/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-12-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Dec 24 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:01] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  4. # [00:04] <annevk> twitter works
  5. # [00:17] <annevk> Hixie, "WHATWG" could be it once we take over the appropriate specs
  6. # [00:17] * annevk blinks
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  10. # [00:43] <Hixie> heh
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  13. # [00:51] * Philip` becomes unhappy with Perl's JSON module turning "10.00" into 10.00 and therefore losing information
  14. # [00:52] * Philip` also doesn't like how the current version of the module is totally different to the earlier version that he has installed
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  22. # [02:10] * jgraham connects just to mention that he to plans to work on html parsing over Christmas but doesn't think that has much bearning on whether it is considered sad
  23. # [02:12] <jgraham> Also BenMillard should consider redesigning the WHATWG blog because it is currently really ugly
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  49. # [04:41] <BenMillard> jgraham, I'm not a designer but I could try applying the IRC log demos look-and-feel to it :)
  50. # [04:41] <BenMillard> or rather, create a demo of that
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  62. # [06:21] <BenMillard> jgraham, how about this? http://projectcerbera.com/!dev/whatwg-blog/
  63. # [06:23] <BenMillard> "entry" should have the sidebar same as any other page, imho
  64. # [06:24] <BenMillard> I removed a <style> block from the markup which was adding a background image, other than that the markup remains the same
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  84. # [07:55] <annevk> BenMillard, if you read the archives (and I think you do), blog design looks great!
  85. # [07:55] <annevk> definitely a lot better than having the default
  86. # [08:04] <annevk> Hixie, setAttribute behaves differently in HTML and XML, dataset is defined in terms of setAttribute and does not do anything with the string beforehand (e.g. lowercasing)
  87. # [08:04] <Hixie> dataset isn't defined in terms of setAttribute.
  88. # [08:04] <Hixie> (well, except for the exception stuff)
  89. # [08:04] <Hixie> (but that's unrelated to what we're talking about here)
  90. # [08:05] <annevk> ah, that's confusing
  91. # [08:07] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@c-69-181-81-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  92. # [08:07] <Hixie> it is?
  93. # [08:07] <Hixie> why is it conusing
  94. # [08:07] <Hixie> what is confusing
  95. # [08:07] <Hixie> i'm confused.
  96. # [08:08] <annevk> the "If setAttribute() would have raised an exception when setting an attribute with the name name, then this must raise the same exception." made me think the algorithm was the same as for setAttribute...
  97. # [08:09] <Hixie> it would have said so if it was
  98. # [08:09] <Hixie> :-)
  99. # [08:09] <annevk> true
  100. # [08:10] <annevk> hopefully DOM core defines an abstract way of setting an attribute that we could use << zcorpan
  101. # [08:10] <annevk> that would also avoid potential confusion if setAttribute was prototyped or something like that
  102. # [08:11] <Hixie> that would be nice
  103. # [08:17] <Hixie> i worked out why that guy used such long paragraphs
  104. # [08:17] <Hixie> he in fact broke his paragraphs as much as he could
  105. # [08:17] <Hixie> it's just that some of his sentences were very long
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  108. # [08:26] <olliej> Hixie: hmmm
  109. # [08:26] <olliej> Hixie: i'm not sure if hedral's technique counts as smart or stupid
  110. # [08:27] <Hixie> well it works
  111. # [08:27] <Hixie> stupid would be just bashing his head against the frame
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  113. # [08:27] <Hixie> i.e. something that doesn't work
  114. # [08:27] <Hixie> it may not be optimal, though...
  115. # [08:27] <olliej> hehehe
  116. # [08:30] <Hixie> hey where in the spec does it say that <script> elements inserted by innerHTML don't execute?
  117. # [08:30] <Hixie> did i accidentally drop that at some point?
  118. # [08:31] <Hixie> oh nm found it
  119. # [08:34] <olliej> Hixie: hehe
  120. # [08:48] <annevk> olliej, is that thing from yesterday still important?
  121. # [08:49] <olliej> annevk: i was wondering what your/opera's opinion of drawImage(<video>,...) is?
  122. # [08:49] <olliej> on canvasrenderingcontext
  123. # [08:54] <olliej> annevk: the ffx nightlies already support it, and i have a prototype implementation for webkit
  124. # [08:56] <annevk> I think we're planning on doing it too
  125. # [08:57] <annevk> Maybe not when we first publicly release our <video> impl though
  126. # [08:58] <olliej> you haven't yet?
  127. # [08:59] * olliej is surprised
  128. # [08:59] <olliej> does that mean safari is still the only release browser with <video> support?
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  130. # [09:10] <annevk> olliej, I think so
  131. # [09:10] <annevk> well, I'm pretty sure, unless Firefox 3.1 is final now...
  132. # [09:11] <olliej> annevk: looks like 3.1 is the release for <video> -- i guess that means that opera needs an additional 2.1 revisions ;)
  133. # [09:13] * olliej hides from the opera engineer who has to deal with UA shenanigans
  134. # [09:13] <annevk> heh
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  136. # [09:19] <MikeSmith> annevk: any clues if the Opera 10 "Auto Update" feature actually works? Particularly "Download All Snapshots"? .. It doesn't seem to be working for me.
  137. # [09:19] <MikeSmith> or maybe I'm doing soemthing wrong
  138. # [09:21] <Hixie> opera 10 actually finally has an autoupdate?
  139. # [09:22] <annevk> MikeSmith, I don't, sorry
  140. # [09:22] <annevk> Hixie, that's the idea
  141. # [09:22] <Hixie> holy crap
  142. # [09:22] <Hixie> took y'all long enough :-P
  143. # [09:22] <MikeSmith> Hixie: in theory..
  144. # [09:22] <MikeSmith> in practice, it ain't actually working for me at least
  145. # [09:22] <Hixie> man, i might actually upgrade opera soon then
  146. # [09:23] <Hixie> is there a "beta channel" like for other browsers?
  147. # [09:23] <Hixie> or a dev channel or something?
  148. # [09:25] <MikeSmith> Hixie: you mean IRC?
  149. # [09:25] <annevk> haha: http://websocket.org/
  150. # [09:25] <Hixie> no i mean like with firefox and chrome you can have it autoupdate along different channels
  151. # [09:25] <Hixie> depending on how bleeding edge you want to be
  152. # [09:25] <annevk> Hixie, yeah, there's a setting
  153. # [09:25] <Hixie> cool
  154. # [09:26] * MikeSmith sees that http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2008/12/19/the-christmas-edition has been updated
  155. # [09:26] <MikeSmith> "Update 2008-12-23: The builds haves not been added to the autoupdate server yet due to people going on vacation. Sorry for the false start, but we'll get back to you with automatic updates as soon as possible (depending on when people return from vacation)."
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  157. # [09:27] * annevk was just about to quote that
  158. # [09:27] <MikeSmith> annevk: those dudes do love web sockets
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  163. # [10:14] <annevk> <noframes> can be present without <frameset> ?
  164. # [10:14] <annevk> so it seems
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  167. # [10:32] <jgraham> BenMillard: That looks much better than the current look. Personally I would make it even more minimal, in the style of http://tomayko.com/ or
  168. # [10:35] * Parts: bdash (n=bdash@fire/developer/bdash)
  169. # [10:36] <annevk> BenMillard, I think you should blow up the font size a bit though
  170. # [10:36] <annevk> BenMillard, just realized I had zoom set to 150 when I first viewed it
  171. # [10:45] <Hixie> <noframes> is always non-conforming
  172. # [10:45] <Hixie> as is <frameset>
  173. # [10:45] <annevk> oops, I meant in HTML4
  174. # [10:45] <Hixie> ah
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  176. # [10:48] <Philip`> http://www.crummy.com/2008/12/23/1 - "... html5lib (not as slow as I'd thought) ..." - that sounds encouraging
  177. # [10:53] <annevk> I'm a bit confused as to how compliant he's planning to be with HTML5
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  190. # [11:52] <gsnedders> ooo… xkcd Christmas special!
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  193. # [12:21] * Philip` gets horridly broken quotes when trying to reply to Hixie's latest public-html message
  194. # [12:22] <Hixie> yeah my bad
  195. # [12:22] <Hixie> pine doesn't do encodings well
  196. # [12:22] <Hixie> so anything non-ascii gets screwd up when i reply
  197. # [12:23] * gsnedders struggles on with Javascript
  198. # [12:27] * gsnedders wonders what he's doing wrong now
  199. # [12:27] <gsnedders> oh, I see
  200. # [12:27] <gsnedders> .length and not .len
  201. # [12:30] <gsnedders> What's the easiest to get all elements in the current dt/dd group when you have a dd element?
  202. # [12:34] <MikeSmith> Hixie: maybe Alpine does better with encodings
  203. # [12:35] <Hixie> MikeSmith: ?
  204. # [12:35] <MikeSmith> Hixie: Alpine is a fork of Pine, under a free license and with some enhancements, I think
  205. # [12:36] <gsnedders> Hixie: Replacement of Pine
  206. # [12:36] <Hixie> oh, i see
  207. # [12:36] <Hixie> yeah maybe
  208. # [12:36] <gsnedders> Hixie: One of the main points is Unicode support :P
  209. # [12:36] <Lachy> Hixie, doesn't Pine support UTF-8?
  210. # [12:36] <Hixie> i don't really care too much :-)
  211. # [12:36] * gsnedders makes sure to send Hixie as much email as possible that he can't read because it's Unicode :)
  212. # [12:36] <MikeSmith> Doug McIlroy uses Alpine, so it must be good :)
  213. # [12:41] <MikeSmith> actually, fwiw, I remember now that it's Brian Kernighan that uses Alpine, not McIlroy
  214. # [12:43] <gsnedders> Does <http://pastebin.com/m11e9d4f2> seem sane for getting a dl group?
  215. # [12:43] <gsnedders> Linus Torvalds uses Alpine, IIRC
  216. # [12:45] <Philip`> gsnedders: Write all your emails using Unicode's full-width letters, claiming it's so that readers will get the proper monospaced rendering even if they've got a silly proportional font
  217. # [12:45] <gsnedders> Philip`: :)
  218. # [12:49] <gsnedders> Now, what about that code? :P
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  220. # [12:53] <Lachy> surely no one attempts to read plain text email using a proportional font?! That's crazy cause it makes ASCII art render poorly
  221. # [12:53] <gsnedders> Do Javascript arrays have any equiv of Python's list.extend?
  222. # [12:53] <Lachy> gsnedders, what does list.extend do?
  223. # [12:54] <gsnedders> it takes one parameter, another list, and adds every member of that list to the list on which you call it
  224. # [12:54] <Lachy> I think there's a join() method for that
  225. # [12:55] * gsnedders finally finds in MDC what he wants
  226. # [12:55] <gsnedders> concat
  227. # [12:55] <gsnedders> join turns it into a string
  228. # [12:56] <Lachy> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Core_JavaScript_1.5_Reference/Global_Objects/Array/concat
  229. # [12:56] <Philip`> Lachy: Gmail uses a proportional font
  230. # [12:57] <Lachy> doesn't it have an option to use a monospace font?
  231. # [12:57] <gsnedders> Why is that not listed in <https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Core_JavaScript_1.5_Reference/Global_Objects/Array>!?
  232. # [12:57] <Lachy> gsnedders, because they moved them all to https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Core_JavaScript_1.5_Reference/Global_Objects/Array/prototype
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  234. # [13:01] <annevk> Hixie, you call it both storage and storageArea...
  235. # [13:01] <Hixie> oops
  236. # [13:02] <Hixie> fixed
  237. # [13:02] <Hixie> thanks
  238. # [13:04] <annevk> the title attribute in the IDL is still wrong...
  239. # [13:04] <annevk> Hixie, ^
  240. # [13:05] <Hixie> crap
  241. # [13:05] <Hixie> ok will fix shortly, hold on
  242. # [13:05] <Hixie> :-)
  243. # [13:15] * gsnedders sighs
  244. # [13:15] * gsnedders wishes toggling display of an element was easier in JS
  245. # [13:16] <Philip`> element.style.display = (element.style.display == 'none' ? 'inherit' : 'none'); I think
  246. # [13:17] <Philip`> or $(element).toggle()
  247. # [13:17] <gsnedders> That doesn't work when I need to explicitly set a special display value
  248. # [13:23] * gsnedders writes a more complex function that caches the display value
  249. # [13:24] * Philip` has mostly given up doing everything by hand and uses jQuery nowadays
  250. # [13:24] <gsnedders> Is it bad I've written more code for my English dissertation than for my computing project?
  251. # [13:25] <Philip`> <html xmlns:spaces xmlns:Web class="ClientFramework" web:culture="en-GB"> is amusing in far too many ways
  252. # [13:25] * gsnedders would need so much custom code for this project that using JQuery for one or two functions wouldn't be worthwhile
  253. # [13:25] <Philip`> gsnedders: Yes, it is
  254. # [13:29] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@48.80-202-82.nextgentel.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  255. # [13:39] * Philip` prefers the term "correct" rather than "pedantic"
  256. # [13:40] * gsnedders wants to add a youN00b exception to Anolis
  257. # [13:43] <Hixie> gsnedders: just toggle the 'hidden' attribute and have [hidden] { display: none } in the CSS
  258. # [13:43] <Hixie> it's Compliant HTML5! (tm)
  259. # [13:43] <gsnedders> Hixie: Does that work in IE6?
  260. # [13:43] <Hixie> if you're trying to make something work in IE6, you have bigger problems
  261. # [13:44] <gsnedders> :)
  262. # [13:44] <Hixie> in ie6, just use a class instead
  263. # [13:44] <gsnedders> Thankfully, I'm not trying to do very much
  264. # [13:44] <Philip`> In IE6, use *{display:expr(this.getAttribute('hidden')?'none':'inherit'}
  265. # [13:46] <Hixie> Philip`: thanks for the data, i don't see anything there that argues for spec changes, so i won't reply
  266. # [13:52] * gsnedders wonders why "quotes.parentNode.insertBefore(document.createElement("h3"), quotes);" won't work
  267. # [13:52] <gsnedders> NOT_FOUND_ERR :\
  268. # [13:52] <Hixie> nn
  269. # [13:52] <gsnedders> nighty
  270. # [13:55] <Hixie> hm
  271. # [13:55] * Hixie sees "SVG Tiny 1.2 is a W3C Recommendation" while brushing his teeth
  272. # [13:56] <Hixie> i wonder where the test cases are
  273. # [13:57] * gsnedders wonders whether Hixie typed that while brushing his teeth
  274. # [13:57] <Hixie> i can only find about 600 tests
  275. # [13:57] <Hixie> which doesn't seem right
  276. # [13:58] <Hixie> how did they test a 434 page spec with only 600 tests?
  277. # [13:59] <takkaria> the spec is obviously very verbose and repetetive :)
  278. # [13:59] <gsnedders> Quite easily and quickly I expect.
  279. # [14:01] <Hixie> ok bed time for real
  280. # [14:01] <Hixie> nn
  281. # [14:02] <gsnedders> How does "magicStringSets[magicStrings[i]] = getMagicStringSet(magicStrings[i] + ":");" add one to i?
  282. # [14:03] <Lachy> I guess other groups simply don't think they need 20,000 TCs for a spec that size, or the spec just doesn't define all that much that is testable.
  283. # [14:05] <Philip`> Maybe each test case tests many features of the spec
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  308. # [14:55] * ap_ is now known as ap
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  310. # [15:17] <Philip`> Hixie: The <script language> data is kind of suggesting a spec change
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  320. # [17:10] <gsnedders> TRs aren't being served :\
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  323. # [17:36] <gsnedders> How can you see if something is in a JS array?
  324. # [17:39] * Quits: hdh (n=hdh@58.187.23.139) ("Leaving.")
  325. # [17:39] <gavin> ar.indexOf(something) != -1
  326. # [17:39] <gavin> though it doesn't work in IE
  327. # [17:39] <gavin> otherwise, there's no good way other than iterating
  328. # [17:39] <gsnedders> ergh. Yay. :\
  329. # [17:40] <gsnedders> I need to find all the items in one array that aren't in another n arrays
  330. # [17:41] <gsnedders> But if I'm going to have to iterate this much, it may be quicker to just hide everything and then show it again.
  331. # [17:45] <gsnedders> Actually, it'll take the some number of iterations just more re-drawing
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  336. # [18:05] <Philip`> gsnedders: x={}; for each (i in one_array) x[i]=1; for each (i in the other n arrays) delete x[i]; for (i in x) do something with i
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  343. # [18:42] <BenMillard> annevk, the main text should be around 12px which is actually towards the larger end of what's common on the web
  344. # [18:43] <BenMillard> annevk, maybe your using a laptop with a small screen and very high pixel density?
  345. # [18:44] <BenMillard> jgraham, any more minimal and you can't tell things apart...but feel free to download the files and create your own demo
  346. # [18:45] <BenMillard> ultimately the style of the WHATWG Blog is determined by who does the work on it
  347. # [18:45] <annevk> BenMillard, I just like larger fonts, e.g. simply the browser default of 16px
  348. # [18:45] <annevk> (my laptop has a large widescreen with very high resolution)
  349. # [18:45] <annevk> "large" and "very high"
  350. # [18:46] <annevk> just trying to influence you :)
  351. # [18:46] <BenMillard> annevk, then you should use a browser which respects your DPI setting, imho, then the whole web will get scaled as you want it
  352. # [18:47] <BenMillard> does anything break when you view it at 150% zoom?
  353. # [18:47] <annevk> nope, but I rather not change settings
  354. # [18:48] <BenMillard> well, if you apply the theme to the blog then you can use as much or as little as you like from the demo :)
  355. # [18:48] <BenMillard> oh, family dinner is starting, cya round
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  358. # [19:54] <gsnedders> Hmmm
  359. # [19:54] <gsnedders> alert(element);
  360. # [19:54] <gsnedders> alert(element.style);
  361. # [19:54] <gsnedders> [object HTMLElement]
  362. # [19:54] <gsnedders> undefined
  363. # [19:57] <gsnedders> Philip`: Does that change it to a string?
  364. # [20:10] * gsnedders doesn't get why this isn't working
  365. # [20:11] <gsnedders> oh dud.
  366. # [20:11] <gsnedders> *duh
  367. # [20:11] * gsnedders realizes
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  369. # [20:35] <gsnedders> anyone have IE6?
  370. # [20:36] * Quits: ap (n=ap@195.239.126.11) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  371. # [20:43] * gsnedders gets an error in IE7
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  373. # [20:47] * ap_ is now known as ap
  374. # [20:47] <gsnedders> "object doesn't support this property or method" on a line/character combination which is LF
  375. # [20:51] <gsnedders> It seems to be failing on quotes = document.getElementById("quotes");
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  379. # [21:06] <gsnedders> now "textcontent is null or not an object"
  380. # [21:06] <gsnedders> yay :\
  381. # [21:08] <jgraham> IE doesn't/didn't support .textContent
  382. # [21:08] <jgraham> (assuming that's what you meant)
  383. # [21:10] <gsnedders> as of what version?
  384. # [21:10] <jgraham> gsnedders: No idea. I'm pretty sure 6 doesn't support it
  385. # [21:11] * gsnedders is currently trying 7
  386. # [21:11] <gsnedders> Ah, it simply doesn't support it at all
  387. # [21:11] <jgraham> (it looks like you could use something called .innerText for IE)
  388. # [21:14] <gsnedders> Is it not the case that DOM prototypes don't exist in IE?
  389. # [21:21] <gsnedders> Yeah, they don't.
  390. # [21:23] <gsnedders> Now failing on for (item in magicStringSets[magicStrings[k]])
  391. # [21:24] <gsnedders> Can't use item as a variable
  392. # [21:24] * Joins: olliej (n=oliver@c-67-164-125-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  393. # [21:29] <gsnedders> .checked on input@type=checkbox is reset on adding it to a document in IE
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  400. # [22:15] <Hixie> Philip`: i couldn't work out how to decide what strings would be downplayed if we allow javascript1.x.
  401. # [22:22] <ap> hi Hixie - do you have a moment for an AppCache question?
  402. # [22:22] <Hixie> sure
  403. # [22:23] <ap> Hixie: I can't understand what this note means: "The Document with which the ApplicationCache object is associated can only itself be associated with an application cache if it is in a top-level browsing context."
  404. # [22:23] <Hixie> it's a lie
  405. # [22:24] <ap> Hixie: is it that appcache used to be tied to a top-level context, but it no longer is?
  406. # [22:24] <Hixie> yeah
  407. # [22:24] <ap> Hixie: thanks! would you like me to send an e-mail about this?
  408. # [22:25] <Hixie> i've just removed the note
  409. # [22:25] <ap> Hixie: one more question, about application cache selection algorithm - what are the examples of "f the resource is not being loaded as part of navigation of a browsing context" there?
  410. # [22:26] <ap> Hixie: I'm having hard time fully understanding this section, as "the resource being downloaded" is not defined in it
  411. # [22:27] <ap> s/downloaded/loaded/
  412. # [22:29] <Hixie> e.g. a document downloaded by XHR
  413. # [22:29] <Hixie> there's always a resource being downloaded when the algorithm is invoked
  414. # [22:29] <ap> Hixie: will application cache selection algorithm even be invoked for XHR?
  415. # [22:29] <Hixie> sure, it's invoked by the HTML parser
  416. # [22:30] <ap> Hixie: ah well, it's just that we don't parse HTML there, only XML
  417. # [22:30] <Hixie> with xhr2 you will
  418. # [22:31] <ap> Hixie: am I right that document.write cannot be used to make an html tag with a manifest?
  419. # [22:33] * Joins: annevk (n=annevk@ip23-167-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
  420. # [22:33] <ap> Hixie: as for "there's always a resource being downloaded when the algorithm is invoked" - what about XMLParser?
  421. # [22:34] <Hixie> document.write() could be used to generate a manifest if the docment was document.open()ed first, iirc
  422. # [22:34] <Hixie> as in, if it all came from document.write()
  423. # [22:34] <Hixie> but if you see a <script> tag then you can no longer document.write() the <html> tag
  424. # [22:34] <Hixie> what about XMLParser?
  425. # [22:35] <ap> Hixie: that's a way to invoke parser (which will invoke cache selection algorithm) without downloading any resource
  426. # [22:36] <ap> Hixie: same for document.write, as you just explained
  427. # [22:36] <Hixie> (actually come to think of if document.open() wouldn't be part of navigation so it wouldn't trigger this)
  428. # [22:37] <Hixie> (it would trigger the If clause you asked about -- the "do nothing" one)
  429. # [22:37] <Hixie> in all the cases where you hit the mentions of "resource being loaded", there is a resource being loaded
  430. # [22:37] <Hixie> because if there wasn't, you would hit the first If clause and bail out
  431. # [22:38] * Parts: annevk (n=annevk@ip23-167-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
  432. # [22:38] <ap> Hixie: hmm, maybe it's good enough for a spec, but formally a clause that says "If the resource is not being loaded as part of navigation of a browsing context" doesn't match if there is no resource
  433. # [22:43] <Hixie> how can there be no resource?
  434. # [22:43] <Hixie> there's always a resource
  435. # [22:43] <Hixie> even if it's just a Document created by createDocument()
  436. # [22:46] <ap> Hixie: is "resource" formally defined somewhere? that's not how I understand that
  437. # [22:47] * Parts: erlehmann (n=erlehman@86.59.25.121)
  438. # [22:48] <gsnedders> What's the best way to loop over an object (à la for…in) but sorted in JS?
  439. # [22:53] <Hixie> ap: i'm just using it in the dictionary sense of "asset"
  440. # [22:54] <ap> Hixie: so, if a Document created with createDocument is a resource - is any Element a resource, too?
  441. # [22:54] <ap> Hixie: to me, a resource is something that can be loaded
  442. # [22:54] <Hixie> ap: *shrug* what terminology would you rather we use here?
  443. # [22:55] <ap> Hixie: to me, it would have been much easier if the resource was an explicit input parameter of the algorithm, just like manifest URL is, and it were specified at call sites
  444. # [22:56] <Hixie> i guess i can do that
  445. # [22:56] <ap> Hixie: cool, thanks!
  446. # [23:04] <Hixie> done
  447. # [23:08] <ap> looks good
  448. # [23:12] * Quits: shepazu (n=schepers@mo-76-0-60-125.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
  449. # [23:22] <Philip`> gsnedders: You might need to be careful to do "var quotes = ...", since window.quotes is the element with id="quotes" or something like that
  450. # [23:25] * Quits: ap (n=ap@195.239.126.11)
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  452. # Session Close: Thu Dec 25 00:00:00 2008

The end :)