/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-11-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Nov 09 00:00:01 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  22. # [00:24] <Lachy> Hixe, re video/ogg, looks like there's a draft RFC for video/ogg being written
  23. # [00:24] <doublec> this one? https://trac.xiph.org/browser/experimental/ivo/drafts/draft-xiph-rfc3534bis.txt
  24. # [00:25] <Lachy> yes
  25. # [00:26] <annevk> I think that's why it says video/ogg
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  27. # [00:27] <Lachy> yeah, I just didn't realise that existed before I sent my mail about it 20 min ago
  28. # [00:29] <annevk> aah
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  30. # [00:32] <Hixie> Lachy: yeah i really don't know anything about this, i just took the advice of people who claimed authoratative knowledge
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  62. # [04:22] <Hixie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Nov/0123.html
  63. # [04:22] <Hixie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2007Nov/0039.html
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  70. # [05:01] <fantasai> Lachy: Can I copy parts of http://blog.whatwg.org/submit-article ?
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  81. # [06:51] <Lachy> fantasai, of course you can
  82. # [06:53] <othermaciej> hey Lachy
  83. # [06:57] <Lachy> hi
  84. # [07:10] <raspberry-lemon> hello
  85. # [07:10] <raspberry-lemon> can html5 be used today?
  86. # [07:11] <jwalden> lots of it is, in existing browsers :-)
  87. # [07:11] <jwalden> be more specific about what you want to use
  88. # [07:11] <raspberry-lemon> well, it's for a web framework called merb
  89. # [07:12] <raspberry-lemon> right now we're discussing xhtml/html issues
  90. # [07:12] <raspberry-lemon> and trying to figure out what we should default to serving
  91. # [07:13] <jwalden> HTML is generally a safer choice, because then you don't have to do content negotiation or deal with two different DOMs
  92. # [07:13] <raspberry-lemon> yeah
  93. # [07:14] <othermaciej> assuming you mean serving xhtml as application/xhtml+xml
  94. # [07:14] <othermaciej> browser xhtml implementations also tend to be less thoroughly tested and optimized
  95. # [07:14] <othermaciej> since the web is pretty much html
  96. # [07:14] <raspberry-lemon> people are going to use it to serve xhtml as text/html, no matter what we do
  97. # [07:15] <raspberry-lemon> so this is more about reasonable defaults
  98. # [07:16] <othermaciej> serving xhtml as text/html is not so great either
  99. # [07:16] <raspberry-lemon> oh, i know
  100. # [07:16] <othermaciej> but will probably cause fewer practical problems than serving different MIME types to different browsers
  101. # [07:17] <raspberry-lemon> *nods*
  102. # [07:17] <raspberry-lemon> we also have a bunch of helpers for creating code snippets
  103. # [07:17] <raspberry-lemon> image tags, etc.
  104. # [07:18] <raspberry-lemon> at the moment, they're producing xhtml syntax (trailing slashes for empty elements)
  105. # [07:18] <raspberry-lemon> which was what brought me here, really
  106. # [07:19] <webben> raspberry-lemon: Can your framework give developers a choice?
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  108. # [07:19] <webben> (perhaps even a choice of content negotiation)
  109. # [07:19] <raspberry-lemon> yes
  110. # [07:19] <webben> raspberry-lemon: So this is literally about what to use as a default serialization?
  111. # [07:19] <raspberry-lemon> yes
  112. # [07:19] <raspberry-lemon> we'd like to use html
  113. # [07:20] <raspberry-lemon> but we know that if we go for html4.01, we'll have lots of confused users
  114. # [07:20] <webben> confused by what?
  115. # [07:21] <othermaciej> HTML5 allows the trailing slashes
  116. # [07:22] <webben> If users are going to be confused by HTML 4.01 syntax, then they seem likely to be confused by a whole new version of HTML.
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  118. # [07:22] <webben> Seems the only risk here is that users get confused and produce invalid documents.
  119. # [07:23] <webben> By using an XHTMLism.
  120. # [07:23] <webben> The documents will still "work" in browsers.
  121. # [07:23] <raspberry-lemon> right
  122. # [07:25] <webben> The risk of using HTML5 is greater, since the draft continues to change substantially.
  123. # [07:25] <webben> The potential benefits mainly revolve around features, but those come and go.
  124. # [07:26] <webben> I'd look at whether the more stable bits of HTML5 allows your developers to offer any benefits to /their/ end-users.
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  267. # [20:01] <Philip`> http://philip.html5.org/demos/canvas/opera-3d/textured-cube.html
  268. # [20:02] <Philip`> Can't see any way to do lighting, so I can't even make a nice-looking cube :-(
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  275. # [20:26] <Hixie> hmm
  276. # [20:26] <virtuelv> Hixie: hm what?
  277. # [20:26] <Hixie> so the next issue i have to reply to is for an element in html5 for trees
  278. # [20:27] <Hixie> as in directory trees, family trees, that kind of thing
  279. # [20:27] <othermaciej> like graph-style trees?
  280. # [20:27] <othermaciej> or tree view type trees?
  281. # [20:27] <MikeSmith> Hixie - I remember aaron leventhal mentioning that as a deficiency in HTML ...
  282. # [20:28] <othermaciej> I think datagrid provides the right semantics for n-ary trees
  283. # [20:28] <othermaciej> but unclear if it is desirable presentation for all cases
  284. # [20:41] <Hixie> well datagrid is more of a control, i'm looking for a way to mark up the data
  285. # [20:41] <Hixie> e.g. a family tree
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  294. # [21:20] * Hixie wonders how to do it
  295. # [21:20] <othermaciej> how to do what?
  296. # [21:22] <Hixie> the family tree thing
  297. # [21:23] <othermaciej> RDF?
  298. # [21:23] * othermaciej ducks
  299. # [21:23] <Hixie> hmm, good idea
  300. # [21:23] * Hixie embeds RDF into html5
  301. # [21:23] <othermaciej> family trees are not actually trees
  302. # [21:23] <Hixie> yeah
  303. # [21:23] <othermaciej> in the general case
  304. # [21:23] <Hixie> they're graphs
  305. # [21:23] <Hixie> complicated ones in many cases
  306. # [21:23] <othermaciej> they are directed graphs with labelled edges
  307. # [21:24] <Hixie> yeah
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  309. # [21:28] <annevk> hmm, RDF
  310. # [21:28] <annevk> nice
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  316. # [22:26] <piratepenguin> does either of firefox's video patch or Opera's video build support <audio>?
  317. # [22:29] <othermaciej> WebKit nightlies support it I believe
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  319. # [22:31] <piratepenguin> hmm cool but how would I test that on GNU/Linux, what's the simplest way?
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  331. # Session Close: Sat Nov 10 00:00:00 2007

The end :)