/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-12-01 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Sat Dec 01 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] * Joins: Catfish_Man (n=david@adium/CatfishMan)
  4. # [00:02] * Joins: jwalden (n=waldo@STRATTON-THREE-SIXTY-TWO.MIT.EDU)
  5. # [00:12] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@17.sub-75-211-59.myvzw.com)
  6. # [00:13] * Joins: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@17.255.111.198)
  7. # [00:15] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.111.198) (Connection reset by peer)
  8. # [00:16] * othermaciej_ is now known as othermaciej
  9. # [00:18] * weinig|brb is now known as weinig
  10. # [00:34] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-53-124.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  11. # [00:37] <Hixie> i think i can safely announce that /js/ is the winner of most popular directory to put your site-specific scripts in
  12. # [00:37] <Hixie> outbeating /scripts/ and /jscripts/ and /javascript/ by a lot
  13. # [00:40] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  14. # [00:40] <othermaciej> how popular is "ecmascript"?
  15. # [00:41] <Hixie> i didn't see it
  16. # [00:42] <Dashiva> What about for style?
  17. # [00:42] <Hixie> don't know, just doing scripts here
  18. # [00:43] * jwalden snickers at "ecmascript"
  19. # [00:44] <othermaciej> that's about the level I was expecting
  20. # [00:44] * othermaciej was thinking of proposing that ECMAScript 4 be renamed to JavaScript 4
  21. # [00:44] <othermaciej> because most web developers haven't a fucking clue what ECMAScript is
  22. # [00:45] <Hixie> ECMAScript was used to avoid trademark issues with Sun and Java
  23. # [00:45] <Hixie> it was intentionally a stupid name so nobody would use it
  24. # [00:47] <othermaciej> yeah, I don't think the trademark issue is real
  25. # [00:47] <othermaciej> certainly not any more
  26. # [00:47] <othermaciej> would be a good bug to fix now if we can
  27. # [00:47] <othermaciej> especially since the new spec uses "ES" and "ECMASCRIPT" in identifiers
  28. # [00:48] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.111.198)
  29. # [00:49] <Dashiva> Might be problematic with regard to mozilla
  30. # [00:49] <Hixie> ew
  31. # [00:49] <Dashiva> Their js2 runs mostly parallel to es4
  32. # [00:50] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.111.198)
  33. # [00:57] * Joins: epeus (n=KevinMar@24.sub-70-212-142.myvzw.com)
  34. # [01:01] * Quits: epeus (n=KevinMar@24.sub-70-212-142.myvzw.com) (Client Quit)
  35. # [01:04] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@222-152-132-193.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  36. # [01:04] * Joins: webben (n=benh@91.84.28.65)
  37. # [01:04] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  38. # [01:05] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@17.sub-75-211-59.myvzw.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  39. # [01:19] * Quits: billmason (n=billmaso@ip156.unival.com) (".")
  40. # [01:21] * Joins: webben_ (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com)
  41. # [01:36] * Quits: webben (n=benh@91.84.28.65) (Connection timed out)
  42. # [01:46] * aroben|meeting is now known as aroben
  43. # [01:56] * Quits: Catfish_Man (n=david@adium/CatfishMan)
  44. # [02:01] <Dashiva> Love that mail, "how about expanding it to the full thing like the HTML 4.01 DOCTYPE?"
  45. # [02:01] <Dashiva> No reason given, just let's make it longer
  46. # [02:07] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-72-87-174-252.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  47. # [02:09] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140)
  48. # [02:14] * Quits: tndH (i=Rob@87.102.21.203) ("ChatZilla 0.9.79-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508]")
  49. # [02:17] <jruderman> http://www.webdevout.net/david-hammond/works/we-didnt-write-the-browsers
  50. # [02:18] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  51. # [02:19] <Dashiva> The revolution will not be namespaced
  52. # [02:21] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140)
  53. # [02:23] * Joins: doublec (n=doublec@203-211-93-38.ue.woosh.co.nz)
  54. # [02:26] * Joins: webben (n=benh@91.84.28.65)
  55. # [02:33] * Quits: webben_ (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  56. # [02:50] * Joins: grimboy (n=grimboy@85-211-253-144.dsl.pipex.com)
  57. # [02:51] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140)
  58. # [03:10] * Quits: wakaba_ (n=w@79.163.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) ("CHOCOA")
  59. # [03:11] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  60. # [03:13] * Joins: wakaba (n=w@79.163.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  61. # [03:15] <Hixie> Lachy: hey, i used to sleep in the room opposite yours
  62. # [03:21] * Quits: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-70.dsl.pipex.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  63. # [03:21] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  64. # [03:36] * Quits: aroben (i=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) ("Leaving")
  65. # [03:38] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.111.198)
  66. # [03:38] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.111.198)
  67. # [03:39] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@c-71-198-185-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  68. # [03:46] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.111.198)
  69. # [03:50] <MikeSmith> Hixie - /me wonders where Lachy is staying. Alan's current place?
  70. # [03:52] <Hixie> no
  71. # [03:52] <Hixie> though i lived there too
  72. # [03:52] <Hixie> see his blog for link to pictures on flickr
  73. # [03:52] <Hixie> anywya gotta go
  74. # [03:52] <MikeSmith> see yah
  75. # [04:04] * Joins: kfish (n=conrad@61.194.21.25)
  76. # [04:20] * Quits: jwalden (n=waldo@STRATTON-THREE-SIXTY-TWO.MIT.EDU) (Remote closed the connection)
  77. # [05:00] * Quits: kfish (n=conrad@61.194.21.25) (Remote closed the connection)
  78. # [05:04] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  79. # [05:04] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) (Client Quit)
  80. # [05:26] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  81. # [05:43] * Quits: doublec (n=doublec@203-211-93-38.ue.woosh.co.nz)
  82. # [05:53] * Quits: csarven (n=nevrasc@81-5-133-33.static.nfwebsolutions.com) (Remote closed the connection)
  83. # [06:58] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  84. # [07:15] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  85. # [07:19] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) (Client Quit)
  86. # [07:20] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  87. # [07:52] <Hixie> i hate how when you define a function inside a function of an object the 'this' of the inner function isn't the same as the outer function's
  88. # [07:55] <othermaciej> ES4 fixes that
  89. # [07:55] <Hixie> really?
  90. # [07:55] <Hixie> without breaking existing scripts?
  91. # [07:55] <Hixie> how?
  92. # [07:55] <othermaciej> but the canonical way to deal is to do this in the outer function:
  93. # [07:55] <othermaciej> var self = this;
  94. # [07:55] <othermaciej> and then use self in the nested func
  95. # [07:55] <Hixie> yeah
  96. # [07:55] <othermaciej> I don't know if it's without breaking existing scripts
  97. # [07:56] <Hixie> (i tend to do var func = function (self) { return function (real args) { ... self ... }; }(this); so as to not polute the outer scope with a 'self')
  98. # [07:56] <Hixie> (also known as currying)
  99. # [08:36] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-72-87-174-252.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  100. # [08:53] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  101. # [09:47] <othermaciej> sure, also an acceptable way to do things
  102. # [09:47] <othermaciej> although if the outer scope is a function scope that's captured by the continuation it's not much cleaner and may make things a tiny bit slower depending on implementation details
  103. # [09:48] <Hixie> yeah
  104. # [09:54] * Joins: aroben (n=adamrobe@c-67-160-250-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  105. # [09:57] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  106. # [10:41] * Joins: doublec (n=doublec@203-211-93-38.ue.woosh.co.nz)
  107. # [10:49] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c-cb21e353.1451-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  108. # [11:32] * Joins: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-70.dsl.pipex.com)
  109. # [11:34] * Joins: tndH_ (i=Rob@87.102.21.203)
  110. # [11:34] * tndH_ is now known as tndH
  111. # [11:46] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-131.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
  112. # [11:56] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c-cb21e353.1451-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  113. # [11:56] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c-cb21e353.1451-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  114. # [11:57] * Quits: webben (n=benh@91.84.28.65)
  115. # [12:08] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@233.80-203-100.nextgentel.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  116. # [12:09] * Quits: aroben (n=adamrobe@unaffiliated/aroben)
  117. # [12:35] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-131.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) ("404: Not Found")
  118. # [12:51] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-131.range86-145.btcentralplus.com)
  119. # [12:55] <Lachy> I don't understand Doug's response about Ogg Theora and Dirac not being *necessarily* patent free.
  120. # [12:55] <Lachy> We know they have patents, so it doesn't make sense
  121. # [13:01] <Philip`> Is Dirac affected by known patents?
  122. # [13:02] <Philip`> I know Theora has the ones released by On2, but haven't heard of Dirac relying on royalty-free patents
  123. # [13:03] <Philip`> Oh, apparently the BBC has some patents on Dirac
  124. # [13:05] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c-cb21e353.1451-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  125. # [13:19] * Quits: doublec (n=doublec@203-211-93-38.ue.woosh.co.nz)
  126. # [13:30] * Joins: Ben` (n=Ben@cpc2-hem12-0-0-cust201.lutn.cable.ntl.com)
  127. # [13:31] <Ben`> will HTML 5 really include SQL execution?
  128. # [13:32] <Philip`> That is the current plan
  129. # [13:32] <Ben`> ok, thanks
  130. # [13:33] <Philip`> (like http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/section-sql.html#sql etc)
  131. # [13:42] <othermaciej> Lachy: yes, Doug seemed confused
  132. # [13:42] <othermaciej> Ben`: it will include local database storage with SQL-based access
  133. # [13:42] <othermaciej> or rather, a DOM API for it that embedded scripts can use
  134. # [13:43] <othermaciej> I'm saying it more precisely because "SQL execution in HTML" sounds like a scary security hole when phrased that way
  135. # [13:43] <othermaciej> but it's really the same kind of script-based local storage feature provided by extensions like Google Gears or Adobe Flash
  136. # [13:44] <othermaciej> Ben`: also, if you want to play around with it, WebKit has an experimental implementation: http://webkit.org/blog/126/webkit-does-html5-client-side-database-storage/
  137. # [14:10] * Quits: Ben` (n=Ben@cpc2-hem12-0-0-cust201.lutn.cable.ntl.com) ("Lost terminal")
  138. # [15:17] * Joins: krho (n=krijnhoe@ktk.xs4all.nl)
  139. # [15:17] * Parts: krho (n=krijnhoe@ktk.xs4all.nl)
  140. # [15:58] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  141. # [15:58] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-15-227.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  142. # [16:41] <gsnedders> Hixie: ping
  143. # [16:49] <Hixie> gsnedders: pong, but i'm going offline in about 30 seconds
  144. # [16:49] <gsnedders> Hixie: then I'll ping you later
  145. # [16:49] <gsnedders> :)
  146. # [16:50] <Hixie> k :-)
  147. # [16:50] <Hixie> ttyl
  148. # [16:50] <gsnedders> (or just pong me)
  149. # [17:09] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c-cb21e353.1451-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  150. # [17:45] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c-cb21e353.1451-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  151. # [18:05] * Joins: peepo (n=Jay@host86-153-138-78.range86-153.btcentralplus.com)
  152. # [18:08] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@233.80-203-100.nextgentel.com)
  153. # [19:07] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@c-71-198-185-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  154. # [19:10] * Quits: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-70.dsl.pipex.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  155. # [19:29] * Joins: aroben (n=adamrobe@c-67-160-250-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  156. # [19:42] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@cm-84.215.41.149.getinternet.no) ("Leaving")
  157. # [19:45] * Joins: csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable130.251-202-24.mc.videotron.ca)
  158. # [19:49] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-119-195-74.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  159. # [20:10] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.140)
  160. # [20:30] * Joins: webben (n=benh@91.84.28.65)
  161. # [20:33] * Joins: webben_ (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com)
  162. # [20:49] * Quits: webben (n=benh@91.84.28.65) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  163. # [20:56] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-10-137.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  164. # [20:56] * Quits: peepo (n=Jay@host86-153-138-78.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) ("later")
  165. # [21:05] <gavin> what's the URI for hixie's list of issues he needs to address that was posted to public-html a while ago?
  166. # [21:07] <aroben> gavin: http://www.whatwg.org/issues/
  167. # [21:07] <gavin> thanks
  168. # [21:09] <gavin> hmm, when I try to register, I get "E-mail is not valid or does not correspond to a user who has sent feedback that has not yet been dealt with."
  169. # [21:10] <gavin> but my email is valid, and I have sent some feedback that hasn't been addressed
  170. # [21:10] <gavin> I wonder if my message somehow got lost, or was deemed to be something that doesn't need to be dealt with
  171. # [21:10] * Joins: anne-mac (n=annevk@c529c1b12.cable.wanadoo.nl)
  172. # [21:11] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) ("ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)")
  173. # [21:11] <gavin> (lost by whatever mechanism is used to track feedback, I mean - it's in the list archives)
  174. # [21:12] <Philip`> gavin: You could see if your message is in the issues list
  175. # [21:12] <anne-mac> was it a message to whatwg@whatwg.org or public-html@w3.org ?
  176. # [21:12] <gavin> it doesn't appear to be
  177. # [21:12] <Philip`> and if it is, the corresponding email address should work
  178. # [21:12] <gavin> whatwg@
  179. # [21:13] <anne-mac> and you're using the same address? :)
  180. # [21:13] <gavin> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-September/012459.html
  181. # [21:13] <gavin> yes
  182. # [21:14] <anne-mac> hmm, we need that in the IE-way for <canvas> to work properly...
  183. # [21:14] * anne-mac likes the irony here
  184. # [21:15] <virtuelv> anne-mac: since when did you use a mac?
  185. # [21:15] <anne-mac> i bought one a week ago to fool around
  186. # [21:16] * Quits: aroben (n=adamrobe@unaffiliated/aroben)
  187. # [21:16] <virtuelv> I have stuff to teach you ... over a beer next week
  188. # [21:16] <Philip`> anne-mac: or we need to not define canvas features in terms of img.complete
  189. # [21:17] <anne-mac> sure, but the IE behavior makes sense, imo
  190. # [21:17] <Philip`> Has someone investigated what happens to .complete when you modify .src?
  191. # [21:18] <gavin> I haven't
  192. # [21:18] <gavin> I believe Mozilla's implementation will accureately reflect the current state of the image at all times
  193. # [21:18] <gavin> (modulo the behavior I describe in my post)
  194. # [21:21] <Philip`> gavin: Hmm, that message is definitely not in the issues list
  195. # [21:21] <Philip`> You should poke Hixie about it :-)
  196. # [21:22] <Philip`> (I've had at least one fall into his spam filter)
  197. # [21:22] <anne-mac> I had several of those
  198. # [21:22] <anne-mac> that we somehow discovered quick enough, not sure if there are more
  199. # [21:23] <anne-mac> then again, not sure how much I care about some of those two year old comments
  200. # [21:24] * gsnedders probably should've asked Hixie when he intended to be back
  201. # [21:30] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@140.80-202-68.nextgentel.com)
  202. # [21:36] * Quits: anne-mac (n=annevk@c529c1b12.cable.wanadoo.nl) (Remote closed the connection)
  203. # [21:36] * Joins: anne-mac (n=annevk@c529c1b12.cable.wanadoo.nl)
  204. # [21:40] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@207.47.36.190.static.nextweb.net)
  205. # [21:41] * Quits: anne-mac (n=annevk@c529c1b12.cable.wanadoo.nl) (Remote closed the connection)
  206. # [21:47] * Joins: aroben (n=adamrobe@c-67-160-250-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  207. # [21:49] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  208. # [22:01] * Quits: aroben (n=adamrobe@unaffiliated/aroben)
  209. # [22:12] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  210. # [22:18] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c-cb21e353.1451-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  211. # [22:21] * Joins: aroben (n=adamrobe@c-67-160-250-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  212. # [22:36] * Quits: aroben (n=adamrobe@unaffiliated/aroben)
  213. # [22:37] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@207.47.36.190.static.nextweb.net) ("The computer fell asleep")
  214. # [22:41] * Joins: aroben (n=aroben@c-67-160-250-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  215. # [23:03] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-119-195-74.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  216. # [23:03] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c-cb21e353.1451-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  217. # [23:04] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-40-63.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  218. # [23:23] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)")
  219. # [23:28] * Joins: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-70.dsl.pipex.com)
  220. # [23:55] <gsnedders> Hixie: back yet?
  221. # [23:58] * Quits: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-70.dsl.pipex.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  222. # Session Close: Sun Dec 02 00:00:00 2007

The end :)