/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-06-05 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jun 05 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:23] * gsnedders wishes Mozilla supported display: run-in
  8. # [00:23] <gsnedders> I mean, even IE8 does! :P
  9. # [00:23] <gsnedders> (There again, that doesn't have a ten year old layout engine in standards mode)
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  12. # [00:35] <roc> you're the first person I've ever heard ask for it
  13. # [00:35] <Dashiva> gsnedders: inline-block only took 10 years, cut them some slack :)
  14. # [00:36] <gsnedders> roc: Heh. I use it on the print layout of my blog, though as Philip` will undoubtedly point out if he sees this, nobody prints blogs.
  15. # [00:36] <gsnedders> (Prince is actually the only thing that gets the print version of my blog right)
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  17. # [00:37] <gsnedders> Dashiva: the run-in bug will be 10 in Dec :P
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  19. # [00:38] <Philip`> gsnedders: I suppose some people might print some blogs, when they're running out of toilet paper
  20. # [00:38] * gsnedders sighs
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  22. # [00:42] <Philip`> It's really quite convenient how computers have a button that causes paper to be extruded at you
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  53. # [03:27] <Philip`> Will any browser ever implement renameNode?
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  55. # [03:28] <jruderman> i hope not
  56. # [03:29] <jruderman> it sounds evil
  57. # [03:33] <Philip`> I can imagine it interacting kind of badly with the parser, like if you write <i id=a><script>document.renameNode(document.getElementById('a'), 'http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml', 'b')</script></b>whoo
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  62. # [03:43] <jwalden> "renameNode"?
  63. # [03:43] * jwalden hits the Google
  64. # [03:44] <jwalden> ah, nonstandard
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  66. # [03:48] <heycam> renameNode is dom3 core
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  68. # [04:03] <roc> the document "List of vents (SVG 1.2)" isn't as interesting as it sounds
  69. # [04:04] <heycam> haha
  70. # [04:05] <roc> wow
  71. # [04:05] <roc> that sounds hellish
  72. # [04:05] <othermaciej> roc: it's allowed to replace the node, I think
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  74. # [04:06] <roc> that helps, but it's still hellish
  75. # [04:06] <othermaciej> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Core/core.html#Document3-renameNode
  76. # [04:06] <roc> I'm reading it
  77. # [04:06] <othermaciej> I don't think we have it in WebKit
  78. # [04:06] <othermaciej> it sounds pretty crazy indeed
  79. # [04:07] <othermaciej> I think Web DOM Core should drop it
  80. # [04:07] <roc> amen
  81. # [04:10] <roc> if they keep it, it really needs to specify how renameNode affects hidden DOM state like <iframe> subdocuments and form elements
  82. # [04:10] <roc> and whether references to the old node are redirected to the new node
  83. # [04:11] <roc> and it sounds like the decision about whether to rename or create could have observable effects, which means leaving that decision undefined is a big interop problem
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  89. # [04:30] <othermaciej> yes, having it undefined whether to create a new node or somehow rename one in-place seems terrible
  90. # [04:33] <othermaciej> and having the method at all when the common case is to create a new node (which I think it must be, changing an element's class on the fly just sounds like crazy-land) then it is misleading to have the API at all
  91. # [04:39] <Dashiva> And if there's any case for renaming inplace, maybe those elements could've been better handled collapsed with a @type
  92. # [04:41] <othermaciej> I can imagine cases where it might be useful, it just seems really impractical to do for real
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  145. # [09:10] * annevk wonders what 5ce9134be8a642e1fbf3b93593da33e9 means
  146. # [09:11] <hdh> firefox accepts Content-Encoding: SHA-1?
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  151. # [09:27] <jwalden> annevk: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2007/01/ec06b3461cf0eaf.html may help
  152. # [09:27] <jwalden> an extremely low-down, dastardly way to annoy everybody, I say
  153. # [09:28] <hsivonen> jwalden: has roc published that previous time capsule yet?
  154. # [09:28] <jwalden> I don't think he's published any of them
  155. # [09:28] <hsivonen> ok. are there more than two now?
  156. # [09:29] <jwalden> I think this is the third, lemme check
  157. # [09:31] <jwalden> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2007/12/e0f4ffc0ddc898c.html
  158. # [09:32] <hsivonen> thanks
  159. # [09:32] <jwalden> those are all
  160. # [09:32] <hsivonen> no announced ETA for the revelation of any of them :-(
  161. # [09:33] <jwalden> I seem to recall IRC discussion that suggested to me that at least one of them would never be published unless "something" went really, really, devastatingly bad
  162. # [09:33] <hsivonen> hmm.
  163. # [09:33] <jwalden> as I said, full-blown underhandedness
  164. # [09:35] <doublec> we tried to get it out of him in the office today but he's a tough nut to crack
  165. # [09:36] <jwalden> yes, he's definitely a nut all right, completely agree
  166. # [09:41] <jwalden> also, http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2006/05/23/604743.aspx
  167. # [09:42] <jwalden> which was revealed, eventually
  168. # [09:42] <jwalden> http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2006/12/29/1379914.aspx
  169. # [09:46] <hsivonen> hmm. can't do <kbd> on whatwg wiki
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  173. # [10:00] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I see that v.nu is now reporting duplicate IDs
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  175. # [10:02] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: yeah, I fixed that
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  177. # [10:02] <hsivonen> <a name> in HTML 4.01 / XHTML 1.0 checking is still broken, though
  178. # [10:03] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK
  179. # [10:03] <MikeSmith> the dupe ID thing is nice
  180. # [10:03] <MikeSmith> I caught a couple that I had in the HTML5 publication notes doc
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  188. # [10:19] <Hixie> renameNode should be required to replace
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  208. # [11:56] <hsivonen> Hixie: valid hashed reference is not defined as having to match an id value, but now name is required on map
  209. # [11:57] <hsivonen> roc: fwiw, I've used run-in in published non-test-case Web content (Re: IRC log)
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  211. # [12:00] <Philip`> http://www.hobi.com/ uses display:run-in, though seemingly to avoid an Opera bug
  212. # [12:00] <hsivonen> I used it in http://hsivonen.iki.fi/thesis/html5-conformance-checker to conform to a LaTeX emulation requirement set by the professor
  213. # [12:00] <Philip`> ((That bug seems fixed in 9.5))
  214. # [12:01] <Philip`> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml+voice/ uses it too
  215. # [12:02] <Philip`> though probably they didn't test that page in a browser that supported it, since their References section looks ugly in Opera
  216. # [12:02] <annevk> given the people on the editor's list, I'd be surprised
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  220. # [12:14] <Philip`> annevk: I'd still be surprised if they could have tested it in Opera, since the run-in list is inconsistently and nastily spaced, and I can't believe that was intentional :-)
  221. # [12:14] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@dsl027-178-204.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  222. # [12:14] <Philip`> Hmm, those pages are the only two out of 130K with display:run-in in inline stylesheets
  223. # [12:16] <othermaciej> does any browser support display:run-in?
  224. # [12:16] <othermaciej> I guess webkit might
  225. # [12:16] <othermaciej> but display: run-in is sort of a microcosm of what is wrong with CSS
  226. # [12:16] <othermaciej> it is so special-casey it is kind of ridiculous
  227. # [12:17] <hsivonen> othermaciej: Safari and Opera support it, and it seems it has regressed in WebKit nightlies
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  231. # [12:27] <zcorpan> Hixie: i think now is a pretty good time to add the new elements to the html parser (<nav>, <source>, etc)
  232. # [12:28] <hsivonen> looks like the regression I'm seeing is like https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12522 but without the printing aspect
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  236. # [12:38] * annevk agrees with zcorpan
  237. # [12:39] <annevk> zcorpan, is there an issue so we can put at the top of http://www.whatwg.org/issues/top ? :)
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  249. # [13:03] <zcorpan> annevk: i don't remember if there's an email about it
  250. # [13:07] <annevk> nope
  251. # [13:07] <zcorpan> haha, there's a folder "zzz"
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  257. # [15:18] <annevk> apparently there's also one called aaa-productity or something
  258. # [15:18] <annevk> euh, aaa-productivity
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  261. # [15:35] <gsnedders> annevk: so, what? It makes you more productive?
  262. # [15:43] <MikeSmith> jgraham_: thanks for your support on the issue-tracker discussion
  263. # [15:43] <MikeSmith> I've added some text to the group home page:
  264. # [15:44] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/#issues
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  271. # [16:24] <zcorpan> hah
  272. # [16:24] <zcorpan> <div/> div.innerHTML = 'x</div>y<div>z';
  273. # [16:25] <zcorpan> doesn't throw in firefox
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  281. # [16:43] <annevk> zcorpan, does it affect the DOM?
  282. # [16:43] <annevk> I mean, how does it?
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  286. # [16:51] <mayhemer> hi, I would like to discuss one misunderstanding from my side of HTML5, 4.7 Offline Web applications spec
  287. # [16:51] <mayhemer> I am not sure when exactly opportunistic namespace matching entries sould be cached
  288. # [16:51] <annevk> feel free, though the right people might not be around
  289. # [16:52] <mayhemer> annevk: do you know namely who I could talk to?
  290. # [16:53] <mayhemer> annevk: it is about offline web applicatoins cache
  291. # [16:59] <annevk> well, you could e-mail the mailing list
  292. # [16:59] <annevk> i'd expect them to be cached during some kind of background process, btw
  293. # [16:59] <mayhemer> I will do, thanks
  294. # [16:59] * annevk looks at the spec
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  298. # [17:09] <closure> anyone know if there is an implementation of the connection interface anywhere yet?
  299. # [17:10] <closure> the spec is still a bit shady in that section.
  300. # [17:10] <zcorpan> annevk: same as div.innerHTML = 'x'
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  302. # [17:12] <annevk> closure, people have been experimenting with it, but nothing native
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  307. # [17:34] <closure> annevk: figures, but is source code available of prototypes?
  308. # [17:36] <closure> especially testsuites.
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  310. # [17:36] <annevk> i don't think so, you're interested in implementing?
  311. # [17:38] <closure> heh, part of my job for google summer of code alas (for es operating system)
  312. # [17:39] <closure> but i might have to postpone that task a little because the spec is still too vague
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  315. # [17:47] <annevk> closure, best course of action is probably to subscribe to the mailing list, make comments on where the spec is vague and say that it has some priority because you want to implement it this summer
  316. # [17:48] <annevk> closure, not guaranteed it works btw, but it's likely your best shot (and if it doesn't work out you'll at least be ensured that your feedback will be addressed at some point in the future)
  317. # [17:49] <closure> i'll probably lurk on the mailing list then, although i do understand it's taking a backseat for now in the spec since it's a new feature
  318. # [17:50] <annevk> the spec is quite implementation driven actually
  319. # [17:52] <annevk> so if browser vendor Y says it needs <canvas> feedback integrated within a few weeks that will actually happen most of the time
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  321. # [17:58] <Philip`> Uh, please s/ctx/canvas/ in my recent email
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  323. # [18:02] <annevk> The two parameter version seems less elegant since it does not apply to all types
  324. # [18:02] <annevk> oh well
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  326. # [18:05] <Philip`> annevk: What types other than PNG and JPEG is anyone ever going to use?
  327. # [18:06] <Philip`> (It doesn't seem a good idea to make JPEG harder to use just because of some hypothetical future that will probably never occur)
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  329. # [18:10] <annevk> Philip`, maybe true, yes
  330. # [18:12] <annevk> the only other problem with the argument version is that implementing it could not be done using a prefixed attribute
  331. # [18:12] * Philip` wonders if it matters if the JPEG quality value is implementation-dependent, so 0.80 could look rubbish in one browser and great in another
  332. # [18:12] <Philip`> annevk: Not quite sure what you mean
  333. # [18:13] <annevk> sorry, if we implemented this before it was standardized we'd basically deadlock the second argument of toDataURL(), but maybe it's not so bad
  334. # [18:14] <Philip`> Nowadays it only takes days to get new features standardised :-)
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  336. # [18:15] <annevk> that'd be nice
  337. # [18:15] <Philip`> Named arguments like canvas.toDataURL('image/jpeg', { quality: 0.8 }) would be nice except they seem to not exist in the DOM and it'd be nicer to avoid unconventionality
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  340. # [18:28] <annevk> Philip`, what exactly is the concern with html5-diff?
  341. # [18:28] <annevk> as it exists with http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/diff/ for instance
  342. # [18:28] <annevk> s/with/at/
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  344. # [18:29] <Philip`> annevk: Ah, I didn't realise that that and http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/ etc all said "html5", and only http://dev.w3.org/html5/html4-differences/ says "html4"
  345. # [18:30] <annevk> I was trying to tell you that :)
  346. # [18:30] <Philip`> Ah, I failed to understand :-)
  347. # [18:30] <annevk> so no problem then, apart from html5-diff versus html5-differences which I'll declare a non-issue :)
  348. # [18:32] <Philip`> I'm happy to accept "html4-differences" as being a deprecated name that only exists in CVS, and CVS makes renaming far too much of a pain to bother with :-)
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  371. # [20:07] <annevk> jgraham_++
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  389. # [21:21] <Philip`> http://meyerweb.com/eric/html-xhtml/html5-linking.html
  390. # [21:23] <Hixie> send mail
  391. # [21:23] <Hixie> but thanks
  392. # [21:23] <Hixie> that's a really useful page
  393. # [21:23] <Hixie> i wonder why eric isn't just posting to the list
  394. # [21:23] <gsnedders> for the code example, it would require @href to have per element specific semantics
  395. # [21:23] <Philip`> The accompanying blog post says "Now, as to why I’m blogging this instead of taking it to one or another of the relevant mailing lists: I’m looking for community input in order to strengthen the document."
  396. # [21:24] <Hixie> the community is on the mailing list...
  397. # [21:24] <Philip`> so I assume he will email it eventually
  398. # [21:24] <Philip`> There is more than one community in the world :-)
  399. # [21:24] <gsnedders> Philip`: We are… teh community!
  400. # [21:24] <Hixie> fair enough
  401. # [21:24] <Hixie> i just hate it when people do things and get it to where they think it's perfect before bringing it to the table
  402. # [21:25] <Hixie> because then if there's a fundamental flaw (like "browsers have already said they'll never do it") then they get all upset that they spent all this time on nothing
  403. # [21:26] <Philip`> Browser developers can change their minds if given sufficiently compelling arguments
  404. # [21:26] <Dashiva> "It would cause browsers to explode and destroy most of our users"
  405. # [21:28] <Philip`> Dashiva: If that were the case, all browser developers should be requesting strongly that the feature should be added to the spec, in the hope that their competitors will foolishly decide to actually implement it and kill their users and lose their market share
  406. # [21:28] <Hixie> that would be unethical
  407. # [21:28] <Hixie> and arguing against browser developers tends to alienate them
  408. # [21:28] <Hixie> i'd like to reserve that for the critical things
  409. # [21:29] <Dashiva> Philip`: That wouldn't work, the web developers would be victimized before they could make their sites public
  410. # [21:31] <Philip`> Dashiva: Not the developers who randomly copy-and-paste bits of tutorials and code from other sites into their own pages, then only test in IE5 and see that it looks kind of alright so they publish it
  411. # [21:31] <gsnedders> But IE5 is awesome!
  412. # [21:31] <Dashiva> But IE is the only browser that could implement it, the other browsers could never get it out as it would fail QA :)
  413. # [21:32] <Philip`> Dashiva: Nobody who experienced the bug would be in a fit state to file a bug report, so the developers would never know there was a problem
  414. # [21:33] <Dashiva> It's not a bug, it's a feature.
  415. # [21:33] <Dashiva> There would be feature testing :)
  416. # [21:33] <gsnedders> I mean, my presence here is a feature, not a bug.
  417. # [21:33] <gsnedders> Right?
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  419. # [21:34] <Dashiva> It's a bug in your use-every-waking-moment-to-study program
  420. # [21:34] <gsnedders> Dashiva: I know I have physics stuff on my lap, but that's because I'm helping a friend in need!
  421. # [21:37] <Dashiva> Philip`: It seems to be using "some new element like link" is a bad example for a new element :)
  422. # [21:38] <Dashiva> *to me
  423. # [21:39] <Philip`> Dashiva: Who suggested a new element like link?
  424. # [21:39] <Dashiva> In Eric's blog post, last case
  425. # [21:39] <Philip`> Oh, I only saw the one about the attribute like link
  426. # [21:41] * Philip` thinks linkable <tr>s seems like the most useful case, since lots of forum systems use that kind of UI (where there's lots of structured information so it's reasonable to use a table, but it ought to be as easy as possible to click on a row to see the corresponding full post)
  427. # [21:42] <Dashiva> I'm not very enthusiastic about linking block elements. I can understand making a <tr> a link, for the same reason I want to make a <tr> be a form. But blocks is just asking for misclicks leading to leaving the page
  428. # [21:42] <Dashiva> And for inline content, <a></a> is only seven characters more. You'd still be using the attributes
  429. # [21:46] * Philip` wonders what elements/attributes Googlebot follows
  430. # [21:49] * Quits: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@dsl027-178-204.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  431. # [21:57] * Joins: svl (n=me@as5300-v8-133.vlp.entelchile.net)
  432. # [22:05] * gsnedders has decided how to be profound
  433. # [22:05] <gsnedders> Write poetry based on what people have searched for and found my site!
  434. # [22:05] <gsnedders> I mean, people search for such profound things.
  435. # [22:07] <Lachy> gsnedders, like what?
  436. # [22:08] <gsnedders> Lachy: I dunno. But it's profound.
  437. # [22:08] <Lachy> ok, whatever.
  438. # [22:09] <gsnedders> Lachy: "why must we love today and to be hurt tomorrow"
  439. # [22:10] <gsnedders> There a lot of things about sexuality, too
  440. # [22:10] <Lachy> wow. what exactly do you have on your site that would make it show up for searches like that?
  441. # [22:10] <gsnedders> Lachy: I don't know.
  442. # [22:11] <gsnedders> Lachy: There's quite a lot of extreme stuff from when I was suicidally depressed last year, though, mostly revolving around love
  443. # [22:12] <gsnedders> "oh therapy can you please fill the void"
  444. # [22:12] <gsnedders> oh, wait. that's actually a Green Day lyric that's quoted on my site.
  445. # [22:12] <Lachy> woah, I didn't know you were suicidal.
  446. # [22:13] <gsnedders> Lachy: I'm not anymore (mostly)
  447. # [22:13] <Lachy> good
  448. # [22:13] <gsnedders> Well, like as much as I have been for most of my life up until last May
  449. # [22:13] <gsnedders> "my teacher said yes when i asked her out" :\
  450. # [22:13] <Lachy> what happened last may?
  451. # [22:14] <gsnedders> Lachy: Stuff
  452. # [22:14] <gsnedders> :)
  453. # [22:14] <gsnedders> (Useless answer, I know)
  454. # [22:14] <Lachy> that's fair enough.
  455. # [22:14] <gsnedders> Only around three people as well as me know the full story. One is a psychologist.
  456. # [22:15] <Philip`> Did the psychologist say yes when you asked him out?
  457. # [22:15] <gsnedders> Philip`: Well, he's married and I haven't asked him.
  458. # [22:16] <Philip`> Oh, okay then
  459. # [22:16] <gsnedders> (Nor do I intend on doing so, might I add)
  460. # [22:16] <gsnedders> Lachy: http://gsnedders.com/about-the-author
  461. # [22:16] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.145)
  462. # [22:17] <gsnedders> Lachy: If you look through all my posts going back to March last year you might start to build up a picture
  463. # [22:17] <gsnedders> (disclaimer: a lot of it contains a lot of quite impolite language)
  464. # [22:19] * gsnedders stares at some more search strings
  465. # [22:19] <gsnedders> "im horny"
  466. # [22:19] <gsnedders> How did _THAT_ find my site?
  467. # [22:20] <gsnedders> "how to be hetrosexual"
  468. # [22:20] <gsnedders> "how to menage a trois"
  469. # [22:21] <Philip`> This is why I disable Referer
  470. # [22:22] <gsnedders> 'fucked "not literally"'
  471. # [22:23] <Lachy> gsnedders, as far as I can tell from that, you're going through the same bad experiences with girls as virtually any other teenager.
  472. # [22:23] <gsnedders> Lachy: That's why I need to properly explain it all
  473. # [22:24] <gsnedders> Well, maybe not it all, but more.
  474. # [22:24] <Philip`> Someone should make a widget thing you can embed in your site, that sends you an IM message every time someone visits your site from a search engine, and if the search terms are interesting then you can reply in real time and your response pops up on the viewer's screen
  475. # [22:24] <gsnedders> Stuff like setting the scene for when it all happened
  476. # [22:24] <Lachy> there was a girl I was in love with back in high school, who I didn't have the guts to ask out, and when the secret finally came out, I was breifly humiliated too.
  477. # [22:25] <Lachy> but, I got over it
  478. # [22:27] <gsnedders> It's ridiculous how many people know who I love now.
  479. # [22:27] <gsnedders> Oh, wow. That's rather profound. "mutability of time" poetry
  480. # [22:27] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  481. # [22:28] * Joins: eseidel (n=eseidel@nat/google/x-c14fa321387c95af)
  482. # [22:28] * Joins: jruderman (n=jruderma@guest-226.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  483. # [22:52] <Hixie> annevk: what Philip` said (re toDataURL())
  484. # [22:54] <annevk> ok, we'll go with that
  485. # [22:55] <annevk> clamp or throw?
  486. # [22:59] * Philip` imagines people will write quality=85
  487. # [23:01] <Hixie> clamp
  488. # [23:09] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.255.100.60)
  489. # [23:11] * Joins: Hixie_ (i=ianh@trivini.no)
  490. # [23:11] * Quits: Hixie_ (i=ianh@trivini.no) (Client Quit)
  491. # [23:11] * Joins: roc (n=roc@202.0.36.64)
  492. # [23:12] <Dashiva> Lachy: You mean when you let the secret out. ;)
  493. # [23:14] <Lachy> Dashiva, of course. But back then, I blamed all the people I had told.
  494. # [23:14] * gsnedders blogs <http://gsnedders.com/love-is-hate>
  495. # [23:15] <gsnedders> I always intend on keeping such things secret. I fail badly, though, especially because I suck a lying about such things
  496. # [23:15] <Dashiva> And because deep inside, you don't want it to be secret?
  497. # [23:16] <Dashiva> gsnedders: What's the subscripts on she and her about?
  498. # [23:16] <Dashiva> To keep different people apart?
  499. # [23:16] <gsnedders> Dashiva: yeah
  500. # [23:16] <gsnedders> Dashiva: Without using names
  501. # [23:16] <Dashiva> You should call them Fooette and Barette
  502. # [23:17] <gsnedders> Dashiva: But that's only two. I need five, currently.
  503. # [23:17] <gsnedders> (The numbers start in May '06, FWIW)
  504. # [23:17] <gsnedders> (There is no him + subscript number, yet)
  505. # [23:18] <Dashiva> How am I + subscript are there? ;)
  506. # [23:18] <Dashiva> s/am/many
  507. # [23:19] <gsnedders> :P
  508. # [23:20] <gsnedders> Dashiva: That's obvious from who's speaking. Who someone in the third person is is unclear, though, without naming them.
  509. # [23:21] * Quits: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acaj14.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) ("Leaving")
  510. # [23:23] * Quits: svl (n=me@as5300-v8-133.vlp.entelchile.net) ("And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.")
  511. # [23:25] <Hixie> "tbl: concerned about the HTML WG and perhaps we are getting all lost in the weeds"
  512. # [23:25] <Hixie> first step to solving a problem is recognising you have one, i guess
  513. # [23:38] <annevk> tagsoup is the tag's biggest issue
  514. # [23:38] <annevk> i like it
  515. # [23:41] * Joins: hasather (n=hasather@90-231-107-133-no62.tbcn.telia.com)
  516. # [23:42] <annevk> http://cafe.elharo.com/category/web/refactoring-html/
  517. # [23:42] <annevk> via simonw
  518. # [23:42] <othermaciej> they should name that issue "selfsoup"
  519. # [23:42] <annevk> under "Why XHTML" it says "XHTML makes life harder for document authors in exchange for making life easier for document consumers."
  520. # [23:45] * Philip` wonders if he can set Apache to do 30x redirects on certain subdirectories in a Subversion repository, to hide those files from users while still allowing them to successfully checkout the parent directory
  521. # [23:47] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/05/20-minutes.html has some bits on RDF and XML
  522. # [23:51] <othermaciej> wow, consuming XHTML is a walk in the park
  523. # [23:52] <othermaciej> I'm glad to learn this new fact
  524. # [23:52] <annevk> besides that it is not really true, shifting the burden from author to implementor is the wrong move
  525. # [23:53] <gsnedders> Well, it's easier in an interpreted language where you have an XML parser built-in but not a HTML one :P
  526. # [23:53] <othermaciej> that's why mobile browsers all only accept XHTML and parse it with a strict XML parser, right?
  527. # [23:53] <othermaciej> because only processing strict XML is so much easier on a lightweight mobile device than arsing tag soup
  528. # [23:53] <annevk> pretty much
  529. # [23:53] <othermaciej> *parsing
  530. # [23:53] <othermaciej> (for those who need it: </sarcasm>)
  531. # [23:54] <mpt> gsnedders, the place to post those is <http://www.disturbingsearchrequests.com/>
  532. # [23:57] <annevk> also http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2008/05/21-minutes.html on distributed extensibility
  533. # Session Close: Fri Jun 06 00:00:00 2008

The end :)