/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-10-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Oct 24 00:00:01 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  9. # [01:15] <Hixie> what's UCT if it's not UTC?
  10. # [01:20] <jacobolus> wikipedia has no ideas other than university of cape town
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  90. # [07:16] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  91. # [07:16] * Set by Hixie on Tue Apr 03 04:10:22
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  105. # [09:16] <Hixie> well crap
  106. # [09:16] <Hixie> good api design includes keeping arguments in consistent positions
  107. # [09:16] <Hixie> but i have a case where i can't do that
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  109. # [09:18] <Hixie> A(x), B(y), C(x, z)... do I do D(y, x), or D(x, y) ?
  110. # [09:19] <Hixie> y is the more useful argument...
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  117. # [09:56] <jruderman> for a long time i had to look up the argument order for insertBefore every time i used it
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  119. # [09:57] <jruderman> Hixie: make all the functions take all three arguments. problem solved!
  120. # [09:58] <Hixie> actually no, i considered that, and making B() take x makes my like even more complicated
  121. # [10:03] <Hixie> hmm
  122. # [10:03] <Hixie> so if i have statement-level error reporting and transaction-level error reporting
  123. # [10:03] <Hixie> if the statement-level error callback is omitted, clearly i should call the transaction-level error reporting callback instead
  124. # [10:04] <Hixie> but what if both are provided, and the statement-level error callback function doesn't throw an exception, but doesn't indicate that it handled the error?
  125. # [10:04] <Hixie> (the statement-level error callback can indicate that the transaction isn't to be rolled back -- i.e. that it handled the error -- by returning false)
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  128. # [10:11] <othermaciej> insertBefore is hella confusing
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  131. # [10:19] <jruderman> sometimes i wish it was prev.insertBefore(n) rather than parent.insertBefore(n, prev)
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  133. # [10:20] <Hixie> ok i have revamped the database api
  134. # [10:29] <Hixie> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/section-sql.html#sql
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  161. # [16:16] <hsivonen> I want to extract spec URIs for each HTML5 element and attribute. should I do pattern matching against the TOC or is there a better way?
  162. # [16:17] <hsivonen> did someone already do this? zcorpan perhaps?
  163. # [16:17] <hsivonen> or was it Philip`?
  164. # [16:20] <Dashiva> I think Philip`
  165. # [16:21] <zcorpan> for http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/ref.html
  166. # [16:23] <hsivonen> zcorpan: thanks
  167. # [16:23] <hsivonen> Philip`: is the doc manually authored or is the data extracted from the spec programmatically?
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  169. # [16:25] <zcorpan> iirc, the elements, attributes and dom interfaces, and content models are extracted from the spec, and the text is written manually... see http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/ref/
  170. # [16:27] <Philip`> All the data comes from a YAML file, and that file is written manually, except I copied-and-pasted an automatically-extracted not-quite-complete list of elements/attributes from the spec into that file
  171. # [16:28] <hsivonen> Philip`: ok. thanks
  172. # [16:28] <hsivonen> I think I'm going to try to extract what I want programmatically
  173. # [16:30] <Philip`> I can't find the program I used to automatically extract the spec definitions, but it was basically just some regexps
  174. # [16:30] <hsivonen> hmm. I think I'm going to use the Validator.nu HTML parser plus a SAX handler
  175. # [16:30] <Philip`> (hence being not-quite-complete, since the spec has a few attributes described in an unusual format)
  176. # [16:32] <Philip`> (I also only wanted the names, not ids for linking to the spec)
  177. # [16:33] <hsivonen> I want to have mapping so that
  178. # [16:33] <Philip`> (Incidentally, linking sounds somewhat dangerous when the ids are unstable (which they are))
  179. # [16:33] <hsivonen> 1) when I have a ns,localName pair, I can get
  180. # [16:33] <hsivonen> a) Spec URI with fragment id
  181. # [16:34] <hsivonen> b) SAX Tree fragment with English description of allowed context
  182. # [16:34] <hsivonen> c) SAX Tree fragment with English description of allowed content model
  183. # [16:34] <hsivonen> d) SAX Tree fragment listing element-specific attributes
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  185. # [16:35] <hsivonen> 2) when I have ns,localName pair for element and another for attribute,
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  187. # [16:35] <hsivonen> a) a SAX Tree fragment with English description of the attribute
  188. # [16:36] <hsivonen> hmm. the last one seems hard to extract programmatically
  189. # [16:38] <Philip`> For http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/ref/ref.html I was just writing descriptions and allowed-content-model manually, since it doesn't seem feasible to get human-readable output any other way
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  191. # [16:39] <hsivonen> Philip`: why not? Hixie has written the allowed content model in a uniform <dl> on each element definition?
  192. # [16:42] <Philip`> Hmm, I suppose it wouldn't be too bad for content models
  193. # [16:43] <Philip`> although something like "Content model: When used in an element whose content model is only strictly inline-level content: only significant strictly inline-level content, but there must be no interactive descendants. Otherwise: any significant inline-level content, but there must be no interactive descendants." doesn't seem particularly reader-friendly and my brain turns off after the first sentence :-)
  194. # [16:44] <hsivonen> Philip`: if it is reader-unfriendly, it is better to fix it upstream in the spec than only in a validator UI
  195. # [16:47] <Philip`> The spec has a very different audience to a validator, and different again to a reference guide, so optimising for readers in one audience is likely to involve tradeoffs against others
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  198. # [16:50] <hsivonen> hmm. sometimes the following the fragment id link for an attribute gives useful text
  199. # [16:50] <hsivonen> and other times the linked-to paragraph makes no sense on its own
  200. # [16:50] <hsivonen> :-(
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  262. # [22:29] <Hixie> i wonder why people are generally pushing for 'role' and 'aria-disabled' instead of having all the attributes be 'aria' attributes
  263. # [22:29] <Hixie> i.e. why is one small part of the api intended to reuse 'role' when the rest doesn't?
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  273. # Session Close: Thu Oct 25 00:00:01 2007

The end :)