/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-11-30 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Fri Nov 30 00:00:01 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:04] * Quits: phsiao (i=shawn@nat/ibm/x-a5451fcbdb60537c)
  4. # [00:09] * Joins: csarven- (n=nevrasc@modemcable130.251-202-24.mc.videotron.ca)
  5. # [00:14] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) ("ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)")
  6. # [00:16] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@233.80-203-100.nextgentel.com) ("Leaving")
  7. # [00:21] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140)
  8. # [00:37] * Joins: phsiao (n=shawn@c-24-61-15-24.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  9. # [00:37] * Quits: phsiao (n=shawn@c-24-61-15-24.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  10. # [00:45] <Hixie> wow, what insanity
  11. # [00:45] <Hixie> search for inurl:"nodetag.js" on Yahoo! and follow the trail
  12. # [00:46] <Hixie> i honestly thought it was some sort of botnet artefact for a while
  13. # [00:46] <Hixie> turns out to be what appears to be part of a legitimate survey network (questionmarket.com)
  14. # [00:46] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  15. # [00:46] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140)
  16. # [00:48] <Hixie> their scripts have such wacky things as:
  17. # [00:48] <Hixie> function DL_rw_0_8721_0()
  18. # [00:48] <Hixie> {
  19. # [00:48] <Hixie> if (0 != 4 && !0) {
  20. # [00:48] <Hixie> setTimeout("DL_jsc_0_8721_0()" , Math.floor(Math.random() * 5) * 200 + 500);
  21. # [00:48] <Hixie> } else {
  22. # [00:49] <gavin> o_O
  23. # [00:50] <Hixie> wow, a whole bunch of sites have identical stat.js files
  24. # [00:51] <Hixie> aha, part of ShopFactory
  25. # [00:54] * Quits: psa2 (n=yomode@71.93.19.66) (Remote closed the connection)
  26. # [00:56] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.96.166)
  27. # [00:56] * Joins: psa (n=yomode@71.93.19.66)
  28. # [00:56] * Joins: annevk2 (n=annevk@c529c1b12.cable.wanadoo.nl)
  29. # [00:58] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  30. # [01:07] <Philip`> "The field of view shall be greater than zero and smaller than π" - that's quite an unhelpful character-misencoding :-(
  31. # [01:08] <Philip`> Hmm, it says <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> but the web server sends Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
  32. # [01:08] <Philip`> (on http://www.web3d.org/x3d/specifications/ISO-IEC-19775-X3DAbstractSpecification_Revision1_to_Part1/Part01/components/navigation.html )
  33. # [01:16] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  34. # [01:17] * Quits: tndH (i=Rob@adsl-87-102-34-33.karoo.KCOM.COM) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  35. # [01:17] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.96.166)
  36. # [01:19] * Quits: annevk2 (n=annevk@c529c1b12.cable.wanadoo.nl) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  37. # [01:20] * Quits: billmason (n=billmaso@ip156.unival.com) (".")
  38. # [01:28] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  39. # [01:29] <othermaciej> Hixie: that hurts my brain
  40. # [01:30] <Hixie> hurt mine, too
  41. # [01:30] * Hixie tries to satisfy Roy
  42. # [01:45] * Quits: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-70.dsl.pipex.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  43. # [01:48] <Hixie> do Athenia Associates have anything to do with Movable Type?
  44. # [01:49] <Hixie> i don't understand why their copyright is in almost every mt-site.js file:
  45. # [01:49] <Hixie> http://www.solareditores.com/digital/blog/mt-site.js
  46. # [01:49] <Hixie> wait, that one doesn't mention movable type
  47. # [01:49] <Hixie> some of them do
  48. # [01:50] <Hixie> and they all look basically the same near the top
  49. # [01:52] <Hixie> many do seem to mention typekey
  50. # [01:52] <Hixie> which is a six apart thing, as is movable type, for which it was made, or something
  51. # [01:52] <Hixie> gah
  52. # [01:52] <Hixie> con-foosed
  53. # [02:09] * Quits: dabu (n=power1@87-194-62-72.bethere.co.uk) ("http://www.techbrainz.com")
  54. # [02:10] <kingryan> Hixie: it looks like six apart just used some free code copyrighted by athenia
  55. # [02:11] * Quits: kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-002-056.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  56. # [02:19] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)")
  57. # [02:22] <Hixie> maybe, yeah
  58. # [02:22] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  59. # [02:27] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)")
  60. # [02:47] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  61. # [02:56] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)")
  62. # [03:06] <Hixie> why are people still complaining about the spec having too much targetted at (whatever isn't their conformance class), when I've already said multiple times that we will in due course annotate the spec to provide different views to address this?
  63. # [03:06] <Hixie> do they just not believe me? or what?
  64. # [03:10] <othermaciej> well, T.V. Raman just favorably quoted a claim (effectively) that document conformance is not defined at all
  65. # [03:10] <othermaciej> which just seems wrong to me
  66. # [03:19] <Dashiva> Hixie: You're still *gasp* spending time editing those parts of the spec
  67. # [03:21] * Joins: mpt_ (n=mpt@222-152-132-193.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)
  68. # [03:24] * Joins: karlUshi (n=karl@dhcp-246-193.mag.keio.ac.jp)
  69. # [03:24] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  70. # [03:24] <karlUshi> Hixie?
  71. # [03:24] <karlUshi> would it be possible to change karl@w3.org by mike@w3.org in http://blog.whatwg.org/w3c-restarts-html-effort
  72. # [03:24] <karlUshi> I keep receiving requests :)
  73. # [03:24] <karlUshi> that I would prefer to have to redirect to mike
  74. # [03:25] <karlUshi> Thanks.
  75. # [03:25] * Parts: karlUshi (n=karl@dhcp-246-193.mag.keio.ac.jp) ("Leaving")
  76. # [03:28] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@222-152-145-250.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  77. # [03:42] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  78. # [03:42] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140)
  79. # [04:07] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.96.166)
  80. # [04:12] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140)
  81. # [04:15] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  82. # [04:46] <MikeSmith> regarding request from karl, it might be better to just point that blog entry to here:
  83. # [04:46] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/40318/instructions
  84. # [04:49] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  85. # [05:08] * Quits: aroben (i=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) ("Leaving")
  86. # [05:13] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  87. # [05:13] <Hixie> karl: done
  88. # [05:13] <Hixie> MikeSmith: the reason for that blog post was that the instructions on w3.org weren't simple enough
  89. # [05:13] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  90. # [05:14] <MikeSmith> Hixie - OK, I see
  91. # [05:19] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  92. # [05:21] * Quits: csarven- (n=nevrasc@modemcable130.251-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) ("http://www.csarven.ca/")
  93. # [05:43] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  94. # [05:43] * mpt_ is now known as mpt
  95. # [05:43] * Quits: doublec (n=doublec@203-79-123-228.adsl.paradise.net.nz)
  96. # [05:56] * Quits: roc (n=roc@203-79-123-228.adsl.paradise.net.nz)
  97. # [06:11] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@c-71-198-185-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  98. # [06:21] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  99. # [06:26] * weinig is now known as weinig|zZz
  100. # [07:13] * Joins: yod (n=ot@softbank221018155222.bbtec.net)
  101. # [07:15] <othermaciej> http://www.justsayhi.com/bb/html_quiz
  102. # [07:18] <Hixie> i think i got about 70 odd when i tried
  103. # [07:18] <Hixie> i pasted the ones i missed in the channel
  104. # [07:20] <othermaciej> I got 65
  105. # [07:21] <othermaciej> any that both of us missed should probably be dropped :-)
  106. # [07:29] <Hixie> i missed some pretty important ones :-)
  107. # [07:30] <mpt> 64
  108. # [07:32] <mpt> I forgot all the monospace ones
  109. # [07:35] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  110. # [07:36] <othermaciej> I missed <html>
  111. # [07:45] * Joins: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5laptop14.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  112. # [07:51] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) ("ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)")
  113. # [07:55] * Quits: heycam (n=cam@clm-laptop.infotech.monash.edu.au) ("bye")
  114. # [08:15] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-45-61.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  115. # [08:44] * Quits: yod (n=ot@softbank221018155222.bbtec.net) ("Leaving")
  116. # [08:44] * Joins: heycam (n=cam@203-217-79-225.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  117. # [08:49] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-72-87-174-252.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  118. # [09:06] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-119-195-74.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  119. # [09:16] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  120. # [09:31] * Joins: tndH_ (i=Rob@87.102.21.203)
  121. # [09:31] * tndH_ is now known as tndH
  122. # [09:50] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  123. # [10:02] * Joins: OmegaJunior (n=ZJr@a82-95-48-162.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  124. # [10:06] * maikmerten is now known as maik|afk
  125. # [10:06] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com)
  126. # [10:12] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@cm-84.215.41.149.getinternet.no) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  127. # [10:27] * Quits: Lachy_ (n=Lachy@pat-tdc.opera.com) ("Leaving")
  128. # [10:29] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  129. # [10:38] * Parts: OmegaJunior (n=ZJr@a82-95-48-162.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  130. # [10:46] * Joins: roc_ (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  131. # [10:46] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-119-195-74.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  132. # [10:48] * Quits: roc_ (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net) (Client Quit)
  133. # [10:51] * Joins: roc_ (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  134. # [11:04] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-45-61.dsl.telstraclear.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  135. # [11:05] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  136. # [11:07] * othermaciej is now known as om_sleep
  137. # [11:12] * Quits: roc_ (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  138. # [11:22] * maik|afk is now known as maikmerten
  139. # [12:35] * Joins: peepo (n=Jay@host86-153-138-78.range86-153.btcentralplus.com)
  140. # [12:42] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  141. # [12:49] * om_sleep is now known as om_cant_sleep
  142. # [13:02] * om_cant_sleep is now known as othermaciej
  143. # [13:02] * Quits: peepo (n=Jay@host86-153-138-78.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) ("later")
  144. # [13:45] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  145. # [13:45] * Quits: jgraham (n=jgraham@81-86-218-70.dsl.pipex.com) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  146. # [13:45] * Quits: Thezilch (i=fuz007@c-68-54-228-249.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  147. # [13:45] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  148. # [13:45] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  149. # [13:45] * Quits: csarven (n=nevrasc@81-5-133-33.static.nfwebsolutions.com) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  150. # [13:45] * Quits: Kuruma (n=Kuruman@h123-176-107-050.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  151. # [13:45] * Quits: takkaria (n=takkaria@isparp.co.uk) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  152. # [13:45] * Quits: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5laptop14.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  153. # [13:45] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  154. # [13:45] * Quits: hendry (n=hendry@nox.vm.bytemark.co.uk) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  155. # [13:45] * Quits: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@15.84-48-60.nextgentel.com) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  156. # [13:45] * Quits: Philip` (n=philip@zaynar.demon.co.uk) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  157. # [13:45] * Quits: alp (n=alp@host-87-74-21-228.bulldogdsl.com) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  158. # [13:45] * Quits: tndH (i=Rob@87.102.21.203) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  159. # [13:45] * Quits: YaaL (i=yaal@hell.pl) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  160. # [13:45] * Quits: Hixie (i=ianh@trivini.no) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  161. # [13:45] * Quits: deltab (n=deltab@82-36-30-34.cable.ubr02.smal.blueyonder.co.uk) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  162. # [13:45] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@58.157.21.205) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  163. # [13:45] * Quits: syp| (n=syp@lasigpc9.epfl.ch) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  164. # [13:45] * Quits: wakaba_ (n=w@79.163.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  165. # [13:45] * Quits: bradee-oh (n=bradeeoh@web7.webfaction.com) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  166. # [13:45] * Quits: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  167. # [13:45] * Quits: ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  168. # [13:45] * Quits: weinig|zZz (n=weinig@c-71-198-185-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  169. # [13:45] * Quits: psa (n=yomode@71.93.19.66) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  170. # [13:45] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  171. # [13:45] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  172. # [13:45] * Quits: hsivonen (n=hsivonen@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  173. # [13:45] * Quits: mitsuhiko (n=mitsuhik@ubuntu/member/mitsuhiko) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  174. # [13:46] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  175. # [13:46] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  176. # [13:46] * Joins: tndH (i=Rob@87.102.21.203)
  177. # [13:46] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  178. # [13:46] * Joins: weinig|zZz (n=weinig@c-71-198-185-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  179. # [13:46] * Joins: psa (n=yomode@71.93.19.66)
  180. # [13:46] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  181. # [13:46] * Joins: csarven (n=nevrasc@81-5-133-33.static.nfwebsolutions.com)
  182. # [13:46] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@58.157.21.205)
  183. # [13:46] * Joins: bradee-oh (n=bradeeoh@web7.webfaction.com)
  184. # [13:46] * Joins: syp| (n=syp@lasigpc9.epfl.ch)
  185. # [13:46] * Joins: Kuruma (n=Kuruman@h123-176-107-050.catv01.catv-yokohama.ne.jp)
  186. # [13:46] * Joins: wakaba_ (n=w@79.163.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  187. # [13:46] * Joins: takkaria (n=takkaria@isparp.co.uk)
  188. # [13:46] * Joins: ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne)
  189. # [13:46] * Joins: deltab (n=deltab@82-36-30-34.cable.ubr02.smal.blueyonder.co.uk)
  190. # [13:46] * Joins: Hixie (i=ianh@trivini.no)
  191. # [13:46] * Joins: YaaL (i=yaal@hell.pl)
  192. # [13:46] * Joins: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  193. # [13:46] * Joins: hsivonen (n=hsivonen@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi)
  194. # [13:46] * Joins: mitsuhiko (n=mitsuhik@ubuntu/member/mitsuhiko)
  195. # [13:47] * Joins: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5laptop14.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  196. # [13:47] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt)
  197. # [13:47] * Joins: hendry (n=hendry@nox.vm.bytemark.co.uk)
  198. # [13:47] * Joins: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@15.84-48-60.nextgentel.com)
  199. # [13:47] * Joins: Philip` (n=philip@zaynar.demon.co.uk)
  200. # [13:47] * Joins: alp (n=alp@host-87-74-21-228.bulldogdsl.com)
  201. # [13:47] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  202. # [13:47] * Joins: jgraham (n=jgraham@81-86-218-70.dsl.pipex.com)
  203. # [13:47] * Joins: Thezilch (i=fuz007@c-68-54-228-249.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
  204. # [13:47] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) ("The computer fell asleep")
  205. # [14:13] * Quits: Philip` (n=philip@zaynar.demon.co.uk) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  206. # [14:13] * Quits: hendry (n=hendry@nox.vm.bytemark.co.uk) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  207. # [14:13] * Quits: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5laptop14.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  208. # [14:13] * Quits: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@15.84-48-60.nextgentel.com) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  209. # [14:13] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  210. # [14:13] * Quits: alp (n=alp@host-87-74-21-228.bulldogdsl.com) (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  211. # [14:13] * Joins: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5laptop14.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  212. # [14:13] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt)
  213. # [14:13] * Joins: hendry (n=hendry@nox.vm.bytemark.co.uk)
  214. # [14:13] * Joins: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@15.84-48-60.nextgentel.com)
  215. # [14:13] * Joins: Philip` (n=philip@zaynar.demon.co.uk)
  216. # [14:13] * Joins: alp (n=alp@host-87-74-21-228.bulldogdsl.com)
  217. # [14:14] * Joins: hsivonen_ (n=hsivonen@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi)
  218. # [14:14] <Philip`> Is http://xml.resource.org/ the sensible thing for writing RFC-like documents?
  219. # [14:16] * Joins: webben (i=benh@nat/yahoo/x-b28d0a5baccbd74f)
  220. # [14:19] * Quits: hsivonen (n=hsivonen@kekkonen.cs.hut.fi) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  221. # [14:41] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  222. # [14:53] * Joins: julianreschke (n=chatzill@mail.greenbytes.de)
  223. # [14:55] <julianreschke> Philip: yes, xml.resource.org is a good starting point. You may also want to try the XSLT version when generating HTML output.
  224. # [14:55] <zcorpan> hsivonen_: made http://simon.html5.org/temp/validator-nu-collapse.html work in ie6
  225. # [15:05] <Philip`> julianreschke: Okay, thanks
  226. # [15:06] * Philip` tries the XSLT version, and sees that it seems to work nicely
  227. # [15:08] <julianreschke> Philip: if it doesn't, or if you have questions, please feel free to complain :-)
  228. # [15:54] * Joins: phsiao (n=shawn@c-24-61-15-24.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  229. # [16:10] <MikeSmith> Hixie - awake?
  230. # [16:14] <Lachy> hey MikeSmith, that was an awesome response you sent about canvas today. Best explanation I've seen for why canvas is needed :-)
  231. # [16:18] <MikeSmith> Lachy - thanks
  232. # [16:18] <MikeSmith> took me a few minutes to write that one
  233. # [16:18] <MikeSmith> plus a few minutes prior to that to think about it a little
  234. # [16:19] * Quits: phsiao (n=shawn@c-24-61-15-24.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  235. # [16:26] <hendry> Lachy: URL? :)
  236. # [16:26] <Lachy> hendry, see public-html
  237. # [16:26] <hendry> ok
  238. # [16:28] <zcorpan> was it the very long email? :)
  239. # [16:28] * Joins: billmason (n=billmaso@ip156.unival.com)
  240. # [16:28] <Lachy> yes
  241. # [16:29] * zcorpan didn't read that one completely
  242. # [16:41] * Quits: julianreschke (n=chatzill@mail.greenbytes.de) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  243. # [16:49] * Joins: phsiao (i=shawn@nat/ibm/x-7c795643a5ca0874)
  244. # [16:57] * Quits: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5laptop14.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  245. # [17:01] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  246. # [17:01] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) (Client Quit)
  247. # [17:05] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  248. # [17:21] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  249. # [17:46] <hendry> can anyone recommend some good canvas demos that will work in Firefox 2.0.0.10?
  250. # [17:47] <zcorpan> define "good"
  251. # [17:47] <hendry> not tests
  252. # [17:48] <hendry> something that will impress your friends
  253. # [17:48] <zcorpan> http://simon.html5.org/presentations/html5-geekmeet.en points to 3 demos
  254. # [17:50] <Philip`> hendry: You really don't want 2.0.0.10
  255. # [17:51] <Philip`> because drawImage doesn't work in it
  256. # [17:51] <hendry> umm, http://tapper-ware.net/canvas3d/ doesn't work because of that
  257. # [17:52] <Philip`> Use http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/2.0.0.11-candidates/rc1/ if you want anything non-trivial to work
  258. # [17:52] <Philip`> or use Opera :-)
  259. # [17:53] <hendry> are the any dev tools like PHP or something that make it easy for devs to generate canvas code? GWT?
  260. # [17:53] <Philip`> http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/ is still my favourite canvas demo but I'm totally biased
  261. # [17:53] <Philip`> hendry: Why would you want to generate code, rather than just writing it?
  262. # [17:54] <hendry> ok, my use case wouldn't be games (like several of the demos I've seen)
  263. # [17:55] <hendry> i want to perhaps visualize data with canvas. so i'm left wondering perhaps howto get access.log and <canvas> to talk
  264. # [17:55] <Philip`> Like http://www.liquidx.net/plotkit/ ?
  265. # [17:56] <hendry> Philip`: ah, that's more like it
  266. # [17:57] <zcorpan> or you could use svg :)
  267. # [18:00] <hendry> SVG almost detracts from canvas. Because you can use SVG for example instead of <canvas> in plotkit can't you? And probably in a lot of other use cases too
  268. # [18:01] <zcorpan> likely
  269. # [18:01] <Philip`> There are lots of cases where they can overlap
  270. # [18:01] <Philip`> and some of those are nicer in canvas, and some are nicer in SVG
  271. # [18:02] <Philip`> and other cases can only realistically be done in one or the other
  272. # [18:03] <hendry> ok an example for specific case
  273. # [18:04] <hendry> can SVG do animation? canvas can defn. do animation
  274. # [18:04] <hendry> canvas is somewhat supported in IE6 right? that SVG isn't?
  275. # [18:05] <Philip`> SVG can do declarative animation, and you can do scripted animation too
  276. # [18:06] <hendry> hmm, so there is no distinction between the two with animation
  277. # [18:06] <Philip`> There's a nasty hack to get some support for some parts of <canvas> in IE, which it seems people are using successfully in practice
  278. # [18:07] <Philip`> I don't think anyone does the same to make SVG work in IE
  279. # [18:07] <hendry> so +1 for canvas. kinda.d
  280. # [18:08] * Joins: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-70.dsl.pipex.com)
  281. # [18:08] <hendry> i need IE6 on this macosx machine i have for testing
  282. # [18:08] <Philip`> hendry: There is a distinction - e.g. SVG lets you animate a single object moving, whereas canvas requires you to repaint the entire screen whenever you change something
  283. # [18:09] <Philip`> and SVG has annoying bugs in most implementations when you try doing something fancy, whereas canvas is more predictable since it has simple bugs instead of fancy bugs
  284. # [18:10] <hendry> so there is some talk about canvas3D
  285. # [18:10] <hendry> silly question: can SVG do 3D? :)
  286. # [18:11] <Philip`> Canvas-3d is pretty much totally different to canvas-2d
  287. # [18:11] <Philip`> (http://blog.vlad1.com/2007/11/26/canvas-3d-gl-power-web-style/ etc)
  288. # [18:11] <hendry> and so would SVG-3D I guess (if it exists?)
  289. # [18:12] <Philip`> SVG is just focussed on 2D, and doesn't make it easy to emulate 3D
  290. # [18:12] <Philip`> There's stuff like X3D which is kind of analogous to SVG except 3D
  291. # [18:12] <hendry> http://apike.ca/prog_svg_threed.html
  292. # [18:15] * hendry thinks if i could do a couple of ven diagrams showing 1) support in browsers 2) use cases it could accomplish
  293. # [18:15] <hendry> perhaps a little pointless as the future (support + features) is probably the most important elements in my mind.
  294. # [18:15] <Philip`> That cube appears to not work in either Opera or Firefox 2 :-(
  295. # [18:17] <Philip`> From what I've seen, canvas-2d allows slightly more impressive 3D emulation, though obviously it's all useless compared to canvas-3d
  296. # [18:22] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  297. # [18:39] * Joins: aroben (i=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben)
  298. # [18:43] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) ("The computer fell asleep")
  299. # [18:49] * Quits: weinig|zZz (n=weinig@c-71-198-185-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  300. # [18:49] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  301. # [18:52] * Joins: maikmerten (n=maikmert@L8190.l.pppool.de)
  302. # [18:55] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  303. # [19:02] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-131.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
  304. # [19:19] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-97-28.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  305. # [19:24] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140)
  306. # [19:28] * Joins: jacobolus1 (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-97-28.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  307. # [19:29] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-97-28.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) (Nick collision from services.)
  308. # [19:29] * jacobolus1 is now known as jacobolus
  309. # [19:29] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@222-152-132-193.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)
  310. # [19:36] * Quits: webben (i=benh@nat/yahoo/x-b28d0a5baccbd74f)
  311. # [19:40] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@233.80-203-100.nextgentel.com)
  312. # [20:23] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  313. # [20:30] * Joins: jacobolus1 (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-252-151.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  314. # [20:30] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-97-28.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) (Nick collision from services.)
  315. # [20:30] * jacobolus1 is now known as jacobolus
  316. # [20:39] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  317. # [20:39] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  318. # [20:40] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  319. # [20:41] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  320. # [20:42] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  321. # [20:43] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  322. # [20:44] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  323. # [20:45] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  324. # [20:47] * Quits: maikmerten (n=maikmert@L8190.l.pppool.de) ("Leaving")
  325. # [20:52] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  326. # [20:57] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-252-151.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  327. # [21:05] * Joins: G0k (n=hmason@rrdhcp204-637.redrover.cornell.edu)
  328. # [21:05] * Parts: G0k (n=hmason@rrdhcp204-637.redrover.cornell.edu)
  329. # [21:38] * Joins: G0k (n=hmason@rrdhcp204-637.redrover.cornell.edu)
  330. # [21:38] * Quits: G0k (n=hmason@rrdhcp204-637.redrover.cornell.edu) (Client Quit)
  331. # [21:42] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  332. # [21:47] * Joins: KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-fb7b1de8d41e40cf)
  333. # [21:52] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  334. # [22:00] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  335. # [22:05] * Philip` wonders why "[whatwg] "All" checkbox possible?" got marked as spam
  336. # [22:05] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  337. # [22:06] <Philip`> False positives are kind of annoying :-(
  338. # [22:22] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  339. # [22:22] * Quits: KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-fb7b1de8d41e40cf) ("The computer fell asleep")
  340. # [22:35] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  341. # [22:46] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  342. # [22:53] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  343. # [23:00] * aroben is now known as aroben|meeting
  344. # [23:14] * Joins: G0k (n=hmason@rrdhcp204-637.redrover.cornell.edu)
  345. # [23:16] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  346. # [23:17] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.111.198)
  347. # [23:19] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@222-152-132-193.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) ("Leaving")
  348. # [23:25] <Hixie> someone with an account on this forum -- http://www.memestreams.net/thread/bid34588/ -- should post a reply pointing them to the updated faq answer
  349. # [23:28] <G0k> hey has anyone read about the w3c REX thing?
  350. # [23:29] <G0k> http://www.w3.org/TR/rex/
  351. # [23:30] <Hixie> my understanding is that patent issues killed that spec
  352. # [23:30] <Hixie> but i could be wrong
  353. # [23:30] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  354. # [23:30] <Hixie> it was basically a dom patching format
  355. # [23:31] <G0k> patents on...dom patching?
  356. # [23:31] <G0k> (only curious because html5's dom events thing has some major cross over there)
  357. # [23:31] <Hixie> i don't know what the patents were on, i specifically try to avoid learning about patents so as to avoid patent knowledge liability
  358. # [23:31] <Hixie> the dom events stuff is actually very different
  359. # [23:31] * Quits: psa (n=yomode@71.93.19.66) (Remote closed the connection)
  360. # [23:31] <Hixie> it doesn't do dom patching, it just spawns events
  361. # [23:31] * Joins: psa (n=yomode@71.93.19.66)
  362. # [23:32] <Hixie> rex sounds like the same thing but is actually very different when you look at actually what it does
  363. # [23:32] <Hixie> iirc
  364. # [23:32] <G0k> the events could be dom manipulation events though right?
  365. # [23:32] <Hixie> sure but they don't cause anything to happen
  366. # [23:32] <G0k> although...it doesn't specify how you handle them
  367. # [23:32] <G0k> ah
  368. # [23:32] <G0k> yeah
  369. # [23:32] <Hixie> dom manipulation events everywhere except in the rex spec are triggered _by_ mutations, not the other way aronud (which is unique to rex)
  370. # [23:36] <G0k> interesting
  371. # [23:39] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@cm-84.215.41.149.getinternet.no)
  372. # [23:39] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@cm-84.215.41.149.getinternet.no) (Remote closed the connection)
  373. # [23:39] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@cm-84.215.41.149.getinternet.no)
  374. # [23:45] * Quits: G0k (n=hmason@rrdhcp204-637.redrover.cornell.edu)
  375. # [23:46] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@222-152-132-193.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)
  376. # [23:47] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-53-124.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  377. # [23:50] * Quits: phsiao (i=shawn@nat/ibm/x-7c795643a5ca0874)
  378. # [23:50] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-131.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
  379. # [23:51] * weinig is now known as weinig|brb
  380. # Session Close: Sat Dec 01 00:00:00 2007

The end :)