/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-04-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Apr 10 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-183-4.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  4. # [00:02] <Hixie> i'm just saying that we can't prevent them from adding this feature
  5. # [00:02] <Hixie> so we should specify it carefully with them, to ensure that it addressed real Web concerns and is the best thing for the Web
  6. # [00:02] <othermaciej> I don't strongly care if they add the feature, or if the spec adds it
  7. # [00:02] <annevk> (Having said that, I'd actually like to trim DOM Level 3 Events... Namespaces for instance...)
  8. # [00:02] <othermaciej> I would like to understand the use case to make sure we design the right feature for the job
  9. # [00:04] <othermaciej> (if the job is "avoid IE memory leaks" then I think the right feature for the job does not involve any new API)
  10. # [00:04] <othermaciej> (but maybe Travis has more details for us)
  11. # [00:14] <annevk> MathML 3 uses xml:id...
  12. # [00:16] <takkaria> where's MS talking about extensions to DOM3? what have I missed? :)
  13. # [00:16] <annevk> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Apr/
  14. # [00:17] <takkaria> ah, thanks
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  17. # [00:20] <roc> hmm
  18. # [00:21] <roc> does that mean IE8 is doing DOM2 events?
  19. # [00:21] <annevk> maybe, though i'd expect IE9
  20. # [00:23] <roc> working on IE9 already?
  21. # [00:24] <annevk> no idea :)
  22. # [00:24] <annevk> i catch your drift now, if it's customer request IE8 might be more plausible
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  26. # [00:32] <Hixie> i don't think i can recall any time microsoft has asked for a new feature without saying it was a customer request -- i don't think they do anything to their platform that isn't directly requested by customers
  27. # [00:33] <Hixie> so that can't distinguish between IE8 and 9
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  37. # [01:18] <Hixie> only 12000 lines to go
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  39. # [01:45] <jgraham> Hixie: In the (R)CDATA processing algorithm, what are you supposed to do with any EOF token at the end? Process it in the current mode or ignore it?
  40. # [01:46] <jgraham> Oh, wait a sec. I think the bug I have is somewhere else
  41. # [01:46] <jgraham> You process it, right?
  42. # [01:46] <jgraham> (otherwise <body> might not be generated)
  43. # [01:46] <Hixie> yes
  44. # [01:47] <Hixie> (and you get a parse error for seeing it)
  45. # [01:47] <Hixie> iirc
  46. # [01:56] <jgraham> All our tree construction tests pass again (at last!)
  47. # [01:57] <jgraham> just a few lxp issues to fix and we can do a release
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  60. # [02:45] <andersca> Hixie?
  61. # [02:49] <Hixie> yo
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  64. # [03:01] <andersca> Hixie: in the cache update algorithm
  65. # [03:01] <andersca> Hixie: is there any reason why step 22 and 23 aren't say, after step 15?
  66. # [03:03] <Hixie> nope
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  69. # [03:23] <bradee-oh> Hixie: around still?
  70. # [03:25] <Hixie> yep
  71. # [03:26] <bradee-oh> Hixie: should there be an onstorage attribute in the spec for storage events? IE8 seems to have taken it upon themselves to have one
  72. # [03:26] <Hixie> yeah, i haven't yet added the onfoo attributes for new events
  73. # [03:26] <Hixie> feel free to add one
  74. # [03:27] <Hixie> to your implementation, i mean
  75. # [03:27] <bradee-oh> Hixie: okay - so a followup is...
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  77. # [03:28] <bradee-oh> Hixie: that we find it curious that the storageevents are fired directly to the body element
  78. # [03:28] <Hixie> as opposed to what?
  79. # [03:29] <bradee-oh> well, it seems the event doesn't belong to any particular element and is more of a window-level event. like onload/unload and etc
  80. # [03:29] * bradee-oh shrugs
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  82. # [03:29] <Hixie> right
  83. # [03:29] <Hixie> <body onload>
  84. # [03:29] <Hixie> <body onstorage>
  85. # [03:29] <Hixie> or whatever the event is called
  86. # [03:29] <Hixie> no?
  87. # [03:31] <bradee-oh> Hixie: so <body onload> has this weird behavior where you declare it on the body element, but it's fired on the window
  88. # [03:31] <bradee-oh> Hixie: is that what onstorage should be too?
  89. # [03:31] <Hixie> that varies based on the UA
  90. # [03:32] <Hixie> i was vaguely hoping to just make all the UAs fire everything on body and have them all bubble to window, or something
  91. # [03:32] <Hixie> i haven't yet looked at that in detail, that's one reason i haven't added onstorage, etc
  92. # [03:32] <bradee-oh> interesting
  93. # [03:32] <bradee-oh> okay
  94. # [03:32] <Hixie> the idea is to be consistent throughout
  95. # [03:32] <Hixie> but UAs vary as it is, so...
  96. # [03:32] <bradee-oh> alright
  97. # [03:32] <bradee-oh> interesting
  98. # [03:33] <bradee-oh> Hixie: okay, well right now, I'll add onstorage and have it act exactly like the other <body> level onfoo events
  99. # [03:33] <bradee-oh> Hixie: and we'll be on the lookout for clarification in the spec ;)
  100. # [03:35] <Hixie> k
  101. # [03:35] <Hixie> thanks
  102. # [03:36] <bradee-oh> k thx bai
  103. # [03:36] <bradee-oh> :)
  104. # [03:39] <andersca> Hixie: thank you
  105. # [03:39] <Hixie> np
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  133. # [07:10] * dbaron_ reports a bug in acid3
  134. # [07:10] * dbaron_ is now known as dbaron
  135. # [07:20] <bradee-oh> dbaron: what bug would that be?
  136. # [07:20] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2008Apr/0036.html
  137. # [07:28] <othermaciej> looks like we'll be back to 99/100...
  138. # [07:30] <othermaciej> (I wonder what bug in WebKit leads us to pass that test)
  139. # [07:32] <othermaciej> hmm I don't think I understand media query sytax
  140. # [07:32] <Hixie> yeah the more i learn about media queries the less i like them
  141. # [07:32] <Hixie> sheesh
  142. # [07:33] <othermaciej> shouldn't these also match:
  143. # [07:33] <othermaciej> oh wait never mind I was probably looking at ones that are syntax errors
  144. # [07:34] <othermaciej> I was thinking "@media all, all and min-color: 0" should match, but it needs the parens, right?
  145. # [07:34] <othermaciej> is "@media (min-color: 0) and (min-monochrome: 0)" a syntax error?
  146. # [07:35] <othermaciej> or is a media type required to be the first part of the query?
  147. # [07:36] <dbaron> it's possible that WebKit/Opera don't implement the monochrome feature at all
  148. # [07:36] <dbaron> which would make them pass
  149. # [07:38] <othermaciej> no, I think we do implement the monochrome feature
  150. # [07:38] <othermaciej> but we always fail if the screen is not monochrome
  151. # [07:39] <othermaciej> (which it normally is not)
  152. # [07:39] <othermaciej> I guess we need to special-case 0
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  154. # [07:40] <dbaron> othermaciej, well, the spec says 0 should be special-cased when matching features without values like (monochrome)
  155. # [07:40] <dbaron> othermaciej, and then the value of the monochrome feature is 0
  156. # [07:42] <othermaciej> yeah our code already has no-value special cases
  157. # [07:42] <roc> what if the window spans two screens and one is monochrome and the other one isn't!
  158. # [07:42] <othermaciej> the logic for monochrome is just wrong, I think
  159. # [07:42] <othermaciej> as is color
  160. # [07:42] <othermaciej> though in a different way
  161. # [07:42] <othermaciej> color: 1 would match even on a monochrome screen
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  163. # [07:43] <Hixie> hm
  164. # [07:43] <Hixie> doesn't making the media optional mean we lose the back-compat with html4?
  165. # [07:43] <dbaron> othermaciej, you're saying that's your bug that it would match, right?
  166. # [07:43] <othermaciej> dbaron: yes
  167. # [07:43] <Hixie> i guess that was thrown out as a design constraint
  168. # [07:43] <dbaron> Hixie, yeah, I was a little surprised when Håkon proposed that...
  169. # [07:44] <dbaron> Hixie, but it is cleaner to write once it's implemented
  170. # [07:44] <Hixie> fair enough
  171. # [07:44] <dbaron> Hixie, so it sort of makes sense as a long-term thing, at least
  172. # [07:44] <Hixie> do you mind if i just test the changed stuff? we already have one test that was just changed when the spec was errated, instead of removing the test
  173. # [07:44] <Hixie> it's not ideal
  174. # [07:45] <Hixie> but it's better for interop on the long run
  175. # [07:45] <Hixie> and i'm sure opera and webkit won't mind
  176. # [07:45] <dbaron> btw, the Acid3 media queries test primarily tests the two features that are hardest for us to implement...
  177. # [07:45] <dbaron> you mean, change the tests to say that they should match?
  178. # [07:45] <dbaron> I don't mind.
  179. # [07:45] <Hixie> k
  180. # [07:45] <dbaron> You should probably ask Opera and WebKit folks.
  181. # [07:45] <Hixie> i will, don't worry
  182. # [07:46] <Hixie> i wanted to test more of the stuff for media queries, but it's very hard to test in an automated fashion across multiple devices
  183. # [07:46] <Hixie> what are the cases that are hard to implement?
  184. # [07:46] <dbaron> color/monochrome
  185. # [07:47] <dbaron> We'd have to figure out the right platform APIs for getting that stuff
  186. # [07:47] <dbaron> particularly fun for printers
  187. # [07:47] <dbaron> which is where it really matters
  188. # [07:47] <dbaron> of course, with printers, you don't always know
  189. # [07:47] <Hixie> ah, yeah
  190. # [07:47] <dbaron> you probably just pretend print-to-PDF is printing to a color device
  191. # [07:47] <Hixie> printers will make that hard indeed
  192. # [07:47] <dbaron> but in many cases you actually do know
  193. # [07:47] <dbaron> and it's actually a pretty useful feature
  194. # [07:48] <dbaron> and in some cases print-to-file APIs are associated with a particular printer
  195. # [07:48] <dbaron> but getting all that stuff right is probably as much work as all the rest of media queries
  196. # [07:48] <dbaron> (getting all that stuff right x 3 platforms)
  197. # [07:49] <dbaron> well, maybe not for somebody who knows the platform APIs well
  198. # [07:49] <Hixie> hey, i think the min-color/min-monochrome stuff is mostly wrong because i meant to use max-, heh
  199. # [07:50] <dbaron> I was thinking you might have meant min-color: 1
  200. # [07:50] <dbaron> which is the opposite of max-color: 0
  201. # [07:51] <Hixie> i guess some of the tests should be max and some min, if i have :0
  202. # [07:53] <dbaron> anyway, I should head home
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  213. # [08:44] <tomg> does gecko hate me?
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  217. # [09:16] <dbaron> tomg, why would you think that?
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  229. # [09:53] <met_> annevk, do you know something about WF2 form prefilling in Opera? I am not able to make it works. Was it implemented?
  230. # [09:54] <met_> When i set form data attr, the url is download, but the form is not filled
  231. # [09:59] <mpt> I have a proposal for English5: The words "not" and "now" should differ by more than a single letter.
  232. # [10:05] <Hixie> can't change that
  233. # [10:05] <Hixie> it would break back compat
  234. # [10:05] * Hixie ducks
  235. # [10:15] <othermaciej> do we really need to be able to support *all* existing English documents?
  236. # [10:16] <othermaciej> English5 seems like a great time to clean up some of the messy warts of the language
  237. # [10:19] <Hixie> user agents aren't going to implement english5 if it doesn't handle existing english documents
  238. # [10:19] <Hixie> including all the legacy crap that's out there
  239. # [10:20] <zcorpan_> define "not" and "now" the same so either can be used, and let the UA work out the semantics by context
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  241. # [10:27] <othermaciej> the problem is that we left semantics to the content
  242. # [10:27] <othermaciej> it needs to be in the markup so tools can process it
  243. # [10:27] <othermaciej> <span role="negation">not</span>
  244. # [10:27] <othermaciej> now *that's* machine-parseable
  245. # [10:28] <Hixie> but we have to define the processing for legacy documents too
  246. # [10:28] <Hixie> at which point, we don't need new syntax
  247. # [10:28] <Pavlov> well
  248. # [10:28] <Hixie> (i wouldn't try the "that's a horrific design idea" argument on that one, which is the real argument)
  249. # [10:28] <Hixie> (because people don't seem to like being told their design sucks!)
  250. # [10:29] <othermaciej> yes, but at least new authors could write clear, unambiguous documents using the superior new markup
  251. # [10:29] <othermaciej> and some user agents will be able to omit the code for legacy document heuristics
  252. # [10:30] <Hixie> well we can try it as a microformat, and if that is successful, then i would fully agree to add it to the spec
  253. # [10:30] <Pavlov> we could just have a codepoint for all words
  254. # [10:30] <Hixie> Pavlov: you mean like CJK? :-)
  255. # [10:30] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@ti200710a340-2662.bb.online.no) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  256. # [10:31] <Pavlov> itw ould have to be bigger than that
  257. # [10:31] <hsivonen> hendry: http://blog.ciarang.com/posts/mobile-web-acceleration/
  258. # [10:32] <othermaciej> all we need is a way to embed arbitrary markup in English
  259. # [10:32] <othermaciej> then authors can use RDFa to clearly express their semantics
  260. # [10:32] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-e6fdda8c0b40e489)
  261. # [10:32] <othermaciej> just think of the accessibility benefits of defining the specific sense of homophones
  262. # [10:32] <Hixie> do you have a concrete proposal for how to embed arbitrary markup in english?
  263. # [10:33] <Pavlov> adjectives and adverbs
  264. # [10:33] <hsivonen> I thought embedding French and Latin in English is already supported.
  265. # [10:33] <hsivonen> does it need to support all vocabularies?
  266. # [10:33] <Pavlov> depends on the word and politics
  267. # [10:34] <othermaciej> Hixie: just start with the characters <xml> and end with </xml>
  268. # [10:34] <othermaciej> this should avoid legacy embedding problems, since XML Expert 1.0 already will parse such content as XML
  269. # [10:34] <Hixie> that's a great idea, unfortunately it isn't backwards compatible with legacy UAs
  270. # [10:34] <Hixie> nor is it compatible with legacy documents
  271. # [10:34] <Pavlov> Hixie: just make a new spec v1.0 that no one implements
  272. # [10:34] <Hixie> which already use the string "<xml>" sometimes unpaired
  273. # [10:35] <Hixie> and which would therefore cause entire documents to fail to render correctly
  274. # [10:35] <Hixie> Pavlov: :-P
  275. # [10:35] <othermaciej> you're just trying to be difficult because you hate clarity of meaning
  276. # [10:35] <Hixie> if that one was sent to public-html instead of whatwg, i'd just ignore it :-)
  277. # [10:36] <Pavlov> Hixie: the other option is just call it svg 2.0
  278. # [10:37] <Hixie> Pavlov: yeah well so far my 1.0 specs (pingback) have been successful, my 2.0 specs (xbl) have gotten the response "we'll implement that _next_ year for sure!", and my 5.0 specs (html) have been reported to be leading to the end of civilisation as we know it
  279. # [10:38] * Joins: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acdd162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  280. # [10:39] <Hixie> Pavlov: so i prefer your 1.0 plan :-P
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  284. # [10:57] <hendry> hsivonen: I'm registered for Xtech'08 btw. I had to do it by FAX as their registration system didn't work for me. :}
  285. # [11:00] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  286. # [11:03] <othermaciej> clearly no one here cares about semantics, I hope the Lojban2 working group hurries up with their critical work
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  293. # [11:48] <annevk> I didn't even know Acid3 was testing "(bogus), all"
  294. # [11:48] <annevk> It is indeed pretty clear that that matches in a recent media query draft...
  295. # [11:52] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  296. # [11:54] <Hixie> well
  297. # [11:54] <Hixie> i just beat my own record
  298. # [11:54] <Hixie> and sent an e-mail out that was 3363 lines long
  299. # [11:55] <takkaria> oo, the issues graph should look good after that
  300. # [11:58] <Hixie> 138KB e-mail
  301. # [11:58] <Hixie> of PURE TEXT
  302. # [11:58] <annevk> 4 times :p
  303. # [11:59] <annevk> actually, 5 I guess
  304. # [11:59] <Hixie> probably, i bcc'ed you
  305. # [11:59] <Hixie> along with about half the population of the earth
  306. # [11:59] <takkaria> that would be an insane amount of bandwidth to consume
  307. # [12:00] <takkaria> I estimate ~376PB
  308. # [12:01] <Hixie> multicast, baby
  309. # [12:01] <takkaria> :)
  310. # [12:01] * annevk wonders when spec editors will get their own youtube channels to announce changes to the world
  311. # [12:02] <Hixie> i've considered it for the acid3 test
  312. # [12:02] <Hixie> but i'm too lazy
  313. # [12:04] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  314. # [12:07] <Hixie> 620 messages expunged from folder "INBOX.input-for-whatwg-html-parsing-rules-namespaces-discussion"
  315. # [12:07] <Hixie> the graph will indeed look nice tomorrow
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  320. # [12:22] <annevk> Hmm, I just realized the proposal does not allow for common gradient definitions in the head element...
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  324. # [12:31] <met_> annevk, just testing wf2 from prefiling in Opera. And it doen's work for me. There is message in console "Will not load form seed data from other domains." Do you know about some bug there?
  325. # [12:33] <annevk> and you're trying to do it same-origin?
  326. # [12:33] <met_> yes, see example http://tmp.met.cz/wf2/form.html
  327. # [12:34] <annevk> no, please file a bug
  328. # [12:34] <annevk> I have never really tested that part of WF2 because it required some server-side stuff to set up. :(
  329. # [12:35] <met_> I have triet it for some of my HTML5 presentation and was suprised it doesn't work
  330. # [12:35] <met_> i am not familiar with opera bugreporting, assuming this is the right place https://bugs.opera.com/wizard/
  331. # [12:36] <met_> wonder no http://bugzilla.opera.com/ 8-)
  332. # [12:36] <annevk> yeah, the former :)
  333. # [12:46] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net)
  334. # [13:02] <zcorpan_> Hixie: in your reply to Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Robert O'Callahan, it seems you didn't end the sentence: "This is one reason I have "
  335. # [13:03] <jruderman> that sounds like a perfectly good garden-path sentence
  336. # [13:03] <jruderman> meaning something like "i have at least one reason. this is one of them."
  337. # [13:03] <zcorpan_> :)
  338. # [13:06] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  339. # [13:06] <zcorpan_> btw, innerHTML doesn't support the foreign lands
  340. # [13:06] <zcorpan_> or does it?
  341. # [13:06] <zcorpan_> not svg camelcase certainly
  342. # [13:07] <annevk> no?
  343. # [13:07] <zcorpan_> uh
  344. # [13:07] <zcorpan_> it does
  345. # [13:07] <annevk> there is one bug, EOF
  346. # [13:07] * annevk e-mails
  347. # [13:08] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl081-048-145.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  348. # [13:09] <annevk> EOF should probably be handled like end tags
  349. # [13:10] * zcorpan_ doesn't follow what the problem is
  350. # [13:10] <annevk> every insertion mode needs to deal with EOF nowadays
  351. # [13:13] <zcorpan_> ah
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  353. # [13:19] <annevk> zcorpan_, btw, http://wiki.html5.org/ works now
  354. # [13:24] <zcorpan_> annevk: cool
  355. # [13:24] * zcorpan_ reads "If anyone is actually reading this 3363 line e-mail, I'm impressed. Please do let me know that you read this."
  356. # [13:25] <zcorpan_> Hixie: i'm reading it :P
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  358. # [13:48] <hsivonen> I read it.
  359. # [13:48] * Quits: tndH (i=Rob@adsl-87-102-77-74.karoo.KCOM.COM) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  360. # [13:49] * annevk didn't
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  362. # [13:49] * tndH_ is now known as tndH
  363. # [13:50] <annevk> hsivonen, have you already complained about xml:id in MathML 3?
  364. # [13:51] <hsivonen> annevk: I think I haven't. Please do complain so I don't have to.
  365. # [13:51] * Joins: svl (n=me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  366. # [13:51] <annevk> It seems xml:id in SVG 1.2 and MathML 3.0 is sort of problematic for HTML 5
  367. # [13:52] <hsivonen> yeah
  368. # [13:54] <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/painting.html#StrokeDasharrayProperty
  369. # [13:55] <annevk> shepazu, ww?
  370. # [13:55] <shepazu> yup, thanks
  371. # [13:58] <Philip`> Could someone please implement <math contenteditable>?
  372. # [14:00] <Philip`> (I won't dare ask for <svg contenteditable>)
  373. # [14:01] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-4cd51640e5ccb287)
  374. # [14:02] <annevk> Yeah, we should check what global attributes that HTML, MathML, and SVG have make sense to "superglobalize".
  375. # [14:04] <shepazu> Philip`: I seem to recall someone doing that... maybe an experimental WebKit?
  376. # [14:05] <othermaciej> doing what?
  377. # [14:06] <othermaciej> it might be possible to make SVG editable but you'd only be able to edit the text
  378. # [14:06] <shepazu> right
  379. # [14:07] <Philip`> Just embed Inkscape
  380. # [14:07] <annevk> hsivonen, done (MathML and xml:id thingie)
  381. # [14:08] <hsivonen> annevk: thanks
  382. # [14:11] <Lachy> annevk, wiki.html5.org needs a better logo
  383. # [14:12] <annevk> yes, donations accepted :)
  384. # [14:13] <Lachy> I'll see if I can find someone with some design skills
  385. # [14:13] <annevk> (though it does get the transparency right where the WHATWG logo/favicon doesn't, imo)
  386. # [14:21] <Philip`> Given the size of Hixie's email, I'm glad we've got past the stage of quoting somebody and adding "+1"
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  389. # [14:39] <gsnedders> Philip`: +1
  390. # [14:40] * Quits: deane (n=dean@202-74-215-106.ue.woosh.co.nz) ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]")
  391. # [14:43] <Philip`> Hixie: You wrote "I recommend that the MathML community make available large, comprehensive, high-quality test suites for presentational MathML, [unexpected end of paragraph]"
  392. # [14:44] <Philip`> Also it doesn't seem true to say that only one (browser) vendor supports MathML, since some Opera releases do (even though its support is pretty rubbish)
  393. # [14:47] <Philip`> (Also it makes it sound like the only vendors that exist (or that matter) are browser vendors, which some other vendors would disagree with)
  394. # [14:49] * gsnedders notes being in here isn't helping his school work
  395. # [14:49] <gsnedders> But I'd probably just find another way to procrastinate if I wasn't here.
  396. # [14:50] <Philip`> It's not like anything is actually happening in here, so it shouldn't be that distracting
  397. # [14:51] <Lachy> annevk, I found a friend who may be willing to make a better logo for the wiki. He's going to think about it and should send me a few ideas later
  398. # [14:52] <zcorpan_> i think the wiki needs content -- not a logo
  399. # [14:53] * gsnedders suggests <http://stuff.gsnedders.com/me/full.jpg> as a logo :P
  400. # [14:55] <gsnedders> or is that too hideous?
  401. # [14:55] <annevk> zcorpan_, with good logos content will come, don't you know? :)
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  404. # [15:12] <zcorpan_> annevk: oh, carry on then :)
  405. # [15:17] <Philip`> Hixie: "I'm not sure what an immediate-mode math API would look like!" - I think it could look like "var x = 1 + 1; var y = Math.pow(x, 2);"
  406. # [15:17] <Philip`> although I suppose that's not so useful if you want an immediate-mode math rendering API instead
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  410. # [15:40] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/2008/03/31-aria-math-minutes.html
  411. # [15:40] <annevk> was that already posted here? it seems to be a public resource
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  435. # [16:57] <Philip`> (Hixie: I read your whole email too :-) )
  436. # [17:22] <gsnedders> Hixie: why do the ack have a "being edited right now" note?
  437. # [17:23] <gsnedders> is that really worthwhile having>
  438. # [17:23] <gsnedders> s/>/?/
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  451. # [19:04] <Hixie> oops. So in my 3000 line e-mail, s/This is one reason I have $//, and s/for presentational MathML,$/for presentational MathML./
  452. # [19:04] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@c-71-198-176-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  453. # [19:04] <Hixie> gsnedders: i just use that section to check the being edited mode works :-)
  454. # [19:04] <gsnedders> ah :)
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  464. # [20:09] <Hixie> well i guess for all the complaining about html5, we're still doing better than ooxml
  465. # [20:09] <Hixie> at least we haven't had people actually protesting in the streets
  466. # [20:11] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.172)
  467. # [20:12] <andersca> lo
  468. # [20:12] <andersca> l
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  470. # [20:24] <gsnedders> Hixie: HTML5 sux. 2 > 5.
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  474. # [21:35] <Philip`> Someone should make a validator that warns you if it looks like you've got double-encoded UTF-8 in your document
  475. # [21:35] <Philip`> (since I noticed http://www.csseleven.com/ has that problem)
  476. # [21:53] <Hixie> you mean UTF-8 interpreted as ISO-8859-1 and reencoded as UTF-8?
  477. # [21:56] <annevk> finally, new charter for WebAPI/WebApps group
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  480. # [22:10] <Philip`> Hixie: Yes
  481. # [22:11] <Hixie> tell hsivonen :-)
  482. # [22:11] <Philip`> hsivonen: You should make a validator that warns you if it looks like you've got double-encoded UTF-8 in your document :-)
  483. # [22:12] <Philip`> (It seems like not an uncommon problem, including from the kind of people who validate their pages)
  484. # [22:12] <hsivonen> Philip`: good idea
  485. # [22:13] * Quits: davidb (n=davidb@bas4-toronto06-1279311940.dsl.bell.ca)
  486. # [22:13] <hsivonen> http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=151
  487. # [22:14] <Philip`> hsivonen: Thanks :-)
  488. # [22:23] <annevk> ah, I encountered http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=48 earlier today :)
  489. # [22:23] <annevk> it's nice that all open bugs fit on one page
  490. # [22:24] <annevk> hsivonen, isn't 22 fixed?
  491. # [22:25] <Philip`> Web pages can be infinitely long, so that isn't a particularly impressive property :-p
  492. # [22:28] <hsivonen> annevk: yes, 22 is fixed. Thanks.
  493. # [22:30] <annevk> Philip`, blah, it's nice there's only 72 bugs
  494. # [22:30] * jgraham notes that practical limitations prevent webpages being infinitely long
  495. # [22:32] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  496. # [22:33] * Philip` wonders what those practical limitations are
  497. # [22:34] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)")
  498. # [22:35] <Philip`> You could do e.g. 'print "<body>"; print "<script>document.body.removeChild(document.body.firstChild)</script>" while 1' and the browser shouldn't ever run out of memory
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  509. # [23:39] <Hixie> haha, i just worked out why the src="KDE%20Light%20desktop.png" screenshot is the one i used as the example of a screenshot in the spec
  510. # [23:39] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  511. # [23:39] <Hixie> it's the example screenshot used on the wikipedia page for "Screenshot" which is the first google hit for the word "Screenshot"
  512. # [23:47] <Philip`> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/04/10/html-and-dom-standards-compliance-in-ie8-beta-1.aspx
  513. # [23:48] <annevk> Hixie, http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html seems broken (besides the bug on using clientX/Y rather than pageX/Y
  514. # [23:49] <hsivonen> there's blank line in the raw data
  515. # [23:49] <annevk> yeah
  516. # [23:49] * Philip` notices that the blog post uses the same "content attribute" and "DOM attribute" terminology as HTML5
  517. # [23:50] <Hixie> oops
  518. # [23:52] <hsivonen> wow. all-time low since the start of the graph
  519. # [23:54] <jgraham> Philip`: You couldn't keep the computer running for ever
  520. # [23:56] * Quits: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acam166.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) ("Leaving")
  521. # Session Close: Fri Apr 11 00:00:00 2008

The end :)