/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-09-24 / end

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  70. #
  71. # Session Start: Mon Sep 24 20:00:14 2007
  72. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  73. # [20:00] * Now talking in #whatwg
  74. # [20:00] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  75. # [20:00] * Set by Hixie on Tue Apr 03 04:10:22
  76. # [20:00] <krijnh> Test
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  87. # [20:18] <zcorpan> hsivonen: hmm, perhaps a bit too light. something in between. :) also, try making the second and third paragraph non-bold, i think that makes it easier to scan the errors
  88. # [20:20] <hsivonen> zcorpan: is the color now better?
  89. # [20:20] <hsivonen> zcorpan: I'm not sure what you want made non-bold
  90. # [20:20] <zcorpan> hsivonen: yes, the color is good
  91. # [20:20] <hsivonen> zcorpan: do you mean second and third para in each li?
  92. # [20:20] <zcorpan> At line 1, column 2
  93. # [20:20] <zcorpan> <?xml v
  94. # [20:20] <zcorpan> yes
  95. # [20:20] <zcorpan> including the <b>
  96. # [20:21] <hsivonen> zcorpan: hmm. the location para is already non-bold
  97. # [20:21] <hsivonen> zcorpan: do you want the highlighted tag to be non-bold?
  98. # [20:21] <zcorpan> oh?
  99. # [20:22] <hsivonen> zcorpan: is your CSS2 UI font something that always looks bold?
  100. # [20:22] <zcorpan> yeah, could be
  101. # [20:22] <hsivonen> the whole page is font: caption;
  102. # [20:23] <zcorpan> perhaps explicitly say that the first paragraph should be bold and the others font-weight:normal?
  103. # [20:23] <hsivonen> zcorpan: hmm. I think I'd rather conclude that CSS2 UI fonts were a nice idea but the implementation sucks
  104. # [20:23] <hsivonen> and do font: sans-serif instead
  105. # [20:24] <hsivonen> zcorpan: which platform/browser are you using?
  106. # [20:24] <zcorpan> opera, win xp (classic theme)
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  108. # [20:26] <hsivonen> I guess I should do research about OS X, XP and Ubuntu and figure out named fonts myself considering that CSS2 UI fonts aren't good enough :-(
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  110. # [20:27] <zcorpan> isn't sans-serif good, then?
  111. # [20:29] <hsivonen> not as good as what I get on OS X with font: caption now
  112. # [20:29] <hsivonen> http://hsivonen.iki.fi/screen/validator-nu.png
  113. # [20:29] <hsivonen> that's what I see
  114. # [20:32] <zcorpan> http://simon.html5.org/temp/validator-nu.png
  115. # [20:32] <hsivonen> eww.
  116. # [20:32] <hsivonen> that need fixing
  117. # [20:33] <hsivonen> zcorpan: thanks
  118. # [20:33] <zcorpan> np :)
  119. # [20:35] <hsivonen> now the form is still caption but the rest is sans-serif
  120. # [20:37] <zcorpan> http://simon.html5.org/temp/validator-nu-2.png
  121. # [20:38] <hsivonen> looks better to me except now there's a size disparity
  122. # [20:39] <hsivonen> I don't know how to manage the font-size property on body relative to the CSS2 UI font on form
  123. # [20:40] <hsivonen> hmm.
  124. # [20:41] <hsivonen> ok. found a fix that works in Firefox trunk and Kestrel but not in Firefox 2
  125. # [20:44] <zcorpan> hsivonen: i think it looks better with non-bold for the highlighted part, though that might just be because of my choice of monospace font :)
  126. # [20:44] <hsivonen> I like the bold with the highlight
  127. # [20:45] <zcorpan> ok
  128. # [20:45] <hsivonen> with my fonts, that is :-)
  129. # [20:46] <zcorpan> now everything's bold for me again, fwiw
  130. # [20:46] <hsivonen> hmm. has there been a CSS2.1 decision or something? Safari trunk agrees with Kestrel and Firefox 3. but Safari 2 agrees with Firefox 2
  131. # [20:46] <hsivonen> on size inheritance
  132. # [20:47] <hsivonen> zcorpan: do you know why that happens?
  133. # [20:47] <zcorpan> when using ui fonts?
  134. # [20:47] <hsivonen> but shouldn't font-family on body cancel the UI font from html?
  135. # [20:48] <zcorpan> not sure how that's defined
  136. # [20:48] <zcorpan> ui fonts might imply font-size and weight etc
  137. # [20:48] <zcorpan> and setting font-family probably doesn't undo it
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  139. # [20:50] <hsivonen> hmm. too hard
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  145. # [21:20] <kingryan> has anyone but me looked at markp's validator implemenation in html5lib?
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  166. # [22:51] <hsivonen> CSS question: what's the preferred way of making sure inline elements with no content are as tall as inline elements containing an NO-BREAK SPACE?
  167. # [22:52] <Hixie> only use standards-compliant UAs
  168. # [22:53] <Hixie> and it should Just Happen
  169. # [22:53] <hsivonen> Hixie: looks like Firefox trunk isn't compliant enough
  170. # [22:53] <Hixie> i don't think any browsers are
  171. # [22:53] <Hixie> oh there's an exception; the block has to have content
  172. # [22:54] <Hixie> <p><span></span></p> is still allowed to be zero-height
  173. # [22:54] <hsivonen> WebKit trunk is!
  174. # [22:54] <hsivonen> Hixie: I want <li><code></code></li> to look like an empty line
  175. # [22:56] <hsivonen> given the current state of Gecko, are there practical workarounds on the CSS level?
  176. # [22:57] <Hixie> ah there you are screwed
  177. # [22:57] <Hixie> you can use min-height on hte li
  178. # [22:57] <Hixie> or include a zwnbsp
  179. # [22:57] <hsivonen> tried it already. no good
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  182. # [22:57] <Hixie> min-height should work
  183. # [22:57] <hsivonen> should, but doesn't :-(
  184. # [22:58] <hsivonen> the list markers are still off
  185. # [22:58] <Hixie> ah yes the list markers will only work if you have actual content in there
  186. # [22:58] <tantek> is that because they have nothing to align their baseline to?
  187. # [22:58] <Hixie> since they line up with the first line box
  188. # [22:59] <tantek> yes, you need at least a text character of some sort in there to trigger font metrics resolution, the establishment of a baseline, and thus something that the list marker can be placed relative to
  189. # [23:00] <hsivonen> good old &nbsp; it is, I guess
  190. # [23:01] <hsivonen> I hope people don't copy and paste
  191. # [23:01] <hsivonen> hmm. I wonder if space with white-space: pre-wrap works...
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  193. # [23:01] <tantek> there may be something in CSS3-Text that allows you to set an explicit baseline on a block. That plus an explicit line-height should theoretically do the trick. But not sure if there are any browsers that support that.
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  195. # [23:03] <hsivonen> tantek: ok. perhaps in the future
  196. # [23:05] <hsivonen> space plus pre-wrap not enough...
  197. # [23:07] <hsivonen> nbsp works
  198. # [23:07] <hsivonen> thanks
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The end :)