its own headers
  143. # [15:16] <zcorpan> php overrides apache
  144. # [15:17] <Lachy> indeed, but it's not. I'm using headers("Content-Type: $type"); in the php, so it should send exactly what's in the text box, but it doesn't
  145. # [15:17] <zcorpan> it does afaict
  146. # [15:18] <Lachy> yeah, it does now, cause I turned off AddDefaultCharset already
  147. # [15:18] <Lachy> but if I turn it on again, it won't
  148. # [15:19] <zcorpan> can you turn it on again, please?
  149. # [15:20] <Lachy> done
  150. # [15:20] <zcorpan> oh, indeed. that's not how my server behaves though
  151. # [15:21] <zcorpan> perhaps a different version of php or different settings
  152. # [15:21] <Lachy> which version of Apache does your server run?
  153. # [15:21] <zcorpan> 1.3 iirc
  154. # [15:21] <Lachy> I'm using PHP 5, Apache 1.3 I think
  155. # [15:21] <zcorpan> php 4
  156. # [15:21] <zcorpan> ok, so then php 5 pays attention to apache settings
  157. # [15:21] <Lachy> I'll try it with PHP4...
  158. # [15:23] <zcorpan> hmm, perhaps i was wrong
  159. # [15:24] <Lachy> nope, still does it
  160. # [15:24] <Lachy> I've turn default charset off again
  161. # [15:38] <Lachy> zcorpan, for the HTML status updating, I think it would be easiest if we just use HTTP basic authentication and using a .htpasswd file, which grants access to the confirmation script for Hixie (or whoever else is authorised)
  162. # [15:40] <zcorpan> Lachy: ok
  163. # [15:41] <Lachy> we just need to write the script that commits the changes to the DB, and then make a few minor changes to the existing update script and we're done
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  166. # [16:01] <zcorpan> Lachy: great
  167. # [16:04] <gsnedders> Lachy: it's all the magic_quotes settings
  168. # [16:04] <Lachy> gsnedders, thanks, I do have the instructions for it written down somewhere. I just have to find them and set it up
  169. # [16:05] <gsnedders> http://uk2.php.net/magic_quotes
  170. # [16:05] <gsnedders> (a "feature" that's gone in PHP6)
  171. # [16:06] <hsivonen> interpreter/compiler-level settings that change programming language semantics suck big time
  172. # [16:07] <Lachy> yeah, PHP already sucks and fixing PHP by turning off silly "features" just needs to be done
  173. # [16:11] <gsnedders> according to the PHP devs, <span title="this > that"> is invalid HTML.
  174. # [16:12] <gsnedders> the only way I could get them to fix the bug in strip_tags() which claims to only work with valid HTML anyway was to quote both HTML5, HTML 4.01, and SGML.
  175. # [16:14] <Lachy> PHP devs often don't know HTML very well at all
  176. # [16:14] <Lachy> try to get them to fix the ampersand bug, for instance!
  177. # [16:15] <Lachy> the one where they generate and output "...&PHPSESSID=..." instead of using &amp;
  178. # [16:16] <Dashiva> Or just get them to handle multiple selects/checkboxes without hacking the names
  179. # [16:17] <Lachy> yeah, that too
  180. # [16:17] <Dashiva> Although that's not html-specific, they mangle it the same way with parsing ini files
  181. # [16:17] <gsnedders> Lachy: oh, that's a config option. duh :P
  182. # [16:18] <Lachy> gsnedders, I know, but it should be default!
  183. # [16:18] <gsnedders> but backwards compatibility!11!!!!elevnty!
  184. # [16:18] <Lachy> they should have fixed it for PHP5, which isn't backwards compatible anyway
  185. # [16:18] <Lachy> or even PHP6
  186. # [16:18] <gsnedders> yes, they're backwards compatible!11!!1!
  187. # [16:18] <gsnedders> It's stupid.
  188. # [16:19] <gsnedders> They refuse to fix things in the name of BC, yet totally break it anyway.
  189. # [16:19] <Lachy> yeah, I know. I should just learn python and how to get it running on my server
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  191. # [16:21] <gsnedders> yeah, I've been meaning to learn python too.
  192. # [16:22] <gsnedders> far more general use, too
  193. # [16:31] <Philip`> Python's going to break backward compatibility too, but at least they're intending to fix lots of small mistakes at the same time, which seems good as long as you only do it once a decade
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  198. # [16:48] <Lachy> woo hoo! My first python script running on my server :-) http://lachy.id.au/temp/test
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  248. # [22:53] * Quits: grimboy (n=grimboy@85.211.235.124) (Success)
  249. # [23:08] * Quits: dev0_ (i=Tobias@unaffiliated/icefox0) ("dev0_ has no reason")
  250. # [23:08] * Quits: hendry (n=hendry@nox.vm.bytemark.co.uk) ("sleep")
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  255. # Session Close: Mon Sep 03 00:00:00 2007

The end :)