/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-04-09 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Wed Apr 09 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:07] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.103.64)
  4. # [00:07] * Quits: heycam` (n=cam@210-84-23-247.dyn.iinet.net.au) ("bye")
  5. # [00:11] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-49d6a61f07e25f31)
  6. # [00:11] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-49d6a61f07e25f31) (Remote closed the connection)
  7. # [00:14] * eseidel_ is now known as eseidel
  8. # [00:29] * Quits: hasather (n=hasather@90-231-107-133-no62.tbcn.telia.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  9. # [00:35] * Joins: heycam (n=cam@clm-laptop.infotech.monash.edu.au)
  10. # [00:39] * Joins: roc (n=roc@CPE-58-168-133-206.vic.bigpond.net.au)
  11. # [00:41] * Quits: roc (n=roc@CPE-58-168-133-206.vic.bigpond.net.au) (Client Quit)
  12. # [00:41] * Joins: roc (n=roc@CPE-58-168-133-206.vic.bigpond.net.au)
  13. # [00:49] * Quits: phsiao (n=shawn@nat/ibm/x-fe3a9f6dd8c75547)
  14. # [00:50] <jgraham> Would someone like to confirm that <table><tr></tr><div></table> should cause 2 parse errors, not three
  15. # [00:50] <jgraham> namely:
  16. # [00:50] <jgraham> Line 1 Col 7 Unexpected start tag (table). Expected DOCTYPE.
  17. # [00:50] <jgraham> Line 1 Col 21 Unexpected start tag (div) in table context caused voodoo mode.
  18. # [00:50] <jgraham> But not Line 1 Col 29 Unexpected implied end tag (div) in the table phase.
  19. # [00:54] <annevk> What you suggest seems correct...
  20. # [00:56] <annevk> The <div> gets inserted before the table, then you process the next token which is not affected by the tainted stuff so all should be fine.
  21. # [00:58] <jgraham> Yeah, it makes some sense given the way the tree turns out but changing the number of parse errors in testcases makes me nervous because it's easy to miss something
  22. # [00:59] * Joins: webben (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com)
  23. # [01:09] * Quits: Camaban (n=alee@77-103-78-94.cable.ubr08.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk) ("Ex-Chat")
  24. # [01:12] * Quits: svl (n=me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) ("And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.")
  25. # [01:12] <Hixie> jgraham: your argument for 2 sounds correct
  26. # [01:13] <jgraham> Hixie: Thanks
  27. # [01:13] <Hixie> jgraham: in general though so long as you have at least 1 when there is at least 1, and 0 when there aren't any, you're pretty much ok
  28. # [01:13] <Hixie> so i wouldn't focus on this unless you're out of other bugs :-)
  29. # [01:13] * jgraham wishes html5lib didn't record parse error
  30. # [01:14] <jgraham> Hixie: The problem is working out why our testcases are failing. Sometimes getting the wrong number of parse errors is useful information like "you haven't implemented the RCDATA parsing algorithm properly yet"
  31. # [01:14] <annevk> I never realized, http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-layout/ also contains flexbox
  32. # [01:15] <Hixie> jgraham: yeah
  33. # [01:15] <annevk> (not defined in detail or anything though)
  34. # [01:15] <Philip`> That kind of boolean test for parse errors is unhelpful if there aren't test cases for each possible parse error in isolation
  35. # [01:16] <jgraham> Philip`: Patches welcome ;)
  36. # [01:16] <Philip`> and I think there aren't tests for each parse error in isolation now, so you have to count the errors to make sure you're not missing some
  37. # [01:16] <Hixie> yeah
  38. # [01:16] <Hixie> i'm not saying it shouldn't be tested for
  39. # [01:16] <Hixie> i'm just saying it's no the highest priority
  40. # [01:16] <Hixie> in particular, excessive errors aren't a big deal
  41. # [01:17] <Hixie> so long as you return 0 when there are 0
  42. # [01:17] * Hixie has gotten as far as June 4th 2006 in his replying to e-mails about mathml
  43. # [01:18] <annevk> lucky you, the last 250-300 were from last month...
  44. # [01:18] <Hixie> 12 of 620
  45. # [01:18] <jgraham> Hixie: When did you start
  46. # [01:18] <jgraham> ?
  47. # [01:19] <Hixie> a few hours ago
  48. # [01:19] <Hixie> (i wrote a long summary first)
  49. # [01:20] <annevk> defining error handling for MathML in HTML5 makes no sense...
  50. # [01:21] <jgraham> So I reckon you have about a week (620/12 * 3/24) of no-sleep continuous work ahead replying to these emails. But maybe linear extrapolation is bad ;)
  51. # [01:28] <annevk> there should be some root function in there probably
  52. # [01:28] * Joins: starjive (i=beos@213-66-217-32-no30.tbcn.telia.com)
  53. # [01:30] <annevk> Hixie, we're keeping <![cdata[ and "change" <script> parsing inside <svg> / <math>?
  54. # [01:30] * Quits: deltab (n=deltab@82-36-30-34.cable.ubr02.smal.blueyonder.co.uk) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  55. # [01:35] <Hixie> annevk: according to one of these e-mails, the host language is the one that has to define the error handling. so...
  56. # [01:35] <Hixie> annevk: i haven't worked out what to do about cdata yet
  57. # [01:36] <Hixie> annevk: i'd need to pretty substantially reinstrument my parser to get the necessary information
  58. # [01:36] <Hixie> annevk: so far, though, i have seen little enough data that i think it might be a non-issue in practice
  59. # [01:36] <Hixie> at least compared to the issue of <svg> elements all over the web suddenly insertion white blobs into documents
  60. # [01:37] * Quits: roc (n=roc@CPE-58-168-133-206.vic.bigpond.net.au) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  61. # [01:38] <Hixie> this folder originally had over 33000 lines of e-mail
  62. # [01:38] * Joins: andersca (n=andersca@c-71-198-2-225.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  63. # [01:38] <annevk> For new authors it seems confusing that the two <script> elements are completely different, but I guess that goes for <a> and <textarea> too...
  64. # [01:39] <annevk> As for the MathML error handling, you'd hope the same error handling would be applied in standalone MathML, HTML, SVG, etc. Maybe something to convince the MathML WG about in due course :)
  65. # [01:45] <Hixie> authors are going to find a lot of this new stuff confusing
  66. # [01:47] * Quits: tndH (i=Rob@adsl-87-102-77-74.karoo.KCOM.COM) ("ChatZilla 0.9.81-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508]")
  67. # [01:47] <annevk> i guess the question is whether "compat" with current tools or long term "consistency" is preferable
  68. # [01:52] <Hixie> consistency if definitely preferable
  69. # [01:52] <Hixie> compat is, however, necessary
  70. # [01:53] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@58.157.21.205)
  71. # [02:04] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  72. # [02:05] * Joins: deltab (n=deltab@82-36-30-34.cable.ubr02.smal.blueyonder.co.uk)
  73. # [02:06] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  74. # [02:14] <Hixie> there is a direct correlation between people whose e-mails are hard to read (badly wrapped, bad line spacing, bad language) and people whose input is of little use (rambling, inaccurate, ranting)
  75. # [02:18] <Philip`> A statistically significant correlation? :-)
  76. # [02:19] <MikeSmith> Hixie: could graph usefulness against User-Agent or X-Mailer header of messages
  77. # [02:21] <Philip`> Look for "-- "-delimited signatures as another potential indicator
  78. # [02:27] <jwalden> of clue or not?
  79. # [02:28] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-47849acf45751e61)
  80. # [02:35] <MikeSmith> User-Agent in form "Mutt 1.5.14r5360+poontang (2008-03-11 17:20:48+09:00)" probably good indication of least clue
  81. # [02:45] * Quits: eseidel (n=eseidel@72.14.224.1)
  82. # [02:47] * Quits: csarven (i=csarven@on-irc.csarven.ca) ("http://www.csarven.ca")
  83. # [02:47] * Joins: MacDome (n=eric@c-24-130-11-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  84. # [02:53] <Hixie> 6% complete
  85. # [02:55] <Philip`> Hmm, Googlebot seems to be following URLs from my XHR JavaScript code
  86. # [02:57] <Philip`> and they're relative ones, so it's not just picking up http://...
  87. # [02:58] <othermaciej> maybe it's achieved sentience
  88. # [02:58] <Philip`> so either it's being very stupid and trying to resolve every string like "/.../..." as a URL, or it's being very clever and understanding JavaScript, or I've accidentally got normal links to that page (but I'm fairly sure I haven't)
  89. # [02:59] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-47849acf45751e61)
  90. # [03:00] * Philip` changes his server code to require the POST parameter, to foil Googlebot
  91. # [03:00] <Hixie> did you have side-effects on GET?
  92. # [03:00] <Philip`> Of course
  93. # [03:01] <Hixie> naughty naughty! :-)
  94. # [03:01] <Philip`> although all it did was log the fact that someone had clicked a button
  95. # [03:01] <Philip`> so the result is just that the log is full of Googlebots
  96. # [03:02] <Hixie> good times
  97. # [03:02] <Hixie> usually when a secret link gets into google, it's because some site somewhere had public logs that included the uri of its referers and the hidden page linked to that site
  98. # [03:05] <Philip`> This hidden page doesn't link anywhere (it simply returns the text "OK"), and there's a dozen of them and Googlebot has found them all, and nobody visits this site anyway
  99. # [03:06] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-908bc8784b87b97f)
  100. # [03:07] <takkaria> Philip`: you don't have to be /very/ clever to understand JS, just run a parser over anything marked as JS
  101. # [03:07] <jruderman> nobody visits the site?
  102. # [03:09] <Philip`> Unrelatedly: Googlebot doesn't understand xml:base
  103. # [03:09] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-908bc8784b87b97f) (Client Quit)
  104. # [03:09] <Philip`> or it doesn't understand XHTML at all and thinks it's HTML
  105. # [03:10] <Philip`> because I'm getting lots of 404s from xml:based relative URLs in http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/imgmaps.xhtml
  106. # [03:11] * Quits: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  107. # [03:11] <Hixie> last i checked our xhtml support consisted of pretending it was text/html
  108. # [03:12] <Philip`> That would quite possibly explain it
  109. # [03:12] <jruderman> google's https support sucks too
  110. # [03:12] <jruderman> it keeps sending me to sites with bogus certs
  111. # [03:13] * Philip` tries a test to determine whether Googlebot really is following XHR requests
  112. # [03:13] <Philip`> Someone please remind me in a few weeks to check my logs and see what happened :-)
  113. # [03:15] <Hixie> how did you test it?
  114. # [03:16] * Hixie lets the google sentience know that it should try to confuse philip some more
  115. # [03:16] <Philip`> I'm just trying to write some scripts that are like the one that Googlebot appeared to follow, to see whether I'm just imagining things or if it's real, and where its limits are :-)
  116. # [03:17] <Hixie> ah
  117. # [03:25] <Hixie> i have reached the ninth of june!
  118. # [03:25] <Philip`> Which ninth of June?
  119. # [03:25] <Hixie> 2006 still
  120. # [03:25] <Hixie> i'm down to 27,000 lines
  121. # [03:26] <Hixie> i start at above 33,000
  122. # [03:32] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  123. # [03:35] * Joins: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@46.80-202-220.nextgentel.com)
  124. # [03:57] <dglazkov> Hixie?
  125. # [04:03] * Joins: xShad0w___ (n=xShad0w@pool-71-178-15-178.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  126. # [04:04] * Parts: xShad0w___ (n=xShad0w@pool-71-178-15-178.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  127. # [04:06] * Joins: csarven (n=csarven@bas16-montreal02-1279649451.dsl.bell.ca)
  128. # [04:09] <Hixie> dglazkov: yo
  129. # [04:09] * Joins: G0k (n=hmason@cpe-24-58-5-224.twcny.res.rr.com)
  130. # [04:15] * Joins: Thezilch (i=fuz007@cpe-76-170-22-70.socal.res.rr.com)
  131. # [04:18] * Quits: andersca (n=andersca@c-71-198-2-225.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  132. # [04:29] <Hixie> 10th of june!
  133. # [04:32] <dglazkov> good!
  134. # [04:32] <dglazkov> what?
  135. # [04:33] <dglazkov> Hixie?
  136. # [04:33] <dglazkov> We're like ships in the fog
  137. # [04:34] <Hixie> i'm responding to math e-mails
  138. # [04:34] <Hixie> i got to the e-mails from the 10th of june 2006
  139. # [04:37] <Hixie> ooh, the thread must have died down at that point
  140. # [04:37] <Hixie> 16th of june
  141. # [04:38] <dglazkov> cool
  142. # [04:38] <G0k> only 22 months
  143. # [04:38] <dglazkov> can you explain why nokia folks post about SQL spec on public-html while the rest of us post on whatwg?
  144. # [04:38] <dglazkov> is there some political tension that I am unable to detect?
  145. # [04:39] <Hixie> not everyone is subscribed to both lists
  146. # [04:39] <Hixie> how people pick one over the other, i dunno
  147. # [04:39] <Hixie> i don't pay much attention to which list is which
  148. # [04:39] <dglazkov> ok, different question. Is this somewhere in your pile: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Feb/0401.html?
  149. # [04:40] <Hixie> except that i guarantee that i will reply to feedback on the whatwg list, and don't guarantee that i'll reply to feedback on the public-html list
  150. # [04:41] <Hixie> yes, third from the bottom in http://www.whatwg.org/issues/#sql
  151. # [04:42] <dglazkov> do I still have time for another question? ;)
  152. # [04:42] <Hixie> sure
  153. # [04:42] <Hixie> you can ask as many as you like :-)
  154. # [04:42] <dglazkov> why changeVersion is modeled after transaction()? Why not just have a setVersion on tx object?
  155. # [04:42] * Parts: G0k (n=hmason@cpe-24-58-5-224.twcny.res.rr.com)
  156. # [04:44] <Hixie> the idea is to let you safely make changes to the schema when you change the version
  157. # [04:44] <Hixie> so that the database is never in an in-between state
  158. # [04:44] <Hixie> it's either version X with the old schema, or version X+1 with the new schema.
  159. # [04:46] <dglazkov> so, even though the transaction assures atomic version change, you want a more explicitly designed interface?
  160. # [04:47] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  161. # [04:47] <Hixie> oh you would have had a "set version" method that you could call from within a transaction only?
  162. # [04:47] <dglazkov> right -- this is not my idea, btw
  163. # [04:47] <dglazkov> aa had asked me
  164. # [04:47] * Quits: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) ("Leaving")
  165. # [04:48] <dglazkov> and I went to the source
  166. # [04:48] <Hixie> i guess it could be done that way... seems more brittle though
  167. # [04:48] <Hixie> what's the advantage of the other way?
  168. # [04:49] <dglazkov> I think the advantage is that it's the same transaction() for everything
  169. # [04:49] <dglazkov> simpler API
  170. # [04:49] <Hixie> it's not simpler, you'd still add a method
  171. # [04:49] <dglazkov> and changeVersion is hanging lower in the interface
  172. # [04:49] <dglazkov> hierarchy
  173. # [04:49] <Hixie> two, probably, since you have to check the version first
  174. # [04:49] <Hixie> and define how it works outside transactions, etc
  175. # [04:50] <Hixie> in fact it would be more complicated as far as i can tell
  176. # [04:51] * Quits: MacDome (n=eric@c-24-130-11-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  177. # [04:54] <dglazkov> we could get away with one method tx.changeVersion(old, new), but I do wonder if it'll make it more complex in term of interaction with other statements in transaction.
  178. # [05:03] * Quits: jwalden (n=waldo@RANDOM-SEVENTY-TWO.MIT.EDU) (Remote closed the connection)
  179. # [05:06] <Hixie> well you'd want to check first, then run the statements, then change at the end
  180. # [05:06] <Hixie> personally i think the way the spec works today is fine :-)
  181. # [05:10] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  182. # [05:14] <Hixie> 20 june 2006!
  183. # [05:19] <jruderman> does anyone implement the pseudo-rules part of http://www.w3.org/TR/css-style-attr ?
  184. # [05:31] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.172)
  185. # [06:00] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  186. # [06:13] * Quits: csarven (n=csarven@bas16-montreal02-1279649451.dsl.bell.ca) ("http://www.csarven.ca")
  187. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> Hixie: editorial nit, fwiw
  188. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> about r1419
  189. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> [[
  190. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> + <p>User agents must act as if any MathML element whose contents does not
  191. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> + match the element's content model was replaced, for the purposes of MathML
  192. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> + layout and rendering, by an <code title="">merror</code> element
  193. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> ]]
  194. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> I think it should be "the element's content model were replaced"
  195. # [06:25] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  196. # [06:27] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  197. # [06:36] * Quits: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  198. # [06:52] * Joins: kfish (n=conrad@61.194.21.25)
  199. # [06:56] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  200. # [07:06] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@c-71-198-176-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  201. # [07:07] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  202. # [07:30] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@people.mozilla.com)
  203. # [07:36] * Joins: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  204. # [07:40] * Joins: BenMillard (i=cerbera@cpc1-flee1-0-0-cust285.glfd.cable.ntl.com)
  205. # [07:46] * Joins: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-215.dsl.pipex.com)
  206. # [07:51] * Joins: MacDome (n=eric@c-24-130-11-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  207. # [07:58] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  208. # [08:03] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
  209. # [08:04] * Quits: heycam (n=cam@clm-laptop.infotech.monash.edu.au) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  210. # [08:09] * Joins: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5laptop14.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  211. # [08:14] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  212. # [08:19] * Quits: doublec (n=ChrisDou@li5-223.members.linode.com) (Remote closed the connection)
  213. # [08:22] * Quits: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-215.dsl.pipex.com)
  214. # [08:26] * Parts: BenMillard (i=cerbera@cpc1-flee1-0-0-cust285.glfd.cable.ntl.com)
  215. # [08:36] * Joins: fishkandy (n=conrad@61.194.21.25)
  216. # [08:40] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  217. # [08:46] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  218. # [08:47] * Joins: heycam (n=cam@210-84-23-247.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  219. # [08:50] * Quits: kfish (n=conrad@61.194.21.25) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  220. # [08:51] * Joins: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acbc82.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  221. # [09:00] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt)
  222. # [09:02] * fishkandy is now known as kfish
  223. # [09:18] * Joins: eseidel (n=eseidel@c-24-130-11-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  224. # [09:19] * Joins: eseidel_ (n=eseidel@72.14.224.1)
  225. # [09:19] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  226. # [09:23] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  227. # [09:29] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  228. # [09:29] <zcorpan> Hixie: "h1", "h2", "h3", "h5", "h6"<!--for completeness-->, ... not h4 (for completeness)?
  229. # [09:30] <Hixie> ooops
  230. # [09:32] <zcorpan> i thought the list would be a lot longer
  231. # [09:32] <Hixie> i might add more, but yeah
  232. # [09:32] <Hixie> there's not that much svg/mathml out there in text/html
  233. # [09:33] <zcorpan> ok
  234. # [09:33] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  235. # [09:33] <zcorpan> what about stray text in <svg>, though? not common?
  236. # [09:34] * Quits: eseidel (n=eseidel@c-24-130-11-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  237. # [09:36] <Hixie> hm, didn't check that
  238. # [09:41] <zcorpan> neither <math> nor <svg> may contain text as direct children, so it would be possible to make non-whitespace bail if pages break because of it
  239. # [09:41] <zcorpan> (although <math>foo</math> would render fine either way)
  240. # [09:45] * Quits: inimino (n=inimino@c-75-70-128-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  241. # [09:45] <zcorpan> <![CDATA[ is the odd one out in html wrt case sensitivity
  242. # [09:46] <zcorpan> i'm not saying it should be case insensitive, i'm just noting :)
  243. # [09:49] * Quits: eseidel_ (n=eseidel@72.14.224.1)
  244. # [09:52] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  245. # [09:53] <Hixie> zcorpan: yeah. let me know if you see compat problems in reality if you implement this, and i'll add in whatever we need to avoid them
  246. # [09:53] <Hixie> i agree about the text thing
  247. # [09:53] <Hixie> but i'd rather not make more changes unless required
  248. # [09:55] * Joins: roc (n=roc@203.94.133.193)
  249. # [10:01] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  250. # [10:13] * Quits: webben (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com)
  251. # [10:14] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  252. # [10:22] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  253. # [10:25] * Joins: roc_ (n=roc@203.94.133.193)
  254. # [10:25] * Quits: roc (n=roc@203.94.133.193) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  255. # [10:25] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-174-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  256. # [10:27] * Quits: Thezilch (i=fuz007@cpe-76-170-22-70.socal.res.rr.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  257. # [10:27] * Quits: roc_ (n=roc@203.94.133.193) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  258. # [10:29] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@ti200710a340-2662.bb.online.no) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  259. # [10:30] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@ti200710a340-2662.bb.online.no)
  260. # [10:30] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@ti200710a340-2662.bb.online.no) (Client Quit)
  261. # [10:34] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  262. # [10:42] * Quits: MacDome (n=eric@c-24-130-11-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  263. # [10:46] * Quits: blooberry (n=brian@c-76-126-194-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  264. # [10:47] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  265. # [10:48] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  266. # [10:50] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-77e4fe23128ff36b)
  267. # [11:04] * Joins: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  268. # [11:04] <hendry> Hixie: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hendry/2399898537/ # acid3 on the Nokia S60 browser
  269. # [11:04] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  270. # [11:05] * Quits: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  271. # [11:05] * Joins: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  272. # [11:07] * Quits: tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net)
  273. # [11:08] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  274. # [11:11] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  275. # [11:21] <jruderman> Hixie: acid2 font metrics drama in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=426616
  276. # [11:24] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) ("Ex-Chat")
  277. # [11:25] * gsnedders always forgets MikeSmith's name on twitter, and always has to look up who his nick is
  278. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: sideshowbarker
  279. # [11:26] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: yeah, it's the other way round
  280. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> ah
  281. # [11:26] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: seeing tweets from sideshowbarker, and wondering who the hell that is
  282. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> heh
  283. # [11:26] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: seeming I only follow people I actually know, it should know
  284. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> good, I like it that way
  285. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> I like the who-the-hell effect
  286. # [11:27] <gsnedders> I guess gsnedders doesn't have the same affect ;P
  287. # [11:28] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: so you're writing some pornographic science-fiction love ballads or something these days?
  288. # [11:28] <MikeSmith> given on HTML5 and turned to creative writing, have you?
  289. # [11:28] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: hah!
  290. # [11:28] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: not quite! :)
  291. # [11:29] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: it's not pornographic, it's slightly erotic. it's not science-fiction, it's based mainly on fact, and it's not a ballad anyway.
  292. # [11:29] <gsnedders> it's currently a far-too-short short-story
  293. # [11:31] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: and also turned back to http-parsing, so yeah, I am doing less with HTML 5 now, though I'm still reading what comes in
  294. # [11:31] <MikeSmith> yeah, I have noticed you on the httpbis list
  295. # [11:31] <gsnedders> anyhow, bbiab
  296. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> they are trying to give us HTML people a run for our money
  297. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> in terms of generating large volumes of e-mail
  298. # [11:47] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-174-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  299. # [12:04] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: But from what I see, about ignoring the reality of how HTTP is used and thinking they can specify anything that isn't conforming
  300. # [12:14] <Hixie> 24 feb 2007
  301. # [12:14] <Hixie> i finally made it out of 2006
  302. # [12:14] <Hixie> down to 20000 lines
  303. # [12:23] <zcorpan_> speaking of lines, there are 39942 non-blank lines in the generated spec source, which is the amount of testcases we need according to an old draft charter proposal, iirc
  304. # [12:30] <Hixie> sounds about right
  305. # [12:30] <Hixie> i'm surprised that the estimate works out that well
  306. # [12:46] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  307. # [12:48] <Hixie> 9 march 2008!
  308. # [12:50] <annevk> that we didn't start this discussion right on from 2004 :)
  309. # [12:51] <annevk> I guess that's because we didn't have the plan for writing down the parser algorithm back then...
  310. # [12:51] <Hixie> actually i've already sent a giant reply to these e-mails
  311. # [12:51] <Hixie> i dealt with namespaces in mid 2006
  312. # [12:52] <Hixie> that's why the earliest e-mails are from then
  313. # [12:52] <Hixie> because all the earlier ones already got replies
  314. # [12:52] <annevk> interesting
  315. # [12:55] <hsivonen> If I implement data URIs (per, IIRC, Lachy's RFE), I'll end up creating an insanely inefficient way to upload schemas to Validator.nu...
  316. # [12:55] * Quits: kfish (n=conrad@61.194.21.25) ("Pike!")
  317. # [12:56] <zcorpan_> Hixie: pointer to that email? can't find in the archives searching for "namespace" in mid 2006
  318. # [12:56] <hsivonen> but then, the current design doesn't take POSTed *schemas* into account in any way :-(
  319. # [12:56] <Hixie> zcorpan_: it was just maths, back then. search for anything from me. might have been a set of smaller e-mails instead of one big one. At least one of the e-mails had a general comment about tone and making positive contributions, which is probably the main one i'm thinking of
  320. # [12:57] <Hixie> early june 2006
  321. # [12:57] <Hixie> or maybe late may
  322. # [12:58] * zcorpan_ sees quite a bit of "math" emails in http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2006-June/thread.html
  323. # [13:00] * Quits: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-77e4fe23128ff36b)
  324. # [13:01] <hsivonen> hmm. am I right that MIME allows backslash escapes in the value of the charset parameter?
  325. # [13:02] <hsivonen> like text/html; charset=\u\t\f\-\8
  326. # [13:02] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@nat/canonical/x-4d22b683d584cd45)
  327. # [13:03] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-88016277b664dcce)
  328. # [13:03] <Hixie> no idea, i've tried to ignore the details of that kind of syntax
  329. # [13:03] <Hixie> i have a firm head-in-the-sand approach to MIME
  330. # [13:04] <Hixie> especially it's sytnax
  331. # [13:04] <Hixie> syntax too
  332. # [13:04] * Quits: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-88016277b664dcce) (Client Quit)
  333. # [13:05] <hsivonen> I'm trying to implement data URIs. correctly.
  334. # [13:05] <Hixie> let me know how that goes
  335. # [13:05] <Hixie> :-)
  336. # [13:06] <Hixie> i can add more tests to my data: uri test suite if you find edge cases that should be tested
  337. # [13:06] <Hixie> http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/data/
  338. # [13:06] <hsivonen> ooh. a test suite. thanks
  339. # [13:06] * Joins: inimino (n=inimino@c-75-70-128-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
  340. # [13:07] <annevk> the tests for # might be incorrect
  341. # [13:13] <hsivonen> is space between ";base64" and "," allowed by some referenced RFC?
  342. # [13:17] <hsivonen> am I right that there's nothing prohibiting the type part of the URI from being percent-escaped?
  343. # [13:18] <gsnedders> hsivonen: plain old URI path, so sure, you can percent-escape it
  344. # [13:18] <gsnedders> hsivonen: even ;base64 can be escaped
  345. # [13:18] <hsivonen> excellent
  346. # [13:19] <annevk> <canvas>: http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2008/04/super-mario-in-14kb-javascript.html
  347. # [13:19] <gsnedders> the behaviour isn't quite right. you should be able to jump and slide along the bottom of something, getting all the coins along the way :(
  348. # [13:22] * gsnedders played too much Mario when he was younger
  349. # [13:22] * annevk finds a Hixie in the comments :)
  350. # [13:23] <Hixie> hm?
  351. # [13:23] <Hixie> oh, those comments
  352. # [13:23] <Hixie> heh
  353. # [13:23] <Hixie> i was replying to namespace e-mail, i swear
  354. # [13:26] * gsnedders wonders whether to dig out his game boy
  355. # [13:26] <gsnedders> just to play Mario :\
  356. # [13:26] <Philip`> That's what emulators are for
  357. # [13:27] <gsnedders> But that's not the same as using real ARM-based hardware!
  358. # [13:28] <Philip`> You could set up an ARM-based PC and run the emulator on that
  359. # [13:28] <gsnedders> Philip`: that means getting an ARM-based PC
  360. # [13:28] * Joins: deane (n=dean@203-211-80-218.ue.woosh.co.nz)
  361. # [13:28] <gsnedders> (where can you get one from, anyway?)
  362. # [13:28] <Philip`> You make that sound like it's a bad thing
  363. # [13:28] * Joins: Camaban (n=Camaban@77-103-78-94.cable.ubr08.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk)
  364. # [13:29] <gsnedders> Philip`: getting one? It means spending money :P
  365. # [13:30] <Philip`> Nintendo seems to be defeating emulators nowadays by using hardware that isn't a subset of what PCs have - there's no way you could play most DS games with a mouse and keyboard :-(
  366. # [13:31] <annevk> the mouse could act like a stylus, maybe
  367. # [13:31] <hsivonen> "As a shorthand, "text/plain" can be omitted but the charset parameter supplied." aarrgh.
  368. # [13:31] <gsnedders> Philip`: iPhone? That's quite close to the DS in many ways
  369. # [13:31] <hsivonen> does the type start with ";" in that case?
  370. # [13:31] <annevk> whoa, data: has a charset?
  371. # [13:32] <annevk> that sounds like a pre-IRI thing...
  372. # [13:32] <gsnedders> hsivonen: I would assume so
  373. # [13:32] <hsivonen> annevk: data has crazy layering
  374. # [13:33] <hsivonen> consider text/plain as base64 data
  375. # [13:33] <annevk> omitting text/plain is nice
  376. # [13:33] <annevk> data:,data
  377. # [13:33] <hsivonen> the URI string is text
  378. # [13:33] <hsivonen> percent-decoding yields bytes
  379. # [13:33] <hsivonen> those are ASCII-decoded to text
  380. # [13:33] <hsivonen> that text is Base64-decoded into bytes
  381. # [13:33] <hsivonen> then the bytes are decoded as text
  382. # [13:34] <hsivonen> yay!
  383. # [13:34] <gsnedders> how about: data:%3Bcharset=UTF%2D8;base64,SGVsbG8sI%48dvcmxkIQ==
  384. # [13:34] <gsnedders> that crazy enough?
  385. # [13:35] <Hixie> i'm not convinced you can %-escape before the ,
  386. # [13:35] <Hixie> but i'm not sure
  387. # [13:36] <gsnedders> Hixie: nothing prohibits it, as far as I can see, so normal URI path rules apply
  388. # [13:36] <gsnedders> Safari copes with my example
  389. # [13:37] <gsnedders> "where "urlchar" is imported from [RFC2396]" — I see no urlchar there :\
  390. # [13:37] <Hixie> no you can only have %XX in pct-encoded
  391. # [13:38] <gsnedders> sure, but in that case it doesn't even allow it in the actual data
  392. # [13:38] <Hixie> oh nevermind
  393. # [13:38] <gsnedders> it doesn't explicitly allow pct-encoded anywhere
  394. # [13:38] <Hixie> it explicitly says "represented using URL escaped encoding of [RFC2396] as necessary"
  395. # [13:39] * Hixie goes back to namespace hell
  396. # [13:39] <gsnedders> 'where "urlchar" is imported from [RFC2396]' — that's odd, though, seeming there is no urlchar
  397. # [13:40] <gsnedders> maybe pchar?
  398. # [13:40] <gsnedders> and no erratum about that
  399. # [13:40] <hsivonen> so %-encoding is allowed anywhere after "data:", right?
  400. # [13:40] <gsnedders> hsivonen: yeah
  401. # [13:42] * Joins: inimino1 (n=inimino@c-75-70-128-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
  402. # [13:43] * Quits: inimino (n=inimino@c-75-70-128-190.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  403. # [13:44] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  404. # [13:50] <Hixie> bed time
  405. # [13:50] <Hixie> nn
  406. # [13:52] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-f1da205c4d3cb37e)
  407. # [14:10] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  408. # [14:16] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  409. # [14:25] * Quits: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acbc82.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) ("Leaving")
  410. # [15:05] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  411. # [15:21] * Quits: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-f1da205c4d3cb37e) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  412. # [15:22] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  413. # [15:32] * Joins: phsiao (n=shawn@c-71-233-78-251.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  414. # [15:34] * Joins: Camaban_ (n=Camaban@77-103-78-94.cable.ubr08.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk)
  415. # [15:42] * Joins: myakura (n=myakura@p1215-ipbf3008marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  416. # [15:49] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  417. # [15:49] * Joins: MacDome (n=eric@c-24-130-11-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  418. # [15:51] * Quits: Camaban (n=Camaban@77-103-78-94.cable.ubr08.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  419. # [15:53] * Joins: tndH_ (i=Rob@adsl-87-102-77-74.karoo.KCOM.COM)
  420. # [15:53] * tndH_ is now known as tndH
  421. # [15:57] * Camaban_ is now known as Camaban
  422. # [15:59] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-190e1c347cfc0267)
  423. # [16:02] * Joins: csarven (n=csarven@on-irc.csarven.ca)
  424. # [16:06] * Joins: davidb (n=davidb@142.150.154.101)
  425. # [16:14] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@nat/canonical/x-4d22b683d584cd45) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  426. # [16:16] * Quits: MacDome (n=eric@c-24-130-11-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  427. # [16:17] * Joins: billyjack (n=MikeSmit@58.157.21.205)
  428. # [16:18] * Quits: billyjack (n=MikeSmit@58.157.21.205) (Remote closed the connection)
  429. # [16:18] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@nat/canonical/x-ede6638206e4f6c4)
  430. # [16:20] * Quits: phsiao (n=shawn@c-71-233-78-251.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  431. # [16:24] * Quits: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  432. # [16:25] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-174-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  433. # [16:28] * Joins: svl (n=me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  434. # [16:42] * Joins: aroben (n=aroben@c-71-58-57-150.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  435. # [16:48] * Joins: phsiao (n=shawn@nat/ibm/x-07d3250d48cb9fea)
  436. # [16:55] * Quits: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5laptop14.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  437. # [17:11] * Joins: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acdd162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  438. # [17:17] * Quits: davidb (n=davidb@142.150.154.101) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  439. # [17:18] * Quits: myakura (n=myakura@p1215-ipbf3008marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) ("Leaving...")
  440. # [17:21] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) ("The computer fell asleep")
  441. # [17:25] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com) ("Leaving")
  442. # [17:48] * Quits: deane (n=dean@203-211-80-218.ue.woosh.co.nz) ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]")
  443. # [17:55] * Joins: eseidel (n=eseidel@nat/google/x-93bf0521b3e3676c)
  444. # [18:03] * Joins: G0k (n=hmason@cpe-24-58-5-224.twcny.res.rr.com)
  445. # [18:04] * Parts: G0k (n=hmason@cpe-24-58-5-224.twcny.res.rr.com)
  446. # [18:17] * Quits: mitsuhiko (n=nmitsuhi@ubuntu/member/mitsuhiko) (Excess Flood)
  447. # [18:21] * Joins: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-215.dsl.pipex.com)
  448. # [18:22] * Joins: mitsuhiko (n=nnmitsuh@ubuntu/member/mitsuhiko)
  449. # [18:22] * Quits: wakaba_ (n=w@120.137.148.210.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  450. # [18:30] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-60b4f943ab39b826)
  451. # [18:46] * Joins: wakaba (n=w@118.162.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  452. # [18:58] * Quits: csarven (n=csarven@on-irc.csarven.ca) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  453. # [19:20] * Joins: G0k (n=hmason@cpe-24-58-5-224.twcny.res.rr.com)
  454. # [19:20] * Parts: G0k (n=hmason@cpe-24-58-5-224.twcny.res.rr.com)
  455. # [19:30] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  456. # [19:32] * Joins: csarven (i=csarven@on-irc.csarven.ca)
  457. # [19:40] * Parts: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-190e1c347cfc0267)
  458. # [19:41] * Quits: bzed (n=bzed@debian/developer/bzed) (Remote closed the connection)
  459. # [19:43] * Joins: bzed (n=bzed@devel.recluse.de)
  460. # [19:44] * Quits: bzed (n=bzed@devel.recluse.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  461. # [19:45] * Joins: bzed (n=bzed@devel.recluse.de)
  462. # [19:52] * Joins: qwert666_ (n=qwert666@acdd162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  463. # [19:53] * Quits: svl (n=me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) ("And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.")
  464. # [19:54] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@c-71-198-176-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  465. # [19:56] * Joins: qwert666__ (n=qwert666@acdd162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  466. # [19:58] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@109.80-202-65.nextgentel.com)
  467. # [20:09] * Quits: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acdd162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Connection timed out)
  468. # [20:12] * Quits: qwert666_ (n=qwert666@acdd162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Connection timed out)
  469. # [20:12] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  470. # [20:14] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@nat/canonical/x-ede6638206e4f6c4) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  471. # [20:19] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@ti200710a340-2662.bb.online.no)
  472. # [20:34] * Quits: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  473. # [20:36] * Quits: qwert666__ (n=qwert666@acdd162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) ("Leaving")
  474. # [20:42] * Joins: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  475. # [20:43] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.172)
  476. # [20:49] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  477. # [20:55] * Quits: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  478. # [20:57] * Joins: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  479. # [21:10] * Joins: andersca (n=andersca@nat/apple/x-4c3d705ed673a207)
  480. # [21:13] * Quits: eseidel (n=eseidel@nat/google/x-93bf0521b3e3676c)
  481. # [21:26] * Joins: Thezilch (n=asdf@rrcs-74-62-192-76.west.biz.rr.com)
  482. # [21:28] * Parts: annevk (n=annevk@77.163.243.203)
  483. # [21:29] * Joins: annevk (n=annevk@77.163.243.203)
  484. # [21:36] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@anson22.demon.co.uk)
  485. # [21:37] * Joins: kingryan (n=ryan@dsl092-002-056.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  486. # [21:41] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@c-67-180-174-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  487. # [21:43] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  488. # [21:45] * Quits: Thezilch (n=asdf@rrcs-74-62-192-76.west.biz.rr.com) (Connection timed out)
  489. # [21:54] * Quits: Camaban (n=Camaban@77-103-78-94.cable.ubr08.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk) ("Leaving")
  490. # [22:06] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@anson22.demon.co.uk) ("Leaving")
  491. # [22:24] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  492. # [22:25] * hsivonen sees property="dc:title" on <h1> on Flickr
  493. # [22:27] <annevk> evil :)
  494. # [22:27] <annevk> in related news: http://www.w3.org/News/2008#item66
  495. # [22:28] <gsnedders> What a name…
  496. # [22:29] <annevk> more: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/app-backplane/charter-20080409.html
  497. # [22:31] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-183-4.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  498. # [22:32] * Joins: hasather (n=hasather@90-231-107-133-no62.tbcn.telia.com)
  499. # [22:35] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  500. # [22:37] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-941b91985bfc18c6)
  501. # [22:43] * Quits: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-215.dsl.pipex.com)
  502. # [22:49] * aroben is now known as aroben|away
  503. # [22:49] * Joins: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-215.dsl.pipex.com)
  504. # [22:54] * Joins: andersca_ (n=andersca@17.255.105.194)
  505. # [22:54] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  506. # [22:59] * Quits: psa (n=yomode@71.93.19.66) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  507. # [23:00] * Quits: andersca_ (n=andersca@17.255.105.194) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  508. # [23:01] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-941b91985bfc18c6) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  509. # [23:01] * Joins: andersca_ (n=andersca@17.255.105.194)
  510. # [23:01] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-d30f09f2704b8e08)
  511. # [23:02] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@109.80-202-65.nextgentel.com) ("Ex-Chat")
  512. # [23:08] * Quits: andersca (n=andersca@nat/apple/x-4c3d705ed673a207) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  513. # [23:11] * Joins: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@17.255.107.146)
  514. # [23:15] * Quits: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@17.255.107.146) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  515. # [23:17] * Joins: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@17.255.107.146)
  516. # [23:21] * Joins: G0k (n=hmason@cpe-24-58-5-224.twcny.res.rr.com)
  517. # [23:24] * Parts: G0k (n=hmason@cpe-24-58-5-224.twcny.res.rr.com)
  518. # [23:26] * Joins: kingryan_ (n=ryan@dsl092-002-056.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  519. # [23:27] * Quits: kingryan (n=ryan@dsl092-002-056.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  520. # [23:27] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@nat/apple/x-d30f09f2704b8e08) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  521. # [23:33] * Joins: kingryan (n=ryan@dsl092-002-056.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  522. # [23:33] * Quits: jgraham_ (n=james@81-86-218-215.dsl.pipex.com)
  523. # [23:33] * Joins: kingryan__ (n=ryan@c-24-5-77-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  524. # [23:36] * Joins: kingryan___ (n=ryan@c-24-5-77-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  525. # [23:36] * Quits: kingryan__ (n=ryan@c-24-5-77-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  526. # [23:37] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-44-37-113.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) ("Partying in teh intarwebs")
  527. # [23:41] * Quits: kingryan___ (n=ryan@c-24-5-77-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  528. # [23:45] * Joins: svl_ (n=me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  529. # [23:45] <Hixie> gotta love how microsoft are considering extensions to DOM3 Events before even implementing DOM1 Events
  530. # [23:46] * Quits: kingryan_ (n=ryan@dsl092-002-056.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  531. # [23:46] * Quits: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@17.255.107.146) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  532. # [23:47] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.107.146)
  533. # [23:53] * Quits: kingryan (n=ryan@dsl092-002-056.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  534. # [23:54] * aroben|away is now known as aroben
  535. # [23:54] <othermaciej> Hixie: my wild-ass guess based on Travis's last message is that customers want a way to remove all event listeners when leaving a page to avoid IE's memory leak problems with leftover event listeners
  536. # [23:56] <Hixie> maybe
  537. # [23:56] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-183-4.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  538. # [23:56] <Hixie> of course if we don't spec what they want, they'll just make up their own shit and say we wouldn't give it to them
  539. # [23:58] <annevk> would that be different for other UAs?
  540. # [23:58] <annevk> Mozilla has quite a few extensions to Range for instance...
  541. # [23:59] * Quits: heycam (n=cam@210-84-23-247.dyn.iinet.net.au) ("bye")
  542. # Session Close: Thu Apr 10 00:00:00 2008

The end :)