/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2007-12-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Dec 02 00:00:00 2007
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  8. # [00:34] * Philip` wonders who set up http://hixietracker.blogspot.com/
  9. # [00:34] <gsnedders> me! choose me!
  10. # [00:35] <Philip`> (They ought to fix the non-escaping of the title "Re: [whatwg] <BIG> Element" since it makes the rest of the page big)
  11. # [00:35] <gsnedders> Philip`: isn't Hixie awesome enough to deserve that, though?
  12. # [00:35] <Hixie> gavin: your e-mail is one of a small number of e-mails that i received during a small window of time where dreamhost was down and the e-mail is only in my gmail inbox, not my imap box
  13. # [00:36] <Lachy> Philip`, IIRC, I think the hixietracker was set up by Mark Pilgrim
  14. # [00:36] <Lachy> it was mentioned in one of these IRC channels a few months ago
  15. # [00:36] * gsnedders waits to be quoted out of context and claimed that he goes along with anything that Hixie says
  16. # [00:36] <gavin> Hixie: ah
  17. # [00:36] <gsnedders> Hixie: I guess your back then?
  18. # [00:36] <Hixie> gsnedders: heya
  19. # [00:37] <Hixie> gsnedders: sure, for a few minutes :-)
  20. # [00:37] <gavin> Hixie: should I resend it or something?
  21. # [00:37] <Hixie> gavin: if you want to vote on it and if you don't mind resending, sure
  22. # [00:37] <Hixie> but i won't lose it if you don't
  23. # [00:38] <Hixie> (lose the e-mail that is)
  24. # [00:38] <Hixie> (some might say i've already "lost it")
  25. # [00:38] <gavin> ok, that's all I care about :)
  26. # [00:38] <Philip`> Lachy: Okay - I don't remember that at all, and can't find any search results, and it looks like Hixie added the link to it on the wiki
  27. # [00:38] <gsnedders> Hixie: not as badly as me
  28. # [00:38] * gsnedders points Hixie at PM
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  30. # [00:39] <Philip`> It reminds me of the Santa Tracker except without the presents
  31. # [00:39] <Lachy> the discussion occurred around the time the link was added to the wiki, but I couldn't find it in the logs either. Maybe Krijn was offline at the time
  32. # [00:40] <gsnedders> Philip`: Santa is real kthxbai
  33. # [00:41] <Philip`> Lachy: I guess I was offline too since it's not in my logs either :-(
  34. # [00:42] <gavin> I can't find it in my logs of this channel
  35. # [00:43] <gavin> but I think I only have logs here since december 2006
  36. # [00:43] <Lachy> strangley, not in mine either, AFAICT
  37. # [00:43] <Lachy> though I don't have a complete set of logs
  38. # [00:43] <Philip`> The wiki change was Sep 25, which sounds recent until I realise the year has passed far quicker than I expected
  39. # [00:44] <Philip`> Maybe it was a different channel somewhere?
  40. # [00:44] <gsnedders> wait… it's Dec?
  41. # [00:44] <Lachy> I'm sure it was either #whatwg or #html-wg
  42. # [00:44] <gsnedders> that's maddening.
  43. # [00:45] * gsnedders realises what that means: mocks next month!
  44. # [00:45] <Lachy> yes, gsnedders, December usually begins on December 1st every year
  45. # [00:46] <gsnedders> oh. I thought it started on December 31st.
  46. # [00:46] <Philip`> I think your calendar must be upside down
  47. # [00:47] <gsnedders> Ah. Maybe I should get it out the drawer its in?
  48. # [00:47] <Philip`> You might also want to check that your clocks are turning clockwise, to rule out the possibility of a time reversal
  49. # [00:48] <gsnedders> My sister had a clock that went the wrong way once. I missed the start of school because of it once.
  50. # [00:49] <Hixie> wow
  51. # [00:49] <Hixie> w3c actually censored me
  52. # [00:49] <Lachy> what?
  53. # [00:49] <Hixie> well that's a first
  54. # [00:49] <Lachy> where?
  55. # [00:50] <Hixie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2007Nov/0104.html
  56. # [00:50] <Hixie> dean complained that i replied to his private message by cc'ing the archives
  57. # [00:50] <Hixie> and w3c removed my message from the archives
  58. # [00:51] <Lachy> woah! Luckily, i still have a copy in my personal archive :-)
  59. # [00:51] <gavin> I noticed that earlier
  60. # [00:51] <gavin> I wish I'd kept a copy :)
  61. # [00:52] <Philip`> Lachy: www-archive is meant to be a "Mail-to-web gateway", so subscribing to the list and using it for mail-to-mail is cheating :-p
  62. # [00:54] <MikeSmith> Hixie - fwiw, I wasn't aware that message had been removed. They were supposed to get your OK to remove it.
  63. # [00:55] <MikeSmith> "The need for editing or excising material contained in an archived message is addressed only when the sender of the archived message requests it. Carefully documented exceptions may be considered."
  64. # [00:55] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Mail/ArchiveEditingPolicy
  65. # [00:56] <Lachy> Philip`, I subscribed to it since I noticed there was a lot of interesting off-list discussion going on there
  66. # [00:56] <gavin> I suppose you could argue that Dean was the sender of a message that was archived
  67. # [00:57] <gavin> (indirectly through hixie's reply)
  68. # [00:58] <MikeSmith> gavin - yeah, I suppose
  69. # [00:58] <Hixie> well it's now archived at http://damowmow.com/playground/archives/reply-to-dean-edridge.html
  70. # [00:59] <Lachy> LOL! I was just about to suggest that you archive it elsewhere
  71. # [01:04] <gsnedders> so, us follows of Hixie…
  72. # [01:04] <gsnedders> *followers
  73. # [01:04] <Philip`> Hixie: It's a shame that the change in month breaks the W3C mail archive's reply-linking feature
  74. # [01:08] <gsnedders> g'nite y'all
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  76. # [01:15] <Hixie> Philip`: yeah
  77. # [01:17] <Dashiva> Isn't there a three-month view?
  78. # [01:17] <Hixie> depends on the list
  79. # [01:20] <gavin> depends on the number of messages per month, I thought
  80. # [01:20] <gavin> i.e. I thought it was automatic based on number of messages, instead of configured manually
  81. # [01:20] <Hixie> no
  82. # [01:20] <Hixie> manual
  83. # [01:20] <gavin> ah, ok
  84. # [01:21] <Hixie> gotta go again
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  87. # [01:45] <othermaciej> hey, I got reddit karma points for defending html5: http://programming.reddit.com/info/61vbd/comments/
  88. # [01:45] <othermaciej> (the thread was going much the other way before my post)
  89. # [01:53] <Dashiva> "I say let Adobe's Air & Google's Gears work out the kinks, then maybe a few years down the road (once the issues with the core languages are settled) go about implementing them."
  90. # [01:55] <Dashiva> Although this one was more convincing: "html5 is a joke anyways and will never be adopted or supported and if it is I will get an ak 47 and find a rooftop"
  91. # [01:55] <othermaciej> heh
  92. # [01:55] <Philip`> Don't AK-47s work just as effectively at ground level?
  93. # [01:55] <Dashiva> Why are people so unpatriotic? Can't they use proper western firearms?
  94. # [01:59] <jwalden> the day of the tommy gun has passed
  95. # [02:00] <bradee-oh> http://www.ak-47.us/USmade.php <--- AK-47 varieties made in the United States
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  97. # [02:06] <othermaciej> US military issue firearms are generally much harder to maintain than the AK-47
  98. # [02:06] <othermaciej> which is why they are not used as much by guerilla armies and criminal gangs and the like
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  100. # [02:08] <Philip`> The US military should develop a really bad gun, then make it easy to obtain and put a huge PR campaign behind it, so the guerilla armies and criminal gangs think it's excellent and buy lots of it
  101. # [02:09] <Dashiva> Make a gun that calls the police when you fire it!
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  104. # [02:13] <Philip`> Dashiva: The problem with that plan is that it would have to have something like a mobile phone embedded in the gun, and prolonged use might lead to excess levels of radiation, which would be a health hazard
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  106. # [02:15] <Dashiva> It's three mile island all over again
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  125. # [07:06] <Hixie> that's odd
  126. # [07:06] <Hixie> i posted a huge comment to sam ruby's blog the other day
  127. # [07:06] <Hixie> and it hasn't appeared
  128. # [08:27] * om_afk is now known as othermaciej
  129. # [08:31] <othermaciej> mine appeared
  130. # [08:38] <othermaciej> I just posted a slightly mean reply on his blog
  131. # [09:00] <Hixie> another?
  132. # [09:06] * bradee-oh is now known as bradee-goesToBed
  133. # [09:11] <othermaciej> I didn't think the first one was that mean
  134. # [09:16] <Hixie> indeed, hence my question
  135. # [09:18] <othermaciej> so, yes, another reply
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  158. # [16:35] <hendry> hsivonen_: don't understand this transparent error http://validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.natalian.org%2Ftest%2Fhtml5-media-mp3.html
  159. # [16:36] <Dashiva> transparent?
  160. # [16:36] * anne-mac gets that <audio> can't occur in <body>
  161. # [16:41] <hendry> anne-mac: really? not <body>? even with controls?
  162. # [16:42] <hendry> same goes for video I expect http://validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.natalian.org%2Ftest%2Fhtml5-media-ogg.html
  163. # [16:43] <anne-mac> yes
  164. # [16:44] <anne-mac> needs to be inside a paragraph like element, such as <p> or <figure>
  165. # [16:46] <hendry> anne-mac: ok, fine
  166. # [16:46] <hendry> though http://validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.natalian.org%2Ftest%2Fhtml5-media-ogg.html
  167. # [16:46] <hendry> seems to expect children on the video element
  168. # [16:48] <hendry> i don't understnad this 'transparent' business
  169. # [16:50] <Dashiva> Looks like fallback
  170. # [16:51] <Dashiva> Basically says "If you replace the element with its transparent children" which is essentially what is supposed to happen with fallback, as I understand it
  171. # [16:51] <hsivonen_> hendry: transparent means that the content model is block if the parent's content model was block. et.
  172. # [16:51] <hsivonen_> etc.
  173. # [16:51] <hendry> so it want's me to put something in there, like "You failed to playback the media"
  174. # [16:52] <hsivonen_> hendry: also, IIRC, there's a spec bug near here and I've implemented the spec pedentically with the bug
  175. # [16:52] <hsivonen_> hendry: the bug is that if the parent is figure, the transparent content model sucks and you have to put an <img> there
  176. # [16:53] <Dashiva> "When a transparent or semi-transparent element has no parent" <-- How does that work, unless documentElement is transparent?
  177. # [16:53] <hsivonen_> Dashiva: document fragments I guess
  178. # [16:54] <hsivonen_> hendry: hmm. interesting. I don't know why you are getting the error you are getting
  179. # [16:55] <Dashiva> Maybe you need a container (div,p) inside it to hold the (non-existent) content
  180. # [16:56] <hendry> oh gosh. i hope this block, inline stuff becomes a whole lot easier
  181. # [16:56] * Philip` too :-)
  182. # [16:57] <hsivonen_> hendry: there's a chance you are seeing a validator bug. I'm not sure. I checked the schema and it isn't obvious to me why you get the error you are getting
  183. # [16:57] <hsivonen_> oohh!
  184. # [16:57] <hsivonen_> I have a bug!
  185. # [16:59] <hsivonen_> hendry: I'm fixing it now
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  187. # [17:00] <Dashiva> Now that's customer service
  188. # [17:00] <hendry> hsivonen_: :)
  189. # [17:01] * hsivonen_ is now known as hsivonen
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  192. # [17:04] <hsivonen> and I should remove significant inline checks as well...
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  194. # [17:09] <hsivonen> hendry: fixed
  195. # [17:09] <hsivonen> hendry: I'll remove the significant inline thing in due course
  196. # [17:20] <hsivonen> hendry: now fixed
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  198. # [17:20] <hsivonen> hendry: thanks for finding this
  199. # [17:29] <hendry> hsivonen: thanks for the fix :)
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  202. # [18:56] <gsnedders> Hixie: I'm wondering whether to integrate Content-Type sniffing into my spec, as it really does have an effect on what is effectively in Content-Type
  203. # [18:57] <gsnedders> Hixie: you got any thoughts on whether it should or should not be there?
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  226. # [23:32] <hendry> i've written a web app using WF2, http://letter2.dabase.com/
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The end :)