/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-06-30 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 30 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <Philip`> let rec f = function 0 -> 1 | n -> n * f (n-1)
  4. # [00:00] <Philip`> That doesn't take long, and then you can move onto something more exciting :-)
  5. # [00:02] * Philip` discovers the "import __hello__" feature in Python
  6. # [00:03] <gsnedders> I should just try and use functional programming to generate the answers to the maths I'm currently doing at school
  7. # [00:03] <gsnedders> Seeming that means I have to understand the maths to decently implement it :P
  8. # [00:09] * Joins: jruderman_ (n=jruderma@ip68-5-179-249.oc.oc.cox.net)
  9. # [00:10] <Philip`> let tt n = String.concat "; " (let rec f = function 0 -> [] | m -> (string_of_int n ^ " x " ^ string_of_int m ^ " = " ^ string_of_int (n*m)) :: (f (m-1)) in List.rev (f n))
  10. # [00:10] <Philip`> gsnedders: That should help with your maths homework
  11. # [00:10] <gsnedders> Philip`: What does that do?
  12. # [00:11] <Philip`> It'd be cheating if I just told you :-p
  13. # [00:11] * gsnedders slaps Philip`
  14. # [00:12] <Hixie> HTTP says taht leading zeros must be ignored in the HTTP/1.1 version thing
  15. # [00:12] <gsnedders> Philip`: <interactive>:1:54: parse error on input `->'
  16. # [00:12] <Philip`> gsnedders: Wrong language, probably
  17. # [00:13] <Philip`> (I'm using OCaml)
  18. # [00:13] <Hixie> i wonder how many implementations handle HTTP/01.01 correctly
  19. # [00:13] <gsnedders> Hixie: everything.
  20. # [00:13] <Hixie> gsnedders: and HTTP/01.02?
  21. # [00:13] <gsnedders> Hixie: That too
  22. # [00:13] <gsnedders> (HTTP/1.x is just treated as HTTP/1.1 by servers, HTTP/x.x is just treated as HTTP/1.1 by clients)
  23. # [00:14] <gsnedders> Philip`: I have no OCaml interpreter/compiler here
  24. # [00:14] * jgraham considers creating an HTTP implementation that does it wrong to annoy gsnedders
  25. # [00:14] <Hixie> oh so they all just ignore it?
  26. # [00:14] <gsnedders> jgraham: You're breaking my spec!
  27. # [00:14] <Philip`> gsnedders: You just need to learn to read the code :-)
  28. # [00:15] <gsnedders> Hixie: Well, servers must parse it somewhat, and clients just check that there are numbers there
  29. # [00:15] <gsnedders> Hixie: a client would treat the response as HTTP/0.9 if it were "HTTP/a.b"
  30. # [00:15] <gsnedders> Hixie: (actually, some clients wouldn't, that behaviour is rather weird)
  31. # [00:15] * Quits: heycam (n=cam@210-84-41-18.dyn.iinet.net.au) ("bye")
  32. # [00:15] <Hixie> gsnedders: so what's the difference between the versions, for implementations?
  33. # [00:16] <gsnedders> Hixie: Theoretically there's a small number of differences, de-facto more or less nothing
  34. # [00:16] * Hixie is doing a crash course in HTTP so he can make sure the WebSockets stuff is specced right
  35. # [00:16] <gsnedders> Hixie: (that's HTTP/1.0 and HTTP/1.1, HTTP/0.9 is totally different)
  36. # [00:16] <jgraham> Philip`: Does that print times tables or something?
  37. # [00:17] <gsnedders> Hixie: http://twitter.com/gsnedders/statuses/846440682 :)
  38. # [00:17] * Joins: annevk (n=annevk@77.163.243.203)
  39. # [00:17] <gsnedders> annevk: You were asking what happened in GTA4 if you killed Dwanye, were you not? Want to know?
  40. # [00:18] <gsnedders> Hixie: I'll point out what you do wrong in the WebSockets stuff :P
  41. # [00:18] <Hixie> i hope so :-)
  42. # [00:18] <annevk> I'm sort of over GTA4
  43. # [00:19] <annevk> have been playing MGS4 this weekend with a friend
  44. # [00:19] <annevk> really nice
  45. # [00:19] <gsnedders> annevk: I just finished playing through the story for a second time: partly to get the achievement for completing it in under 30 hours, and also to make all the choices I didn't make before :P
  46. # [00:19] <Hixie> gsnedders: so what do clients and servers do different in 0.9 vs 1.0?
  47. # [00:19] <gsnedders> (I actually completed it in under 20 hours, too, slightly to my amazement)
  48. # [00:19] <gsnedders> Hixie: Everything :)
  49. # [00:19] <Hixie> gsnedders: elaborate? :-)
  50. # [00:20] <gsnedders> Hixie: HTTP/0.9 request: GET /index.html CR LF
  51. # [00:20] <Hixie> i mean how do they react differently
  52. # [00:20] <gsnedders> Hixie: HTTP/0.9 response: US-ASCII HTML
  53. # [00:20] <Hixie> i know that the initial request is different :-)
  54. # [00:20] <gsnedders> Hixie: That's all there is to HTTP.
  55. # [00:21] <gsnedders> (0.9)
  56. # [00:21] <gsnedders> I haven't done that much reverse engineering of it though
  57. # [00:21] <Hixie> oh so if the request is HTTP/0.9, servers just omit the headers?
  58. # [00:21] <annevk> I guess that's why we got <plaintext>
  59. # [00:22] <gsnedders> Hixie: yeah, basically
  60. # [00:22] <gsnedders> Hixie: there's no such thing as headers :P
  61. # [00:22] <Hixie> ok so 0.9 is basically uninteresting
  62. # [00:22] <Hixie> ok
  63. # [00:22] <gsnedders> Yeah, 0.9 is simple.
  64. # [00:22] <Hixie> and everyone who supports 1.1 just treats everything as 1.1, regardless of the version information?
  65. # [00:22] <gsnedders> pretty much, I think
  66. # [00:22] <Hixie> well
  67. # [00:23] <Hixie> i'm sure glad that http has versioning then
  68. # [00:23] <Hixie> </sarcasm>
  69. # [00:23] <gsnedders> it seems that servers do ignore the requirement that HTTP/0.9 responses are US-ASCII HTML, and they do just send no headers
  70. # [00:24] <gsnedders> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/HTTP/AsImplemented.html — the closest thing to an HTTP/0.9 spec
  71. # [00:25] * Quits: jruderman (n=jruderma@ip68-5-179-249.oc.oc.cox.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  72. # [00:25] * Quits: svl (n=me@60-234-138-177.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) ("And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.")
  73. # [00:26] <annevk> In other news, both my parents use Ubuntu now
  74. # [00:26] <annevk> driver for wireless was a major pita
  75. # [00:28] <Lachy> My interview on boagworld will finally be released in this wednesday's show
  76. # [00:28] <gsnedders> Anyhow, let me go sleep
  77. # [00:29] <Hixie> nn
  78. # [00:29] <Hixie> Lachy: cool
  79. # [00:29] <Hixie> Lachy: i've been listening to the boagworld show but apart from the WCAG2 episode their audio is so bad that i can't actually listen for more than about 2 minutes at a time
  80. # [00:29] <Lachy> I didn't listen to the WCAG 2 one yet
  81. # [00:31] <Hixie> it's not very exciting, but it does have actually listenable audio
  82. # [00:33] <Hixie> woah, you can send headers after the content if you use the chunked encoding?!
  83. # [00:33] <Lachy> hopefully mine won't be too bad. But I can't listen to my own voice, I think I sound terrible :-)
  84. # [00:34] <annevk> we need some proper microphones for standardssuck.org too it seems, Hixie is not the only one complaining :)
  85. # [00:35] <Hixie> the funny thing with the standardssuck podcasts is that because you just have the one camera, if you watch the person not talking, they're just fidgeting the whole time :-)
  86. # [00:35] <Hixie> you really want to have a camera per person and then a wider angle for the establishing shot
  87. # [00:35] <Hixie> :-)
  88. # [00:36] <annevk> yeah, or some nice editing software that lets you zoom in on the talking person
  89. # [00:36] <Lachy> donations for purchasing HD cameras and sound equipment would be very welcome
  90. # [00:36] <Lachy> annevk, I have final cut studio now
  91. # [00:36] <Lachy> I think marcos is getting a copy of it too
  92. # [00:37] <annevk> cool
  93. # [00:38] <Lachy> I'm also getting Final Cut Express, which is a simpler version aimed at consumers rather than professionals, but is slightly more advanced than iMovie
  94. # [00:41] <annevk> reading http://diveintomark.org/archives/2008/06/29/microformats-accessibility I wonder if it's just about microformats
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  97. # [00:58] <Hixie> so sweet to see people think that it is shocking that a spec can't compel browser vendors to do what we want them to do
  98. # [00:58] <Hixie> http://www.internetschoon.nl/viewSingleItem/3117
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  100. # [01:07] <Dashiva> Hixie: That one _almost_ realized the group was founded by the very implementors he decries
  101. # [01:08] <Hixie> heh
  102. # [01:08] * annevk booked a hotel for tomorrow...
  103. # [01:08] * annevk arrives in Seattle at 2PM
  104. # [01:08] <Dashiva> "Basically all the heavy lifting for HTML5 had already been done by the WHAT-WG, which wasn\'t bound by vendors as much."
  105. # [01:08] <Hixie> tomorrow?
  106. # [01:08] <Hixie> oh, right
  107. # [01:08] <Hixie> Dashiva: missed that
  108. # [01:09] <annevk> I'm staying at HomeStead which should be pretty close to Microsoft and was the cheapest I could fine (145 USD...)
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  110. # [01:10] <annevk> and now I'm checked in too
  111. # [01:10] <Hixie> i arrive on tuesday around noon
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  113. # [01:11] <annevk> k
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  116. # [01:14] <Hixie> http is so much more complicated than necessary
  117. # [01:14] <tantek> Hixie - 1.0 or 1.1?
  118. # [01:14] <Hixie> 1.1
  119. # [01:14] <Hixie> comments in header fields
  120. # [01:14] <Hixie> q-values in the TE: header
  121. # [01:15] <Hixie> i mean sheesh
  122. # [01:16] <Dashiva> Sensible specs would take all the fun out of implementing them
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  125. # [01:17] <Hixie> also, the way the spec is organised is a mess
  126. # [01:17] <Hixie> it really should split request and response headers into two sections
  127. # [01:18] <annevk> they're splitting the spec up in seven specs it seems with httpbis
  128. # [01:18] <Hixie> and far too many thigns are SHOULDs that should be MUSTs
  129. # [01:18] <Hixie> really?
  130. # [01:18] <Hixie> seven?
  131. # [01:18] <Hixie> that'll be exciting
  132. # [01:18] <annevk> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/ietf-http-wg/2008AprJun/0595.html
  133. # [01:18] <annevk> for instance
  134. # [01:20] <annevk> it seems rather confusing to me, but this is what it seems they're doing
  135. # [01:23] <Hixie> actually that organisation does make sense
  136. # [01:24] <annevk> oh yeah, i'd imagine it makes sense, as one the authors of HTTP made it up, it's just confusing to have to browse through all those separate documents rather than just one
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  138. # [01:25] <Hixie> i need to make little stickers that say "Warning: 110" and stick them on food that i throw away
  139. # [01:25] <Hixie> or maybe stick it on bread that i give back to waiters at restaurants when the bread is stale
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  141. # [01:27] <Philip`> Hixie: Do you have many HTTP experts eating your trash?
  142. # [01:27] <Hixie> i live in the bay area, so quite possibly
  143. # [01:33] <Hixie> section 4.4 of http 1.1 says, in part:
  144. # [01:33] <Hixie> "This media type UST NOT be used unless the sender knows that the recipient can arse it"
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  165. # [04:00] <Hixie> man i wish the http rfc didn't keep talking about what servers did wrong
  166. # [04:00] <Hixie> it's quite distracting
  167. # [04:02] <Hixie> as far as i can tell, an HTTP server that just immediately closes the connection before reading a single byte from the client is "conditionally conforming"
  168. # [04:12] <bradee-oh> lol
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  181. # [07:00] <Hixie> another example of the silly overcomplexness of http:
  182. # [07:00] <Hixie> Comparison of expectation values is case-insensitive for unquoted
  183. # [07:00] <Hixie> tokens (including the 100-continue token), and is case-sensitive for
  184. # [07:00] <Hixie> quoted-string expectation-extensions.
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  190. # [07:18] <gsnedders> Hixie: yeah, it's fun :)
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  198. # [07:52] <philipj> by default simple events in HTML 5 are cancelable, but does anybody have an idea about what canceli
  199. # [07:52] <philipj> cancelling an event like timeupdate (HTMLMediaElement) might mean?
  200. # [07:54] <philipj> would cancelling a volumechange event mean setting the volume back to the old value?
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  203. # [08:00] <Hixie> philipj: canceling an event that has no default action has no effect
  204. # [08:08] <philipj> ok, so that they are cancelable is not practically relevant, still I assume that they should be made cancelable to comply with the spec
  205. # [08:10] <hsivonen> the Web in violation of Web Architecture again, film at 11
  206. # [08:10] <Hixie> hsivonen: haha
  207. # [08:11] <Hixie> philipj: yeah. at some point the spec may be made more sensible about what's cancelable and what isn't
  208. # [08:11] <gsnedders> How can the web be in breach with its own arch.? Oh, wait, this is what happens if you try and spec an overall arch.
  209. # [08:12] <hsivonen> gsnedders: I don't think it is a necessary consequence of trying to spec it
  210. # [08:12] <gsnedders> hsivonen: It contradicts itself too much I think to be spec'd, then whenever you try and spec anything more you'll just find more contradictions
  211. # [08:12] <Hixie> the web doesn't have a coherent architecture
  212. # [08:12] <Hixie> anyone who's tried working on a web browser can see that
  213. # [08:13] <gsnedders> I haven't, but I can see that :P
  214. # [08:13] <Hixie> it is best to just swallow that and move on, imho :-)
  215. # [08:13] <Hixie> man can you imagine if the html5 spec was full of paragraphs like:
  216. # [08:13] <Hixie> Many older HTTP/1.0 and HTTP/1.1 applications do not understand the
  217. # [08:13] <Hixie> Expect header.
  218. # [08:14] <gsnedders> "Um, so?"
  219. # [08:14] <Hixie> (given that this spec is nearly 10 years old, these paragraphs are really getting annoying)
  220. # [08:14] <gsnedders> There seem to be a few servers that still send HTTP/0.9 responses to any request
  221. # [08:15] <gsnedders> Which is kinda odd
  222. # [08:15] <gsnedders> XHR is bizarre in that case
  223. # [08:15] <philipj> speaking of web legacy, does anybody know where the default 300x150 box for misc elements comes from? was that the size it happened to be in old netscape or something?
  224. # [08:16] <hsivonen> gsnedders: what servers send 0.9 responses?
  225. # [08:16] <hsivonen> gsnedders: are those servers full of security holes, too
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  227. # [08:16] <gsnedders> hsivonen: I dunno. Philip` gave a list of pages that did.
  228. # [08:16] * hsivonen wonders who profides security updates for the Netscape Enterprise Server
  229. # [08:17] <gsnedders> hsivonen: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20080606#l-818
  230. # [08:17] <Hixie> philipj: yeah, i think netscape used that for iframes or ilayers or something, and that's where it comes from
  231. # [08:17] <hsivonen> a friend of mine inhereted the admin duties of a site that has been in existence for quite a while, and some of the content had <plaintext> in the file system assuming 0.9 serving
  232. # [08:17] <gsnedders> hsivonen: Oddly enough using cURL I don't get that
  233. # [08:17] <hsivonen> but the server software had long since been updated
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  235. # [08:18] <gsnedders> http://www.guadeloupe-fr.com/ doesn't work at all in cURL
  236. # [08:19] <hsivonen> gsnedders: interesting
  237. # [08:19] <hsivonen> gsnedders: I wonder if these server really date from the 0.9 era
  238. # [08:19] <gsnedders> the rest seem to be Apache/1.3 with mod_layout
  239. # [08:19] <gsnedders> And work in cURL, yet not in the HTTP client in Java Philip` used
  240. # [08:19] <hsivonen> gsnedders: or if there's just an incompetently written script copying stuff to stdout that goes straight to a socket
  241. # [08:20] * hsivonen hasn't encountered mod_layout
  242. # [08:20] * gsnedders opens up telnet
  243. # [08:20] <hsivonen> gsnedders: www.guadeloupe-fr.com doesn't work with telnet for me
  244. # [08:20] <gsnedders> Nor me
  245. # [08:21] <gsnedders> How bizarre.
  246. # [08:21] <gsnedders> Works fine in Safari
  247. # [08:21] <hsivonen> gsnedders: the drmarin.galeon.com server is not a 0.9 server
  248. # [08:21] <gsnedders> yeah, the rest aren't
  249. # [08:21] <hsivonen> gsnedders: I sent a request with a bogus Host header, and I didn't get the same content back
  250. # [08:22] <hsivonen> gsnedders: so the request dispatcher is virtual host-aware
  251. # [08:22] <hsivonen> it's just the output part that sucks
  252. # [08:22] <gsnedders> and that's HTTP/1.1
  253. # [08:22] <gsnedders> The rest are sucky output
  254. # [08:22] <gsnedders> But it shows that support is still needed (yay)
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  257. # [08:51] <gsnedders> Hixie: How are we meant to get the computer to breath for the sarcasm end tag?
  258. # [09:00] <hsivonen> gsnedders: it's not black box testable
  259. # [09:13] * weinig|aways is now known as weinig
  260. # [09:14] <othermaciej> Hixie: HTML URL does have an amusing acronym
  261. # [09:14] <othermaciej> given the details, calling it a HURL might not be so bad
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  263. # [09:23] * weinig is now known as weinig|zZz
  264. # [09:34] <gDashiva> At one point I tried to backronym ORLI but I never got anything good
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  273. # [10:29] <Hixie> so this idea of mcarter's is great but the cookie idea is only going to fly if the same port is used and if we ignore the scheme change
  274. # [10:29] <Hixie> and the authorisation thing isn't going to work unless we massively complicate the handshake to also include a 401 step
  275. # [10:32] <othermaciej> naturally, it has to be same-port (barring a mechanism like access-control)
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  283. # [10:53] <Hixie> http://www.w3.org/mid/g4a63l$tkg$1@ger.gmane.org
  284. # [10:53] <Hixie> some people are surprisingly rude on mailing lists
  285. # [10:53] <Hixie> (probably including me)
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  288. # [11:07] <Windstoss> I have a question concerning sessionStorage and localStorage… it is said, that a storage event is fired whenever data is changed to all HTMLDocuments that can access the data. How can a sessionStorage have multiple instances that affect each other? Whenever a new window is opened, the session storage area is copied but will no longer affect the original.
  289. # [11:08] <Hixie> Windstoss: generally, it can't
  290. # [11:08] <Hixie> Windstoss: hoever
  291. # [11:08] <Hixie> Windstoss: say you were on page A in a window
  292. # [11:08] <Hixie> Windstoss: and you go to page B at the same domain in the same window, and the browser keeps page A around, just in case you go back
  293. # [11:08] <Hixie> Windstoss: now when you hit back, the page A is shown back on the screen without being reloaded
  294. # [11:09] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  295. # [11:09] <Hixie> Windstoss: so now, if you changed anything in the sessionStorage while B was showing, the event will be fired on A when you return to it
  296. # [11:10] * Hixie wonders if any browsers implement RFC2817
  297. # [11:11] <Windstoss> Hixie: I see, thanks!
  298. # [11:11] <Hixie> np
  299. # [11:11] <Windstoss> Hixie: Maybe a note would help to clear this up?
  300. # [11:12] <Hixie> eventually there'll be a whole introduction section for the storage apis
  301. # [11:12] <Hixie> actually i guess there already is. but it will probably be longer.
  302. # [11:13] <Windstoss> One more question: when an HTMLDocument is affected, but not active yet, are those events kind of held back until the HTMLDocument is active?
  303. # [11:22] <Hixie> yeah
  304. # [11:22] <Hixie> it should say that somewhere
  305. # [11:22] <Hixie> can't see where right now
  306. # [11:22] <Hixie> but it's there somewhere, unless i removed it accidentally at some point
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  308. # [11:26] <Hixie> so what HTTP method should we pretend to use for web sockets
  309. # [11:26] <Hixie> GET?
  310. # [11:30] <hsivonen> SOCKET?
  311. # [11:30] * hsivonen has no idea what he is talking about
  312. # [11:30] <Hixie> heh
  313. # [11:33] <hsivonen> ooh. the WHATWG blog dashboard has a new appearance
  314. # [11:33] <hsivonen> "there are 107 comments in your spam queue right now"
  315. # [11:34] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  316. # [11:35] <hsivonen> all real spam
  317. # [11:35] <hsivonen> deleted
  318. # [11:38] * jgraham deleted the 7 articles apparently advertising holidays in Spain
  319. # [11:38] <hsivonen> jgraham: I though I just deleted them
  320. # [11:38] <hsivonen> thought
  321. # [11:39] <jgraham> hsivonen: Maybe we both did :)
  322. # [11:42] <Lachy> did you delete the offending users as well?
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  325. # [11:44] <hsivonen> Lachy: in the article case, yes. In the comment cases, no.
  326. # [11:55] <Hixie> notes on web sockets: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/notes
  327. # [11:55] <Hixie> mcarter: see ^
  328. # [11:56] <Hixie> i used GET instead of OPTIONS, to surprise unsuspecting servers less
  329. # [11:59] <Hixie> the cookies and authentication headers are going to be difficult to use in practice unless the same port is used (i'll throw in some stuff to make them be sent even though the scheme differs)
  330. # [12:00] <Hixie> i intend to drop the rfc 2817 ideas, since regular TLS is good enough i think
  331. # [12:00] <Hixie> and nobody seems to do 2817 anyway
  332. # [12:00] <Hixie> i want to have the server echo the origin and the socket uri as part of the handshake
  333. # [12:01] <Hixie> to (a) check for cross-site access being ok and (b) check that the host header is correctly interpreted
  334. # [12:01] <Hixie> (if the server just echoes them without checking them, then too bad)
  335. # [12:02] <Hixie> anyway, if anyone has comments, drop them here, i'll read them in the morning
  336. # [12:02] <Hixie> bed time now
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  344. # [13:20] <takkaria> half the problem with the old guard is that they seem to believe that defining error recovery for something is tantamount to defining a new standard
  345. # [13:22] <Lachy> takkaria, in many cases, it is defining a new standard :-)
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  347. # [13:22] <hsivonen> undefined error handling is where vendor lock-in is
  348. # [13:23] <takkaria> Lachy: yes, but in that case all implementations also define a new standard
  349. # [13:24] <hsivonen> aside: it seems that Gecko and WebKit run scripts differently when it comes to dynamic DOM insertions
  350. # [13:24] <hsivonen> the code I announced on the blog has the right nested document.write semantics in WebKit, but apparently not in Gecko
  351. # [13:27] <gDashiva> takkaria: Also, defining error recovery is encouraging errors
  352. # [13:27] <takkaria> gDashiva: yes, that's the one
  353. # [13:27] <takkaria> because if you don't define it, then no-one's interoperable, so no-one will come to rely on any errorr-handling behaviour because it varies so wildly
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  357. # [13:34] <hsivonen> takkaria: cunning plan :-)
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  359. # [13:35] <takkaria> I suspect it might actually work somewhat if the marketplace was more varied
  360. # [13:35] <Lachy> takkaria, that sounds surprisingly like the mentality of some other working groups I know
  361. # [13:36] <takkaria> e.g. if, say, no one vendor had more than 10% market share
  362. # [13:37] <Lachy> (I'm pretty sure there's a few mails on www-html or www-html-editor from an XHTML2WG members saying roughly the same thing.)
  363. # [13:42] <takkaria> I guess the mentality is a left-over from physical engineering standards
  364. # [13:43] <takkaria> there's not really any such thing as specified error recovery from getting the wrong track width for railways or different-sized screwheads
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  366. # [13:47] <Lachy> takkaria, but there does need to be error recovery when some idiot uses the wrong size screw for the job, even if the screw itself was really good quality.
  367. # [13:48] <takkaria> yeah, but the error recovery is specified by the laws of material science and those laws are fairly unchangeable. :)
  368. # [13:49] <takkaria> as least AIUI
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  371. # [14:25] <roc> error handling would still be a problem even if no vendor had more than 10% market share
  372. # [14:25] <roc> because you can be sure that *some* error situations would be handled the same way by the majority of engines, just by luck
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  374. # [14:26] <roc> so they would become the de facto standard
  375. # [14:26] <roc> and so it goes
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  385. # [17:15] * Disconnected
  386. # [17:15] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  387. # [17:15] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  388. # [17:15] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  389. # [17:15] * Set by gsnedders on Tue Dec 18 21:41:19
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  392. # [17:19] <hdh> hsivonen: I host a V.nu at home; the --stylesheet argument's first letter is cut off, it becomes '<link href="ttp://hdh.dyn-o-saur.com/style/v.nu.css" rel="stylesheet">'
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  396. # [17:27] <hdh> line 596 should have been stylesheet = arg[13:]
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  542. # [21:22] <hsivonen> hdh: fixed thanks. (the numbers for stylesheet and microsyntaxes were reversed)
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  551. # [21:54] <Hixie> mcarter: yt?
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  557. # [22:11] <hsivonen> http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/06/30/1845201.shtml
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  561. # [22:12] * hsivonen wonders if commenters are up to speed about canvas and svg
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  563. # [22:21] <othermaciej> 2D vector graphics, we'll get right on that, sir
  564. # [22:24] <othermaciej> looks like openajax.org is down, too bad, I was curious what the list is
  565. # [22:24] <Hixie> the list isn't too bad, but it aligns pretty closely with what we've already got in the works, and things we know we should have in the works but don't have editors for
  566. # [22:24] <Dashiva> How about anti-slashdotting support in browsers? :)
  567. # [22:24] <Hixie> some good ideas, though
  568. # [22:24] <Philip`> http://google.com/search?q=cache:http://www.openajax.org/runtime/wiki/Feature_Requests_Summary_Page&strip=1
  569. # [22:24] <Hixie> i spend more time crafting the checkin comments than making the edits when i'm doing editorial work
  570. # [22:24] <Hixie> that's just silly
  571. # [22:26] <Philip`> http://azarask.in/blog/post/contextfreejs-algorithm-ink-making-art-with-javascript/ wants canvas getTransform()
  572. # [22:27] <othermaciej> a lot of the things they list are things that are already in browsers afaik
  573. # [22:27] <othermaciej> well, some of them anyway
  574. # [22:28] * Philip` notices that DNS is already being widely abused to form words, disregarding the whole hierarchy idea, so it seems sensible to allow arbitrary words without forcing a weird dot in them
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  584. # [22:59] <csarven> Hixie Would you be able to verify the accuracy of this: The purpose of the <object> element is to allow the browser to run an external application for a non-native data type (e.g., Java applet).
  585. # [22:59] <hsivonen> precise terminology and defined error handling isn't exactly what RSS 2.0 is known for
  586. # [23:00] <csarven> or hsivonen :)
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  590. # [23:07] <mcarter> Hixie, whats up
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  607. # [23:58] <Hixie> mcarter: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20080630#l-326
  608. # Session Close: Tue Jul 01 00:00:00 2008

The end :)