/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-01-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Jan 20 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:01] <jruderman> hah
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  9. # [01:00] <Philip`> (Ooh, Safari on Wine - that's quite useful)
  10. # [01:02] <kig> http://dark.fhtr.org/safari_on_wine.jpg and then it crashes D:
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  12. # [01:04] <Philip`> It crashed for me before I installed all the corefonts, but now it seems happy enough
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  14. # [01:11] <Philip`> (It is quite hideous and also slow, though)
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  17. # [01:20] <Philip`> Argh, I wrote a test with arcTo and Firefox actually passed it :-(
  18. # [01:23] * jwalden snickers
  19. # [02:34] <Philip`> Hmm, even KHTML does the peculiar http://tinyurl.com/2bfvog thing
  20. # [02:43] <SadEagle> Philip`: I cna probably get the guy wrote the relevant code here.
  21. # [02:44] <Philip`> SadEagle: Firefox and Safari do the same, so the problem is working out how the spec should say to do that
  22. # [02:45] <SadEagle> note: I have no idea of what in particular you're referring to here
  23. # [02:47] <Philip`> Ah - the issue is that a straight line with a wide stroke, with some suitable transformations before doing the stroke, draws the stroke as a skewed rectangle
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  26. # [03:17] * Philip` gets really tired of hitting the 'y' and 'n' keys in Safari
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  29. # [03:45] <Philip`> http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/results.html
  30. # [03:45] <Philip`> now with fewer incorrect tests, though still some
  31. # [03:48] * SadEagle winces as he sees the effects of that load event bug
  32. # [03:49] <Philip`> Where are the effects?
  33. # [03:51] <SadEagle> hmm, never mind. somehow it didn't show up :-)
  34. # [03:52] <SadEagle> thanks for generating this.
  35. # [03:52] <Philip`> I had to run the tests in groups of 100, else it seemed to fail to load some of them
  36. # [03:53] <Philip`> I'm not sure if Safari's shadow rendering is worse than when I first tested it, or if I'm just being harsher and complaining that it's off by a single pixel line
  37. # [03:53] <harri> Philip`: thanks from me for the inclusion, too.
  38. # [03:53] <Philip`> s/complaining that/failing it because/
  39. # [03:54] <Philip`> harri: Konqueror crashed horribly when I last tried doing canvas things with it (probably months ago), so I'm happy that it's able to be successfully tested now :-)
  40. # [03:55] <SadEagle> Philip`: I completely rewrote the state code, and fredrikh completely rewrote the graphics code since then. Before, it was a half-assed port of the Apple tree circa 2004.
  41. # [03:56] <harri> seeing independant tests being run certainly helps to become productive
  42. # [03:56] <SadEagle> Philip`: oh, BTW, do you have any tests that scale the canvas element with CSS? :-)
  43. # [03:56] <SadEagle> Philip`: I must thank you for the tests, BTW, they were a huge help in getting stuff working
  44. # [03:56] <Philip`> SadEagle: http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/size.attributes.style.html is the only one, and that doesn't test that the rendered output is correct
  45. # [03:57] * Philip` isn't sure what else could be usefully tested for scaled canvases
  46. # [03:59] <Philip`> (I suppose http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/83/play.xhtml set to "Tiny" could count as a way of testing scaled canvases...)
  47. # [03:59] <SadEagle> Philip`: fredrikh noticed gtkwebkit wasn't scaling right when we were discussing some performance stuff
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  49. # [04:08] <SadEagle> Philip`: may be canvas width = 50, height = 50, draw green rect with 0, 0, 50, 50 and scale with CSS to 100, 100?
  50. # [04:09] <Philip`> SadEagle: I've just tried that, and see the problem
  51. # [04:13] <Philip`> SadEagle: Added http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/2d.scaled.html (but not updated results.html because I'm lazy)
  52. # [04:14] <SadEagle> hrmhmh. when the heck did I break it? :-)
  53. # [04:15] <Philip`> Oh, I'd only tested in gtkwebkit and didn't realise it was broken elsewhere too
  54. # [04:16] <SadEagle> well, it's -supposed- to work in konq, but apparently doesn't. funny, since things are sort of designed to be able to handle this sort of setup
  55. # [04:16] <Philip`> At least in WebKit it does draw something
  56. # [04:17] * Philip` needs to fix all the places where he's not correctly referencing the spec
  57. # [04:20] <Philip`> ...after fixing the places where I'm probably contradicting the spec
  58. # [04:20] <Philip`> (like I haven't looked at pattern transforms, and they're probably affected by recent changes)
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  60. # [04:25] <SadEagle> hmm, much of the nodefilter/nodeiterator stuff in acid3 looks bogus to me
  61. # [04:30] <takkaria> SadEagle: so you're on the khtml team?
  62. # [04:34] <SadEagle> takkaria: yes.
  63. # [04:36] <takkaria> SadEagle: I'd read somewhere that some people just want to port back webkit as a kpart and dump khtml... I assume this isn't something you're planning on? I don't follow the community closely but would quite like links to somewhere where the situation regarding the forks is explained
  64. # [04:38] <SadEagle> takkaria: we might do a merge of webcore sources into khtml kpart. we might not. Some 3rd parties may ship a webkit kpart regardless of our opinion, however.
  65. # [04:38] <SadEagle> takkaria: let's just say that things got kinda ugly, and leave it at that.
  66. # [04:40] <takkaria> right, sounds like the kind of thing that's not easily summarised. thanks for your time. :)
  67. # [04:41] <SadEagle> thanks for asking.
  68. # [04:42] <SadEagle> it's kind of funny, though. One of the best reasons for using WebCore is that we have limited manpower. But it's also one of the reasons that makes using it very hard, since doing proper integration would be quite time/resource consuming, and we still have to maintain stuff, and fix bugs in the overall infrastructure.
  69. # [04:45] <Philip`> You could become an OS X user and then it wouldn't be a problem at all
  70. # [04:45] <takkaria> heh
  71. # [04:46] <takkaria> I know the kind of situation you're in, I have it in one of my projects, on significantly smaller scale
  72. # [04:51] <fredrikh> Philip`: indeed, thanks very much for those tests, and for including us in the results :)
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  75. # [05:24] <SadEagle> Philip`: fun, your 2d.scaled works part of the time...something is not being marked dirty as it should be..
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  88. # [07:26] <SadEagle> Philip`: uff. fixed. thanks for that testcase, found some really stupid stuff due to it
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  100. # [12:12] <heycam`> Hixie, shepazu was talking to you earlier about svg acid test submissions? it seems various svg dom method calls don't return anything useful when used on a document created by DOMImplementation.createDocument().
  101. # [12:13] <heycam`> and while those calls should work, i think for the purpose of demonstrating the particular dom interfaces being tested, it'd be good to go the iframe route
  102. # [12:13] <Hixie> yeah, that's a bug
  103. # [12:13] <heycam`> i.e., could you include an <iframe> with an empty svg document?
  104. # [12:13] <Hixie> i think you misunderstand how acid tests work :-)
  105. # [12:13] <Hixie> the more broken things you rely on for the test, the better :-)
  106. # [12:13] <heycam`> heh
  107. # [12:14] <heycam`> so you'd rather a submission like that then?
  108. # [12:14] <Hixie> sure
  109. # [12:14] <heycam`> ok then
  110. # [12:14] <Hixie> i can always tweak it later if necessary
  111. # [12:14] <heycam`> righto
  112. # [12:15] <heycam`> (btw doug's gonna coordinate a few tests from us svg guys and send them in to you)
  113. # [12:15] <Hixie> it's so sad, i've received very few acid3 test submissions, and most of those that i have received have fundamentally missed at least one of the rules
  114. # [12:15] <heycam`> hmm
  115. # [12:15] <Hixie> (different rules each time)
  116. # [12:16] <heycam`> do you have enough for the 10 at least? :)
  117. # [12:16] <Hixie> not even close
  118. # [12:16] <Hixie> (and it's 16 :-( )
  119. # [12:16] <heycam`> ah
  120. # [12:16] <Hixie> someone submitted 11 tests... for XMLHttpRequest
  121. # [12:16] <Hixie> which isn't even in LC yet
  122. # [12:16] <heycam`> :(
  123. # [12:16] <Hixie> let alone CR in 2004
  124. # [12:17] <heycam`> i didn't have much time during the week, so i've really only been working on it the last few days
  125. # [12:17] <heycam`> so just one test from me
  126. # [12:17] <Hixie> every little bit helps :-)
  127. # [12:17] * heycam` enjoys tests involving non plane 0 characters
  128. # [12:19] <Hixie> i got two tests from someone called Sylvain which look solid
  129. # [12:29] <jwalden> Hixie: think that's syp_, Sylvain Pasche
  130. # [12:30] <Hixie> yup
  131. # [12:30] <harri> Hixie: one question: do you expect the numbering of tests to remain stable?
  132. # [12:31] * jwalden thought the numbering stable enough to remove the note from <http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pNgBCwWdyRTT2JeiZn4B2Yw>
  133. # [12:31] <harri> I'm asking because I wonder whether it makes sense to refer to tests by number right now (when talking to other developers, noting down info)
  134. # [12:31] <Hixie> harri: not until the test is finished, no
  135. # [12:32] <Hixie> http://chanweiyee.blogspot.com/2008/01/removal-of-ogg-vorbis-and-theora-from.html is hilarious
  136. # [12:32] <harri> Hixie: ok. I'll refrain from adding comments to C++ then
  137. # [12:32] <Hixie> "Nokia and Apple have privately pushed to remove Ogg in HTML5."
  138. # [12:32] <Hixie> PRIVATELY?
  139. # [12:32] <Hixie> nokia published a position paper!
  140. # [12:32] <Hixie> how much more public can you get!
  141. # [12:32] <Dashiva> They didn't mail it to me!
  142. # [12:32] <Hixie> and then the change was twittered, e-mailed to TWO public lists, posted on slashdot, digg, and reddit!
  143. # [12:33] <Hixie> what more can i possibly do to make this public!
  144. # [12:35] <Dashiva> Door to door announcements
  145. # [12:35] <heycam`> Hixie, where's that test submission test page again?
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  147. # [12:35] <heycam`> nm found it
  148. # [12:39] <othermaciej> Hixie: I had a good WebKit-only CSS1 bug but hyatt went and fixed it
  149. # [12:39] <othermaciej> (granted, I goaded him into doing so)
  150. # [12:40] <heycam`> btw are we not meant to use those assertEquals() and assert() and fail() functions? they're not available from the test development console page.
  151. # [12:41] <Hixie> heycam`: that level of detail doesn't matter, i'll rewrite the tests to use those probably anyway
  152. # [12:41] <Hixie> nn
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  155. # [13:26] <webben> Re: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Jan/0143.html (required="false") attribute in ASP.net): it's also worth noting that the ARIA draft likewise uses required="false" (http://www.w3.org/TR/aria-state/#required)
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  160. # [14:19] <Richardigel> hello! i love html5! used it already and tweaked my personal copy of squeak seaside to produce a flavor of html5 which currently works already with browsers.
  161. # [14:20] <Richardigel> i just would have wished the FORM section of html5 to have useful content.
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  163. # [14:24] <Philip`> Richardigel: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/ is currently where the form things are
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  165. # [14:29] <zcorpan> webben: that's aria-required="false"
  166. # [14:30] <zcorpan> the current aria drafts are wrong
  167. # [14:30] <webben> zcorpan: ah okay
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  171. # [16:05] <Richardigel> did you know that logging and publishing the chat is legally dangerous? at least in German law, that is forbidden without permission of that ones that are being logged.
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  176. # [18:18] <Philip`> I really wish I could say <select selected="b"><option value="a">A <option value="b">B ...</select>
  177. # [18:20] * Philip` gives up wishing and writes ugly stuff like <option value="a"[% IF thing.value == "a" %] selected[% END %]> instead
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  180. # [18:57] <hsivonen> Philip`: http://html5.validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fmxr.mozilla.org%2Fmozilla%2Fsource%2Fcontent%2Fcanvas%2Ftest%2Ftest_2d.composite.image.copy.html%3Fforce%3D1&showsource=yes fixed. thanks
  181. # [18:57] <hsivonen> (copypaste error)
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  183. # [18:59] <Richardigel> wouldn't it be about time to take http://whattf.org/ off the net?
  184. # [19:00] <Philip`> hsivonen: Thanks!
  185. # [19:00] <hsivonen> Richardigel: why?
  186. # [19:01] <hsivonen> the front page could use an update, though
  187. # [19:01] <Richardigel> hsivonen: the joke's getting old.
  188. # [19:02] <Dashiva> It's new to people who haven't seen it before :)
  189. # [19:03] <Richardigel> right.
  190. # [19:19] <hsivonen> hmm. http://validator.w3.org/mobile/alpha?docAddr=http%3A%2F%2Fvalidator.nu%2F
  191. # [19:36] <Dashiva> First they say there's no doctype, and then they start reporting HTML errors anyway
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  200. # [20:48] <Philip`> http://validator.w3.org/mobile/alpha?docAddr=http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/83/play.xhtml - it doesn't seem to mind me using <canvas>
  201. # [21:06] <SadEagle> Philip`: thanks again for that scale testcase, if you didn't see my previous thanks in the backlog
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  205. # [21:56] <Philip`> SadEagle: Let me know if you have other bugs that could be tested for easily :-)
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  207. # [22:19] <harri> Philip`: you had problems with the realiability for downloading pages with konqueror?
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  209. # [22:28] <Philip`> harri: I think the only problem was that it tried downloading dozens of iframes at once, and the web server didn't like that and returned errors
  210. # [22:33] <SadEagle> harri: we have a problem in that if we don't know the mimetype (some objects, all iframes), we start a new KRun to get it... Which on a testcase page can result in 100s of connections
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  212. # [23:01] * Philip` wonders if there are any known problems in existing browsers with nested <form>s
  213. # [23:01] <Philip`> (when they're created via DOM manipulation, rather than through the HTML parser)
  214. # [23:01] <Philip`> (Some minimal tests seem to work in IE6/FF2/O9, at least)
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  217. # [23:23] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@cm-84.215.54.100.getinternet.no)
  218. # [23:26] * MacDomeOut is now known as MacDome
  219. # [23:32] * Joins: weinig_ (n=weinig@17.116.195.152)
  220. # [23:37] <annevk> Philip`, using XML might be more easier
  221. # [23:41] <Philip`> annevk: Not when I need to work in IE6
  222. # [23:41] <annevk> good point
  223. # [23:47] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@c-71-198-176-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  224. # [23:50] * Quits: Richardigel (n=igel@f051096186.adsl.alicedsl.de)
  225. # [23:51] * weinig_ is now known as weinig
  226. # [23:56] <gsnedders> RFC: http://pastebin.ca/866821
  227. # [23:58] <SadEagle> gsnedders: is #25 missing a "not"?
  228. # Session Close: Mon Jan 21 00:00:00 2008

The end :)