/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-12-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Dec 03 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  11. # [01:40] <BenMillard> krijn, I've refined and added to my IRC log ideas: http://projectcerbera.com/!dev/irc-logs/
  12. # [01:41] <BenMillard> krijn, I've only tested those demos in Firefox 2, but I can do cross-browser testing if you like
  13. # [01:43] <BenMillard> krijn, the "day" demo is not finished...I plan to make status messages more consistent with normal message and identify them using class to avoid lots of string checking in the JS
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  18. # [02:06] <billyjackass> hsivonen: thanks for pointer regarding date/time microsyntaxes
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  34. # [03:57] <Hixie> hsivonen: if you have questions re mutation events that you can't determine an answer to, let me know and i'll give you an answer for now -- but in general i'm blocked on mutation events and svg getting their specs fixed to be more clearly defined
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  36. # [04:01] <ajnewbold> this html5, it's lucious
  37. # [04:11] <Hixie> i am not familiar with that word
  38. # [04:11] <Hixie> unless you're referring to the stargate character
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  40. # [04:14] <ajnewbold> hmm, well, it helps if you spell it correctly
  41. # [04:14] <billyjackass> ludicrous?
  42. # [04:14] <ajnewbold> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/luscious
  43. # [04:15] <Hixie> aah, luscious
  44. # [04:15] <Hixie> glad you think so :-)
  45. # [04:16] <ajnewbold> :)
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  56. # [04:58] <ajnewbold> erm, I don't understand this error. http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fneatnik.net%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&ss=1&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.606#line-6
  57. # [04:58] <ajnewbold> I'm not providing any attributes on <body>, so either I'm overlooking something simple or the validator's having a bad day
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  100. # [09:25] * Hixie sets up his network so that the neighbour's machine that keeps trying to do bittorrents has all HTTP traffic redirected to a simple page that tells the guy that his torrenting is bottlenecking the connection
  101. # [09:26] <Hixie> (i am also running a program that kills any non-port-80 tcp/ip traffic from that host)
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  104. # [09:41] <jwalden> why not just set up wpa?
  105. # [09:47] <Hixie> i want an open network
  106. # [09:47] <Hixie> i use open networks all over the place
  107. # [09:47] <Hixie> i feel i should give back
  108. # [09:47] <Hixie> wpa also makes it a pain to connect the devices to the network (like the wii, the ipod, the ps3) and makes it harder for guests to connect
  109. # [09:48] <jwalden> suit yourself :-)
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  120. # [10:32] <zcorpan> ajnewbold: http://html5.validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fneatnik.net%2F gives no errors so it has to be something they screwed up in the integration
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  147. # [12:58] <hsivonen> http://hsivonen.iki.fi/html5-gecko-build/
  148. # [13:05] <Lachy> hsivonen, cool. I'll try it out later
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  151. # [13:20] <jgraham> hsivonen: Cool
  152. # [13:20] * jgraham wishes he had a convenient way to try it out
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  168. # [14:19] <rubys> hsivonen: ping?
  169. # [14:26] <annevk3> congrats hsivonen!
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  176. # [15:02] <tthorsen> looks like livedom.validator.nu does not like the following markup: <!DOCTYPE html><html><head></br>
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  196. # [16:21] <zcorpan> http://parsetree.validator.nu/?parser=html5&content=%3C%21DOCTYPE+html%3E%3Chtml%3E%3Chead%3E%3C%2Fbr%3E&submit=Print+Tree
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  199. # [16:23] <zcorpan> hsivonen: ^ doesn't give expected result
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  207. # [16:48] <rubys> annevk3: http://intertwingly.net/blog/2008/12/03/HTML5-in-Gecko?#c1228319123
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  209. # [16:50] <annevk3> rubys, since we do not implement SVG or MathML inside text/html there is no such thing as a "foreign element" for Opera
  210. # [16:51] <annevk3> rubys, just like in <div><foo><bar/></foo></div> <bar/> is not actually self-closed per HTML5
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  213. # [16:57] <annevk3> rubys, also, yeah, WebKit does it incorrectly afaict
  214. # [16:58] <zcorpan> annevk3: </foo> should close the bar, though, shouldn't it?
  215. # [16:59] <annevk3> yeah
  216. # [16:59] <annevk3> not the best example
  217. # [16:59] <zcorpan> annevk3: how is it not a good example? sam has <svg><circle></svg>
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  219. # [17:00] <zcorpan> we put everything after </svg> in the circle element
  220. # [17:00] <annevk3> oh really?
  221. # [17:00] <zcorpan> afaict
  222. # [17:00] <annevk3> mea culpa
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  224. # [17:06] <rubys> it is a pity that HTML5 doesn't treat non-recognized HTML elements as foreign.
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  227. # [17:08] <rubys> actually, isn't the spec ambiguous? <p> is an allowed HTML element. <math> is an element from the MathML namespace. What does this make <svg>?
  228. # [17:08] <annevk3> it's a pity we're stuck with HTML :)
  229. # [17:08] <annevk3> <svg> is currently not allowed
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  234. # [17:09] <rubys> ok, so it is not normal, and not foreign, and not RCDATA, and not CDATA, and not Void. Is it a sixth kind of element?
  235. # [17:10] <zcorpan> rubys: i guess the secion you're reading only deals with elements that are allowed in html5
  236. # [17:10] <annevk3> the syntax and language are intertwined
  237. # [17:10] <zcorpan> section
  238. # [17:11] <rubys> so, what does the spec say about how to handle <foo/>?
  239. # [17:11] <zcorpan> rubys: in the parsing section it would go under "Any other start-tag token" or what it says
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  259. # [17:57] <zcorpan> aha... PFWG's approach to get past CR is to remove 'must's from the spec
  260. # [17:57] <zcorpan> that's interesting
  261. # [17:57] <zcorpan> (actually a whole conformance class)
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  263. # [18:02] <jgraham> I didn't think they had any MUSTs to begin with...
  264. # [18:03] <zcorpan> they had some
  265. # [18:06] <jgraham> Oh well
  266. # [18:08] <jgraham> I guess eventually they will have none at all any any behaviour will be considered both conforming and therefore accesible
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  294. # [20:39] <gsnedders> ECMA has no semantic index of standards
  295. # [20:40] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  296. # [20:43] <gsnedders> Nor does the ISO
  297. # [20:44] <jcranmer> IETF?
  298. # [20:44] <jcranmer> ANSI?
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  300. # [20:46] <gsnedders> jcranmer: IETF does of RFCs, dunno about other docs
  301. # [20:46] <gsnedders> s/docs/series/
  302. # [20:46] <gsnedders> And ANSI I don't really care about :)
  303. # [20:46] <jcranmer> IANA?
  304. # [20:46] <jcranmer> ICANN?
  305. # [20:47] <gsnedders> how often do people want to reference them? :)
  306. # [20:47] <jcranmer> IANA protocol registries are actually fairly useful
  307. # [20:47] * weinig_ is now known as weinig
  308. # [20:47] <jcranmer> for example, MIME content types
  309. # [20:47] <jcranmer> official extensions for protocols with extensioning mechanisms
  310. # [20:47] <jcranmer> default TCP ports
  311. # [20:48] <gsnedders> To my knowledge not really
  312. # [20:49] <gsnedders> (have an index)
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  314. # [20:49] <jcranmer> IANA has a master list, alphabetacized by protocol name that I usually just Ctrl-F
  315. # [20:49] <gsnedders> jcranmer: That isn't very semantic though
  316. # [20:49] <gsnedders> jcranmer: And can't be easily scrapped
  317. # [20:50] <gsnedders> (well, it can be easily scrapped, but not in a generic way)
  318. # [20:50] <jcranmer> I know it has a master list, I was wondering if it had a semantic one
  319. # [20:50] <gsnedders> It doesn't
  320. # [20:50] <jcranmer> :-(
  321. # [20:50] <gsnedders> RFCs and W3C TRs are all that do of major tech. publications as far as I can see
  322. # [20:51] <jcranmer> you know what sucks... just how much one has to search to get around documentation
  323. # [20:51] <jcranmer> trying to navigate to the DOM or CSS specs from www.w3.org is a bit frustrating
  324. # [20:51] <gsnedders> Just guess that it is w3.org/TR/CSS/ :P
  325. # [20:52] <jcranmer> I normally stick with CSS21
  326. # [20:52] <gsnedders> I just guess shortname
  327. # [20:52] <gsnedders> *the shortname
  328. # [20:52] <jcranmer> some of the DOM specs are annoying
  329. # [20:52] <gsnedders> Yeah, they are.
  330. # [20:52] <jcranmer> even worse is trying to get to the Windows SDK reference from msdn.microsoft.com
  331. # [20:53] <jcranmer> you pretty much have to either search or be psychic
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  364. # [22:53] <gsnedders> Philip`: Where should we meet up on Monday?
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  366. # [23:05] * Joins: yecril71 (n=giecrilj@piekna-gts.2a.pl)
  367. # [23:07] <yecril71> A valid URL with a valid fragment identifier constitutes a broken link only if the resource referenced cannot be found.
  368. # [23:08] <yecril71> Referring to a fragment identifier that is not defined in the resource does not make it broken.
  369. # [23:09] <yecril71> href="#foo bar" does not match id="foo%20bar" but you can have it vice versa.
  370. # [23:10] <yecril71> That is because an identifier is not an URL and it is not subject to decoding.
  371. # [23:12] <yecril71> An identifier containing spaces makes the document invalid, and the document
  372. # [23:12] <yecril71> validator should behave accordingly.
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  374. # [23:13] <yecril71> A disconnected subtree need not be a whole document.
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  376. # [23:14] <yecril71> I do not believe DOM Core should ever reinvent what a subtree is.
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  378. # [23:17] <yecril71> Since the identifier is guaranteed to be the same in the document and in a disconnected subtree, there is really no room for any ambiguity.
  379. # [23:19] <yecril71> The DOM mechanisms and the CSS mechanisms, if the latter are ever defined for scripting, have different purposes.
  380. # [23:19] <yecril71> I do not think a full consistency is required here; otherwise one of them seems to be redundant.
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  390. # [23:40] <Philip`> gsnedders: I don't have any especially good ideas on novel locations
  391. # [23:55] <gsnedders> Philip`: Should we say the same as before, then?
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  393. # Session Close: Thu Dec 04 00:00:00 2008

The end :)