/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-06-28 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Sat Jun 28 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:05] <Hixie> where does RFC3986 say how to resolve a relative URI reference relative to a base URI that uses the mailto:, data:, javascript:, or similar schemes?
  4. # [00:15] <Hixie> crap, backslashes
  5. # [00:15] <Hixie> wonder we should do with _those_
  6. # [00:18] <gsnedders> Hixie: It doesn't define anything special
  7. # [00:18] <gsnedders> Hixie: WebKit just replaces all \ with /
  8. # [00:21] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  9. # [00:29] * Parts: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  10. # [00:32] * Quits: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acaq127.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) ("Leaving")
  11. # [00:32] * Quits: Maurice (i=copyman@cc90688-a.emmen1.dr.home.nl) ("Disconnected...")
  12. # [00:43] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@ip-12-22-56-126.hqglobal.net)
  13. # [00:45] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@ip-12-22-56-126.hqglobal.net)
  14. # [00:46] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@ip-12-22-56-126.hqglobal.net) (Client Quit)
  15. # [00:55] * Quits: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  16. # [01:02] <Hixie> gsnedders: not if you type them into the location bar
  17. # [01:03] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-3b01a29d3b0082ab) ("The computer fell asleep")
  18. # [01:03] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-212222f416db72ac)
  19. # [01:05] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@ti200710a340-0519.bb.online.no) ("Leaving")
  20. # [01:21] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-212222f416db72ac) (Connection timed out)
  21. # [01:21] <Hixie> i don't understand what IE does
  22. # [01:22] <Hixie> "ht\tp:dem\o@example.com" is treated teh same as "ht/tp:demo/o@example.com" but "mailto:dem\o@example.com" is treated literally
  23. # [01:23] <Hixie> how does it know that "ht\tp:" isn't a scheme?
  24. # [01:24] <Hixie> i guess \ can't be in a cheme
  25. # [01:24] <Hixie> scheme
  26. # [01:27] * Joins: svl (n=me@60-234-138-177.bitstream.orcon.net.nz)
  27. # [01:28] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-fc3db810cd8c304c)
  28. # [01:36] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  29. # [01:38] <Hixie> hsivonen, Philip`: do you want spaces in URLs to be allowed? Even though URI/IRI disallow it?
  30. # [01:45] <Philip`> Hixie: No, since it's too dangerous - if someone writes <a href="foo bar"> and then tells their text editor to wrap lines, the link might break without anyone noticing
  31. # [01:46] <Philip`> and if someone writes <a href="foo bar"> then it won't do what they expect
  32. # [01:47] * Quits: aaronlev_ (n=chatzill@g228071242.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  33. # [01:47] <Philip`> Oops, yes it will, I don't know what I'm talking about, please ignore me
  34. # [01:49] <Philip`> but the first thing still seems like a reason to discourage spaces in URLs
  35. # [01:56] <Philip`> Also it would be bad for <head profile> which uses space-separated URIs
  36. # [01:57] <Hixie> fair enough
  37. # [02:04] * Quits: roc_ (n=roc@121-72-180-68.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  38. # [02:09] <Philip`> Hixie: "This should not be pretty well-defined." - did you mean s/not/now/?
  39. # [02:12] <Hixie> er yes
  40. # [02:12] <Hixie> now
  41. # [02:13] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-fc3db810cd8c304c) ("The computer fell asleep")
  42. # [02:14] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-de42b596e1c50a64)
  43. # [02:14] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
  44. # [02:28] * Quits: tndH (i=Rob@87.102.5.204) ("^D")
  45. # [02:34] * Joins: epeus (n=KevinMar@69.36.227.135)
  46. # [02:40] * Quits: epeus (n=KevinMar@69.36.227.135) ("The computer fell asleep")
  47. # [02:40] * Joins: epeus (n=KevinMar@69.36.227.135)
  48. # [02:43] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-de42b596e1c50a64) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  49. # [02:54] * Quits: svl (n=me@60-234-138-177.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) ("And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.")
  50. # [02:57] * Joins: scotfl (n=scotfl@S0106001b114f914a.ss.shawcable.net)
  51. # [03:01] * Quits: epeus (n=KevinMar@69.36.227.135) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  52. # [03:02] * Quits: billmason (n=billmaso@ip192.unival.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  53. # [03:07] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@c-67-188-23-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  54. # [03:30] * Joins: eseidel (n=eseidel@c-24-118-134-245.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  55. # [03:36] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@c-67-188-23-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  56. # [03:48] * Joins: csarven (n=csarven@modemcable130.251-202-24.mc.videotron.ca)
  57. # [03:56] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-180-68.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  58. # [04:26] * Quits: kingryan_ (n=ryan@c-24-5-77-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  59. # [04:57] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-180-68.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  60. # [04:58] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.145)
  61. # [05:27] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@c-71-198-176-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  62. # [06:17] * Quits: eseidel (n=eseidel@c-24-118-134-245.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  63. # [06:19] * Joins: eseidel (n=eseidel@c-24-118-134-245.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  64. # [06:33] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@c-67-188-23-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  65. # [06:53] * Quits: hdh0 (n=hdh@118.71.122.139) (Remote closed the connection)
  66. # [07:09] <mcarter> Hixie, don't suppose you're around?
  67. # [07:16] * Quits: csarven (n=csarven@modemcable130.251-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  68. # [08:51] * Joins: annevk (n=annevk@port76.ds1-vbr.adsl.cybercity.dk)
  69. # [08:53] * Joins: myakura (n=myakura@p1216-ipbf601marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  70. # [08:54] <Hixie> mcarter: here
  71. # [08:59] <annevk> Maybe "Web URL" if we really need a separate name... "HTML URL" doesn't really scale well as it's likely we want to use this everywhere just to kep surprises for authors to a minimum
  72. # [09:04] <annevk> Hixie, your "Re: How Open is Open?" never went to the public list...
  73. # [09:04] <Hixie> oh?
  74. # [09:04] <annevk> It seems you changed the name of the list, but not the actual e-mail address :)
  75. # [09:05] <Hixie> woops
  76. # [09:05] * Hixie goes to fix
  77. # [09:10] * Joins: webben_ (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com)
  78. # [09:20] <mcarter> Hixie, when you have some time i was hoping you could take a look at this article i wrote and let me know if i'm getting anything wrong. also i put a couple questions that i wanted to print your responses to
  79. # [09:21] <mcarter> Hixie, http://orbited.org/svn/orbited/branches/0.5/articles/mcarter/0.5_world_announcement
  80. # [09:21] <mcarter> Hixie, the point is to explain websocket and also to shed some light on what we're doing with Orbited
  81. # [09:21] * Quits: myakura (n=myakura@p1216-ipbf601marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) ("Leaving...")
  82. # [09:22] <mcarter> Hixie, the plan is to publish it after we've worked out the WebSocket stuff
  83. # [09:25] * Quits: webben (n=benh@91.85.160.213) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  84. # [09:27] <Hixie> looks good to me
  85. # [09:28] <Hixie> for your first two questions -- I don't think it'll change the face of the Web per se, it's just a new tool in the growing toolbox that Web developers have at their disposal, one less reason for developers to use a proprietary platform over the Web.
  86. # [09:29] <Hixie> Having said that, it will make a lot of interactive applications like mail, IM, remote control tools, and the like, much more powerful
  87. # [09:29] <Hixie> and much easier to write.
  88. # [09:30] <Hixie> for your third question -- There's a plan to have a plan!
  89. # [09:30] <mcarter> cool
  90. # [09:30] <Hixie> As with everything in HTML5, we want to start small, and see where it goes before adding too much.
  91. # [09:31] <mcarter> ok, i'll add these answer to the article
  92. # [09:33] <mcarter> I'll probably have to change the tone of the article slightly -- I did put a lot of hype in there
  93. # [09:35] <mcarter> one thing to remember is that I'm planning on publishing this on cometdaily.com, and the point of it is to get the readership to stop thinking what they want is "comet" and really its a socket
  94. # [09:35] <mcarter> thats why i talk about comet at all, if you were wondering
  95. # [09:39] <Hixie> cool
  96. # [09:39] <Hixie> time for bed
  97. # [09:39] <Hixie> nn
  98. # [09:40] <annevk> WebSocket is not actually defined yet, right?
  99. # [09:40] <mcarter> goodnight
  100. # [09:40] <mcarter> annevk, no, not yet
  101. # [10:03] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-180-68.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  102. # [10:11] * Joins: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acaq127.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  103. # [10:14] * Joins: Maurice` (i=copyman@cc90688-a.emmen1.dr.home.nl)
  104. # [10:17] * Parts: annevk (n=annevk@port76.ds1-vbr.adsl.cybercity.dk)
  105. # [10:18] * Joins: annevk (n=annevk@port76.ds1-vbr.adsl.cybercity.dk)
  106. # [10:29] <takkaria> gah, 47 mails since yesterday? I thought public-html had become sensible
  107. # [10:34] <annevk> only when you don't look
  108. # [10:43] * Parts: annevk (n=annevk@port76.ds1-vbr.adsl.cybercity.dk)
  109. # [10:54] * Quits: sverrej (n=sverrej@89.10.27.86) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  110. # [10:54] * Joins: sverrej (n=sverrej@89.10.27.86)
  111. # [10:55] * Quits: eseidel (n=eseidel@c-24-118-134-245.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  112. # [11:06] * Joins: webben (n=benh@91.85.160.213)
  113. # [11:09] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@scandic817.host.songnetworks.se)
  114. # [11:13] * Joins: excrypf (n=nogah@58.187.95.27)
  115. # [11:15] <Dashiva> Is there any point in the discussion at uri@?
  116. # [11:16] <takkaria> not really
  117. # [11:19] * Quits: webben_ (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  118. # [11:24] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246) ("Leaving")
  119. # [11:24] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  120. # [11:43] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  121. # [11:50] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-24-5-43-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  122. # [12:20] * Joins: tndH (i=Rob@87.102.5.204)
  123. # [12:38] * Joins: annevk (n=annevk@194.182.142.5)
  124. # [12:48] * Quits: excrypf (n=nogah@58.187.95.27) (Remote closed the connection)
  125. # [13:11] * Joins: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  126. # [13:12] <Lachy> http://standardssuck.org/w3c-digging-the-xml-grave
  127. # [13:13] * annevk goes in to fix typo and adds some tags
  128. # [13:13] <annevk> thanks Lachy
  129. # [13:14] <Lachy> what typo?
  130. # [13:14] <annevk> "insight into the its failure."
  131. # [13:14] <Lachy> oh
  132. # [13:16] <annevk> also, seems our titles are not capitalized so I removed that too
  133. # [13:25] <takkaria> if they weren't leading questions I don't know what are
  134. # [13:26] <annevk> hm?
  135. # [13:37] * Joins: myakura (n=myakura@p1216-ipbf601marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  136. # [14:02] * Parts: annevk (n=annevk@194.182.142.5)
  137. # [14:30] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@scandic817.host.songnetworks.se) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  138. # [14:34] * Joins: csarven (n=csarven@modemcable130.251-202-24.mc.videotron.ca)
  139. # [14:36] <hsivonen> Hixie: I'm not sure what I want Re: spaces in URLs
  140. # [14:36] <hsivonen> Hixie: I can see reasonable arguments both ways
  141. # [14:37] <gsnedders> Hixie: I don't want spaces in URLs to be conforming.
  142. # [14:37] <hsivonen> Hixie: ATM, I'm leaning on the side of not allowing spaces as conforming
  143. # [14:37] <gsnedders> Hixie: I'd argue that any URL must be a valid IRI
  144. # [14:38] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-180-68.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  145. # [14:38] <hsivonen> fwiw, I was trying to watch the latest standards suck episode with the software that Nokia ships with S60r3, but there was no way to navigate to the .3gp version of YouTube
  146. # [14:39] <hsivonen> (I don't know if YouTube chooses to encode the standards suck episodes as .3gp anyway)
  147. # [14:57] * Quits: itpastorn (n=itpastor@139.57.227.87.static.th.siw.siwnet.net) ("Leaving.")
  148. # [15:04] * Joins: maikmerten (n=maikmert@L9313.l.pppool.de)
  149. # [15:46] <Lachy> hsivonen, YouTube uses h.264 encoded video in a Flash video container format.
  150. # [15:47] <hsivonen> Lachy: interesting. I thought they hadn't made the transition to H.264 yet
  151. # [15:48] <hsivonen> Lachy: (also, putting h.264 in the .flv container seems weird. Do you have a reference?)
  152. # [15:48] <hsivonen> Lachy: YouTube also has a partial mobile version. the .3gp videos there play on RealPlayer shipped by Nokia.
  153. # [15:49] <Lachy> well, I just downloaded the video using Miro, opened it up in QuickTime and had a look at what codec it used.
  154. # [15:49] <Lachy> So unless Miro transcoded it, then they use h.264
  155. # [15:49] <hsivonen> Lachy: they do use h.264 for AppleTV and iPhone
  156. # [15:49] <hsivonen> perhaps Miro pulls in those files?
  157. # [15:50] <Lachy> though, it may have done so, cause Miro put it into a .mp4 container format too.
  158. # [15:51] <Lachy> I'll download the flv with another tool and see what it has.
  159. # [15:51] <hsivonen> (it seems to me that putting h.264 into .flv wouldn't make sense, as versions of Flash plug-ins that support h.264 support it in .mp4)
  160. # [15:53] <Lachy> yeah, the video that miro downloaded is different from the flv.
  161. # [15:54] <Lachy> the FLV has h.263 with MP3 audio.
  162. # [15:54] <Lachy> and is lower quality than the MP4 that Miro downloaded
  163. # [15:55] <hsivonen> can standards suck be subscribed to with iTunes?
  164. # [15:55] <Lachy> I wonder if Miro somehow got the original video that Marcos had uploaded
  165. # [15:55] <Lachy> not yet
  166. # [15:59] <hsivonen> Are there Web formats that use namespaced attributes an the namespace isn't the XML namespace, the XMLNS namespace or the XLink namespace?
  167. # [15:59] <Lachy> oh, btw, I realised the background noise you can hear in the videos is actually the noisy air conditioner in the office
  168. # [16:00] <Lachy> I'm not sure how to effectively filter it out though
  169. # [16:03] <Philip`> hsivonen: Does <license rdf:resource="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/1.0/" /> etc count as "Web formats", given that it's used on the web a lot?
  170. # [16:07] <hsivonen> Philip`: it counts if it is used as an actual element in SVG metadata. It doesn't count if it is use inside comments in HTML.
  171. # [16:08] <hsivonen> Philip`: but I guess I should add 'rdf' to my hardwired attribute prefixes
  172. # [16:10] <hsivonen> (I finally decided to write an XML serializer so that I don't need to depend on someone else's bugs and design decisions)
  173. # [16:10] <Philip`> There's lots of VML stuff like v:ext
  174. # [16:10] <hsivonen> using the Xalan serializer seems to take more time than it saves
  175. # [16:11] <hsivonen> Philip`: v:ext isn't for real XML content, though.
  176. # [16:15] <Philip`> Some collection of real XML SVG uses rdf: and inkscape: and sodipodi: and i: (Illustrator) and x: (XMP Toolkit)
  177. # [16:16] <hsivonen> I also need a list of element namespaces that are canonically prefixed. rdf is one of those
  178. # [16:16] <hsivonen> Philip`: do you have a URL to a sample document?
  179. # [16:17] <Philip`> hsivonen: A sample of what in particular?
  180. # [16:17] <hsivonen> Philip`: an SVG file where I can see abundant real-world prefixes.
  181. # [16:18] <hsivonen> Philip`: those were all for attributes, right?
  182. # [16:18] <hsivonen> Philip`: what's the Illustrator ns URI?
  183. # [16:19] <hsivonen> and what's the XMP URI?
  184. # [16:20] <Philip`> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/Tetrahedral_group.svg has some i: and a: and rdf:
  185. # [16:20] <hsivonen> Philip`: thanks
  186. # [16:20] <Philip`> and it has x:
  187. # [16:21] <hsivonen> whee! adobe-proprietary URI scheme!
  188. # [16:21] <hsivonen> that document has some bad NS and metadata craziness going
  189. # [16:21] <hsivonen> so sad
  190. # [16:22] * Philip` goes away
  191. # [16:22] * hsivonen adds the URIs to Validator.nu
  192. # [16:24] <hsivonen> I think ns.adobe.com doesn't adhere to the TAG's advice
  193. # [16:26] <hsivonen> Soon I'll have more Adobe namespaces than W3C namespaces on file
  194. # [16:27] * hsivonen lols at GenericCustomNamespace
  195. # [16:41] * Joins: hdh (n=hdh@118.71.124.238)
  196. # [17:06] * Joins: jruderman_ (n=jruderma@ip68-5-179-249.oc.oc.cox.net)
  197. # [17:14] * Joins: excrypf (n=nogah@58.187.94.30)
  198. # [17:15] * Quits: csarven (n=csarven@modemcable130.251-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) ("http://www.csarven.ca/")
  199. # [17:15] * Joins: epeus (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  200. # [17:16] * Parts: excrypf (n=nogah@58.187.94.30)
  201. # [17:17] * Joins: excrypf (n=nogah@58.187.94.30)
  202. # [17:22] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@ip68-5-179-249.oc.oc.cox.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  203. # [17:26] * Parts: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  204. # [17:29] * Joins: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  205. # [17:40] * Joins: billmason (n=billmaso@ip192.unival.com)
  206. # [18:18] * Joins: starjive (i=beos@213-66-217-32-no30.tbcn.telia.com)
  207. # [19:14] * Quits: billmason (n=billmaso@ip192.unival.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  208. # [19:15] * Joins: billmason (n=billmaso@ip192.unival.com)
  209. # [19:34] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@c-67-188-23-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  210. # [19:38] * Quits: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  211. # [19:39] * Joins: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  212. # [19:48] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-180-68.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  213. # [20:09] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-180-68.dsl.telstraclear.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  214. # [20:11] * Joins: tusho (n=tusho@91.105.117.61)
  215. # [20:12] <tusho> What should I use to mark up some text like 'Published 2008-06-28'?
  216. # [20:12] <tusho> I guess just a <p>...
  217. # [20:15] <Philip`> You could use a <time> around the date, if you want to add markup for its own sake (or for the sake of tools that don't exist yet)
  218. # [20:17] <tusho> Right. But I have subtitles too.
  219. # [20:17] <tusho> So:
  220. # [20:17] <tusho> <h1>My Trip Out</h1><h2>or, a very boring subtitle</h2><p>Published 2008-06-28.</p>
  221. # [20:17] <tusho> However, CSS-wise, the subtitle and the published line will be styled the same and on the same line, like 'or, a very boring subtitle. Published 2008-06-28.'
  222. # [20:18] <tusho> and it just kinda feels wrong to mix a p in with that.
  223. # [20:18] <tusho> *shrug* Probably just me being islly.
  224. # [20:18] * Philip` isn't any good at working out which elements to use in any given case, so he usually just picks whichever one gets rendered in the desired way :-)
  225. # [20:18] <tusho> *g*
  226. # [20:18] <tusho> I could just drop subtitles, who reads them anyway?
  227. # [20:18] <tusho> But otherwise my titles will be too long for my headings. :(
  228. # [20:22] <tusho> :\
  229. # [20:25] * Quits: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no) (Remote closed the connection)
  230. # [20:26] * Joins: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  231. # [20:32] * Parts: excrypf (n=nogah@58.187.94.30)
  232. # [20:34] <tusho> Any opinions?
  233. # [20:40] <Philip`> tusho: I don't see what the problem would be with the markup you suggested
  234. # [20:40] <tusho> True.
  235. # [20:40] <tusho> I'll go for it, then.
  236. # [20:40] <Philip`> although in the spirit of promotion HTML5 elements even though I don't know what good they would do, maybe the whole thing could be wrapped in a <header>
  237. # [20:40] <tusho> yes
  238. # [20:40] * Joins: Windstoss (n=wind@U924d.u.pppool.de)
  239. # [20:40] <tusho> it will be
  240. # [20:40] <tusho> :)
  241. # [20:41] <Philip`> s/promotion/promoting/
  242. # [20:41] <tusho> I saw http://intertwingly.net/blog/2008/06/24/Minimalist-Markup and thought "well, why does it have to be minimal markup *or* design"?
  243. # [20:41] <tusho> So now I'm off in typography and markup la-la land...
  244. # [20:42] <Windstoss> I'm just trying out getElementsByClassName(). In Safari, how to use forEach for the result? In Firefox, I do Array.forEach(document.getElementsByClassName('foo'), function() {}).
  245. # [20:43] <Windstoss> Safari hast forEach implemented, so I don't want to use the traditional for loop if possible.
  246. # [20:44] * Quits: maikmerten (n=maikmert@L9313.l.pppool.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  247. # [20:49] <tusho> Hm,
  248. # [20:50] <tusho> is <h2> even right for a subtitle?
  249. # [20:50] <tusho> Doesn't that make this 'tree':
  250. # [20:50] <tusho> - My title
  251. # [20:50] <tusho> \- My subtitle
  252. # [20:50] <tusho> and then, under that subtitle, my published line...
  253. # [20:50] <tusho> that seems wrong
  254. # [21:21] * Quits: billmason (n=billmaso@ip192.unival.com) (".")
  255. # [21:45] * Joins: qwert666_ (n=qwert666@acaf52.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  256. # [21:52] * Parts: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  257. # [21:52] * Joins: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  258. # [21:53] * Parts: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  259. # [21:54] * Joins: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  260. # [21:54] * Parts: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  261. # [21:54] * Joins: hasather (n=hasather@ti0034a380-2730.bb.online.no)
  262. # [22:03] * Quits: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acaq127.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Connection timed out)
  263. # [22:04] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@c-71-198-176-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  264. # [22:09] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@c-71-198-176-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  265. # [22:16] <tusho> Hmm.
  266. # [22:16] <tusho> Can <h2> be in a <p>?
  267. # [22:16] <tusho> If so, <p><h2>My fancy subtitle.</h2> Published blah.</p> may be more correct.
  268. # [22:19] <gsnedders> tusho: No
  269. # [22:19] <gsnedders> tusho: in text/html, the <h2> creates an implied </p>
  270. # [22:19] <tusho> Hrmph.
  271. # [22:19] <tusho> Because my current way isn't really Working Out.
  272. # [22:19] <gsnedders> tusho: in XHTML, it's non-conforming
  273. # [22:20] <tusho> It's making me have to make (header h2, header p) inline.
  274. # [22:20] <tusho> :|
  275. # [22:24] * Quits: mcarter (n=mcarter@ip-12-22-56-126.hqglobal.net) ("Leaving")
  276. # [22:28] <tusho> Anyone have markupy suggestions?
  277. # [22:28] <tusho> I already have a <header> including a <h1> and these two elements..
  278. # [22:30] <gsnedders> tusho: what sort of subtitle is it? I'd probably just use a <p> for it
  279. # [22:30] <tusho> gsnedders: like
  280. # [22:31] <tusho> <h1>Killing Gnomes</h1><h2>A great idea with a terrible implementation.</h2><p>Published 1970-01-01.</p>
  281. # [22:31] <gsnedders> tusho: I'd just use a p emenet
  282. # [22:31] <tusho> which, in the end, I'm trying to display like <p>A great idea with a terrible implementation. Published 1970-01-01.</p>
  283. # [22:32] <tusho> gsnedders: OK then
  284. # [22:32] <tusho> it feels like I should mark a subtitle SOMEHOW, though.
  285. # [22:33] <gsnedders> tusho: Heck, if you want that, just a single p element
  286. # [22:33] <gsnedders> tusho: a p element is markup! :P
  287. # [22:33] <tusho> *g*
  288. # [22:33] <jcranmer> display: run-in ?
  289. # [22:33] <gsnedders> tusho: Also, put the date in a time element
  290. # [22:33] <tusho> yes, I am gsnedders
  291. # [22:33] * gsnedders wishes that was better supported
  292. # [22:33] <jcranmer> that seems to be the desired formatting, FWICT
  293. # [22:34] <gsnedders> I use display: run-in on the print styles for my blog, though only Prince XML and Opera actually manage to render the print style correctly
  294. # [22:34] <tusho> hmm
  295. # [22:34] <tusho> I'm all for browser snobbery
  296. # [22:34] <tusho> but I'd like to support ff,opera,safari
  297. # [22:34] <gsnedders> Browsers just tend to have rubbish support of print stuff which doesn't help
  298. # [22:35] <gsnedders> tusho: display: run-in isn't supported in Gecko, so that won't work
  299. # [22:35] <tusho> heh
  300. # [22:35] <jcranmer> gsnedders: patches welcome, I suppose
  301. # [22:36] * jcranmer wonders idly if IE 8 will support run-in
  302. # [22:36] <gsnedders> jcranmer: I don't have the interest to write stuff like that for Gecko
  303. # [22:36] <gsnedders> jcranmer: It should, IIRC b1 does
  304. # [22:36] <tusho> jcranmer: that won't be of much interest to me:
  305. # [22:36] <tusho> <meta http-equiv='X-UA-Compatible' content='IE=5'>
  306. # [22:37] <tusho> (i hope it can emulate that far back ;))
  307. # [22:37] <gsnedders> tusho: that just enters quirks mode
  308. # [22:37] <tusho> aw
  309. # [22:37] <tusho> i want full ie 5 emulation
  310. # [22:37] <tusho> can I have my money back, microsoft?
  311. # [22:37] <jcranmer> content='IE=1'>
  312. # [22:37] <tusho> jcranmer: see, that's not as fun
  313. # [22:37] <tusho> IE 1 would probably just ignore my css
  314. # [22:37] <gsnedders> IE 5.5, IE7 and IE8 are supported
  315. # [22:37] <jcranmer> or IE=40
  316. # [22:37] <tusho> but ie 5 is just clever enough to really break my page
  317. # [22:37] <tusho> ah, 5.5 is close enough
  318. # [22:37] <gsnedders> (IE5.5 is what quirks mode has been ever since)
  319. # [22:38] <tusho> oh, really?
  320. # [22:38] <tusho> crazy
  321. # [22:38] <gsnedders> But AFAIK it's just supported as switches within the IE7 engine
  322. # [22:41] <gsnedders> jcranmer: they're claiming support for IE8 final of display:run-in
  323. # [22:42] <gsnedders> (but that comes just as part of the full CSS 2.1 support inevitably)
  324. # [22:42] <gsnedders> it seems IE8b1 doesn't, though
  325. # [22:42] <jcranmer> I guess FF needs to get its run-in going, then
  326. # [22:44] * Quits: Windstoss (n=wind@U924d.u.pppool.de) ("*plonk*")
  327. # [22:44] <gsnedders> IE8 should be pretty close to getting the print styles of my blog right, too
  328. # [22:44] <gsnedders> (you need some CSS3 support to get it fully right)
  329. # [22:45] <tusho> i think everyone should base their designs on Acid3
  330. # [22:45] <tusho> ;)
  331. # [22:49] <gsnedders> You need CSS 2.1 + CSS 3's Generated Content for Paged Media and Paged Media modules for the print version of my blog :P
  332. # [23:02] <tusho> Wow. Link? :P
  333. # [23:03] * tusho is aiming for trivial markup, trivial design with his blog
  334. # [23:03] <tusho> so it doesn't really need much
  335. # [23:05] <gsnedders> tusho: http://gsnedders.com/
  336. # [23:05] <gsnedders> tusho: It's not conforming HTML 5, I know
  337. # [23:05] <tusho> <html lang="en-gb-x-sneddy">
  338. # [23:05] <tusho> someone took a leaf out of hixie's book :-P
  339. # [23:06] <gsnedders> tusho: Oh, never :P
  340. # [23:06] * gsnedders is yet to write a spec for it though
  341. # [23:06] * tusho considers en-gb-x-sdjfklsfjdoijafoidjfkoiakjfoiajfoiawjoaiewudrcioarucawoxpkaiosafjaidfjdslfk
  342. # [23:06] <gsnedders> tusho: that's non-conforming
  343. # [23:06] <gsnedders> tusho: each subtag has a max. length of eight characters
  344. # [23:06] <tusho> Stop shattering my hopes and dreams.
  345. # [23:07] <gsnedders> (I'd be using en-gb-x-gsnedders if I could)
  346. # [23:07] <tusho> gsnedders: That's what you get for not having an IRC-friendly nickname! Sucks to be you. ;)
  347. # [23:08] <gsnedders> tusho: How's it not IRC-friendly!?
  348. # [23:08] <tusho> IRC nicknames are 7 or less characters. :-P
  349. # [23:08] * hsivonen is happy to have a 7-letter surname
  350. # [23:08] <tusho> I have a three letter surname, but I don't like it. :p
  351. # [23:08] * gsnedders is now known as sneddy
  352. # [23:08] <sneddy> tusho: Fine.
  353. # [23:09] <tusho> sneddy: Now you get extra unicorns in your daily servings.
  354. # [23:09] * Quits: myakura (n=myakura@p1216-ipbf601marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) ("Leaving...")
  355. # [23:10] <sneddy> I so have to write a blog post in response to the fact that someone found my blog searching for "claiming a love"
  356. # [23:10] <Lachy> tusho, in which clients are IRC nicknames limited to 7 characters?
  357. # [23:10] <tusho> Lachy: It's just common convention.
  358. # [23:10] <tusho> I mean, not as a hard limit, but what I'd class as an "IRC nickname"
  359. # [23:12] * tusho wonders if his blog needs a little more debris than "Here are the latest entries in my blog. If you like, you can see a list of older ones too." and "Licensed under CC by-sa."
  360. # [23:13] <sneddy> (fwiw, I started to write a blog post about last May)
  361. # [23:14] <tusho> sneddy: your url design is mine!
  362. # [23:14] <tusho> (/slug and nothing more)
  363. # [23:14] <tusho> well
  364. # [23:14] <tusho> technically I have some extra stuff
  365. # [23:14] <tusho> though most of that is redirects so I can be pedantic
  366. # [23:14] <sneddy> tusho: Habari has no easy way to change it :P
  367. # [23:14] <tusho> e.g. /slug/comments redirects to /slug#comments
  368. # [23:15] <tusho> so that the comment form can PUT to /slug/comments
  369. # [23:15] <tusho> and /slug/comments/N redirects to /slug#comment-N
  370. # [23:15] * sneddy is now known as gsnedders
  371. # [23:15] <tusho> so that my baleet button can DELETE to /slug/comments/N
  372. # [23:15] <tusho> oh, and I won't be able to use "login" or "post" as a slug
  373. # [23:15] <tusho> that's about it I think
  374. # [23:16] <tusho> oh, and /slug/edit shows my edit form
  375. # [23:16] <gsnedders> /atom, /tag, /user, and /admin are forbidden off the top of my head
  376. # [23:17] <tusho> ah, my atom will be /index.html or /index.atom
  377. # [23:17] <tusho> or, you know, /
  378. # [23:17] <tusho> content negotiation ;)
  379. # [23:17] <tusho> oh, /archives
  380. # [23:17] <tusho> that's it
  381. # [23:17] <tusho> (i don't have tags or anything because they don't really bother me)
  382. # [23:17] <tusho> */archive actually
  383. # [23:17] <tusho> and /archive is just a semi-pretty list of every post ever
  384. # [23:18] <tusho> simplistic :p
  385. # [23:19] <tusho> oh, and on a markupy note, universal edit button is so broken
  386. # [23:19] <tusho> rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki"?
  387. # [23:20] <tusho> an edit page is not in any way an alternate version of a document and it won't give you back an application/x-wiki page either...
  388. # [23:20] <tusho> they could have, you know, just done rel="edit"
  389. # [23:22] <gsnedders> Anyone want to bully me into going to a specific uni?
  390. # [23:22] <tusho> No. :p
  391. # [23:26] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-44-35-200.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) ("Killin' teh intarwebs")
  392. # [23:31] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-24-5-43-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  393. # [23:43] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  394. # Session Close: Sun Jun 29 00:00:00 2008

The end :)