/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-11-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Nov 23 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:06] <gsnedders> Hixie: relating to what we were talking about yesterday: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2007OctDec/0270.html
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  62. # [09:39] <virtuelv> http://politics.reddit.com/info/6181z/comments/c02ijhx <-- can't we morph to april 1st and add <sicko>
  63. # [09:43] * Lachy notes that he's currently living in "The World's Best Country to live in" (Norway), but actually disagrees with it.
  64. # [09:43] <Lachy> Australia is actually the best country to live in ;-)
  65. # [09:45] <othermaciej> my favorite country to live in is California
  66. # [09:45] <othermaciej> unfortunately we remain under US occupation
  67. # [09:45] <othermaciej> but even so it's quite nice
  68. # [09:50] <hsivonen> othermaciej: I figured the "Designed by Apple in California" thing was a not so subtle way of distancing California from the rest of the US
  69. # [09:52] <othermaciej> hsivonen: nah, it's just because the idea of California has semiotic resonance with Apple's brand identity
  70. # [09:53] * mpt is momentarily distracted by Wikipedia's "Californian independence" article
  71. # [09:53] <hsivonen> othermaciej: my Leopard box puts California and Ireland on the same depth in the implied taxonomy tree and doesn't mention the US or the EU at all
  72. # [09:53] <othermaciej> I don't think the EU considers itself a country yet
  73. # [09:55] <hsivonen> (by box I didn't mean computer but the packaging the Leopard DVD came in)
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  75. # [09:56] <hsivonen> "Designed by Apple in California" "Assembled in Ireland"
  76. # [09:58] <hsivonen> back to RFCs: do I understand correctly that the generic scheme-unaware IRI restrictions merely ban some code points after the scheme and that's it?
  77. # [10:03] <othermaciej> I don't know
  78. # [10:03] <othermaciej> so far IRIs have not been relevant to actual web content so I haven't learned what that RFC says yet
  79. # [10:05] <hsivonen> hmm. interesting PUA characters are banned in the non-query part of the IRI
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  83. # [10:35] <hsivonen> yay! javascript: IRIs have different character rules before and after a question mark in the script
  84. # [10:35] <zcorpan> hsivonen: ?
  85. # [10:38] <hsivonen> zcorpan: now I'm not sure if I'm reading the RFC in the wrong way of if the Jena IRI lib has a bug
  86. # [10:39] <hsivonen> zcorpan: but it seems to me that private use characters are allowed in the query part of the IRI per grammar but not in the path part
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  88. # [10:40] <hsivonen> zcorpan: but the Jena IRI lib gives an error in both cases anyway...
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  94. # [10:52] <hsivonen> Why does draft-hoehrmann-javascript-scheme-00 say: 'literal use of the character "/" should be avoided'?
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  96. # [10:57] <othermaciej> hsivonen: probably to avoid looking like a hierarchical URL
  97. # [10:57] <othermaciej> but I don't think it is a problem in practice
  98. # [11:00] <hsivonen> othermaciej: I don't see why looking like a hierarchical URL would be a problem even in theory
  99. # [11:01] <othermaciej> hsivonen: you'd have to ask Bjoern
  100. # [11:01] <hsivonen> yeah
  101. # [11:01] <othermaciej> he usually has reasons for what he does
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  104. # [11:14] <hsivonen> hmm. are there generic IRI processors that take a base IRI and a relative IRI and process them to produce a new absolute IRI that represents the relative IRI absolutized relative to the base IRI?
  105. # [11:14] <hsivonen> is there any non-contrived scenario where a javascript: IRI might participate in such processing?
  106. # [11:16] <othermaciej> I dunno, in what cases are things actually processed as IRIs?
  107. # [11:17] <hsivonen> I don't know.
  108. # [11:28] <hsivonen> will a browser ever consider an HTML document to have a javascript: URI as its base URI?
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  110. # [11:34] <mitsuhiko> hsivonen: i have no idea what you're talking about but "/" is discouraged in javascript in an html context because it could erroneous close a script tag
  111. # [11:35] * zcorpan added date and datetime text to the wiki
  112. # [11:35] <hsivonen> mitsuhiko: I am talking about javascript: IRIs
  113. # [11:36] <mitsuhiko> hmm. makes no sense then :)
  114. # [11:36] <hsivonen> mitsuhiko: that is, whether javascript:alert(4/2) is valid without percent escaping the /
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  116. # [11:56] <virtuelv> hsivonen: works in at least two browsers
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  121. # [12:16] <hsivonen> virtuelv: ok. (I expected unescaped form to work in browsers)
  122. # [12:17] <virtuelv> javascript:4/2 both outputs 2 in Opera and FF
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  124. # [12:22] <hsivonen> I emailed Björn to ask for the rationale of the restriction
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  156. # [19:45] <Hixie> hsivonen: i got a prince license. what should i do to set up prince as part of the spec creation pipeline any proposals?
  157. # [19:53] <hsivonen> Hixie: http://hsivonen.iki.fi/printing-wa10/
  158. # [19:54] <hsivonen> Hixie: first, you should get DejaVu working with Prince
  159. # [19:54] <hsivonen> Hixie: then perhaps diff this http://hsivonen.iki.fi/printing-wa10/specification-a4.css with your current style sheet and add my stuff in @media print
  160. # [19:55] <hsivonen> Hixie: might be better to leave the paper size to command line
  161. # [19:55] <hsivonen> Hixie: and run it once with A4 and once with Letter
  162. # [19:56] <hsivonen> Hixie: of and the entity table needs a something to select outside it unless Prince has added ::outside to tables while I wasn't looking
  163. # [19:56] <hsivonen> s/of/oh/
  164. # [20:01] <Hixie> DejaVu?
  165. # [20:02] <hsivonen> Hixie: http://dejavu.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
  166. # [20:03] <hsivonen> If you are running Prince on Linux, you might already have it out of the box if Prince finds the fonts that came with the distro
  167. # [20:03] <hsivonen> If Prince fails to find glyphs for all the characters you put in the spec, it'll tell you
  168. # [20:04] <Hixie> no fonts came with this distro
  169. # [20:04] <Hixie> i wonder how i install this dejavu thing into my local user
  170. # [20:05] <hsivonen> Hixie: you can install it in Prince's own font directory if you like
  171. # [20:07] <Hixie> wow, dejavu has good coverage of the pages i need
  172. # [20:07] <hsivonen> Hixie: I spent some time googling for a font that had WARNING SIGN
  173. # [20:08] <gsnedders> html5lib's repo has an external to itself, but it uses the https:// URL which only works for project members
  174. # [20:08] <hsivonen> (Code200* crashed Cocoa or something)
  175. # [20:08] <Hixie> i don't have mscorefonts either
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  179. # [20:12] <Hixie> good lord these corefonts are hard to get easily
  180. # [20:13] <Falen> Is there any open-source HTML parser in C? To convert HTML->Text, and read tags.. etc..
  181. # [20:13] <hsivonen> Hixie: both Ubuntu and suse make it easy
  182. # [20:14] <Hixie> i don't have root on this debian box
  183. # [20:19] <Hixie> man the lengths i go to sometimes
  184. # [20:20] * Hixie downloaded the .EXEs, downloaded the source to cabextract and compiled it, extracted the TTFs...
  185. # [20:21] <Hixie> btw the fonts changed names since you did the patch
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  187. # [20:26] <Philip`> Falen: There's a tokeniser in C++, which might not be quite what you want but at least it exists :-)
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  189. # [20:30] <webben_> Falen: libtidy is in C ... you might be able to adapt that
  190. # [20:32] <Philip`> Oh, I forgot about non-HTML5 HTML parsers - that would presumably make it easier
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  195. # [21:06] <Hixie> hsivonen: http://damowmow.com/a.pdf
  196. # [21:07] <Hixie> hsivonen: my stylesheet had changed quite a bit so diffing it didn't work well, but i tried to take what i thought was important
  197. # [21:07] <Hixie> hsivonen: any advice? (prince in particular seems to have a problem with indenting with <dd>s?)
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  199. # [21:15] <hsivonen> Hixie: the space between the left page edge and the body box should probably be much narrower
  200. # [21:16] <hsivonen> Hixie: also, I'd get rid of the colors and link underlines
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  202. # [21:17] <hsivonen> whoa page 78 is not good
  203. # [21:18] <hsivonen> Hixie: I didn't have the dd problems, but I serialized from firefox
  204. # [21:18] <jgraham_> gsnedders: Yeah I should just fix that (there was a reason for it but the side effect is unacceptable)
  205. # [21:19] <hsivonen> Hixie: in case Prince doesn't do end tag inference right, parsing and serializing with html5lib would probably help
  206. # [21:20] <hsivonen> Hixie: it appears you omitted the bit that made the entity table multicolumn and thus more compact
  207. # [21:22] <hsivonen> Hixie: table in section 5.3.2 needs special font size attention
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  211. # [22:38] <ddfreyne> Hm, question.
  212. # [22:38] <ddfreyne> The 'b' and 'i' elements... should these be interpreted as purely presentational, or do they have some semantic value as well?
  213. # [22:39] <Lachy> ddfreyne, see http://lachy.id.au/log/2007/05/b-and-i
  214. # [22:39] <ddfreyne> I'm thinking purely presentational; you'd use them where you would usually use bold and italic in non-hyper text, am I right?
  215. # [22:39] <ddfreyne> thanks
  216. # [22:40] * Joins: doublec (n=doublec@203-97-173-6.cable.telstraclear.net)
  217. # [22:40] <ddfreyne> sweet, that's exactly what I was thinking
  218. # [22:42] <Philip`> You'd use them where you would usually use bold and italic in non-hyper text if otherwise some meaning would be lost, but not where you'd use them just because they're pretty
  219. # [22:42] <ddfreyne> yeah, exactly
  220. # [22:42] <ddfreyne> I was just thinking of blog posts marked up like "<b><i>hello, blah blah blah</i></b>"
  221. # [22:43] <Philip`> (Woah, I only just noticed that X3D doesn't use a namespace)
  222. # [22:45] <Hixie> hsivonen: the left side gap is intentional (for issue notes and handwritten margin notes)
  223. # [22:46] <Hixie> hsivonen: the colours are also intentional (for colour printing) and the link underlines are useful to know exactly what is being hyperlinked
  224. # [22:46] <Hixie> though i suppose i could remove them
  225. # [22:47] <Hixie> hsivonen: fixed the column thing
  226. # [22:47] <Hixie> kinda
  227. # [22:48] <ddfreyne> I was just thinking of blog posts marked up like "<b><i>hello, blah blah blah</i></b>"
  228. # [22:48] <ddfreyne> err.
  229. # [22:48] <ddfreyne> wrong window :)
  230. # [22:49] <Hixie> i'm missing a bunch of glyphs still
  231. # [22:50] * Quits: doublec (n=doublec@203-97-173-6.cable.telstraclear.net)
  232. # [22:51] <Hixie> hsivonen: regenning a.pdf, take a look in a few minutes
  233. # [22:52] <Philip`> (Actually, the specification has no namespace, and a non-zero number of implementations produce non-namespaced content, but a non-zero number has "taken a few liberties until a firm specification is defined" and accepts content in the http://www.web3d.org/specifications/x3d-namespace namespace)
  234. # [22:52] <Philip`> (which seems kind of a suboptimal situation)
  235. # [23:03] * Joins: N-K (n=N-K@ip-89.net-89-2-186.rev.numericable.fr)
  236. # [23:04] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  237. # [23:04] * Joins: doublec (n=doublec@203-97-173-6.cable.telstraclear.net)
  238. # [23:05] <Lachy> http://html5.lachy.id.au/ has finally been restored. I believe I have found the issue and that it was actually caused by other php scripts on my server, not these ones.
  239. # [23:10] * Quits: doublec (n=doublec@203-97-173-6.cable.telstraclear.net)
  240. # [23:10] * Quits: wakaba_ (n=w@79.163.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  241. # [23:11] * Joins: wakaba (n=w@79.163.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  242. # [23:58] * Quits: Falen (n=chatzill@81-237-250-8-no147.tbcn.telia.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  243. # Session Close: Sat Nov 24 00:00:01 2007

The end :)