/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-12-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Dec 19 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <Philip`> (I think I'll stick to the tool that lets me download the DRM-free MPEG4 versions that are intended for iPhone users)
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  5. # [00:11] <karlcow> Philip`: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/help/faq/download_and_install_realplayer.shtml BBC provides a special real player. I think they had to do it because of their contract
  6. # [00:12] <Philip`> karlcow: That's only for radio, not TV
  7. # [00:12] <karlcow> though I don't know if it's still working with bbc programs. I have not used it for a very long time.
  8. # [00:12] <karlcow> Philip`: ah thanks :)
  9. # [00:13] <Philip`> The iPlayer provides nice simple DRM-free MP3 versions of radio programmes to iPhone users, so the same iPhone-masquerading tool can download them too :-)
  10. # [00:13] <Philip`> (or you can just use the streaming Flash player)
  11. # [00:13] * Philip` has had very limited success with RealPlayer on Linux
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  49. # [01:50] <MikeSmith> Philip`: you still awake?
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  54. # [01:55] <Philip`> MikeSmith: Yes
  55. # [01:56] <MikeSmith> Philip`: I'm getting an error from spec splitter, trying to figure out to fix it
  56. # [01:56] <MikeSmith> if e.getnext().tag == 'h2' and 'no-toc' not in (e.getnext().get('class') or '').split(' '):
  57. # [01:56] <MikeSmith> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'tag'
  58. # [01:56] <MikeSmith> I have lxml 2.something installed
  59. # [01:57] <MikeSmith> 2.1.3
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  67. # [02:03] <Philip`> MikeSmith: What input are you using?
  68. # [02:03] <MikeSmith> my document-conformance draft
  69. # [02:04] <Philip`> Does it work if you run it with http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/source ?
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  74. # [02:05] <MikeSmith> Philip`: trying now
  75. # [02:06] <MikeSmith> no, I get:
  76. # [02:06] <MikeSmith> del short_header[3:]
  77. # [02:06] <MikeSmith> TypeError: 'NoneType' object does not support item deletion
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  79. # [02:07] <MikeSmith> hmm, though it does work if I run it on the "index" file (instead of the "source" file)
  80. # [02:07] <Philip`> MikeSmith: Oops
  81. # [02:07] <Philip`> I should have said index
  82. # [02:07] <MikeSmith> ?
  83. # [02:08] <MikeSmith> yeah, index file works
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  85. # [02:09] <Philip`> If it doesn't work on your document, I guess your document is insufficiently similar to HTML5
  86. # [02:09] <Philip`> but there's no kind of documentation or anything to describe what structure is expected
  87. # [02:10] <Philip`> For the original error you mentioned, it looks like that would only fail if it couldn't find an <h2> child of <body> that didn't have class=no-toc
  88. # [02:15] <MikeSmith> Philip`: OK
  89. # [02:15] <MikeSmith> Philip`: <h2> child of <body>, or <h2> descendant of <body>?
  90. # [02:16] <MikeSmith> oh
  91. # [02:16] <Philip`> MikeSmith: Child
  92. # [02:16] <MikeSmith> yeah, I see
  93. # [02:17] <MikeSmith> OK, I can see I'll need to mess around with it a bit to see if I can make it work with my doc
  94. # [02:18] <Philip`> It's not at all designed as a general purpose tool
  95. # [02:18] <Philip`> so it'll probably need various tweaks
  96. # [02:19] <MikeSmith> yep, I can see now from looking at the code.. But I don't think it'll be too much work to make the tweaks I need
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  98. # [02:32] <Hixie> anyone seen aaronl recently?
  99. # [02:33] <Hixie> or know how to contact him?
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  113. # [03:13] <MikeSmith> Hixie: Aaron Leventhal?
  114. # [03:14] <Hixie> yes
  115. # [03:14] <MikeSmith> you got his e-mail address?
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  179. # [08:35] <zcorpan_> "While [noembed] can be positioned anywhere on the page, it is a good idea to include it as a child element of embed so that it is clear to assistive technologies that a text alternative is associated with the embed element it describes." -- http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/H46.html
  180. # [08:37] <zcorpan_> >Editorial Note: Is it true that noembed can go either beside or inside embed? Is there a preference?
  181. # [08:37] <zcorpan_> <embed> is an EMPTY element type, just like <img>. It can't have any contents. -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/2005Nov/0009.html
  182. # [08:37] <heycam> zcorpan_, and the point is the <embed> is an empty element, so can't have children?
  183. # [08:37] <zcorpan_> the point is they ignored my comment
  184. # [08:37] <heycam> :(
  185. # [08:37] <heycam> is that the final version of that document?
  186. # [08:38] <zcorpan_> yes, it's a REC now
  187. # [08:38] <heycam> that one you linked to is a NOTE though, so perhaps that can be updated easily
  188. # [08:39] <zcorpan_> maybe
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  202. # [10:07] <othermaciej> this is a nice article: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/5_exciting_things_in_html_5.php
  203. # [10:07] <othermaciej> (which probably most here have seen already)
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  212. # [10:51] <jgraham> gsnedders: pms.n should have the laetst anolis now
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  220. # [11:45] <jgraham> Totally the wrong pklace to ask but does anyone have any ideas why I can't run Firefox 2 under Ubuntu 8.10 (it dies when trying to show the main window with an unhelpful X11 error; the profilemanager window appears fine)
  221. # [11:56] <Lachy> jgraham, is it possible the profile its using is corrupt in some way? have you tried creating a new profile and running it?
  222. # [11:57] <Lachy> usually, whenever I get Firefox crashing regularly, it's because there's something wrong with the profile
  223. # [12:03] <Philip`> My router's configuration interface says: <tr> <script language="javascript">document.write('<td onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='+mouseover+'" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='+mouseout+'" onclick=parent.location.href="/status.stm">');</script> <a class="section" href="sindex.stm" target="main1"><p class=p1>Security</p></a> </td> </tr>
  224. # [12:03] <Philip`> which is fun
  225. # [12:08] <Philip`> Also it doesn't work in Opera - something to do with changing two frames' location simultaneously when you click causes it to not load sindex.stm (and therefore it's impossible to access the Security section)
  226. # [12:11] <Lachy> Philip`, please file a bug about that
  227. # [12:12] * Philip` will have to try to produce a reproducible test case, and is too lazy to do that right now
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  229. # [12:15] <Lachy> Philip`, just make your router config page publicly accessible and I could do that from here :-)
  230. # [12:16] <Philip`> Lachy: I would be happy to do that, but I can't get to the configuration page that lets me make it publicly accessible :-p
  231. # [12:16] * Philip` will look at it later today anyway
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  244. # [13:37] <jgraham> Lachy: Yes, I tried that
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  252. # [14:10] <Philip`> Hmm, I can't work out how to reproduce the router's behaviour in Firefox
  253. # [14:12] <Lachy> is that because Firefox doesn't suffer from the same bug as Opera, or is it returning different pages to it or something?
  254. # [14:14] <jgraham> Lachy: Did you have an archive of the whole acid 3 test somewhere?
  255. # [14:14] <Lachy> jgraham, yeah, on Opera's t server
  256. # [14:14] <Lachy> I think that one might be a little out of date though.
  257. # [14:15] <Philip`> Lachy: I mean I'm trying to make a simplified test case based on the HTML that the router serves (to Firefox, but I don't think it varies between UAs), but it doesn't have the same behaviour in Firefox that the real router's HTML has
  258. # [14:16] <Lachy> jgraham, see t/core/standards/acid3/
  259. # [14:16] <jgraham> Lachy: Thanks
  260. # [14:17] <Lachy> jgraham, I'll update it now to the latest version. Just give me a few minutes
  261. # [14:22] <Lachy> jgraham, the test has been updated
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  266. # [14:36] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3Cscript%3E%0Afor%20(var%20i%20%3D%201%3B%20i%20%3C%200xFFFF%3B%20%2B%2Bi)%0Atry%20%7B%0A%20eval(%22var%22%20%2B%20String.fromCharCode(i)%20%2B%20%22x%22%20%2B%20i%20%2B%20%22%3D%5C%22%5C%22%3Bw(x%22%20%2B%20i%20%2B%20%22%2B%22%20%2B%20i%20%2B%20%22)%22)%0A%7D%20catch(e)%20%7B%0A%7D%0A%3C%2Fscript%3E (may take long time to run)
  267. # [14:39] <wilhelm_> http://people.opera.com/wilhelmja/nested-form.html <- what is correct behaviour here? Firefox submits with both buttons. Opera does not.
  268. # [14:41] <olliej> wilhelm_: webkit appears to only submit on the first
  269. # [14:41] <Lachy> wilhelm_, Firefox 3 doesn't submit with the second button
  270. # [14:41] <Lachy> the reason is because of the way nested forms are parsed
  271. # [14:41] <Lachy> if you look at the DOM, you'll see that the second button isn't within the form
  272. # [14:43] <Lachy> wilhelm_, http://james.html5.org/cgi-bin/parsetree/parsetree.py?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.opera.com%2Fwilhelmja%2Fnested-form.html
  273. # [14:44] <wilhelm_> Indeed. Firefox did submit with both buttons a few changes ago, though. Looks like I reduced the test too much. (c:
  274. # [14:44] * wilhelm_ looks at it again.
  275. # [14:48] <jgraham> Hmm the HTML5 spec still defines the form elment pointer but doesn't seem to use it anywhere
  276. # [14:50] <wilhelm_> There. Reload and try again now. Firefox submits on button 2, Opera does not.
  277. # [14:50] <wilhelm_> (I removed a <div> too much :)
  278. # [14:52] <olliej> wilhelm_: webkit submits on both
  279. # [14:53] <jgraham> I guess IE submits on both?
  280. # [14:55] <Lachy> jgraham, yes, IE and Opera give the same results as each other, and Firefox and Webkit give the opposite result
  281. # [14:55] <wilhelm_> IE6 gives the same result as Opera.
  282. # [14:56] <Lachy> if the html5lib parse tree viewer is giving the correct result, then Opera matches HTML5.
  283. # [14:57] <jgraham> Lachy: I was more concerned that HTML5 might be wrong :)
  284. # [14:57] <Lachy> IE8's DOM includes the second submit button within the form, but still doesn't let it submit it
  285. # [14:57] <jgraham> If HTML5 matches IE then it seems OK
  286. # [14:58] <Lachy> IE's behaviour is buggy, so HTML5 shouldn't match it
  287. # [14:58] <jgraham> Lachy: Not IE8, IE6 (in this case)
  288. # [14:58] <Lachy> jgraham, oh, ok. I don't have IE6 to test with, so I don't know what it's result is
  289. # [14:59] <wilhelm_> Lachy: IE6 and IE7 do not submit #2.
  290. # [15:01] <Lachy> ok, that matches the IE8 result, and Opera, so that's good enough
  291. # [15:02] <wilhelm_> Yep. Answers my question. I was wondering if we were doing something wrong here. (c:
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  293. # [15:12] <zcorpan> http://simon.html5.org/dump/ecmascript-whitespace.txt
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  305. # [16:44] <zcorpan> hmm. a multiline comment in ecmascript is considered a linebreak for the purposes of semicolon insertion
  306. # [16:44] <zcorpan> although ie and webkit don't get that right
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  324. # [17:40] <Philip`> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/5_exciting_things_in_html_5.php#comment-120375 - "It's possible to write in HTML5 now if you ignore IE's inabilty to render XML properly. I've wrote 3 sites in it now, http://ortatherox.com is a pretty good example."
  325. # [17:40] <Philip`> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> ... ... ... <section> <h1>Current projects:</h1><br/><br/> <projectdump> <article ...> <info ...> ... </info> <img .../> </article> <article ...> ...
  326. # [17:40] <Philip`> Hmm, that doesn't look quite right to me
  327. # [17:48] <jgraham> Philip`: About half the comments on that article appear to be utterly clueless
  328. # [17:50] <Philip`> jgraham: Only half? That's pretty good :-)
  329. # [17:58] <jgraham> Philip`: I don't think I said otherwise :)
  330. # [18:08] <erlehmann> well, firefox doesn't even display the <footer> element on my blog
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  333. # [18:09] <erlehmann> comments ? the article is failing itself - code as graphics, yay !
  334. # [18:10] <erlehmann> because marking it up is SCIENCE
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  336. # [18:12] <erlehmann> the table and pie chart relation is fun, though ;)
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  338. # [18:32] <gsnedders> Hixie: yt?
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  380. # [20:27] <Hixie> jgraham: the form element pointer is used
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  393. # [21:56] * Quits: sverrej (n=sverrej@cm-84.208.153.202.getinternet.no) (No route to host)
  394. # [22:08] * Joins: jacobolus_ (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-189-240.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  395. # [22:11] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.203.15.158)
  396. # [22:16] * Quits: maikmerten (n=maikmert@Laab0.l.pppool.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  397. # [22:16] * weinig is now known as weinig|fooding
  398. # [22:23] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@pool-71-104-189-240.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  399. # [22:24] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  400. # [22:29] * Quits: dolske (n=dolske@firefox/developer/dolske)
  401. # [22:59] <Hixie> jgraham: yt?
  402. # [23:00] <Hixie> nm
  403. # [23:02] * Joins: dolske (n=dolske@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  404. # [23:44] * Joins: sicking (n=chatzill@corp-242.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  405. # [23:44] * Quits: famicom (i=famicom@5ED2FF2D.cable.ziggo.nl) ("Leaving")
  406. # [23:56] * Quits: Maurice (n=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl) ("Disconnected...")
  407. # Session Close: Sat Dec 20 00:00:00 2008

The end :)