/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-07-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jul 01 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  5. # [00:04] <Loughes> Any Opera developers in here? I have to say that I love the new browser. I am finally looking forward to where the WWW may be going.
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  10. # [00:21] <mcarter> Hixie, oh cool, you've gotten started on the WebSocket stuff
  11. # [00:21] <Hixie> indeed
  12. # [00:22] <annevk> weather is nice outside in Seattle
  13. # [00:22] <Dashiva> The talk on www-html about @style is... interesting
  14. # [00:22] <annevk> well, Redmond / Bellevue
  15. # [00:26] <Philip`> Dashiva: It's fortunate that @style got added back into HTML5 :-)
  16. # [00:27] <Dashiva> Philip`: What makes it even more odd is that they recently decided to let @target back into their new XHTML 1.1 SE thingie
  17. # [00:28] <Hixie> mcarter: any feedback on the quoted stuff? (sorry my site appears to be down, I'm working on getting it back up)
  18. # [00:29] <jacobolus> Hixie: whatwg.org seems to be down
  19. # [00:29] <jacobolus> Hixie: so it's hard to see what http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/notes actually says :)
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  22. # [00:31] <mcarter> Hixie, i think I partially loaded that document, but then the server started hanging... after you get it working I'll give you some feedback
  23. # [00:31] <Philip`> http://pastebin.ca/1059505 is what http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/notes said this morning GMT
  24. # [00:32] <Philip`> (No idea if it's changed since then)
  25. # [00:33] <Hixie> that's the one
  26. # [00:33] <Hixie> no change from that
  27. # [00:33] <Hixie> jacobolus, mcarter: ^ :-)
  28. # [00:33] <jacobolus> yep. :)
  29. # [00:33] * Hixie has narrowed it down to NFS hanging
  30. # [00:35] <mcarter> Hixie, this looks pretty good at a first glance -- let me get back to you this evening with mroe substantial feedback
  31. # [00:36] <Hixie> k
  32. # [00:36] <mcarter> Hixie, I'm not sure if it makes sense to require the headers to be in an exact order
  33. # [00:37] <jacobolus> Hixie, mcarter: this looks pretty good to me. exciting!
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  35. # [00:40] <Hixie> mcarter: the idea is to have a handshake that cannot be faked by tricking the server into sending back certain fields
  36. # [00:40] <annevk> hmm, are we going to introduce new URI schemes too?
  37. # [00:41] <annevk> fun
  38. # [00:41] <Hixie> annevk: it's a new protocol, so i guess yes
  39. # [00:41] <Philip`> URL schemes!
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  41. # [00:44] <annevk> seems whatwg.org is up again
  42. # [00:44] <Hixie> indeed
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  44. # [00:54] <Hixie> hsivonen: yt?
  45. # [00:55] <Hixie> hsivonen: in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#open there is an "act as if", but it's unclear what i should link to for that one. I mean, the token would cause all manner of things to happen (e.g. it implies <html>, <head>, <body>, quirks mode, and then finally gets treated as a <pre>)
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  47. # [01:03] <Hixie> i wonder what i should hyperlink in these "act as if" cases
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  94. # [05:30] <Hixie> I love how readyState is an integer on most interfaces, but a string on DOMString
  95. # [05:30] <Hixie> er
  96. # [05:30] <Hixie> Document
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  113. # [08:25] <Hixie> http://www.thewebsiteisdown.com/ is the funniest thing i've seen for weeks
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  116. # [08:38] <Hixie> what do you call the way of encoding integers that uses the top bit to indicate if there's more to come again?
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  120. # [09:19] <annevk> http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/blogspot/MKuf/~3/323764470/google-learns-to-crawl-flash.html :/
  121. # [09:20] <Hixie> oh cool, we finally launched that
  122. # [09:22] <annevk> yum, WebSocket
  123. # [09:26] <annevk> there are several markup errors below the readyState def
  124. # [09:26] <Hixie> there are?
  125. # [09:26] <Hixie> i may have fixed them already
  126. # [09:27] <annevk> oops, I hit F5 while the bandwidth here is terrible...
  127. # [09:28] <annevk> they advertize high speed but you get 6kb
  128. # [09:28] <Hixie> i should go to bed, i have to get up in 6 hours to catch a plane to meet you
  129. # [09:29] <annevk> i just woke up again :/
  130. # [09:29] <annevk> but yeah, sounds like a plan :)
  131. # [09:30] <annevk> (seems to be fixed btw)
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  133. # [09:33] <Hixie> what building is this meeting in again?
  134. # [09:33] <annevk> 122
  135. # [09:33] <Hixie> nm found it
  136. # [09:33] <annevk> see http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/Group/f2f0807.html
  137. # [09:34] <Hixie> yeah found it
  138. # [09:34] <Hixie> i'll be on Southwest Flight #3506 SJC-SEA, landing at 10:50am, so i should be there by 1pm
  139. # [09:35] <Hixie> nn
  140. # [09:35] <annevk> k, g'n
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  201. # [15:42] <tefery> hellow
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  205. # [15:55] <hendry> hsivonen: why do i get a bad value with a data url on http://static.webvm.net/wct/test.html
  206. # [15:55] <hendry> with validator.nu? :)
  207. # [15:57] <zcorpan> hendry: line breaks
  208. # [16:00] <hendry> zcorpan: oh thanks
  209. # [16:02] <hendry> zcorpan: i was just looking at http://simon.html5.org/articles/mobile-results btw
  210. # [16:03] <hendry> zcorpan: perhaps you had a suggestion for the "Web Compatibility Test for Mobile Browsers"?
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  217. # [16:33] <hsivonen> hendry: Valid data URIs forbid all sorts of convenience
  218. # [16:41] * Joins: philipj (n=philipj@118.71.116.245)
  219. # [16:41] <philipj> m
  220. # [16:43] <hendry> hsivonen: i don't understand ?
  221. # [16:43] * Quits: Philip` (n=philip@zaynar.demon.co.uk) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  222. # [16:44] <annevk> maybe there should be an exception for data:
  223. # [16:45] * Quits: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5laptop14.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  224. # [16:45] <hsivonen> hendry: unescaped spaces, etc. aren't allowed
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  226. # [16:51] <zcorpan> hendry: i did but i don't know if my suggestions have been implemented
  227. # [16:56] <hendry> zcorpan: i think they are in test #5 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mwts/2008Jul/0002.html
  228. # [16:57] <hendry> hsivonen: oh ok. well when i tested the "line broken" url in a couple of browsers, it worked fine.
  229. # [16:59] * bradee-slumbers is now known as bradee-oh
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  231. # [17:06] <zcorpan> hendry: ah yep, although it doesn't test drocanianness
  232. # [17:08] * Parts: philipj (n=philipj@118.71.116.245)
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  234. # [17:09] <zcorpan> Philip`_: hmm, why does http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/2d.path.arcTo.shape.curve1.html say Passed in opera 9.5?
  235. # [17:12] <zcorpan> Philip`_: is http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/2d.fillRect.zero.html correct?
  236. # [17:13] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  237. # [17:16] <zcorpan> http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/2d.path.arc.selfintersect.1.html
  238. # [17:24] * Joins: qwert666 (n=qwert666@acbg111.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  239. # [17:29] <annevk> (it says pass because presumably not enough points are compared)
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  243. # [17:40] * Philip`_ is now known as Philip`
  244. # [17:40] <Philip`> zcorpan: What annevk said
  245. # [17:41] <Philip`> I'll fix the test so that it fails :-)
  246. # [17:41] * Quits: qwert666_ (n=qwert666@acbg111.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Connection timed out)
  247. # [17:41] <annevk> it shouldn't be too expensive to just compare all points, no?
  248. # [17:41] <Philip`> (Well, I'll fix my offline copy, but I won't bother uploading it since that takes way too much effort)
  249. # [17:41] <annevk> at least when the end result is all lime
  250. # [17:42] <annevk> anyway, time to find some food
  251. # [17:42] <Philip`> annevk: That doesn't really work due to antialiasing - it needs to avoid comparing pixels around the edges of shapes, else it'll fail due to unnoticeable blending differences
  252. # [17:45] <Philip`> zcorpan: 2d.fillRect.zero is wrong - I already fixed that in my offline copy but didn't bother uploading it :-(
  253. # [17:48] <Philip`> zcorpan: Changed my thing so that 2d.path.arc.selfintersect.1 fails too - it's not meant to be testing for that bug but I suppose there's no reason why it shouldn't
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  263. # [18:15] <gsnedders> Philip`, jgraham: Either of you have my phone number? I'm gonna be offline from tonight till next Tues/Wed, so it may be worthwhile for (at least) one of you to have it
  264. # [18:16] <Philip`> gsnedders: I don't know whether either of us has it
  265. # [18:16] <gsnedders> it's at the end of http://stuff.gsnedders.com/http-parsing.txt
  266. # [18:16] <Philip`> (hence you can logically deduce that I don't have it)
  267. # [18:17] * Philip` saves that somewhere
  268. # [18:18] * Parts: annevk (n=annevk@65.219.168.142)
  269. # [18:18] <gsnedders> (it also has my address if anyone wants to stalk me)
  270. # [18:21] <Philip`> gsnedders: Did we agree some specific time? Grep says "20080707" / "7-ish" / same location as before, but I don't have any clocks with 7-ish marked on them so I wouldn't be quite sure when that is
  271. # [18:21] <gsnedders> Philip`: 20080707T190000+01
  272. # [18:21] <gsnedders> Philip`: 20080707T190000+0100 to be exact
  273. # [18:22] <Philip`> 20080707T190+0100 is probably as specific as I can manage :-)
  274. # [18:22] <gsnedders> Philip`: Yeah, I was guessing you'd be late, again :P
  275. # [18:22] <Philip`> Anyway, sounds fine to me
  276. # [18:23] <Philip`> as long as someone reminds me in case I forget
  277. # [18:23] * Joins: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben)
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  279. # [18:24] <gsnedders> Well, I know how long it takes to get there, now, so perhaps I can be on time
  280. # [18:25] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@12.45.39.194)
  281. # [18:26] * Philip` sets up cron as a reminder, though he's probably set it up wrong
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  283. # [18:28] <gsnedders> jgraham: remind Philip`
  284. # [18:28] * Quits: shepazutoo (n=schepers@71-35-136-181.tukw.qwest.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  285. # [18:29] <gsnedders> that's about as much as I can do to remind you :P
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  303. # [19:23] <Dashiva> Oh snap. Did RB just call Hixie incompetent?
  304. # [19:24] <krijnh> Isn't he implying that all the time? :)
  305. # [19:25] <Dashiva> Fair enough, but this one surprised me: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5822#c2
  306. # [19:26] <annevk> http://isen.com/blog/2008/05/four-paths-to-nz-internet-leadership.html
  307. # [19:28] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-44-35-200.range217-44.btcentralplus.com)
  308. # [19:32] <krijnh> Dashiva: it has the same tone as every other mail he sends..
  309. # [19:33] <krijnh> annevk: no news about logging #webapps? :)
  310. # [19:33] <Dashiva> Not much point. Nobody talks there outside of telcons, and they don't have the telcons there if it's logged :)
  311. # [19:34] <krijnh> Ke, makes sense
  312. # [19:37] <Philip`> The process around the logging reveals more than the logging itself would :-)
  313. # [19:38] <krijnh> :)
  314. # [19:38] <Dashiva> Without it I would never have learned what "open" actually means
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  332. # [19:53] <Dashiva> So now that URLs are nearing as-done-as-it-gets, I wonder if we'll see WF2 work
  333. # [19:56] * Joins: roc (n=roc@121-72-180-209.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  334. # [19:58] <jcranmer> Dashiva: I think he, in calling Hixie incompetent, showed his incompetency
  335. # [20:08] * Joins: annevk (n=annevk@131.107.204.126)
  336. # [20:12] <annevk> http://isen.com/blog/2008/03/next-president-internet-policy.html
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  338. # [20:28] <Hixie> merry mailman mailing list reminder day everyone
  339. # [20:29] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-313d060835a01970)
  340. # [20:30] <Hixie> wow, we've beaten the www-html daily traffic record for some time
  341. # [20:30] <annevk> whatwg@whatwg.org ?
  342. # [20:31] <gsnedders> jcranmer: who?
  343. # [20:31] <jcranmer> gsnedders: RB
  344. # [20:31] <gsnedders> jcranmer: ah
  345. # [20:31] <jcranmer> conversation happened 3 min before you arrived
  346. # [20:31] <gsnedders> damned Apple releasing system updates!
  347. # [20:33] * gsnedders reads his description of what the header is for, and wonders what the use of something that complex is
  348. # [20:33] <jgraham> RB's comment was funny. I mean I think there might be a legitimate reason for the feature request but the way he phrased his comment suggests that he's either oblivious or taking the piss
  349. # [20:33] <Hixie> no i mean more traffic to www-html than we've had for days
  350. # [20:34] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@131.107.204.126)
  351. # [20:34] <gsnedders> that's it, we need a better mailing list.
  352. # [20:34] <annevk> ah
  353. # [20:34] <gsnedders> gsnedders-is-awesome, anybody?
  354. # [20:35] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@131.107.204.126)
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  357. # [20:41] <JaffaTheCake> hullo
  358. # [20:42] <JaffaTheCake> Anyone alive that can answer some questions on <abbr>?
  359. # [20:42] <annevk> sure
  360. # [20:43] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@131.107.204.126) ("Less talk, more pimp walk.")
  361. # [20:43] <JaffaTheCake> Looking at the html4 & xhtml2 specs, it seems to suggest that anything that can have an expansion should be wrapped in <abbr title=""></abbr>
  362. # [20:43] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@131.107.204.126)
  363. # [20:44] <annevk> not the case in HTML5
  364. # [20:44] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@131.107.204.126) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  365. # [20:44] <Hixie> yeah you only need to wrap abbreviations you want to annotate, basically
  366. # [20:44] <JaffaTheCake> However, the html5 spec seems to suggest only abbreviations that are vocally pronounced should have the abbr element
  367. # [20:44] <JaffaTheCake> ahh
  368. # [20:44] <JaffaTheCake> excellent
  369. # [20:44] <JaffaTheCake> That was my reading
  370. # [20:44] <JaffaTheCake> Just checking
  371. # [20:44] <Hixie> doesn't have to just be the vocally pronounced ones necessarily
  372. # [20:44] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@131.107.204.126)
  373. # [20:44] <Hixie> just the ones you want to annotate with an expansion :-)
  374. # [20:45] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@131.107.204.126) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  375. # [20:45] <JaffaTheCake> fair enough
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  378. # [20:45] <JaffaTheCake> I guess the microformat abbr date pattern goes against that thinking?
  379. # [20:46] <Hixie> in html5 instead of <abbr> for date and times you can use <time> :-)
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  383. # [20:46] <jcranmer> forget mailing lists, someone needs to update mailman to use HTML 5
  384. # [20:47] <jcranmer> or at least HTML 4.01
  385. # [20:48] <annevk> or have it use the W3C mailing list software
  386. # [20:48] <JaffaTheCake> Yeah, saw the time thingy, great to finally have that in a spec.
  387. # [20:48] <Hixie> the w3c mailing list software is pretty awesome except for one thing, which is the way it doesn't do cross-references across mailing lists or months
  388. # [20:49] <JaffaTheCake> But I think it's worth following the html5 idea of abbr now, or at least as much as you can while still being valid html4
  389. # [20:50] <JaffaTheCake> So I'm guessing <abbr title="2008-07-07">next Monday</abbr> would be a misuse of abbr in html5's eyes
  390. # [20:50] <jcranmer> Hixie: I'm working on trying to fix that, at least for a select group of users :-)
  391. # [20:50] <JaffaTheCake> ignoring that html5 has a better tag for the job
  392. # [20:52] <Hixie> JaffaTheCake: yeah
  393. # [20:53] <othermaciej> yeah it is always a pain to read cross-month threads via the archives
  394. # [20:53] <JaffaTheCake> Cheers guys
  395. # [20:55] <JaffaTheCake> It's probably worth expending the bit on abbr in the spec to make it completely clear (more examples and such), unless I'm alone in my dumbness. It's frequently abused to it's worth keeping ambiguity to a minimum
  396. # [20:57] <Hixie> it has five examples already :-)
  397. # [20:57] <Hixie> but i'd be happy to add more
  398. # [21:02] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  399. # [21:05] <hsivonen> looks like the term "benevolent dictator" is a PR problem outside the Python communtity
  400. # [21:05] <hsivonen> http://www.w3.org/QA/2008/06/what_benevolent_dictator.html
  401. # [21:06] <Dashiva> They should use philosopher king instead then ;)
  402. # [21:10] * Hixie comments unproductively on that blog post
  403. # [21:10] * Quits: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) ("Leaving")
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  410. # [21:32] <JaffaTheCake> Hixie: Perhaps not another example then, but a bit more on when it would be used and when it wouldn't (and why). Especially as it's a significant difference from HTML4
  411. # [21:39] <Hixie> could you send an e-mail to that effect to whatwg@whatwg.org? (otherwise i'll forget, i'm deep in the web sockets stuff right now)
  412. # [21:41] <JaffaTheCake> Yeah sure
  413. # [21:41] <JaffaTheCake> no probs
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  416. # [21:43] * jgraham wonders if he is the only person who is irritated by the W3C's comment moderation system
  417. # [21:47] <Hixie> JaffaTheCake: thanks dude
  418. # [21:49] <hsivonen> Hixie: Thanks for the recent fixes for the bugs I filed.
  419. # [21:50] <hsivonen> Hixie: I'm a bit surprised, though, that you opted to qualify the scopingness of the non-foreignObject stack nodes by the HTML namespace
  420. # [21:50] <hsivonen> I'll have to study what the effect is, since not all of them break out of foreign content
  421. # [21:50] <Hixie> hm?
  422. # [21:51] <Hixie> i wasn't aware that i had done something surprising
  423. # [21:51] <Hixie> hsivonen: could you elaborate?
  424. # [21:52] <Hixie> maybe it was unintentional
  425. # [21:54] <hsivonen> Hixie: consider http://parsetree.validator.nu/?parser=html5&content=%3Cmath%3E%3Cmrow%3Efoo%3Cobject%3Ebar%3C%2Fmrow%3Ebaz%3C%2Fobject%3E%3C%2Fmath%3E&submit=Print+Tree
  426. # [21:55] <hsivonen> Hixie: in my implementation, the scoping elements other than foreignObject retain their scopingness even if assigned to a foreign namespace
  427. # [21:55] <hsivonen> Hixie: I thought this was intentional to minimize tree shape differences of cargo cult paste
  428. # [21:56] <hsivonen> vs. http://parsetree.validator.nu/?parser=html5&content=%3Cmath%3E%3Cmrow%3Efoo%3Cnot-object%3Ebar%3C%2Fmrow%3Ebaz%3C%2Fnot-object%3E%3C%2Fmath%3E&submit=Print+Tree
  429. # [21:58] * othermaciej_ is now known as othermaciej
  430. # [22:03] <Hixie> oh good lord no, that was never itended
  431. # [22:03] <Hixie> intended
  432. # [22:03] <Hixie> if that had been intended it wouldn't have linked to the definitions of the elements
  433. # [22:04] <hsivonen> hmm interesting. I guess I'll have some code to change then
  434. # [22:05] <hsivonen> as far as I could tell, what I implemented matched the spririt of the foreign content design
  435. # [22:08] <Hixie> that would just lead to really weird effects
  436. # [22:08] <Hixie> my intent was to make the foreign content as surprise-free as possible
  437. # [22:08] <hsivonen> Hixie: what weird effects? one would never notice with proper nesting
  438. # [22:09] <Hixie> sure but one missed end tag (or /) and boom, the whole dom goes weird
  439. # [22:09] <hsivonen> one would never notice with what's today valid MathML or SVG, either
  440. # [22:13] <hsivonen> OK. I'll make the scoping HTML elements non-scoping, but I think that to make things non-weird, <font> really can't unconditionally break foreign content
  441. # [22:14] <Hixie> <font> needs research
  442. # [22:14] * Quits: maikmerten (n=maikmert@Lbe97.l.pppool.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  443. # [22:18] <Hixie> annevk, weinig, othermaciej: the binary stuff is a v2 feature anyway, we'll see if we can get browsers doing UTF-8 first!
  444. # [22:18] * weinig nods
  445. # [22:18] * Quits: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva) (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  446. # [22:18] <othermaciej> yeah as long as the protocol is prepared for different packet types
  447. # [22:18] <Hixie> yep
  448. # [22:19] <Hixie> my protocol strawman is:
  449. # [22:19] <annevk> i suppose you can .data, and .bytes or .blob in the future
  450. # [22:19] <annevk> can have*
  451. # [22:19] <Hixie> text frame: 0x00 [zero or more UTF-8 bytes] 0xFF
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  457. # [22:20] <annevk> adding members to Event interfaces shows how broken the init* stuff is
  458. # [22:20] <othermaciej> Hixie: I think type/length prefix would be better than start and end delimiters
  459. # [22:20] <Hixie> other frames: if the first byte & 0x80 == 0x00, then read bytes until 0xFF and then discard
  460. # [22:20] <Hixie> other frames: if the first byte & 0x80 == 0x80, then read a length (7-bit extended integer) and then read that many bytes and then discard
  461. # [22:21] <Hixie> (binary data will use frame type 0x80 in a future version)
  462. # [22:21] <Hixie> othermaciej: you don't want the server to have to measure UTF-8 strings, it's too easy to get it wrong and not notice for a long time (e.g. if you only test with ASCII)
  463. # [22:21] <Hixie> othermaciej: but for binary data you want a length, hence the other frame type
  464. # [22:23] <othermaciej> Hixie: I see your point about measuring but having both approaches also seems risky, since clients will have to support both to correctly find packet boundaries but one will likely be untested in the wild at first
  465. # [22:24] <othermaciej> (gonna try to pay attention to meeting now)
  466. # [22:24] <hsivonen> do Web Sockets violate Architecture if they use GET?
  467. # [22:24] <hsivonen> do they use GET?
  468. # [22:25] <Hixie> they're not HTTP
  469. # [22:25] <Hixie> that's my line and i'm sticking to it
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  471. # [22:28] <hsivonen> my gut tells to use a non-cacheable method for handshake, but I don't have any substance for this gut feeling
  472. # [22:28] <Hixie> who would be doing the caching?
  473. # [22:28] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  474. # [22:28] <hsivonen> Hixie: a proxy
  475. # [22:29] <Hixie> the proxy doesn't see the request, you do a CONNECT to it like with TLS
  476. # [22:29] <hsivonen> Hixie: a transparent proxy so that the browser doesn't know it is talking to a proxy
  477. # [22:30] <hsivonen> hmm. will Web Sockets break with transparent proxies anyway?
  478. # [22:31] <Hixie> so the problem case is when client accesses server, server doesn't yet do Web Sockets and so returns a 200 OK, and then later the client tries to connect again and the cache says "200 OK" instead of upgrading?
  479. # [22:31] * hsivonen wonders if transparent proxies are in violation of Architecture
  480. # [22:31] <Hixie> btw i recently learnt that what we call "transparent proxies" aren't what http calls "transparent proxies"
  481. # [22:32] <hsivonen> Hixie: the problem is that the proxy manages to cache a response for someone else first without proper Vary stuff
  482. # [22:32] <hsivonen> but like I said, my gut feeling has no substance
  483. # [22:32] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-180-209.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  484. # [22:34] <hsivonen> Hixie: did you consider minting a method like SOCKET or WEBSOCKET and rejected it?
  485. # [22:38] <hsivonen> does MSN search inside silverlight content?
  486. # [22:39] <Hixie> i considered it
  487. # [22:40] <Hixie> wasn't really sure what to do about it
  488. # [22:40] <Hixie> i guess we could
  489. # [22:42] <annevk> servers handle custom methods quite well nowadays
  490. # [22:43] <hsivonen> hmm. now that I think about it, minting a new method will need testing with AJP13 and mod_jk
  491. # [22:44] <hsivonen> unless, of course, there's a reason why mod_jk can't exist on a socket path anyway
  492. # [22:44] <Hixie> no idea
  493. # [22:45] <hsivonen> in any case, Web Sockets is the kind of thing you'd expect people to want to implement in a process whose Web connectivity goes through mod_jk
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  496. # [23:01] <hsivonen> annevk: so it turns out that Standards Suck is available to S60 phones on YouTube, but there's no way to navigate to it from standardssuck.org
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  499. # [23:02] <annevk> weird
  500. # [23:02] <hsivonen> clearly, we need support for HTML5 video in both browsers for S60 and on YouTube
  501. # [23:02] <annevk> yes
  502. # [23:04] * Quits: deane (n=dean@121-72-172-119.dsl.telstraclear.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  503. # [23:06] <hsivonen> http://m.youtube.com/profile?user=standardssuck&warned=1
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The end :)