/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-11-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Nov 08 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  8. # [00:16] <justben> Minor issue with html5lib CSS sanitizer. Anyone here who can accept a patch?
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  12. # [00:20] <justben> Well, assuming someone will see this sooner or later in logs. One of the regexes backtracks horribly if it's passed a long css string.
  13. # [00:20] <justben> Sample at http://ben.lateralfricative.net/patches/html5lib/css-sanitizer-re-tweak/evil-table.html.gz
  14. # [00:20] <smedero> hrm, well probably jgraham or Philip` I suppose... but I imagine you could just create a new issue on the google project and attach the patch. http://code.google.com/p/html5lib/issues/entry
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  16. # [00:21] <justben> Alas, that appears to require a google account, and my brain is about full up on web accounts right now.
  17. # [00:21] <justben> Anyway, I've got a tiny patch at http://ben.lateralfricative.net/patches/html5lib/css-sanitizer-re-tweak/css-sanitizer-re-tweak.patch.gz that eliminates some backtracking.
  18. # [00:22] <justben> On my computer it reduces the processing for evil-table.html from ~45mins to ~2secs.
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  20. # [00:23] <justben> I don't hang around here typically, but I'm xmpp: and mailto:ben@lateralfricative.net if anyone wants to talk about it.
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  24. # [00:35] <justben> Cheers!
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  95. # [09:56] <takkaria> Philip`: live streaming video means you need a licence. trufact
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  102. # [12:34] <Philip`> takkaria: Well, obviously not in general, but I'm thinking of the live streaming BBC channels
  103. # [12:35] <Philip`> since that doesn't seem much different to a PC with a TV tuner card plugged into an aerial, for which you do need a licence
  104. # [12:37] <Lachy> Philip`, since when do you need a licence to to have a tuner card in a PC?
  105. # [12:37] <Lachy> or, in which country?
  106. # [12:40] <Philip`> Lachy: Since probably 1946
  107. # [12:40] <Philip`> in the UK
  108. # [12:41] <Philip`> http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp#link1 - "You need a TV Licence to use any television receiving equipment such as a TV set, digital box, DVD or video recorder, PC, laptop or mobile phone to watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV."
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  110. # [12:52] <Lachy> oh, wow
  111. # [12:52] <Lachy> There are no such licences in Australia
  112. # [12:54] <Lachy> woah! So you pay £139.50 each year just for a TV?!
  113. # [12:55] <Lachy> is that per-TV or per household?
  114. # [12:56] <Lachy> how do they enforce it, since it wouldn't be possible to know whether or not you have a TV unless they inspected your house
  115. # [12:57] <Philip`> Per household
  116. # [12:58] <Philip`> They're not being too unreasonable - you get a discount if you have a black-and-white TV or are blind
  117. # [12:58] <Lachy> I noticed the discount for B&W, but surely everyone has colour these days
  118. # [12:59] <Philip`> In my experience, they enforce it by sending increasingly threatening letters telling you that it's a criminal offence to watch TV without a licence, and that's about it
  119. # [12:59] <Philip`> Apparently they do sometimes send people to check, but you can just tell them to go away and not let them in
  120. # [13:00] <Philip`> but I think they can then get a warrant or something, to allow them to search for illicit TVs
  121. # [13:01] <koredn> It is the same in germany - only it is about 400€ / year
  122. # [13:02] <Philip`> Hmm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_licence#Germany says €204.36/year
  123. # [13:03] <koredn> OK that depends on some factors, like if you additionally have radio and so on...
  124. # [13:03] <Philip`> Ah, okay
  125. # [13:05] <koredn> Looks like I imagined the exact amount of money wrong...
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  127. # [13:11] <Philip`> Do people complain a lot about the licence fee in Germany?
  128. # [13:20] <Lachy> So our taxes pay about $0.08 per day for the ABC, which works out about $30 per year, which is reasonable. But even then, I think that's only for people earning over about $50,000 per year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_licence#Australia
  129. # [13:27] <Philip`> Is ABC's output good?
  130. # [13:30] <Lachy> yeah, it's pretty good for some people.
  131. # [13:30] <Lachy> They have a lot of programs aimed at kids or at the older generation (over 40s). I don't really like many of their programs myself
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  141. # [15:37] <ehird> http://www.bluishcoder.co.nz/2008/11/video-audio-and-cross-domain-usage.html Umm, what's next, doing this for <img> too?
  142. # [15:43] <Philip`> ehird: No, because that would break backward compatibility to an unacceptable extent
  143. # [15:43] <ehird> It doesn't exactly, you know, make sense.
  144. # [15:44] <Philip`> so instead we have more complex security rules for <img> (e.g. if it's cross-domain then you can't draw it to a <canvas> then read pixels back)
  145. # [15:44] <ehird> That's...really ridiculous.
  146. # [15:45] <Philip`> See this channel's topic :-)
  147. # [15:46] <Philip`> http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/theora/2008-November/001958.html seems like a good description of the various relevant issues
  148. # [15:49] <ehird> Philip`: This'll screw up that amazon thing whose name I forget.
  149. # [15:49] <Philip`> S3?
  150. # [15:49] <Philip`> or CDNs is general, where you get someone else to host all your big media files?
  151. # [15:49] <ehird> Yeah.
  152. # [15:49] <Philip`> *in general
  153. # [15:49] <ehird> It'll be years upon years before they add the access control stuff, I bet.
  154. # [15:50] <ehird> so it'll slow adoption of <video> &c
  155. # [15:50] <Philip`> Access Control isn't hard to add - it's just a few HTTP headers
  156. # [15:50] <Philip`> and if their customers demand it, I don't see why they wouldn't be happy to add it quickly
  157. # [15:50] <ehird> Philip`: will their customers demand it? More likely they won't just use <video>, IMO...
  158. # [15:54] <Philip`> Amazon S3 apparently already lets you set custom HTTP headers for your files, so I think you could just add a "Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *" and it'd be fine
  159. # [15:56] <ehird> Oh, okay.
  160. # [15:56] <Philip`> Oh, actually, I might be wrong
  161. # [15:56] <ehird> Oh, okay.
  162. # [15:57] <Philip`> so I don't know really
  163. # [15:57] <Philip`> but if it's not possible already, it doesn't seem like the kind of change that would take them years to implement if you asked them nicely
  164. # [15:58] <Philip`> and once one person has asked, everyone else will be able to use that feature too
  165. # [15:58] <Philip`> and then they'll expect all the competing services to offer that feature too
  166. # [15:58] <ehird> mm
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  203. # [22:15] <takkaria> Philip`: live streaming bbc stuff of any kind requires a tv licence
  204. # [22:18] <Philip`> takkaria: It's strange that they never advertise or warn about that with the streaming stuff on their web site - I guess they assume it's too minor a problem to be concerned with, since most people will have real TVs anyway
  205. # [22:20] * Philip` presumes nobody would really be fined £1000 for visiting the BBC news web site and clicking 'play' on the video when they don't have a TV licence
  206. # [22:23] <takkaria> I saw a warning up on there once about it
  207. # [22:25] <Dashiva> What about us dirty foreigners?
  208. # [22:27] <takkaria> you probably get warned about something too
  209. # [22:28] <takkaria> dunno, never been a foreigner
  210. # [22:28] <Philip`> Oh, I've never noticed a warning
  211. # [22:28] <Philip`> Foreigners already get a different version of the news site, with adverts
  212. # [22:28] <Philip`> so I guess they remove the live streaming video too
  213. # [22:28] <jmb> they do
  214. # [22:28] <Philip`> (based on IP)
  215. # [22:28] <jmb> it looks truly odd :)
  216. # [22:29] <Lachy> what about us dirty foreigners with ad blockers?
  217. # [22:29] <Philip`> (What they need is for ISPs to provide an IP -> postal address lookup service, which can be correlated with the TV licensing database, to determine whether the user should be allowed to see the video or not)
  218. # [22:29] <jmb> cool. then they can lose that!
  219. # [22:30] <Philip`> Lachy: You're just leeches on British society
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  221. # [22:31] <Lachy> actually, other than just now, I can't remember the last time I even looked at the BBC website
  222. # [22:32] <Lachy> although i suppose I have downloaded a number of documentaries
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  236. # Session Close: Sun Nov 09 00:00:00 2008

The end :)