/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-06-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jun 27 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  10. # [00:37] <jgraham> smedero: The html5lib parse tree viewer now reports the version og html5lib it is using (well technically it reports the version of the working copy on the machine which isn't quite the same but it's probably close enough)
  11. # [00:48] * eseidel_ is now known as eseidel
  12. # [00:58] <smedero> thanks!
  13. # [01:01] <smedero> yeah, that works for me at least. hopefully other people find it helpful... :)
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  26. # [01:58] <Hixie> so does anyone else think that opening registration for TLDs is a spectacularily bad idea?
  27. # [01:59] * jcranmer raises his hand
  28. # [01:59] <Hixie> i hope nobody registers a TLD with the same name as any of the machines on my local network
  29. # [01:59] <Lachy> of course it's a terrible idea
  30. # [01:59] <jcranmer> to me, that invites a whole lot of opportunity to fishing
  31. # [01:59] <jcranmer> s/f/ph/
  32. # [01:59] <jcranmer> logon to www.amazon and enter your credentials!
  33. # [02:00] * Lachy goes to register the .paypal TLD...
  34. # [02:02] <Lachy> seriously, though, there are already so many problems with the way the DNS system is managed, it's just one more crazy thing to add to the list.
  35. # [02:02] <Hixie> i don't think i've yet met one person who thinks this is a good idea
  36. # [02:02] <Hixie> yet as far as i can tell it's a done deal
  37. # [02:02] <jacobolus> Hixie: who is planning to open registration for TLD's?
  38. # [02:02] <Hixie> icann
  39. # [02:02] <Hixie> they're not "planning" per se
  40. # [02:02] <Hixie> they've done it, as i understand it
  41. # [02:02] <Hixie> could be wrong
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  43. # [02:03] <Hixie> they still have to work out the details, but other than that, they're committed: http://icann.net/en/announcements/announcement-4-26jun08-en.htm
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  45. # [02:05] <Lachy> at least there is some sort of approval process for each application
  46. # [02:05] <Hixie> that'll last all of a day, i bet
  47. # [02:06] <Hixie> because when they get a million applications, they'll just approve everything
  48. # [02:06] <Lachy> but I can just imagine domain name squatters registerring valuable TLDs, and then selling them off for huge profits later
  49. # [02:08] <jcranmer> Hixie: the solution is simple
  50. # [02:08] <Lachy> it would be better if they did what Australia did with domain names and forbid them to be resold.
  51. # [02:09] <jcranmer> just define an http: or https: URI to have any a select few TLDs
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  53. # [02:11] <Hixie> jcranmer: hrh
  54. # [02:11] <Hixie> heh even
  55. # [02:12] <jcranmer> "A URI's TLD must consist of either a ccTLD or the following TLDs: .com, .net, ..."
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  57. # [02:13] <Hixie> ah well
  58. # [02:13] <Hixie> i guess we'll pool some cash and get .whatwg
  59. # [02:13] <Hixie> then we can have http://html5.whatwg/
  60. # [02:13] <Hixie> and so on
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  62. # [02:15] <roc> another bloody gold rush
  63. # [02:15] <Philip`> http://html.5/
  64. # [02:15] <Hixie> heh
  65. # [02:15] <hober> what.wg
  66. # [02:15] <roc> will they allow IDN in the TLD?
  67. # [02:15] <jcranmer> roc: apparently
  68. # [02:16] <jcranmer> roc: see http://idn.icann.org/#Things_to_test
  69. # [02:16] <roc> God help us all
  70. # [02:16] <Philip`> It's strange that there's an infinite number of possible domain names, and now they're going to allow infinitely more, yet still individual ones are very valuable
  71. # [02:16] <roc> well technically they're not changing the number of available domains
  72. # [02:18] <Philip`> Would this affect http://publicsuffix.org/ much?
  73. # [02:18] <jcranmer> Philip`: you like typing thi5v3ry10ngd0m4inn4m3c0n5i5ting0f4m3d31y0f41ph4num3ric53xi5ting50lelyb3c4u3eth30th3r0n3w45t4k3n?
  74. # [02:18] <jcranmer> .com
  75. # [02:18] <roc> I hope they're really really careful about homographs in TLDs or our whole IDN whitelisting scheme based on TLD is going to sink
  76. # [02:19] <jcranmer> I hope they'll change their mind in a year and revoke all new TLDs
  77. # [02:20] <Philip`> jcranmer: I suppose that's not great, so I'd shorten it to something like http://91.195.35.8
  78. # [02:20] * jcranmer wonders how many sites have a domain name longer than their IP
  79. # [02:20] <Philip`> IPv6 helps solve that problem by swapping the balance
  80. # [02:26] <Hixie> 61%.
  81. # [02:26] <Hixie> getting there.
  82. # [02:27] <jcranmer> 61% and rising or falling?
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  84. # [02:44] <Hixie> rising
  85. # [02:44] <Hixie> and the last 30% are trivial (the parser part doesn't have URLs in it)
  86. # [02:45] <Lachy> http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/26/1814205 the comments have some good suggestions
  87. # [02:47] <Lachy> "ICANN has .cheezburger?" :-)
  88. # [02:49] <roc> mmmm
  89. # [02:49] <roc> http://solitaire.exe
  90. # [02:49] <roc> heck
  91. # [02:49] <roc> http://index.html
  92. # [02:55] <Lachy> .mov would be good for films, instead of [xxx]themovie.com commonly used these days
  93. # [02:55] <Lachy> or maybe .film
  94. # [02:55] <Hixie> i'm registering .xn--74h
  95. # [02:55] <Lachy> :-)
  96. # [02:55] <Hixie> .movie or .film is a tld that would actually be useful, i'd support icann adding that
  97. # [02:56] <Hixie> i think that every time i see a movie
  98. # [02:56] <Hixie> speaking of which, wall-e tomorrow!!!!!! weeeee!!!!
  99. # [02:56] <Lachy> heh, me too
  100. # [02:56] <Lachy> oh, cool
  101. # [02:56] <Hixie> gonna have to update the spec!
  102. # [02:57] <Hixie> the <li> example will be out of date :-)
  103. # [02:57] <Lachy> the <li> example is already wrong :-)
  104. # [03:00] * Lachy is watching the Wall-e trailer in HD on 24" iMac. Damn, it looks good!
  105. # [03:00] <Hixie> no spoilers!
  106. # [03:01] <Hixie> i've actually managed to avoid seeing the second trailer this time
  107. # [03:01] <Hixie> (pixar always release two trailers, one a year in advance, which uses the same art but has nothing to do with the movie, and one nearer release time, which actually does have some bearing on the movie)
  108. # [03:03] <Lachy> hah! You have to see this one!
  109. # [03:03] <Hixie> i'll see it after :-)
  110. # [03:03] <Hixie> <-- fan boy
  111. # [03:04] <Lachy> http://www.apple.com/trailers/disney/walle/hd/ the one called Vignette is funny
  112. # [03:06] <Hixie> is that the one from when they release ratatouille?
  113. # [03:06] <Hixie> released
  114. # [03:06] <Hixie> i.e. the first one
  115. # [03:06] <Lachy> no
  116. # [03:06] <Hixie> ah
  117. # [03:06] <Lachy> it involves a vaccuum
  118. # [03:08] <Hixie> lalala can't hear you!
  119. # [03:09] <Lachy> don't worry, I wont spoil it for you
  120. # [03:10] <Hixie> :-)
  121. # [03:14] <Philip`> Of course you can't hear him, it's a vacuum
  122. # [03:14] <Lachy> ah, crap. I just realised, since it's a children's film and I'm in Norway, they will have dubbed it in Norwegian.
  123. # [03:15] <Lachy> but it doesn't look like it's being released here yet anyway
  124. # [03:16] <Lachy> I have to get out of this silly backwards country :-(
  125. # [03:16] <Hixie> children's film!
  126. # [03:17] <Hixie> blasphemy!
  127. # [03:17] <Lachy> sorry, family film
  128. # [03:18] <Hixie> the term is "comedy"
  129. # [03:18] <Lachy> suitable for children, but no doubt entertaining for adults.
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  132. # [03:20] <jcranmer> you'd think that Hixie is employed by Disney or Pixar or whomever...
  133. # [03:21] <jcranmer> oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't supposed to mention that!
  134. # [03:21] <Lachy> my point was that it's the kind of film they don't just put subtitles on
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  137. # [03:22] <Hixie> Lachy: when we saw the incredibles, they had different showings, one dubbed, and one subbed
  138. # [03:22] <jcranmer> Lachy: sometimes, movies are funnier w/o subtitles
  139. # [03:25] <Lachy> ok. I was just told that films suitable for children were dubbed. When it comes out, I'll check
  140. # [03:25] <Lachy> jcranmer, all films are better without subtitles. But they don't give me a choice here.
  141. # [03:26] <Hixie> maybe norwegian cinemas have an appreciation of pixar :-)
  142. # [03:26] * Hixie saw the incredibles at a norwegian cinema at a pre-release event for free, thanks to eiriks :-D
  143. # [03:27] * jcranmer prefers watching Japanese anime in subtitles
  144. # [03:27] <jcranmer> because the dubs can be just WRONG wrt voices
  145. # [03:27] <Hixie> dubbing is wrong in general
  146. # [03:27] <jcranmer> there are a few good dubs, though
  147. # [03:28] <Hixie> still wrong :-)
  148. # [03:29] <jcranmer> what's fun is to watch a dub with subs and see how different they are
  149. # [03:29] <Philip`> At least anime tends to show each scene for ten seconds with either no animation or some simple looping, which gives you plenty of time to read the subtitles without missing the on-screen action :-)
  150. # [03:30] <jcranmer> Philip`: depends on the anime
  151. # [03:30] <jcranmer> if it's something like Dragonball Z, ten seconds is a bit of an understatement
  152. # [03:31] <jcranmer> fighting animes tend to be best viewed at about 2-4x speed on your DVD/VHS player
  153. # [03:31] <jcranmer> or VLC, for that matter
  154. # [03:31] <Lachy> crap like Dragonball Z is best not viewed at all. In fact, a lot of the anime I've seen come out in the past few years has been generally crap
  155. # [03:32] <jcranmer> too true
  156. # [03:32] <jcranmer> any series which goes on past 100 episodes is way too long
  157. # [03:33] <jcranmer> Saiyuki's 50 is even pushing it on length
  158. # [03:33] <Hixie> naruto was pretty good, though i never finished it
  159. # [03:34] <jcranmer> Hixie: you can't have, it's still not finished
  160. # [03:34] <jcranmer> I think they're on ep 200 or something by now
  161. # [03:34] <Lachy> there were some good shows when I was younger though, like Sailor Moon and Samurai Pizza Cats.
  162. # [03:34] <Lachy> never seen naruto before.
  163. # [03:34] <Hixie> i got to about 98 before getting more became more work than i was willing to put into it
  164. # [03:34] <jcranmer> at least the people who translated it got a lot better after some royally bad ones
  165. # [03:35] <Hixie> (naruto is by far the best anime i've seen)
  166. # [03:35] <jcranmer> Ino's "Mind Control Technique" -> "Super secret valentine technique"
  167. # [03:35] <jcranmer> Hixie: I would care to disagree, but it's certainly better than a lot of the pulp on Saturday morning cartoons
  168. # [03:36] * eseidel_ is now known as eseidel
  169. # [03:37] * jcranmer remembers when Power Rangers was actually good
  170. # [03:37] <Lachy> yeah, the original series of power rangers was awesome.
  171. # [03:37] <Lachy> then it just went downhill quite rapidly
  172. # [03:38] <jcranmer> I think I watched the first two...
  173. # [03:38] * jcranmer was only like 5 then
  174. # [03:40] <Lachy> I was about 11-12 then
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  176. # [03:42] * jcranmer wonders if the logs are rolling right now
  177. # [03:42] <jcranmer> yep
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  194. # [07:51] <hsivonen> Lachy: doesn't Norway have Pixar films *also* available with the original sound track?
  195. # [08:02] <Dashiva> Sometimes, but not always
  196. # [08:03] <hsivonen> weird. In Finland, all Disney films are always in theaters in Finnish and English.
  197. # [08:04] <hsivonen> and the official story for explaining dubbing is that someone at Disney made a policy that forbids subtitling their art
  198. # [08:05] <hsivonen> (but now there's a silly mentality to dub animated movies. whoever decided to commission the dubbing of the Simpson's movie clearly had no clue of the product they were importing)
  199. # [08:06] <Dashiva> Animation is for kids
  200. # [08:06] <Dashiva> Get with the times :P
  201. # [08:06] <hsivonen> Harry Potter isn't, though.
  202. # [08:06] <hsivonen> or it's for literate kids
  203. # [08:09] <Dashiva> Are they still burning those books?
  204. # [08:10] <hsivonen> I don't know. I meant the Harry Potter movies aren't dubbed.
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  219. # [09:20] <hsivonen> parsetree.validator.nu now uses GET for the textarea
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  222. # [09:33] <Lachy> hsivonen, I may have been misinformed about how it works here. I will find out next time a pixar film is shown here
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  233. # [10:04] <hsivonen> takkaria: so far my endeavors to write test cases support the previously assumption about the secondary insertion mode
  234. # [10:10] <Hixie> URLification complete!
  235. # [10:11] <Hixie> almost
  236. # [10:12] <philipj> could someone point me to some background discussion about HTMLMediaElement addCueRange/removeCueRanges methods? they seem rather like the odd man out to me, but some use case etc might be nice before complaining on the mailing lists
  237. # [10:12] <Hixie> the main use cases are subtitles and keeping a separate slideshow in sync
  238. # [10:12] <Hixie> while the user seeks arbitrarily
  239. # [10:12] <Hixie> or plays the content backwards
  240. # [10:13] <philipj> sure, that's the intention, but has anyone shown how it can be done with this interface?
  241. # [10:13] <philipj> I'm sure it's possible, but seems awkward
  242. # [10:14] <Hixie> oh
  243. # [10:14] <Hixie> ?
  244. # [10:14] <philipj> has any browser implemented it yet?
  245. # [10:14] <philipj> otherwise I'd suggest some changes
  246. # [10:14] <Hixie> i don't know what the implementation status is
  247. # [10:14] <Hixie> but what changes did you have in mind?
  248. # [10:14] <philipj> the pauseOnExit boolean seems out of place. calling pause() in the exitCallback would do that
  249. # [10:15] <philipj> is this a special case that deserves special treatment?
  250. # [10:15] <Hixie> you can't guarantee that the callback will be called quick enough to pause on the right frame
  251. # [10:15] <philipj> sounds like an implementation issue to me
  252. # [10:15] <Hixie> not really
  253. # [10:16] <Hixie> if you want the content paused on a particular frame (e.g. at the end of a fade-to-black), you don't want the cpu load on the machine to affect that
  254. # [10:16] <Hixie> there's no sane way an implementation can run js code fast enough to guarantee that it'll work right
  255. # [10:17] <Hixie> after all, some other code might be running at the precise millisecond you need to pause at
  256. # [10:17] <Hixie> in many UAs, that code might even be in another tab
  257. # [10:18] <philipj> you're right
  258. # [10:18] <philipj> is such precision necessary though. why not just seek to the frame while paused?
  259. # [10:19] <Hixie> the use case there would running an interstitial ad from a separate <video> element
  260. # [10:19] <Hixie> you don't want the user to see the next frame or hear the next bit of audio, then hear clipping, then see the ad
  261. # [10:19] <Hixie> that's just ugly
  262. # [10:20] <Hixie> same with, say, an interactive movie
  263. # [10:20] <philipj> ok, fair enough
  264. # [10:20] <Hixie> where you play a scene, then wait for input
  265. # [10:20] <philipj> second, why is there a VoidCallback interface, why not just a function like for addEventListener
  266. # [10:21] <philipj> is there something that's made simpler by encapsulating it in an object?
  267. # [10:21] <annevk> addEventListener takes an EventListener
  268. # [10:22] <annevk> (in the ECMAScript binding this boils down to a function)
  269. # [10:22] <Hixie> as anne says, VoidCallback is a function
  270. # [10:22] <Hixie> i don't like the way it's written today
  271. # [10:22] <Hixie> i really just want to have it take a Function or something
  272. # [10:22] <Hixie> but this is an open issue between html5 and webidl
  273. # [10:23] <Hixie> we haven't quite worked out how to do it yet
  274. # [10:23] <philipj> ok, what is supposedly the problem?
  275. # [10:23] <Hixie> it's unclear how to indicate that in JS you should take a function, but in a language without function pointers, you should take an object with a single handleEvent method
  276. # [10:24] <Hixie> same problem addEventListener's definition has
  277. # [10:25] <philipj> I see
  278. # [10:25] <philipj> so how would you expect VoidHandler to map to JS?
  279. # [10:26] <Hixie> (addEventListener is defined to take an interface-implementing object, not a function -- it's made into a function using prose, just like VoidCallback)
  280. # [10:26] <Hixie> (we use VoidCallback and not EventListener in the media case because there's no argument)
  281. # [10:26] <Hixie> what i really want is for IDL to support a native function type
  282. # [10:26] <Hixie> that expands into an interface with a matching handleEvent method in the languages where that is necessary
  283. # [10:26] <Hixie> but webidl doesn't yet do that
  284. # [10:26] <Hixie> zero-argument function
  285. # [10:26] <philipj> ok, what prose is this that I should be reading?
  286. # [10:27] <Hixie> i think the spec says that somewhere, hold on
  287. # [10:28] <Hixie> webidl, section 4.5, last paragraph
  288. # [10:28] <Hixie> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2006/webapi/Binding4DOM/Overview.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8
  289. # [10:28] <Hixie> "As a special case, a Function object F is considered to implement an interface if that interface is declared with exactly one operation."
  290. # [10:29] <Hixie> i really want the spec to further say that in JS, an object _doesn't_ satisfy that interface
  291. # [10:29] <philipj> ok, so I suppose we want to add a similar statement to the html5 spec
  292. # [10:29] <Hixie> (heycam and i need to sit down and hammer this out at some point)
  293. # [10:29] <Hixie> html5 imports webidl
  294. # [10:29] <philipj> oh
  295. # [10:30] <philipj> then maybe a note, it is not obvious at all when reading the spec if you're unfamiliar with webidl
  296. # [10:30] <Hixie> webidl is one of those amazing specs that makes my life like a bazillion times easier
  297. # [10:30] <Hixie> yeah, i agree
  298. # [10:30] <Hixie> i haven't really done anything with it yet since i want to just change the whole way we do callbacks
  299. # [10:30] <Hixie> i'll make a note
  300. # [10:30] <annevk> can't we just say "in Function foo" for now?
  301. # [10:31] <annevk> that's what Web IDL should probably say anyway
  302. # [10:31] <Hixie> annevk: what's Function's signature?
  303. # [10:31] <annevk> signature?
  304. # [10:31] <philipj> for implementation purposes, may I assume that VoidCallback is a pointer takes a function with no arguments, and not handle an object with a handleEvent (should be handleCallback?) method?
  305. # [10:31] <Hixie> anne: arguments, return value
  306. # [10:32] <Hixie> philipj: yeah, do the same as for EventListener / addEventListener, except with no arguments instead of one argument
  307. # [10:32] <annevk> Hixie, I thought the idea was no arguments, if it's more complex, never mind
  308. # [10:32] <Hixie> annevk: some are no arguments (like VoidCallback), others take arguments. And in some languages, "Function" makes no sense.
  309. # [10:33] <annevk> well, WebIDL would say that in some languages Function would be implemented as FunctionCallbackObject or some such
  310. # [10:33] <Hixie> right
  311. # [10:33] <Hixie> but we need syntax to define the signature
  312. # [10:34] <Hixie> typedef URLEventToBoolCallback = Function (in DOMString url, in Event event): boolean; or whatever
  313. # [10:35] * Joins: tndH (i=Rob@87.102.5.204)
  314. # [10:37] <philipj> finally then, do we expect script authors to create a unique function for each entry and exit point of each range? it's either that or inspecting the currentTime isn't it?
  315. # [10:37] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
  316. # [10:38] <Hixie> yeah, typically they'd create lambdas
  317. # [10:38] <Hixie> or use currying to generate the callbacks
  318. # [10:39] <Hixie> that's why removeCueRange() doesn't take a function pointer but just takes a class name
  319. # [10:39] * Quits: tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) (Client Quit)
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  321. # [10:40] <philipj> I suppose the same exitCallback could be used for all ranges, at least in the subtitles case (clear text)
  322. # [10:41] <heycam> Hixie, why do you specifically want to disallow an object with a handleEvent property (or such)?
  323. # [10:42] <Hixie> heycam: because it's unnecessary and unnecessary things tend to be poorly tested and thus buggy
  324. # [10:43] <Hixie> and especially in this case, handling arbitrary js objects is going to be very buggy
  325. # [10:44] <heycam> extended attribute? :)
  326. # [10:45] * heycam bbl, visitors
  327. # [10:46] * jgraham wonders how many months it will be before Pixar deign to release the exact same film in the UK
  328. # [10:47] <Hixie> ok bed time
  329. # [10:47] <Hixie> nn
  330. # [10:48] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-173-66.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  331. # [10:52] * jgraham discovers the delay is only 3 weeks this time which is better than 4 months for Ratatouille
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  344. # [12:20] <Windstoss> Maybe you folks can gave me a hint. It is said, HTML 5 integrates a new version of DOM Level 2 HTML. The HTMLElement interface defines event handler DOM attributes, AFAIK not covered in DOM2 HTML. On the other hand, addEventListener() specified in DOM2 Event does not seem to be specified. Whats the relation of HTML 5 to DOM2 Event?
  345. # [12:21] <annevk> HTML5 replaces DOM2HTML, not DOM2Events
  346. # [12:21] <annevk> DOM2Events is just something HTML5 works together with
  347. # [12:23] <Windstoss> annevk: And where do the HTMLElement event handler come from? Was it actually part of DOM2HTML?
  348. # [12:23] <Windstoss> annevk: Well, I guess there is a reference to DOM 2 Events I haven't spotted yet ;)
  349. # [12:23] <annevk> It might reference DOM 3 Events
  350. # [12:24] <annevk> the event handler attributes were never defined before
  351. # [12:24] <annevk> obviously they should've been and now are
  352. # [12:24] <Windstoss> ah, so it is part of what some call DOM 0?
  353. # [12:25] <annevk> yeah, likely
  354. # [12:25] <annevk> though not anymore, it's now in HTML 5 :p
  355. # [12:28] <Windstoss> Thanks… nice interview, btw (crueltobekind.org)
  356. # [12:33] <annevk> ty
  357. # [12:33] <hsivonen> annevk: do you have presentation materials available online?
  358. # [12:36] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  359. # [12:37] <annevk> what do you mean?
  360. # [12:37] <annevk> as in, opera.com and wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/HTML5_Presentations ?
  361. # [12:38] <hsivonen> annevk: is there a set of slides, a sound recording or a video of you reboot presentation on the Web?
  362. # [12:38] <annevk> aah, I haven't given it just yet
  363. # [12:38] <hsivonen> oh. reboot is long
  364. # [12:38] <annevk> but they're making high quality video recordings and hopefully they put it sooner online than last year
  365. # [12:38] <annevk> it's just two days
  366. # [12:39] <hsivonen> I had thought the interview was done on location
  367. # [12:40] <annevk> I see, that was done over skype last weekend
  368. # [12:41] <annevk> she e-mailed all presenters beforehand
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  375. # [13:08] * hsivonen wonders who wrote "RDFa" in the HTML WG charter
  376. # [13:11] * Quits: philipj (n=philipj@118.71.117.54) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  377. # [13:17] <Lachy> hsivonen, luckily it's only written in there as an example of something that could be included, not something we necessarily have to include.
  378. # [13:17] * Joins: scotfl_ (n=scotfl@S0106001b114f914a.ss.shawcable.net)
  379. # [13:19] <Lachy> does anyone here know anything about the Internationlisation Tag Set, which is also mentioned in our charter?
  380. # [13:28] * hsivonen finds bug in foreign content impl
  381. # [13:28] <Lachy> oh, wow, it looks like an incredibly complicated spec
  382. # [13:28] * Quits: scotfl (n=scotfl@S0106001b114f914a.ss.shawcable.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  383. # [13:41] * hsivonen deems it a spec bug instead of impl. bug
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  397. # [15:36] * Philip` quite likes the "http://whatwg.org/html5#src1" link syntax
  398. # [15:38] <Philip`> It's a whole three characters longer than the equivalent TinyURL, though :-(
  399. # [15:42] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@58.157.21.205)
  400. # [15:42] <Lachy> hey, does anyone know where the contribution guildelines are written up, which explain things like documenting use cases, problems and finding supporting evidence? I remember Hixie wrote up something like that somewhere, but can't find it
  401. # [15:44] * Quits: qwert666 (n=qwert666@dal75.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Connection timed out)
  402. # [15:47] <hsivonen> Lachy: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ#Is_there_a_process_for_adding_new_features_to_the_spec.3F
  403. # [15:47] <Lachy> thanks
  404. # [15:48] <hsivonen> Lachy: the previous question covers removing stuff that Hixie had put in presumably without having point #2 covered in advance :-)
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  417. # [17:07] <BenMillard> I've been collecting website addresses mentioned in offline media for a while, so I've published them: http://projectcerbera.com/web/study/url/offline
  418. # [17:08] <BenMillard> no analysis or catagorisation, just the URLs grouped by date with the source they came from
  419. # [17:08] <hsivonen> BenMillard: did you omit http:// and www or did the ads do that consistently?
  420. # [17:09] <BenMillard> hsivonen, I omitted it when it was present
  421. # [17:09] <BenMillard> it may have been interesting to keep it when present, though
  422. # [17:10] <BenMillard> there may be small transcription errors, too
  423. # [17:11] <BenMillard> some adverts flash the website name for a really short amount of time, so a few addresses I glimpsed but couldn't write while others are incomplete (usually missing the TLD)
  424. # [17:12] * Joins: annevk2 (n=annevk@0x5da33d22.boanqu1.broadband.tele.dk)
  425. # [17:16] * annevk2 is now known as annevk
  426. # [17:17] <annevk> ah, elharo spotted the URI thread
  427. # [17:17] <Philip`> BenMillard: The world seems to contain quite a lot of advertising :-/
  428. # [17:18] <BenMillard> yeah, I was surprised to stumble upon neary 40 URLs in the first day!
  429. # [17:19] <BenMillard> this is a small but neat complement to DMOZ, which is like an online URL collection :)
  430. # [17:20] <BenMillard> entirely UK-centric, though
  431. # [17:22] * Joins: eseidel (n=eseidel@72.14.228.1)
  432. # [17:22] <BenMillard> I'm thinking of collecting every URL from my local high street to see how big a business has to be to have a website
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  435. # [17:23] <annevk> Does RB understand what <th headers> does? It seems that he thinks you'd use it to point to <td> elements?
  436. # [17:23] <annevk> Maybe I shouldn't care
  437. # [17:23] * annevk deletes e-mail
  438. # [17:27] <itpastorn> Off topic but you guys are usually friendly. I am looking for JavaScript (ES, DOM) material that are written from a computer science perspective (besides Doug C:s stuff)
  439. # [17:27] <BenMillard> annevk, he does seem to be making that error
  440. # [17:31] <annevk> itpastorn, dunno; I don't really know good ES/DOM resources at all
  441. # [17:31] * annevk learned it by try and error and IDL fragments in the DOM specifications...
  442. # [17:33] <itpastorn> IDL?
  443. # [17:34] <annevk> see http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-UIEvent for instance
  444. # [17:34] <annevk> stands for "interface definition language"
  445. # [17:37] <itpastorn> Ah, those grey boxes.... Not International Darts League ;-)
  446. # [17:37] <annevk> heh
  447. # [17:38] * Joins: excrypf (n=nogah@58.187.92.20)
  448. # [17:39] <annevk> I sort of like the idea of open-ended TLDs
  449. # [17:41] <annevk> Though it seems that the way it works is that there's a still a single platform handing them out and it will earn a lot of money on this
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  452. # [17:54] <BenMillard> annevk, at the November 2007 F2F I complimented your blog
  453. # [17:54] <BenMillard> I've been working on bringing my own into the 21st century, summarised here: http://www.accessifyforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10762
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  456. # [18:06] <Philip`> Is it "an 0xDD byte" or "a 0xDD byte"?
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  459. # [18:14] <hober> an
  460. # [18:14] <hober> if you read the zero
  461. # [18:15] <Philip`> An implicit part of my question was "do you read the zero?", so it's no good making the answer conditional on that :-p
  462. # [18:16] <Philip`> I'd read it as "an oh ex dee dee byte" but I don't know if I'm just crazy
  463. # [18:19] <jcranmer> "an octet with value 0xDD"
  464. # [18:19] <jcranmer> oh you can go Intel and say "DDh"
  465. # [18:19] <MikeSmith> Philip`: an awks DD byte
  466. # [18:19] <BenMillard> Philip`, I'd say what you read
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  471. # [18:47] <gsnedders> Philip`: an
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  489. # [20:22] <Philip`> I wish Google search results would link to a fragment identifier in the page near the search terms
  490. # [20:23] <jacobolus> Philip`: you don't have incremental search in your browser?
  491. # [20:23] <Philip`> Does http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#adef-accept-charset make any sense? I can't work out what it's talking about
  492. # [20:24] <Philip`> jacobolus: Yes, but that means I have to type the search terms into the search box, then click the result, then press the incremental search key and type the search terms in a second time
  493. # [20:24] <jacobolus> Philip`: I dunno… I just ⌘E, ⌘G them on a Mac. :)
  494. # [20:25] <Philip`> I don't even know how to pronounce those keys
  495. # [20:25] <jacobolus> command-E, command-G
  496. # [20:26] <Philip`> I usually alt-D tab {type} enter click slash {type again}
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  520. # [21:57] <Hixie> hsivonen: nah removing features applies to all features, including the ones introduced carefully
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  528. # [22:42] <Hixie> should <base href> be affected by xml:base?
  529. # [22:42] <Hixie> i guess not, since xml:base is affected by <base href>
  530. # [22:43] <Hixie> right now the loop is broken by saying that xml:base isn't affected by base href when resolving base href
  531. # [22:43] <Hixie> but i think it should just not affect base href
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  533. # [22:45] <Dashiva> Wasn't that what the conclusion was last time too?
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  535. # [22:45] <Hixie> probably :-)
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  539. # [23:01] <Hixie> apparently <base> doesn't work in document.write()n documents in IE
  540. # [23:01] <Hixie> lovely
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  546. # [23:27] <Hixie> <a href>, <a ping>, <q cite>, <blockquote cite>, <ins cite>, and <del cite> appear to be the only attributes affected by base url changes
  547. # [23:27] <Hixie> and they're only affected for UI purposes and :link/:visited
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  553. # Session Close: Sat Jun 28 00:00:00 2008

The end :)