/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-01-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jan 16 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:01] <Philip`> Oh, it clearly is since it's just a linear combination
  4. # [00:02] <Philip`> The arc/arcTo definitions are broken, though...
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  6. # [00:05] <Philip`> (and rect)
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  8. # [00:15] <Philip`> Hmm, Safari resets the path when you do restore() - I'd forgotten about that bug :-/
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  10. # [00:18] <Philip`> Also, it's funny to watch Opera attempting to do arcTo
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  19. # [00:52] <jwalden> Hixie: you sure in test 5 you didn't mean for |substr(0, 1)| to be |substr(-1, 1)|?
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  21. # [01:07] <kig> Philip`: write an arc/arcTo implementation that uses bezier curves :|
  22. # [01:08] <kig> the solution to all problems is to plaster over the crackrock that the world gives
  23. # [01:09] <kig> css differences between browsers? roll your own css with js and position:absolute
  24. # [01:09] <Philip`> Has anybody written a JS interpreter in pure JS?
  25. # [01:09] <kig> i wish
  26. # [01:10] <kig> would settle for a js-to-browser-js -compiler too
  27. # [01:10] <webben_> I thought someone had.
  28. # [01:10] <Philip`> There's Narcissus but I think that requires some SpiderMonkey extensions
  29. # [01:10] <webben_> But maybe that's a false memory.
  30. # [01:10] <Philip`> http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/js/narcissus/jsparse.js etc
  31. # [01:10] <Lachy> it'd cool if someone wrote a JS interpeter in LOLCode, and then ran that in the LOLCode interpreter that's written in JS :-)
  32. # [01:11] <Philip`> __defineProperty__? What does that do?
  33. # [01:12] <jgraham> If you wrote a js interpreter in python you could compile it to js PyPy, the python interpreter written in python...
  34. # [01:12] <Philip`> http://www.nabble.com/__defineProperty__-by-default-in-SpiderMonkey-td2853378.html - oh, it's only there if you #define NARCISSUS, which is cheating
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  36. # [01:19] <Philip`> There is (or used to be) a JS code-generating backend for Pugs (the Perl 6 compiler written in Haskell)
  37. # [01:19] <Philip`> but "hello world" was about 1MB of JS, and it didn't work in any browser :-(
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  39. # [01:22] * Philip` is reminded that he really needs to finish his JS HTML5 parser
  40. # [01:23] <Philip`> (Actually I need the Perl one more than JS, but the JS one is more fun)
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  46. # [02:00] <Philip`> Is IDL "float" 32-bit or 64-bit?
  47. # [02:07] <jwalden> 32-bit
  48. # [02:07] <jwalden> can you guess why it's called 'double'? ;-)
  49. # [02:07] <Philip`> Ah, thanks
  50. # [02:08] <Philip`> I couldn't find anything in HTML5 using 'double', so it was possible that 'float' was just referring generically to a large floating point type :-)
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  54. # [02:19] * Philip` wonders if he should send comments to public-html in attempt to increase the SNR
  55. # [02:19] <Philip`> s/ / an /
  56. # [02:19] <jwalden> Philip`: well, in that matter, it might just be generic -- just note that JS numbers are traditional doubles
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  58. # [02:28] <Philip`> jwalden: I guess it doesn't matter much for the case I was looking at, since it all gets converted to 16.16 fixed-point anyway
  59. # [02:28] <jwalden> heh, no :-)
  60. # [02:31] * Philip` wonders who thought 64K coordinate space units would be enough for anyone
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  65. # [02:54] <Hixie> jwalden: oops, fixed. i changed the text in instructions.inc and forgot to update the test.
  66. # [02:55] <jwalden> Hixie: incidentally, I don't hugely care any more for 31/32 now that you've made them reset and Firefox passes, but -- I can't help wondering how you're reading the HTML DOM spec to allow click() to work on type="text"; I just don't see it
  67. # [02:55] <jwalden> it seems clear-cut to me that it only works on the specific enumerated types
  68. # [02:56] <Hixie> the spec says "Simulate a mouse-click. For INPUT elements whose type attribute has one of the following values: "button", "checkbox", "radio", "reset", or "submit".".
  69. # [02:56] <Hixie> the first sentence is an imperative statement saying what the UA must do if the method is invoked
  70. # [02:56] <Hixie> the second sentence is an informative statement of intent.
  71. # [02:56] <jwalden> shudder
  72. # [02:56] <jwalden> but I guess I can see
  73. # [02:57] <jwalden> I'm sure if you'd written it this wouldn't be anywhere close to ambiguous :-)
  74. # [02:59] * Philip` would still suggest reviewing the spec for ambiguity rather than assuming Hixie is perfect :-)
  75. # [02:59] <Hixie> yeah well
  76. # [02:59] <Hixie> that spec has issues
  77. # [02:59] <Hixie> Philip`: indeed!
  78. # [03:00] <jwalden> oh, certainly :-)
  79. # [03:00] <Hixie> good lord, this xhtml nonsense is getting out of hand
  80. # [03:00] <jwalden> I think I've referred to specs more in the last week than in the entire last month
  81. # [03:01] <Hixie> heh
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  90. # [04:36] <Hixie> seems you can crash Safari by doing a shadowBlur that's more than about 10000px.
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  92. # [05:02] <jwalden> fun
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  116. # [10:02] <Philip`> Hixie: When implementing shadows for FF, I just clamped shadowBlur to 2000 (i.e. about 600 pixels radius) since that seemed a sensible way to avoid using gigabytes of memory for a large blur
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  130. # [11:00] <zcorpan> http://www.ytqm.org/2008/01/16/whatyouseeiswhatthefuck/
  131. # [11:03] <hsivonen> zcorpan: redirects me to an anti-spyware scam
  132. # [11:03] <Lachy> hsivonen, doesn't do that for me
  133. # [11:04] <Lachy> hsivonen, the page contains this comic strip http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/07jul/uf010526.gif
  134. # [11:05] <zcorpan> and, translated text equivalent underneath the image... try this one http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ytqm.org%2F2008%2F01%2F16%2Fwhatyouseeiswhatthefuck%2F
  135. # [11:07] <hsivonen> that one shows a NSFW penis enlargement ad
  136. # [11:07] <hsivonen> clearly a quality site
  137. # [11:07] <zcorpan> lol
  138. # [11:12] <virtuelv> hehe
  139. # [11:13] <zcorpan> Hixie: hmm, in test 10 you test that Attr nodes have child nodes. that's something i'd like to change in the dom spec actually
  140. # [11:14] <Hixie> isn't it interoperably implemented already?
  141. # [11:14] <zcorpan> not in opera
  142. # [11:14] <zcorpan> or ie
  143. # [11:16] <hsivonen> what's the point of attribute nodes?
  144. # [11:16] <annevk> it's for entityreference nodes
  145. # [11:16] <annevk> which must die
  146. # [11:16] <zcorpan> hsivonen: more to the point, what's the point of attribute nodes having its value duplicated as a child text node?
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  153. # [12:07] <hsivonen> mpt: Coming up with a correct positive wording for "Don't override." is hard
  154. # [12:08] <hsivonen> mpt: Since the positive wording would be along the lines of "Use encoding info from transfer protocol or the document."
  155. # [12:08] <hsivonen> which is long
  156. # [12:08] <mpt> "As set by the server/page"?
  157. # [12:09] <hsivonen> ok
  158. # [12:09] <hsivonen> thanks
  159. # [12:09] <mpt> yw
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  165. # [13:30] <zcorpan> Hixie: in order to allow us to fix <link> ignoring content-type in a way that doesn't introduce more differences between quirks and non-quirks, could you perhaps change the test to use image/gif or something instead of text/html?
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  170. # [15:45] <hsivonen> which one is worse: cloning a lot of DOM text nodes or concatenating as many JS strings?
  171. # [15:46] <hsivonen> say I have 1500 DOM strings that I want to copy into a text area
  172. # [15:46] <hsivonen> should I build a concatenation of the strings and put it into the text area
  173. # [15:46] <hsivonen> or insert each string without modification as a text node of its own into the textarea?
  174. # [15:50] <gavin> by "1500 DOM strings" do you mean "1500 DOM text nodes"?
  175. # [15:51] <gavin> my gut feeling is that the JS string concatenation approach would perform better than any kind of DOM manipulation
  176. # [15:53] <gavin> assuming you mean something like |for each (textnode in nodes) total += textnode.textContent; textarea.value = total;| vs. |for each (textnode in nodes) textarea.appendChild(textnode.cloneNode());|
  177. # [15:54] <zcorpan> hsivonen: iirc, string concatenation is horrobly slow in ie; it's at least an order of magnitude faster to append the strings to an array and then do .join('')
  178. # [15:54] <zcorpan> i don't know about cloning though
  179. # [15:55] <zcorpan> s/horrobly/horribly/
  180. # [15:55] <hsivonen> gavin: yes, I mean 1500 DOM text node and total += textnode.textContent
  181. # [15:55] <hsivonen> zcorpan: ok.
  182. # [15:56] <hsivonen> thanks. I guess this means that I should collect the strings in an array and then join
  183. # [15:56] <zcorpan> i think you also need to set .value instead of inserting child nodes for compat with ... ie i think
  184. # [15:56] <gavin> yeah, there was a mozilla bug about improving that kind of JS string concatenation
  185. # [15:56] <gavin> iincluding workarounds just like zcorpan mentioned
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  187. # [15:58] <gavin> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56940#c14
  188. # [15:58] <hsivonen> thanks
  189. # [15:59] <hsivonen> I hope textContent is smart about the single text child case
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  261. # Session Close: Thu Jan 17 00:00:00 2008

The end :)