/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-10-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Oct 31 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  18. # [00:56] * Hixie giggles
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  20. # [00:56] <Hixie> my girlfriend went to pick me up at rochester airport
  21. # [00:57] <Hixie> sadly my flight landed at buffalo!
  22. # [00:57] <Hixie> which to be fair to the airline, is what the itinerary said
  23. # [00:57] <Dashiva> Sounds like a job for geolocation
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  25. # [00:58] <Hixie> hm, 3000ms pings
  26. # [00:58] <Hixie> good times
  27. # [00:58] * Hixie goes to look for food
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  33. # [01:12] <sicking_> Hixie, workers spec doesn't seem to say that Workers should be EventTargets, only that the scope i
  34. # [01:12] <sicking_> s
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  45. # [02:06] <Hixie> sicking: can you send mail on that? i'm in an airport right now, not in the best position to remember feedback
  46. # [02:06] <Hixie> thanks
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  116. # [11:22] <zcorpan> "8592-01-01T02:09+02:09" Midnight UTC on ...
  117. # [11:23] <zcorpan> Hixie: doesn't look like midnight to me
  118. # [11:24] <zcorpan> oh wait
  119. # [11:24] <zcorpan> nm
  120. # [11:24] <hsivonen> it seems that UTC is to UT1 what URL is to IRI
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  124. # [11:40] <hsivonen> zcorpan: I filed bugs for the input[size] and content-language mentioned in the sitepoint thread you mentioned yesterday. thanks
  125. # [11:43] <hsivonen> Hixie: if an author serves FooML+XBL2 to a browser, which tree would one put ARIA attributes in?
  126. # [11:44] <hsivonen> Hixie: I think axioms say the FooML tree
  127. # [11:44] <hsivonen> Hixie: but in practice a desire for encapsulation says the shadow tree created by XBL2
  128. # [11:45] <hsivonen> seems like a big accessibility problem down the road
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  131. # [12:38] <Dashiva> Has the <q> thread managed to come up with a solution that allows using <q> in languages that puts the following punctuation within the quote marks?
  132. # [12:39] <Dashiva> I must admit to skimming the most outrageous quote trains :)
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  134. # [12:43] <hsivonen> I wonder if I'd only contribute to the damage done by the denial of productivity effect of <q> if I pointed out some of its history in order to make a point that the semantic need is questionable...
  135. # [12:55] <Lachy> hsivonen, please do
  136. # [12:58] <Lachy> Dashiva, although I really hate that convention, the solution is to put the punctuation within the <q> element if that's what you need.
  137. # [12:58] <Lachy> IMHO, punctuation should only be within the quote marks if it is part of the quote itself, otherwise it should go after.
  138. # [13:03] <didymos> Lachy, but there are plenty of people who disagree with you :)
  139. # [13:03] <didymos> (myself not included, though)
  140. # [13:03] <Dashiva> Lachy: But that's just plain _wrong_ when the punctuation isn't part of the quote
  141. # [13:08] <Philip`> The correct method of quoting is obvious in the computerised world: you copy-and-paste what someone else wrote, put quotation marks around it, and then put all your extra words and punctuation outside the quotes
  142. # [13:09] <Philip`> The old world didn't have copy-and-paste, so they could be excused for doing silly things like adding punctuation inside quotes instead :-)
  143. # [13:10] <hsivonen> Lachy: I disagree with you in the case of en-US. :-)
  144. # [13:11] <hsivonen> one of the many problems with <q> is that languages high up in the pecking order (en-US and fr-FR) are illogical in the sense that quotation marks do not strictly delimit the quoted string
  145. # [13:12] <Dashiva> Eggsac-tly
  146. # [13:13] <Lachy> Dashiva, what exactly is wrong with what I said?
  147. # [13:14] <hsivonen> Lachy: what's wrong is that implementing what you said for en-US is economically a bad idea
  148. # [13:14] <hsivonen> Lachy: which inline box model bugs would you forgo the fixes for while top hackers implement punctuation flipping?
  149. # [13:14] <Lachy> hsivonen, I think you misunderstood what I said
  150. # [13:15] <Dashiva> Lachy: HTML does not have a mandate to change national languages
  151. # [13:16] <Lachy> if the punctuation should be within the quote marks, then the author should put it within the <q> element. e.g. <q>Some quote.</q> --> "Some quote." Otherwise, the author should put it outside. e.g. <q>Some quote</q>. --> "Some quote".
  152. # [13:16] <Lachy> Dashiva, I never said it did
  153. # [13:17] * Philip` notes that IE8b2 (at least on an en-GB system) seems to use single quotes for <q> by default, and double quotes once you add lang=en
  154. # [13:17] <hsivonen> whoa. gsnedders isn't here today.
  155. # [13:17] <hsivonen> he has a copy of The Handbook, right?
  156. # [13:18] <Dashiva> Lachy: No, it seems you're suggesting mangling the quote instead
  157. # [13:18] <Lachy> what?
  158. # [13:19] <Dashiva> The trailing punctuation is not necessarily part of the quote
  159. # [13:19] <Lachy> It's not me mangling the quotes, it's the illogical languages that incorrectly stick punctuation within quotation marks where it doesn't belong.
  160. # [13:20] <Lachy> that's why I said "IMHO, punctuation should only be within the quote marks if it is part of the quote itself, otherwise it should go after."
  161. # [13:20] <Dashiva> Yes, but as I said, we don't go around changing languages
  162. # [13:21] * Philip` sees that IE8b2 does 'x"y"z' for default <q> (on an en-GB system), "x'y'z" if lang=en or lang=en-xx where xx is not gb, and those double/single chevron things if lang=fr
  163. # [13:22] <Lachy> Philip`, so does it do "x'y'z" for en-AU?
  164. # [13:22] <Philip`> (When I say """ and "'", I mean the curly equivalents)
  165. # [13:23] <Lachy> (I'm not sure what the correct way is supposed to be, but I always do it that way)
  166. # [13:23] <Philip`> Lachy: Yes
  167. # [13:24] <Lachy> so is it doing that based on the system's own language settings when it isn't explicitly declared in the page?
  168. # [13:24] <Philip`> lang=no has funny quotes
  169. # [13:24] <Philip`> (Double-chevron, then comma/apostrophe or something)
  170. # [13:25] <Philip`> Lachy: I don't know - I'd need to change my system's language settings to test that, but I'm not sure how (and don't have time now)
  171. # [13:25] * Lachy wonders what a Double-chevron is
  172. # [13:26] <hsivonen> Philip`: do you mean right-pointing double guillemet?
  173. # [13:26] * Philip` might be using the wrong term
  174. # [13:26] <Philip`> I mean something that looks like 《
  175. # [13:27] <Philip`> which my font doesn't really like, so it's the character that's like <<
  176. # [15:27] * Disconnected
  177. # [20:22] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
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  179. # [20:22] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  180. # [20:22] * Set by Hixie on Thu Oct 23 14:38:15
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  209. # [23:19] * Quits: maikmerten (n=maikmert@L8a9d.l.pppool.de) (Client Quit)
  210. # [23:21] * Quits: tndH (n=Rob@james-baillie-pc083-058.student-halls.leeds.ac.uk) (Remote closed the connection)
  211. # [23:24] * Quits: cplot (n=cplot@99.190.229.45)
  212. # [23:27] * Joins: famicom (i=famicom@5ED2FF2D.cable.ziggo.nl)
  213. # [23:27] * Joins: annevk2 (n=annevk@65.206.204.186)
  214. # [23:36] * Quits: annevk2 (n=annevk@65.206.204.186) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  215. # [23:36] * Joins: annevk2 (n=annevk@65.206.204.186)
  216. # [23:43] * Quits: Maurice` (n=copyman@cc90688-a.emmen1.dr.home.nl) ("Disconnected...")
  217. # [23:46] * Quits: Maghnus (n=Maghnus@68-190-147-184.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  218. # [23:47] * Joins: kingryan (n=ryan@c-24-5-77-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  219. # [23:50] * Parts: blooberry (n=brian@c-76-126-196-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  220. # Session Close: Sat Nov 01 00:00:00 2008

The end :)