/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-11-30 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Nov 30 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  4. # [00:03] * Philip` thinks people should write spec algorithms without unnecessarily relying on goto, since real programmers discovered that was a bad idea decades ago :-p
  5. # [00:04] <Hixie> yeah i've been trying to move away from goto
  6. # [00:04] <BenMillard> jgraham, how come the cell "Indicates explicit relationship between this document and other resources. As such there are many good uses!" gets none of the 3 header cells from the 1st level applied to it here? Bug in the code or shortcoming of the algorithm? http://james.html5.org/tables/table_inspector.py?input_type=type_uri&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fkeryx.se%2Fresources%2Fhtml-elements.xhtml&source=&algorithm=smartheaders
  7. # [00:04] <Hixie> Philip`: unfortunately english doesn't have well-defined structured flow constructs
  8. # [00:05] <Philip`> Inventing some syntax for 'while' and nested 'if' seems like it should be easier to read than these "11. Jump back to step 8." things
  9. # [00:06] <BenMillard> it has nested lists and says "for each foo, repeat these steps" or similar in some places, which seems good
  10. # [00:06] <Hixie> i've definitely stopped using "jump back to step N"
  11. # [00:07] <BenMillard> Roy Fielding gave feedback on the structure of algorithms in HTML5, IIRC
  12. # [00:07] <BenMillard> something about multiple exit points?
  13. # [00:07] <Hixie> uri?
  14. # [00:07] <BenMillard> it was some time ago...I'll try to find it
  15. # [00:07] <Philip`> Multiple entry points are far nastier than multiple exit points
  16. # [00:09] <BenMillard> Philip`, maybe that was it...still looking
  17. # [00:09] <Dashiva> I suggested Hixie should use labelled loops a while back, since plain English for 'break' and 'continue' are also confusing with nested loops :)
  18. # [00:09] <Philip`> (Most people seem perfectly happy to sprinkle 'return' all through their code, since it's easy to see the exits when you're reading through the code, whereas unrestrained gotos can jump anywhere and you can't see them)
  19. # [00:09] <BenMillard> aha
  20. # [00:10] <Philip`> (INTERCAL solves that last problem by using COME FROM instead of GOTO, so you don't have to worry about invisible entry points in your code)
  21. # [00:10] <Dashiva> I was just bout to mention intercal :)
  22. # [00:10] <BenMillard> search for "entry" here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Aug/0980.html
  23. # [00:10] <Hixie> BenMillard: regarding that table, looks like a bug in the tool; as far as i can tell the heading cells should apply per spec
  24. # [00:11] <Hixie> Dashiva: basically i do labelled loops now
  25. # [00:11] <BenMillard> Hixie, that link is to the e-mail from Roy, August 2007
  26. # [00:11] <BenMillard> Hixie, yeah that may well be the case
  27. # [00:12] <Lachy> gsnedders, the algorithm is significantly better than it was. Most problems with it before have been fixed
  28. # [00:13] <BenMillard> Hixie & jgraham, in the HTML5 mode the 3 1st-level of header cells are applied. However, the "Information" header in the 2nd level is not applied: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Aug/0980.html
  29. # [00:13] <Lachy> But I have a problem with the way the variable i is incremented
  30. # [00:14] <BenMillard> Hixie, my reading of the HTML5 algorithm is that both levels should be applied to the data cell, but the header cells don't apply to each other?
  31. # [00:14] <Hixie> BenMillard: i don't really understand that e-mail
  32. # [00:14] <Hixie> BenMillard: yeah, i think that's right
  33. # [00:15] <Lachy> gsnedders, to illustrate, consider a page which contains these elements throughout the page: <span title="foo"/>...<span title="bar"/>...<span title="bar"/>...<span title="foo"/>
  34. # [00:16] <Lachy> per the algorithm, the IDs will be: foo, bar, bar-1, foo-2
  35. # [00:16] <BenMillard> Hixie, me neither...but I remembered it talked about entry points and exit points of algorithms, so it seemed on-topic :)
  36. # [00:16] <Hixie> BenMillard: :-)
  37. # [00:20] <Hixie> BenMillard: turns out i replied: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Aug/0993.html
  38. # [00:20] <Hixie> looks like he ignored my e-mail
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  58. # [01:13] <yecril71> Maybe English is better for describing flow charts, but HTML is better for blocks of code.
  59. # [01:13] <yecril71> Such a block of code can become a nested list.
  60. # [01:13] <Lachy> gsnedders, ignore my last comments. I now see that it resets i to 0 for every new id and keeps incrementing it until it reaches "foo-#" where # is a unique number, so my previous interpretation was wrong
  61. # [01:14] <yecril71> HTML is not a programming language; if it were one, it would be called HTPL instead.
  62. # [01:14] <yecril71> HTML is a markup language.
  63. # [01:15] <BenMillard> really? who knew! :D
  64. # [01:15] <yecril71> Calogero apparently did not.
  65. # [01:18] <gpy> its a markup language...
  66. # [01:22] <Philip`> yecril71: Technologies are not defined by their names
  67. # [01:23] <Philip`> e.g. Javascript has very little to do with Java - you have to look at more than the name to work out what something really is
  68. # [01:25] <yecril71> And, moreover, Java has very little to do with Java :-)
  69. # [01:25] <yecril71> They are just codenames.
  70. # [01:26] * Philip` unexpectedly discovers that window.location.replace(/pattern/, 'thing') really doesn't do what he intended
  71. # [01:26] <Dashiva> This is where I go "Don't do that"
  72. # [01:26] <yecril71> But the choice of the words in the term HTML is very appropriate.
  73. # [01:27] <Dashiva> You should always use location.href because otherwise you'll get bit in the tail by things like that
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  75. # [01:27] <Philip`> Dashiva: The problem is that I don't know I can use location.href without spending ages (multiple seconds) trying to find documentation that tells me I can use that
  76. # [01:28] <yecril71> location is a DOM object, it does not replace
  77. # [01:28] <Philip`> Dashiva: but now I know, so thanks :-)
  78. # [01:28] <Hixie> the name "HTML" says very little about what HTML is
  79. # [01:29] <Dashiva> Philip`: The problem is that you were taught (or otherwise learned) to use just location in the first place
  80. # [01:29] <yecril71> But it covers the basics.
  81. # [01:31] <yecril71> If the browsers tosses the options, the script cannot consider the options between.
  82. # [01:31] <yecril71> That means the browser really cannot toss the options for presentation only.
  83. # [01:32] <Philip`> Dashiva: I've never been taught HTML or JS - I just learned through copy-and-paste :-)
  84. # [01:33] <Philip`> The web is large enough that somebody has already solved any problem you might have, so the trick is just to find that and copy it
  85. # [01:35] <Dashiva> Bad practice breeds bad practice, yes
  86. # [01:35] <yecril71> Unless you are on an "original work" contract.
  87. # [01:37] <yecril71> In that case the trick is to find that and understand it.
  88. # [01:37] * Philip` attempts to tweak his vastly-incomplete localStorage test framework so it can handle tests that require the user to exit and restart their browser, as automatically as possible, which seems to be quite reasonable as long as there's an unlimited number of domain names so each test can run independently in parallel...
  89. # [01:38] <Philip`> yecril71: No, in that case the trick is to find some code and copy it and replace the variable names and reformat so nobody knows it wasn't yours
  90. # [01:38] <yecril71> This works only if you copy from one source.
  91. # [01:39] <yecril71> Otherwise it gets too inconsistent.
  92. # [01:46] <yecril71> "Select one" as an invalid option looks rather like a generic help baloon.
  93. # [01:47] <yecril71> This is rather obvious and the browser can do it itself, without HTML.
  94. # [01:47] <yecril71> Anything more specific should be in the label, or perhaps the title attribute.
  95. # [01:52] <yecril71> I do not think CSS can do anything about inheriting attributes that belong to HTML.
  96. # [01:53] <yecril71> A mechanism that would allow this to HTML is closer to templates.
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  106. # [03:00] <wilhelm> Is there a Perl version of html5lib yet?
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  108. # [03:02] <Philip`> wilhelm: There's http://suika.fam.cx/www/markup/html/whatpm/readme though I have no idea how well it works or whether it works at all
  109. # [03:03] <wilhelm> Thanks.
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  118. # [04:50] <Lachy> Hixie, you might find this useful http://hymn-project.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19078#19078
  119. # [04:51] <Hixie> cool
  120. # [04:52] <Hixie> my hacked up 7.x install is still working great
  121. # [04:52] <Hixie> i'll wait til something breaks before updating it
  122. # [04:52] <Lachy> which version of itunes are you running?
  123. # [04:53] <Hixie> latest
  124. # [04:54] <Hixie> i get a weird error message about "constant sized" when decrypting, but the files are still drm-free and work, so...
  125. # [04:54] <Lachy> 8.0.2? I have that, but my backed up 8.0.1 keys don't work with songs downloaded with 8.0.2.
  126. # [04:54] <Hixie> oh haven't tried songs, only video
  127. # [04:54] <Hixie> i'm using the 7.x keys
  128. # [04:55] <Lachy> ok. I haven't tried video. Only the free song of the week
  129. # [04:55] <Lachy> I don't have my 7.x keys any more
  130. # [04:55] <Hixie> where does one get that?
  131. # [04:55] <Lachy> from the iTunes store home page. There's an ad for it in the middle
  132. # [04:55] <Hixie> aah yes
  133. # [04:57] * Hixie downloads it and runs dedrmify.sh
  134. # [04:58] <Hixie> decrypting...
  135. # [05:01] <Lachy> did it work?
  136. # [05:03] <Hixie> restarting iTunes...
  137. # [05:04] <Hixie> (sorry my script takes a while because it scans my entire collection for new files)
  138. # [05:04] <Lachy> oh
  139. # [05:04] <Hixie> hm, no error message, but the file is still protected according to itunes
  140. # [05:04] <Hixie> it did say it had decrypted it
  141. # [05:05] <Lachy> try running requiem on the file directly and see if it outputs an error messae
  142. # [05:05] * Hixie tries copying it to an unauthorised machine
  143. # [05:05] <Lachy> or try playing it with VLC or some other player
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  145. # [05:08] <Hixie> it claims it's protected but it doesn't seem to be
  146. # [05:09] <Hixie> this computer isn't authorised
  147. # [05:09] <Hixie> and it's playing fine
  148. # [05:09] <Lachy> maybe it claims it's protected based on the file extension
  149. # [05:10] <Hixie> maybe
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  157. # [08:20] <BenMillard> hsivonen, this survey seems relevant given your work figuring out how ARIA can be integrated with HTML5: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32212/axs-API-impl-Org/
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  170. # [11:26] <mookid> http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2008/nov/29/multiresponse/
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  175. # [12:08] <gsnedders> Anolis 1.0RC3 available now
  176. # [12:08] <gsnedders> (nothing has changed since yesterday)
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  180. # [12:51] <nlogax> hi. looking at html 5 and playing around a bit. i noticed that html5 "valid global date and time strings" are not understood by the js date object. is there a reason for this? i was trying to make nice dates like everyone else, "2 hours ago" etc, using the datetime attribute value. maybe i'm abusing it? :)
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  184. # [13:15] <Hixie> nlogax: datetime on which element?
  185. # [13:17] <nlogax> Hixie: the datetime attribute on <time>
  186. # [13:18] <nlogax> with values like "2006-09-24T05:00-07:00"
  187. # [13:19] <Hixie> you'll be able to get a Date object off it using t.date+t.time, once it's implemented
  188. # [13:19] <Hixie> though maybe we should offer a simple way of getting the exact corresponding Date
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  190. # [13:23] <nlogax> i see. i understand most of it is not implemented yet, but with the focus on backward compatibility i wasn't sure if it was on purpose or not to use a format Date doesn't understand :)
  191. # [13:24] <Hixie> it's the format HTML4 used for datetime="" on <ins> and <del>
  192. # [13:24] <Hixie> (ISO8601)
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  195. # [13:24] <nlogax> oh.. i didn't even know about that
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  197. # [13:25] <Hixie> i wouldn't be surprised if js didn't change to support it at some point, it's a pretty standard format
  198. # [13:25] <Hixie> but anyway, there'll be DOM APIs to give you a Date in due course
  199. # [13:25] <Hixie> they're just not implemented yet
  200. # [13:26] <Hixie> bed time for me now
  201. # [13:26] <Hixie> nn
  202. # [13:26] <nlogax> gn, thanks for the help!
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  208. # [14:54] <erlehmann> any idea how to mark up the author of spoken words ? cite seems to be insufficient.
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  221. # [17:46] * hsivonen wonders about the validator perf impact of r2486 that requires scanning text content for quotes
  222. # [17:46] <hsivonen> are all quote characters on the BMP?
  223. # [17:48] <Dashiva> What if the quoted text itself begins with a quote character?
  224. # [17:48] <hsivonen> Good question.
  225. # [17:49] <hsivonen> Hixie: the spec now effectively prohibits using <q> for outer and punctuation for inner quotes when the inner quote touches the boundary of the outer quote
  226. # [17:50] * gsnedders doesn't get what hsivonen means
  227. # [17:52] <hsivonen> My favorite passage from novel Foo is <q>‘Quote!’, she said.</q>
  228. # [17:52] <gsnedders> ah
  229. # [17:54] * Joins: nessy (n=nessy@124-168-156-5.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  230. # [17:55] * hsivonen wonders if there's a way to find out if a given legacy lock can be opened by the TSA without breaking it
  231. # [17:55] <gsnedders> hsivonen: Try taking it into the US?
  232. # [17:56] <hsivonen> gsnedders: well, I've taken the luggage in questing to the U.S. twice already, but I thought they changed their policies recently
  233. # [17:56] <hsivonen> s/questing/question/
  234. # [17:56] * gsnedders is generally trying to avoid US immigration (by not going to the US)
  235. # [17:57] * hsivonen wouldn't want to buy a new luggage only to get the right logos on the locks
  236. # [17:57] * gsnedders wonders whether to be pedantic about the "a" that hsivonen used
  237. # [17:58] <hsivonen> s/new/new piece of/
  238. # [17:58] <gsnedders> (luggage is uncountable, and therefore takes no article directly)
  239. # [18:00] <hsivonen> the legacy lock is really simple and has a number on it, the purpose of which I infer to be that the number tells the authorities which passepartout to use
  240. # [18:00] <hsivonen> but it doesn't have the new TSA lock logo
  241. # [18:07] * hsivonen assumes that the TSA can pick the simple legacy Samsonite latch locks
  242. # [18:10] * Philip` finds it peculiar that 'easy to open without the key/code' is a marketable feature for locks
  243. # [18:13] * Joins: sayrer (n=chatzill@pool-71-119-77-25.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  244. # [18:14] <hsivonen> Philip`: it depends on what your threat model is.
  245. # [18:15] <hsivonen> Philip`: are you more concerned with damage done by official authorities or unofficial thieves?
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  248. # [19:02] <Lachy> Last time I travelled, the lock I used on my luggage was one of those ones you can pick with a paper clip
  249. # [19:03] <Lachy> the purpose of it was only to hold the zippers together to stop them accidentally opening.
  250. # [19:04] <Lachy> I guess I'm just too trusting of airport staff to not put anything into or take anything out of my luggage
  251. # [19:05] <svl> Given the really high theft rates from luggage by baggage handlers at some airports... probably.
  252. # [19:07] <hsivonen> I think I'm going to trust that they can pick the latch locks without damaging them and then I'll write the combination of the numeric lock next to the lock so they don't need to break it
  253. # [19:07] <hsivonen> I totally don't trust the idea that only good TSA personnel has keys to the TSA locks now
  254. # [19:08] <Philip`> Rather than using a numeric lock and telling everyone what the number is, why not just leave it unlocked?
  255. # [19:08] <gsnedders> hsivonen: You're assuming they won't break the numeric lock anyway
  256. # [19:08] <hsivonen> so one might as well assume that writing the combination of a legacy lock next to the lock is as safe as using a new TSA lock
  257. # [19:08] <hsivonen> Philip`: stuff might fall out accidentally
  258. # [19:09] <Philip`> hsivonen: You could tie it closed with a piece of string, which is much cheaper to replace if they decide it needs to be forcibly opened
  259. # [19:10] <Lachy> does the TSA open all luggage, or do they randomly select bags to check?
  260. # [19:11] <hsivonen> Lachy: I think they non-invasively scan them all and open the ones they doubt based on x-ray
  261. # [19:11] <hsivonen> or perhaps they open some at random, too
  262. # [19:16] <hsivonen> anyway, speaking of going to the U.S.: are there any WHATWG-related events taking place on the week of Dec 8th in the Bay Area?
  263. # [19:25] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt)
  264. # [19:26] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) (Remote closed the connection)
  265. # [19:31] * gsnedders should just totally change his AH computing project
  266. # [19:32] * Quits: mlpug (n=user@a88-115-168-225.elisa-laajakaista.fi) ("Leaving")
  267. # [19:34] * Philip` agrees
  268. # [19:37] <gsnedders> biblio of HTML files! :P
  269. # [19:38] * Philip` isn't quite sure what gsnedders is talking about
  270. # [19:38] <gsnedders> I have a computing project to do for school.
  271. # [19:38] <Lachy> gsnedders, I have a feature request for the spec gen...
  272. # [19:38] <Philip`> I got that bit :-)
  273. # [19:38] <gsnedders> I'm meant to have half the write up and the implementation done by 9th Jan.
  274. # [19:39] <gsnedders> I'm meant to have been working on it since August.
  275. # [19:39] <gsnedders> I haven't. I hate what I've chosen and have no enthusiasm for it :P
  276. # [19:39] <gsnedders> Lachy: What?
  277. # [19:39] <hsivonen> gsnedders: do you keep the bibliography data in a BibTeX .bib file?
  278. # [19:39] <Lachy> if I use the HTML5 <section> and <h1> elements for all headings in the src document, can the spec gen automatically work out the heading levels and replace the h1's with the appropriate backwards compatible numbered headings?
  279. # [19:39] <gsnedders> hsivonen: I don't have any biblio data.
  280. # [19:40] <gsnedders> Lachy: no.
  281. # [19:40] <Lachy> why not?
  282. # [19:40] <gsnedders> Lachy: That's out of scope.
  283. # [19:40] <Lachy> how is that out of scope? It would make the job of restructuring a spec so much easier
  284. # [19:40] <gsnedders> hsivonen: The one grip I have with BibTeX is that virtually all Python things for dealing with it suck
  285. # [19:41] <gsnedders> *gripe
  286. # [19:41] <Philip`> gsnedders: I have a feature request - could you implement some plugin system so people can implement these out-of-scope features as separate modules that can be easily inserted into the appropriate processing step?
  287. # [19:41] <Lachy> don't you have an implementation of the heading algorithm already anyway?
  288. # [19:41] <hsivonen> I used a Java-based parser that a friend wrote for TeXlipse
  289. # [19:41] <gsnedders> Philip`: I have implemented that all ready
  290. # [19:42] <gsnedders> Lachy: Moving section and stuff around is a lot of effort, and I don't think it's relevant
  291. # [19:42] <gsnedders> Lachy: But yes, I do. It's only dependancy is having an lxml tree, AFIAK
  292. # [19:42] <gsnedders> *AFAIK
  293. # [19:42] <Philip`> gsnedders: Ah - then you could implement some module that does the heading stuff Lachy wants, as an independent project, and it wouldn't be out of scope
  294. # [19:42] <gsnedders> Philip`: I don't want to implement it :)
  295. # [19:43] <Philip`> gsnedders: That's a more compelling argument than "That's out of scope" :-)
  296. # [19:43] <Lachy> gsnedders, the spec gen wouldn't need to move anything around. It would just need to replace <h1> elements with appropriately numbered <h2>-<h6>
  297. # [19:43] <gsnedders> Lachy: And leave the section elements et al as is?
  298. # [19:43] <Lachy> yes
  299. # [19:43] <gsnedders> Lachy: And what do I do when I need h7?
  300. # [19:43] <Lachy> just use h6
  301. # [19:43] <gsnedders> Lachy: That breaks stuff.
  302. # [19:44] <Lachy> no it doesn't
  303. # [19:44] <gsnedders> It would change the outline.
  304. # [19:44] <gsnedders> I'd rather throw a fatal error then
  305. # [19:44] <Lachy> because the h6 limitation applies even if I use h1-h6 manually
  306. # [19:45] <gsnedders> Lachy: Then don't use too many sections :)
  307. # [19:45] <Lachy> I'm not intending to use too many sections
  308. # [19:45] <Philip`> If the outline is correct in the source which uses <h1> everywhere, wouldn't it still be correct in the output if it uses <h6> everywhere instead of <h7>?
  309. # [19:45] <Lachy> I have no intention of using more than 6 levels of headings, and if I do, I'll restructure so I don't
  310. # [19:45] <gsnedders> Philip`: Yeah, sure. But it would have the side-effect of screwing stuff up using the HTML 4.01 algo
  311. # [19:45] <hsivonen> gsnedders: the grammar for .bib seems reasonably short: http://texlipse.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/texlipse/net.sourceforge.texlipse/source/bibtex6.sablecc?revision=1.6&view=markup
  312. # [19:46] <hsivonen> gsnedders: you might be able to adapt it for your Python parser generator of choice
  313. # [19:46] <Lachy> gsnedders, I thought the HTML5 heading algorithm was backwards compatible with HTML4, and it wouldn't screw up anything that didn't use <section>
  314. # [19:46] <Philip`> gsnedders: If it's using <section> then it can't be HTML 4.01, so why does it matter what HTML 4.01 tools would do?
  315. # [19:46] <gsnedders> hsivonen: <http://code.google.com/p/bibstuff/source/browse/trunk/bibgrammar.py> is shorter
  316. # [19:47] <gsnedders> Lachy: Yeah, sure. It'll be fine provided the HTML 5 algo is used
  317. # [19:47] <Lachy> gsnedders, one benefit of implementing this would be that it gives a clear demonstration of a use case for the new heading algorithm
  318. # [19:47] <gsnedders> Lachy: The use case exists anyway :P
  319. # [19:47] <gsnedders> hsivonen: (and Python)
  320. # [19:47] <gsnedders> hsivonen: The majority of the rest of the codebase sucks though
  321. # [19:48] <Lachy> gsnedders, I know. And I want to make use of the use case :-)
  322. # [19:48] <gsnedders> Lachy: Ask me when I'm in a good mood after 1.0 has shipped :P
  323. # [19:49] <Lachy> but if anolis supports plugins, do you have any documentation for how I can write a plugin that does this?
  324. # [19:49] <Lachy> when is 1.0 expected to ship?
  325. # [19:49] <gsnedders> Lachy: second paragraph http://hg.gsnedders.com/anolis/raw-file/1.0RC3/README.html#using-anolis
  326. # [19:50] <Lachy> wait, when are you ever in a good mood?
  327. # [19:50] <gsnedders> Lachy: I had originally said when Hixie started using it, but I haven't. Really soon now, though.
  328. # [19:50] <gsnedders> Lachy: Maybe next weekend?
  329. # [19:50] <gsnedders> Lachy: I hope 1.0RC3 to be the final RC, and I just want to see if anyone bitches about bugs in that before tagging 1.0
  330. # [19:52] <Lachy> ok
  331. # [19:52] <Lachy> how do I update anolis? Do i just download the new one and run python setup.py install?
  332. # [19:53] <gsnedders> yeah
  333. # [19:53] <Lachy> gsnedders, from that doc: foo.foo(ElementTree, **kwargs) - what is the **kwargs parameter?
  334. # [19:53] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt)
  335. # [19:55] <gsnedders> Lachy: keyword arguments, so a dictionary of unknown arguments, and if any keyword arg matches on what it's calling, that
  336. # [19:55] <gsnedders> e.g., def foo(bar=False)
  337. # [19:55] <gsnedders> kwargs = {"bar": True}
  338. # [19:55] <gsnedders> foo(**kwargs)
  339. # [19:55] <gsnedders> that's the same as foo(bar=True)
  340. # [19:56] <Lachy> so if I understand correctly, if I write my process "fixheadings" and run with --enable fixheadings, then anolis will call fixheadings.fixheadings(ElementTree, **kwargs). Then my process just needs to make changes to the ElementTree and return?
  341. # [19:56] <gsnedders> It doesn't need to return anything
  342. # [19:57] <Lachy> ok
  343. # [19:57] <gsnedders> (this other modules function is completely untested, so it might be broken)
  344. # [19:58] <Lachy> gsnedders, http://anolis.gsnedders.com/#obtaining-a-copy is still linking to RC1
  345. # [19:58] <gsnedders> ah, I never updated that
  346. # [19:58] * gsnedders yawns
  347. # [19:59] <gsnedders> fixed
  348. # [20:00] <gsnedders> you probably want to from anolislib.processes import outliner
  349. # [20:00] <Lachy> ok
  350. # [20:00] <gsnedders> (a section is just a list FYI)
  351. # [20:00] <gsnedders> (possibly with section.header)
  352. # [20:00] <Lachy> how do I deploy the script? Does it just look for it in the current working directory, or do I need to put it somewhere special?
  353. # [20:01] <gsnedders> Lachy: Somewhere Python will try and import
  354. # [20:01] <Lachy> ok. Does that include the current working directory?
  355. # [20:01] <gsnedders> It might
  356. # [20:01] * gsnedders dunnos
  357. # [20:02] <Lachy> alright. I'll experiment with it
  358. # [20:12] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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  372. # [20:47] <Lachy> I think it's ironic how Calogero wrote in the cite/blockquote thread: "I hope now that's more clear" immediately after one of the most confusing, grammatically incorrect and incomprehensible sentences I've ever tried to read.
  373. # [20:52] <hsivonen> Hixie: is it intentional that HTML5 doesn't associate <legend> with the form pointer even though Gecko does?
  374. # [20:55] <hsivonen> hmm. the form association is annoying. now I need to split separate magic numbers for fieldset and object
  375. # [21:03] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@cpe-66-65-132-93.nyc.res.rr.com)
  376. # [21:18] <hsivonen> also had to introduce a OUTPUT_OR_LABEL magic
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  388. # [23:08] * annevk3 never locks his luggage
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  392. # [23:29] <Lachy> gsnedders, yt?
  393. # [23:33] <Lachy> gsnedders, I'm getting an error when I try to use anolis --enable to run a plugin
  394. # [23:33] <Lachy> $ anolis --enable=AdjustHeadings Overview.src.html test.html
  395. # [23:33] <Lachy> Traceback (most recent call last):
  396. # [23:33] <Lachy> File "/usr/local/bin/anolis", line 218, in <module>
  397. # [23:33] <Lachy> main()
  398. # [23:33] <Lachy> File "/usr/local/bin/anolis", line 48, in main
  399. # [23:33] <Lachy> tree = generator.fromFile(input, **kwargs)
  400. # [23:33] <Lachy> File "/Library/Python/2.5/site-packages/anolislib/generator.py", line 84, in fromFile
  401. # [23:33] <Lachy> process(tree, processes, **kwargs)
  402. # [23:33] <Lachy> File "/Library/Python/2.5/site-packages/anolislib/generator.py", line 36, in process
  403. # [23:33] <Lachy> process)
  404. # [23:33] <Lachy> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute '--enable'
  405. # [23:35] <BenMillard> Lachy, e-mail might be the best way to work through that so multi-line samples remain intact?
  406. # [23:35] <BenMillard> Lachy, also my impression from the earlier logs is gsnedders had higher priorities, so an e-mail would let him get to it at a time of his convenience.
  407. # [23:36] <Lachy> gsnedders, I'm aware of gsnedders priorities
  408. # [23:37] <Lachy> I also figured there may be someone else in here familiar with python who might understand what's causing the error
  409. # [23:37] <Lachy> s/gsnedders,/BenMillard,/
  410. # [23:38] <BenMillard> Philip` & annevk3, any ideas about the error Lachy is seeing?
  411. # [23:38] * Joins: heycam (n=cam@clm-laptop.infotech.monash.edu.au)
  412. # [23:38] <hsivonen> BenMillard: I didn't fill out the accessibility API survey, at least not yet, because I figured that I should defer to aaronlev on API things
  413. # [23:39] <BenMillard> hsivonen, I thought it was about individuals' participation rather than organisations'?
  414. # [23:40] <hsivonen> BenMillard: it had a question on patent policy, which looks like an organizational thing
  415. # [23:44] <BenMillard> hsivonen, ah
  416. # [23:44] <Lachy> hsivonen, the way the patent policy question is worded, it looks like it's an individual question
  417. # [23:44] <BenMillard> since Mozilla won't renew my funding, I answered it as an individual
  418. # [23:51] <hsivonen> I'm sorry to hear your work is no longer funded
  419. # [23:53] <BenMillard> hsivonen, apparently the "overlap is too thin" between what I was doing and the scheme my funding was granted under, but that my work was useful and I could ask other people in Mozilla for funding (but no clue was given about whom)
  420. # [23:53] <BenMillard> so once the comparison document is done, I'll be knocking on doors :)
  421. # [23:58] * Philip` tries to find a font to use in Keynote that isn't Gill Sans (because that's a blatant "look at me I'm a Mac user" sign) and isn't really boring (Arial, Helvetica, etc), and ends up finding only Trebuchet MS
  422. # [23:59] <heycam> Philip`, i like Myriad (if you have it) as a nice sans serif font
  423. # [23:59] <Philip`> heycam: Hmm, that doesn't seem to be installed here
  424. # [23:59] <heycam> i don't know what the big deal with gill sans is, i think it looks a bit ugly, especially in the heavier weights
  425. # Session Close: Mon Dec 01 00:00:00 2008

The end :)