/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2008-12-25 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Dec 25 00:00:00 2008
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:18] <Hixie> hsivonen: yt?
  4. # [00:19] <gsnedders> jgraham: yt?
  5. # [00:20] <Hixie> wow, svg doesn't define the content model of <foreignObject> at all
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  9. # [00:41] <deltab> gsnedders: sorted property names?
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  20. # [01:45] <gsnedders> deltab: Yeah, basically
  21. # [01:53] <deltab> oh, well, I can't suggest anything better than building a list of the property names, sorting it, and iterating over that
  22. # [01:58] <gsnedders> That's pretty much what I concluded. Sucks.
  23. # [01:58] * gsnedders has already written ~250 LOC for my English dissertation notes
  24. # [02:05] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: what's the topic of your English dissertation?
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  30. # [02:49] <BenMillard> I just saw the announcement for te ARIA implementation guide moving to public W3C space. It mentions HTML5: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#HTML_5_Tabindex
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  32. # [02:53] <MikeSmith> BenMillard: cool
  33. # [02:55] <BenMillard> and it links directly into relevant parts of the HTML5 spec
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  35. # [03:22] <MikeSmith> BenMillard: it appears that page is currently just a reformatted version of https://developer.mozilla.org/en/ARIA_User_Agent_Implementors_Guide
  36. # [03:23] <BenMillard> MikeSmith, yep but it's significant it's now under W3C, I think
  37. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> BenMillard: definitely
  38. # [03:28] <BenMillard> d'oh, I missed The Big Bang Theory during the night :(
  39. # [03:28] <BenMillard> time to drown my sorrows in hot chocolate
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  70. # [09:15] * MikeSmith admires the candor of Hixie commit message for r2584
  71. # [09:17] <Hixie> there are problems of vagueness in specs where the text leaves room for multiple interpretations
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  73. # [09:17] <Hixie> when such cases involve multiple roughly equally reasonable interpretations, pedancy and preciseness is important
  74. # [09:18] <Hixie> when such cases involve one sensible interpretation and one interpretation that, upon a mere few seconds of reflection, can be seen to be quite ridiculous, my patience for pedancy is reduced
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  76. # [09:45] * Hixie waits for w3.org to respond
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  78. # [10:07] <BenMillard> krijnh, everything in #css and #wai-aria for the past 8 days are just status messages. Are those channels used?
  79. # [10:08] <BenMillard> krijnh, could you avoid generating columns when all their values are 0? That would make #html-wg, #css #wai-aria and #webapps narrower (for me).
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  81. # [10:10] <Hixie> #css is used
  82. # [10:10] <Hixie> just not regularly
  83. # [10:10] <Hixie> or rather
  84. # [10:10] <Hixie> not frequently
  85. # [10:11] <BenMillard> yeah, there's not much regular activity in any channel to the right of #html-wg, although there is some from time to time
  86. # [10:12] <BenMillard> krijnh, I guess you could store the sum of values for each column before making each table, then only generate each cell in that table if the sum of that column was greater than 0?
  87. # [10:13] <BenMillard> although you should enjoy Xmas, first and foremost :)
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  90. # [10:15] <Hixie> ex-mas?
  91. # [10:15] <Hixie> or cross-mas?
  92. # [10:16] <BenMillard> short way of writing "Christmas" while slightly undermining it's role as a religious celebration :)
  93. # [10:17] <BenMillard> s/it's/its/
  94. # [10:17] <Hixie> heh
  95. # [10:17] * Hixie doesn't do christmas, he just pretends everyone is celebrating his birthday two days early
  96. # [10:17] <Hixie> (yep, i'm _that_ big-headed)
  97. # [10:18] * BenMillard runs off to mark those lines as Important...
  98. # [10:18] <Hixie> lol
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  100. # [10:18] <BenMillard> :P
  101. # [10:19] <BenMillard> I sometimes mark possibly controversial lines as important while catching up with logs so Mr Last Week can pick them up more easily
  102. # [10:21] <BenMillard> Hixie, are you working through table feedback at the moment? If so, that comparison with advice I did is finished (and I e-mailed Public HTML saying so and closed the action item it had)
  103. # [10:21] <Hixie> i did table feedback last week
  104. # [10:21] <Hixie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Dec/0175.html
  105. # [10:22] <BenMillard> oh, I missed that e-mail, thanks
  106. # [10:22] <Hixie> (did it just as soon as you sent that e-mail, iirc)
  107. # [10:22] <Hixie> yup, it's literally the next message in the archives
  108. # [10:28] <BenMillard> Hixie, I said something along these lines in my Standards Suck interview: "It assumes that authors are willing to write accessibility annotations, which has repeatedly been shown to not be the case."
  109. # [10:33] <Hixie> heh
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  112. # [11:02] <BenMillard> Hixie, should this say "1" rather than "-1" given that step 6 would abort if either was -1? "For each invocation of this algorithm, one of Δx and Δy will be −1, and the other will be 0." (http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tabular-data.html#header-and-data-cell-semantics)
  113. # [11:03] <BenMillard> oh wait, I'm getting Δx confused with x
  114. # [11:04] <BenMillard> man, and I thought the old algorithm was hard to follow :(
  115. # [11:06] <Hixie> heh
  116. # [11:06] <Hixie> jgraham: if you would implement the new table algorithm, that would be really helpful :-D
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  118. # [11:08] <BenMillard> Hixie, my understanding is slots with no cell are treated as if they had an empty cell by ATs, so the user can move straight through "gaps" at the ends of rows. If that's the case, slots without a cell should get associations as if they were an empty cell? "If there is no cell covering slot (x, y) [...] return to the substep marked loop."
  119. # [11:13] <BenMillard> the column header and row header definitions look good
  120. # [11:16] <BenMillard> yay, time for presents :D
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  127. # [12:01] <jgraham> Hixie: I already started
  128. # [12:01] <jgraham> But idn't have much time
  129. # [12:01] <Hixie> sweet!
  130. # [12:01] * jgraham is currently cooking goose
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  132. # [13:16] <Hixie> jgraham: enjoy the goose
  133. # [13:16] <Hixie> nn
  134. # [13:28] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: "A comparative study of the protagonists’ relationship and how the protagonists’ relationship is perceived by other characters in Vladimir Nabokov’s Ada or Ardor, Lolita, and The Enchanter."
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  137. # [13:45] <gsnedders> Hixie: Out of Commission is one the final missions?
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  140. # [13:48] * gsnedders uses Google, finds out it is the final mission on that branch
  141. # [13:48] <gsnedders> (There is more than one final mission)
  142. # [13:50] <gsnedders> Kaiser Chief's new album isn't as good as their previous two :\
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  154. # [17:35] <Hixie> gsnedders: no idea :-)
  155. # [17:35] <Hixie> gsnedders: but it seems like it
  156. # [17:35] <Hixie> gsnedders: i'll find out when i finally get through it :-P
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  166. # [20:28] <gsnedders> Hixie: Just use plenty of cover, it isn't that hard
  167. # [20:29] * gsnedders thinks about what happens at the end of the mission in this story line
  168. # [20:29] <gsnedders> (I've completed the game three times, and I've seen both possible story lines :P)
  169. # [20:30] <gsnedders> The choices don't have enough effect, IMO
  170. # [20:31] <jcranmer> gsnedders: which game?
  171. # [20:31] <gsnedders> jcranmer: GTA IV
  172. # [20:31] <jcranmer> ah
  173. # [20:32] <gsnedders> Hixie: How far have you got on the mission? Obviously enough to see the bike :)
  174. # [20:47] <gsnedders> Would changing HTMLInputElement.checked fire a change event?
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  258. # [23:28] <gsnedders> Can anyone explain variable scope in JS to me?
  259. # [23:31] <jgraham> gsnedders: Yes, someone can.
  260. # [23:31] <gsnedders> jgraham: Can I pm you about something totally different?
  261. # [23:31] <jgraham> gsnedders: Of course
  262. # [23:34] <Philip`> gsnedders: Variables are scoped to functions
  263. # [23:34] <Philip`> gsnedders: That's about all there is to know :-)
  264. # [23:35] <gsnedders> And they go into all child functions?
  265. # [23:35] <Philip`> Yes
  266. # [23:35] <Philip`> (if the inner function doesn't redeclare them in the inner function's scope, using 'var')
  267. # [23:35] <gsnedders> Using var?
  268. # [23:35] <gsnedders> Ah.
  269. # [23:35] <gsnedders> Ergh.
  270. # [23:35] <gsnedders> JS--
  271. # [23:37] <Philip`> The location of 'var' has no effect whatsoever, as far as I can tell - all that matters is its presence somewhere in a function, which causes it to belong to that function's scope
  272. # [23:37] <Philip`> (so "x=1; var x=2" is exactly equivalent to "var x=1; x=2")
  273. # [23:37] <Philip`> (and to "x=1; x=2; if (0) { var x }" etc)
  274. # [23:38] <jgraham> Yeah, I think js teats all vars as if they were declared at the start of the block
  275. # [23:38] <Philip`> jgraham: Function, not block
  276. # [23:38] <jgraham> OK, function
  277. # [23:39] <Philip`> I think it's the same as Python, except that Python does an implicit 'var' declaration whenever you assign to a variable
  278. # [23:40] <gsnedders> It's just the var stuff I didn't know about
  279. # [23:41] <gsnedders> I was assuming it was the same as Python (i.e., implicit)
  280. # [23:41] <Philip`> Ah
  281. # [23:41] <Philip`> If you don't use 'var', it's just global scope
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  283. # [23:47] <gsnedders> Re-assigning a variable doesn't change it's scope?
  284. # [23:47] <gsnedders> *its
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  286. # [23:55] <Philip`> gsnedders: By "re-assigning", do you mean re-declaring it with var?
  287. # [23:58] <gsnedders> Philip`: no, just foo = "bar"
  288. # [23:59] <Philip`> gsnedders: Assuming we're still talking about JS, assignment never affects scope at all
  289. # Session Close: Fri Dec 26 00:00:00 2008

The end :)