/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-02-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Feb 03 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:08] <ehird> http://ishtml5readyyet.com/ How ridiculously wrong. :P
  8. # [00:08] <Hixie> depends what you mean by "ready"
  9. # [00:08] <ehird> Well, I guess if you define "ready" as something other than "ready", it could be reasonable.
  10. # [00:10] <Philip`> Currently it's both ready and writey
  11. # [00:11] <Hixie> ehird: if by "ready" you mean "done, never to change again", then it's probably pretty accurate
  12. # [00:11] <ehird> That's "finished", not "ready", no?
  13. # [00:11] <Hixie> ehird: if by "ready" you mean "prepared for work to begin", then we're about 6 years past that point
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  15. # [00:12] <Hixie> if you mean something in between, then, well, like i said. it depends on how you define "ready".
  16. # [00:12] <ehird> By "ready", I mean "heat death of the universe". :-)
  17. # [00:16] <takkaria> Hixie: http://rafb.net/p/OVlhvi87.html
  18. # [00:18] <Hixie> ooh.
  19. # [00:18] <Hixie> h2 is smaller than _h3_
  20. # [00:18] <Hixie> you said h1.
  21. # [00:18] <Hixie> hence my confusion.
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  23. # [00:23] <takkaria> oh, sorry
  24. # [00:23] <takkaria> :)
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  26. # [00:23] <takkaria> the keys are right next to each other :)
  27. # [00:24] <Hixie> fixed :-)
  28. # [00:24] <Hixie> (not regenned yet)
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  84. # [03:43] <Hixie> seems like css3 ruby can't describe html5 ruby (and IE ruby)
  85. # [03:43] <Hixie> :-(
  86. # [03:46] <Hixie> if anyone can come up with an ordering that makes sense for the subsections in 10.4 Self-contained features, let me know
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  171. # [09:46] <annevk> hmm, CSS3 ruby can't describe HTML5 ruby? that'll give a rathole
  172. # [09:46] <annevk> apart from HTML5 ruby already being a potential rathole due to the existence of XHTML Ruby
  173. # [09:52] <hsivonen> Is it just me or do the Unicode folk have a pattern of first creating small and contained hacks that get accepted under the premise of not having a huge all-encompassing impact and then they point out interesting corner case interactions that would have huge impact if fully addressed?
  174. # [09:55] <annevk> it might be that since it is not their area they do not fully grasp the implications
  175. # [09:55] <annevk> if they do graps the implications however, the way they go around things is not really desirable
  176. # [09:56] <hsivonen> I mean, the Unicode was first sold as "just" expanding characters to 16 bits
  177. # [09:56] <hsivonen> and then later when you've expanded to 16 bits you are told that there are now surrogates and astral planes
  178. # [09:57] <hsivonen> and once you've dealt with astral planes, you are told that you need to perform normalization upon string compares
  179. # [09:58] <hsivonen> and the marginal benefit diminishes pretty significantly as the cost goes up
  180. # [09:58] <annevk> ooh, I thought you meant pointing out a small issue with Selectors that actually affects a whole lot more
  181. # [09:58] <annevk> to the extent that they even go asking consumers of the Selectors spec to point out the issue because Selectors has not changed yet
  182. # [09:59] <annevk> hsivonen, I'm sure it could've been worse :)
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  195. # [10:23] * jgraham is increasingly unsure that preserving LF in @title is the right thing to do
  196. # [10:28] * annevk is increasingly more sure it's the right thing to do
  197. # [10:31] <jgraham> annevk: Contrarian
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  201. # [10:32] <annevk> jgraham, looking that up, I'm not sure there's coventional wisdom or a consensus opinion here :p
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  203. # [10:34] <jgraham> annevk: Well I guess, under the assumption that the spec represents the majority opinion, I am the contrarian.
  204. # [10:34] <jgraham> But still
  205. # [10:35] <annevk> rubys would slap you for that statement
  206. # [10:35] <jgraham> annevk: I know, that's why I said it :)
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  209. # [10:36] <annevk> lastweekinhtml5 wannabe :p
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  211. # [10:38] <jgraham> I donnu, if I was a lastweek wannabe, presumably I would have a poll for whether Hixie or MikeSmith smelt more like cheese or something.
  212. # [10:38] <jgraham> s/donnu/dunno/
  213. # [10:52] * Joins: pergj (n=pergj@home.kvaleberg.no)
  214. # [10:55] <Hixie> gecko has some really weird code
  215. # [10:55] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  216. # [10:55] <Hixie> like http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/content/html/content/src/nsHTMLSharedElement.cpp
  217. # [10:55] <Hixie> wtf is with all the <spacer> stuff
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  220. # [11:02] <annevk> Hixie, they tried to have NN4 compat for a while
  221. # [11:04] <Hixie> apparently they didn't try very _hard_...
  222. # [11:14] <annevk> at some point IE compat became more important
  223. # [11:15] <roc> fortunately we didn't try that very hard either
  224. # [11:16] <annevk> :)
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  227. # [11:23] <fearphage> i have a test case that i'm trying to make sure is valid. could i bother anyone with that?
  228. # [11:25] <annevk> you can try
  229. # [11:25] <annevk> just paste a link
  230. # [11:26] <fearphage> http://files.myopera.com/fearphage/static/bugs.htm
  231. # [11:26] <fearphage> the one test that is yellow
  232. # [11:26] <fearphage> seemingly it doesn't apply unless it is served as xml... i want to make sure that is a true statement
  233. # [11:27] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  234. # [11:27] <fearphage> it'd take work for me to split them but i can if you want
  235. # [11:28] <fearphage> view the source and search for svg:script
  236. # [11:28] <fearphage> actually, here is the xml version failing http://files.myopera.com/fearphage/static/tc/svg-script.xhtml
  237. # [11:29] <annevk> that bug is marked fixed internally
  238. # [11:30] <fearphage> ok, i just want to know if i can test it without serving it as xml. http://files.myopera.com/fearphage/static/bugs.xhtml <-- xml mimetype
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  249. # [11:57] <annevk> fearphage, how about generating everything through script?
  250. # [11:58] <fearphage> come again?
  251. # [11:58] <fearphage> generating the entire test case from the script?
  252. # [12:00] * svl__ is now known as svl
  253. # [12:00] <annevk> if you do not want to use XML but still need namespaces and all in text/html you need to use script
  254. # [12:01] <fearphage> interesting. i'll have to look intot that
  255. # [12:03] <Hixie> man this rendering stuff is tedious
  256. # [12:03] <roc> I can't resist a UTF8 vs UTF16 war
  257. # [12:04] <fearphage> thanks annevk
  258. # [12:04] <annevk> roc, are you going to bring up the gzip argument?
  259. # [12:04] * annevk has seen one of them before
  260. # [12:06] <roc> what argument is that?
  261. # [12:07] <annevk> that the byte savings UTF-16 gives for some languages are done away by using compression
  262. # [12:07] <roc> I'm just mentioning that we did some analysis showing UTF-8 is way more compact than UTF-16 for the DOM text of the front pages of some "top 20" CJK sites
  263. # [12:08] <roc> and Wikipedia articles too
  264. # [12:08] <annevk> I see, interesting
  265. # [12:14] * Joins: myakura (n=myakura@p3020-ipbf505marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
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  267. # [12:16] <roc> The promulgation of UTF-16 is one of the dumbest, most wasteful things that's happened in software
  268. # [12:44] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  269. # [12:48] <gsnedders> At least it wasn't UTF-32.
  270. # [12:50] <hsivonen> roc: do you have an opinion on doing Unicode normalization on non-rendering layers in browsers?
  271. # [12:51] <roc> I know very little about Unicode normalization
  272. # [12:51] * Joins: zalan (n=kvirc@catv-89-132-201-122.catv.broadband.hu)
  273. # [12:52] <roc> so, no
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  275. # [12:53] <hsivonen> roc: ok. (I'm unsympathetic towards the idea of doing normalization on the parsing, DOM, JS or style system layers)
  276. # [12:53] <roc> I can see that
  277. # [12:53] <Lachy> hsivonen, do you understand why CC-by is not GPL compatible?
  278. # [12:54] <hsivonen> roc: ah. I now see you posted to the thread
  279. # [12:54] <gsnedders> What thread?
  280. # [12:54] * Parts: ehird (n=ehird@eso-std.org) ("Furthermore,")
  281. # [12:54] <annevk> www-style
  282. # [12:55] <gsnedders> Ah
  283. # [12:55] * Joins: ehird (n=ehird@eso-std.org)
  284. # [12:55] <gsnedders> I haven't been reading www-style very closely recently
  285. # [12:55] <hsivonen> Lachy: for one thing, it has requirements about attribution that aren't in either version of GPL
  286. # [12:56] <hsivonen> Lachy: also, an issue in the CC-by 2.x vs. GPLv2 analysis was the anti-TPM clause
  287. # [12:57] <Lachy> sure, but I can't imagine why the mere requirement of attribution affects compatibility, especially since attribution is considered a moral right in some countries (though, I don't think it is in the US), which makes it effectively required anyway
  288. # [12:57] <annevk> roc, the main problem with UTF-8 is that the DOM and such now rely on 16bit representation :/
  289. # [12:57] <Lachy> what anti-TPM clause? in CC-by or GPL?
  290. # [12:57] <hsivonen> Lachy: that's a gray area in non-software works
  291. # [12:57] <hsivonen> Lachy: in CC-by
  292. # [12:58] <Lachy> oh, I wasn't aware of that
  293. # [12:58] <Lachy> personally, I don't like using CC licences anyway and would prefer we didn't do so for the spec
  294. # [12:58] <hsivonen> Lachy: IANAL, but IIRC the expectations of attribution for software are close to null even in moral rights regimes
  295. # [12:59] * jgraham is bothered by the attribution clause in CC-by
  296. # [12:59] <roc> annevk: yes, that is the great tragedy of UTF-16
  297. # [12:59] <hsivonen> Lachy: also, one might argue that attribution in CC-by may go beyond statutory requirements
  298. # [12:59] <roc> it's baked into the DOM and JS and Java and C# and Windows, not to mention the code of Gecko and Webkit
  299. # [13:00] <hsivonen> also Cocoa
  300. # [13:00] <roc> yeah
  301. # [13:00] * jgraham tries to avoid thinking about Python in case he gets annoyed again
  302. # [13:00] <hsivonen> which UTF did Python 3 pick?
  303. # [13:01] <jgraham> hsivonen: "UCS guess which build option was used this time"
  304. # [13:01] <roc> actually with a good deal of cleverness we could probably reimplement the browser using UTF-8 internally
  305. # [13:01] * hsivonen mumbles something about fast string bridging in Jython, IronPython and PyObj-C
  306. # [13:01] <roc> and still have a fast charAt
  307. # [13:01] <gsnedders> hsivonen: It didn't.
  308. # [13:01] <roc> but it's not worth it
  309. # [13:02] * gsnedders sighs
  310. # [13:02] <gsnedders> Python's Unicode support is sadly pretty good for native Unicode support
  311. # [13:02] * Quits: roc (n=roc@121-72-179-35.dsl.telstraclear.net)
  312. # [13:03] <gsnedders> I mean, as we get more memory, the overhead of UTF-16 arguably becomes less important
  313. # [13:04] <jgraham> Do non-python 16bit string languages get things like the length of non-BMP strings right?
  314. # [13:04] * Joins: pauld (n=pauld@host81-130-15-214.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  315. # [13:05] <hsivonen> gsnedders: do you mean Python 3 retained the gross misfeature that is the compile time switch?
  316. # [13:05] <gsnedders> hsivonen: YEs
  317. # [13:05] <jgraham> hsivonen: Yes
  318. # [13:05] <Philip`> gsnedders: That would only be true if the amount of string data stored by programs didn't increase proportionally to the amount of memory we have
  319. # [13:05] <gsnedders> *Yes
  320. # [13:05] <hsivonen> gsnedders, jgraham: that's very sad
  321. # [13:05] <gsnedders> hsivonen: Very.
  322. # [13:06] <gsnedders> jgraham: 32-bit Python gets it right :P
  323. # [13:06] <hsivonen> jgraham: isn't the length worth caring about the number of code units anyway?
  324. # [13:06] <jgraham> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2008-July/080886.html
  325. # [13:07] <hsivonen> the number of characters is neither useful as a measure of storage nor as a measure of human-perceived units
  326. # [13:07] <Philip`> gsnedders: (e.g. web browsers used to have 16MB of space to use for one page, and now they have 2GB and everyone wants a hundred tabs open, so it's no good if memory usage per page increases)
  327. # [13:07] <jgraham> hsivonen: That's not my experience
  328. # [13:08] <hsivonen> jgraham: ok. perhaps I'm falling into the trap of strict Unicode correctness including corner cases myself here
  329. # [13:08] <jgraham> Like I have no use for doing some_string[4] and finding out that it's the first part of a surrogate pair
  330. # [13:09] <Philip`> What do you want some_string[4] to mean?
  331. # [13:09] <hsivonen> oh yeah, making Validator.nu astrally correct in Java was "fun"
  332. # [13:10] <Philip`> (and for what use case?)
  333. # [13:10] <jgraham> (I haven't read much of ww-style but I just tested some browsers and it seems that Webkit handles <span>o<span style="color:green;">̈</span> fine wh but other browsers generally do not)
  334. # [13:13] <jgraham> Philip`: I want it to never return half a surrogate pair. I don't mind it returning a combining character
  335. # [13:14] <hsivonen> jgraham: why?
  336. # [13:14] <hsivonen> jgraham: isn't splitting a grapheme annoying, too?
  337. # [13:15] <Philip`> Why do you need the ability to index the string like an array anyway?
  338. # [13:16] <Hixie> man i wish someone had volunteered to do this rendering section
  339. # [13:16] <jgraham> hsivonen: It's not clear to me how it is possible to design a sane api where graphemes are not split when they are in fact seperate in the underlying representation
  340. # [13:17] <annevk> Hixie, people volunteer to do the simple stuff (and then get bitten, see e.g. XMLHttpRequest)
  341. # [13:17] <Hixie> heh
  342. # [13:17] <Hixie> there's no simple stuff :-)
  343. # [13:17] * Quits: nessy (n=nessy@124-168-129-172.dyn.iinet.net.au) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  344. # [13:17] <Hixie> not if you do it right
  345. # [13:18] <jgraham> hsivonen: Although maybe if you make everything very complicated and put lots of normalisation-related methods on each string you can do it
  346. # [13:20] * wilhelm noticed.
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  349. # [13:29] <annevk> bit unfortunate that :indeterminate was dropped from CSS just now HTML5 adds it
  350. # [13:29] <Hixie> heh
  351. # [13:30] <hsivonen> does CSS have a pseudo class that would be suitable for denoting an active caption per video clock?
  352. # [13:32] <annevk> you lost me in the end
  353. # [13:33] <Lachy> hsivonen, I don't understand what you mean
  354. # [13:34] <jgraham> I assume hsivonen means a :showing pseudo class that would match the caption currently being displayed from some list of captions or so
  355. # [13:34] <hsivonen> suppose you have a caption that you want to be visible from t_1 to t_2
  356. # [13:35] <hsivonen> and you'd do this by making the caption gain a pseudo class when the video is playing between t_1 and t_2
  357. # [13:35] <hsivonen> jgraham: that's what I mean
  358. # [13:36] <annevk> since the captions are likely to be part of the video resource, wouldn't something like video::caption be better?
  359. # [13:37] <hsivonen> annevk: as far as I can tell, security requires captions to live in a nested browsing context as far as the DOM cares
  360. # [13:38] <annevk> that sounds like an implementation detail
  361. # [13:38] * Joins: WebG-Alt (n=gk@host86-164-107-86.range86-164.btcentralplus.com)
  362. # [13:38] <hsivonen> annevk: do you mean you'd style the captions by styling a pseudo element in the outer cascade?
  363. # [13:39] * Hixie mumbles something about styling captions
  364. # [13:39] <WebG-Alt> Hi anne. Was this directed to me? - WebG
  365. # [13:39] <hsivonen> annevk: I'd expect what you are saying to be more complex than making the nested browsing context have its own cascade
  366. # [13:39] <hsivonen> annevk: but I'm not a style system implementor
  367. # [13:41] <WebG-Alt> Fair enough!
  368. # [13:41] <annevk> WebG-Alt, prolly not :)
  369. # [13:42] <annevk> hsivonen, I have no idea what you're on about; <video> does not have a nested browsing context; captions are not represented by elements in the DOM; what is a pseudo-class good for?
  370. # [13:42] <WebG-Alt> D'oh sorry. Thought message was for me. Sorry unfamiliar with IRC!
  371. # [13:43] <hsivonen> annevk: suppose a model where captions are rendered by the browser's CSS formatter in a nested browsing context that overlays the video frame
  372. # [13:44] <gsnedders> Anyone got a sane style sheet for a letter?
  373. # [13:44] <hsivonen> gsnedders: hendry has a Web service that might contain one
  374. # [13:45] * Quits: webben (n=webben@nat/yahoo/x-f2f12bcffe1809a8) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  375. # [13:45] <annevk> hsivonen, ok, how would a pseudo-class help?
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  377. # [13:45] <annevk> hsivonen, would you have selectors that bleed through the browsing context boundary (as seen in <iframe seamless>, but not in any browser)
  378. # [13:46] <hsivonen> annevk: suppose the nested browsing context contains a DOM with captions for different times as siblings
  379. # [13:46] <hsivonen> annevk: and then the :showing (or whatever) pseudo class travels from one DOM item to another as playback time progresses
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  381. # [13:47] <jgraham> (the obvious HTML would presumably be an <ol>)
  382. # [13:47] <hsivonen> jgraham: <div> :-)
  383. # [13:47] <gsnedders> Heck, how would you markup a letter in HTML?
  384. # [13:47] <gsnedders> HTML so isn't made for this :)
  385. # [13:48] * gsnedders concludes LaTeX is probably better, again
  386. # [13:48] * Joins: xydyx (n=hdh@58.187.21.121)
  387. # [13:48] <Philip`> gsnedders: Use Word - it's made for this
  388. # [13:49] <gsnedders> Philip`: But LaTeX has the document class "letter"!
  389. # [13:49] <annevk> hsivonen, I think one draft had :show and :hide at one point, but I'm not sure how that would help
  390. # [13:49] <gsnedders> Philip`: And LaTeX > Word.
  391. # [13:49] <Philip`> gsnedders: And Word has a document template "Letter"
  392. # [13:50] <jgraham> gsnedders: Yes. But only in certian circumstances and if you are prepared to play free and easy with your sanity.
  393. # [13:50] <hsivonen> annevk: is :show generic enough that a vocabulary can give it a meaning without a lot of CSS WG process?
  394. # [13:50] <annevk> hsivonen, oh, I guess you want to style the caption file itself
  395. # [13:51] <WebG-Alt> This may be a crap suggestion, but what about just, e.g. dragging a .doc into say DreamWeaver and letting it autocreate the styles? Theyll be moronically named but it may do the trick?
  396. # [13:51] <WebG-Alt> For jgraham
  397. # [13:52] <annevk> hsivonen, can't find :show anymore
  398. # [13:52] <annevk> hsivonen, might have been :open and :closed from http://www.damowmow.com/temp/csswg/old/ui/dui.html
  399. # [13:52] <jgraham> WebG-Alt: I'm not trying to do anything. gsnedders is.
  400. # [13:52] * gsnedders is the idiot, not jgraham
  401. # [13:52] <hsivonen> annevk: thanks
  402. # [13:52] <WebG-Alt> Sorry
  403. # [13:54] <annevk> hsivonen, http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-preslev/ comes to mind as well
  404. # [13:56] <hsivonen> I wonder how much process in involved in getting the CSS WG mint a pseudo class
  405. # [13:57] <annevk> there's lots of time involved
  406. # [13:57] <annevk> e.g. :scope still has not been discussed by the WG
  407. # [13:57] <hsivonen> annevk: that's what I suspected
  408. # [13:57] <annevk> took a long time to get http://www.w3.org/TR/becss/ published as well
  409. # [13:59] <Hixie> i don't remember that taking _that_ long
  410. # [13:59] <annevk> after it took several weeks longer than necessary to decide to publish, it took another coupld of months before it actually got published
  411. # [14:00] * Parts: WebG-Alt (n=gk@host86-164-107-86.range86-164.btcentralplus.com)
  412. # [14:00] <annevk> the becss sample might be good to use for getting :scope through
  413. # [14:00] <annevk> though
  414. # [14:02] <hendry> gsnedders: letterly.com
  415. # [14:02] <gsnedders> hendry: thx
  416. # [14:03] <hsivonen> so if this pseudo class idea were pursued, should Mozilla just mint a :-moz-foo pseudo class and risk content coming to depend on it or how would things work out best?
  417. # [14:04] <gsnedders> hendry: Heh. Just uses XeTeX :)
  418. # [14:04] <hsivonen> the relevant discussion is on xiph's accessibility list, btw
  419. # [14:04] <Hixie> ok bed time
  420. # [14:04] <Hixie> nn
  421. # [14:04] <gsnedders> sleep tight, little boy :P
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  423. # [14:13] <annevk> hmm, hsivonen, are you following the www-tag discussion on making rel take URLs?
  424. # [14:14] * annevk is not sure how to say that making rel= significantly more complex without direct benefit is not such a great idea
  425. # [14:14] <hsivonen> annevk: not properly. I'm trying to escape the tyranny of email and get actual code written
  426. # [14:14] * annevk can think of more important features to implement than resolving rel values as URLs before comparison
  427. # [14:15] <hsivonen> annevk: I did notice that I got CCs on the thread
  428. # [14:15] <annevk> hsivonen, more power to you then :)
  429. # [14:18] <Philip`> http://philip.html5.org/data/link-rel-rev.txt - some of those don't look like they're going to work too happily if you resolve them as URLs
  430. # [14:19] * Joins: starjive (i=beos@213-66-216-93-no30.tbcn.telia.com)
  431. # [14:23] <annevk> the idea is also rather incompatible with relList at the moment
  432. # [14:23] <hsivonen> sigh. I can't even program simple BOM sniffing right
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  435. # [14:36] <jgraham> Philip`: Apparentely the TAG don't have to worry about the real world or something
  436. # [14:37] <annevk> replied
  437. # [14:37] <annevk> we'll see what happens
  438. # [14:37] <annevk> I'm not really inclined to even ask for resources to implement such features; seems so far away from what everyday authors are asking for...
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  446. # [15:15] <annevk> hsivonen, I'm curious, how far are you in making the HTML5 parser work in Gecko?
  447. # [15:17] <hsivonen> right now I'm trying to complete all the encoding stuff that I needed to reimplement with Gecko's APIs
  448. # [15:17] <hsivonen> and layout is still notified too often
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  456. # [15:54] <zcorpan> gsnedders: anolis doesn't handle <dl><dt><dt> correctly
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  461. # [16:25] <jgraham> Does anyone know of a simple js plotting library where I can give it a html table and say "plot column 1 against column 3"
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  463. # [16:28] <Lachy> jgraham, plotkit
  464. # [16:32] <jgraham> Lachy: Oh, right, I missed that part of the docs. Thanks :)
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  468. # [16:51] * gsnedders guesses the parser doesn't, and Anolis does fine
  469. # [16:51] <gsnedders> Because Anolis doesn't do anything with dl/dt AFAIK
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  475. # [17:04] <yorick> with the application cache, is there any way to access online data when online instead of updating the cache and then load it?
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  477. # [17:08] * Philip` wonders if anyone has made a blog commenting system where 'trusted' users (e.g. those who have posted non-spam comments in the past) can view the moderation queue of posts from untrusted users and approve them
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  479. # [17:16] * bzed thinks that should not be too hard to add that to ikiwiki
  480. # [17:19] <annevk> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/02/02/birth-of-a-security-feature-clickjacking-defense.aspx I do not really agree with their notion of "open forum". They could have discussed this e.g. on various public mailing lists, but didn't.
  481. # [17:24] <Lachy> Philip`, that sounds like a good idea
  482. # [17:24] <Lachy> I don't know of any that do that
  483. # [17:25] <Lachy> I think the closest there is to it is probably the slashdot system where people are granted temporary rights to moderate comments
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  490. # [17:56] <dglazkov> good morning, WebKit!
  491. # [17:58] <Philip`> dglazkov: Wrong channel? :-)
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  493. # [18:12] <dglazkov> indeed
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  503. # [18:45] <gsnedders> hsivonen: validator.nu often includes <http://c.validator.nu/all/> which doesn'texist
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  508. # [19:18] <Philip`> gsnedders: Hasn't XML Namespaces taught you that you shouldn't expect URIs to be dereferencable?
  509. # [19:18] <gsnedders> Philip`: :)
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  560. # [21:27] * zcorpan__ is now known as zcorpan
  561. # [21:27] * zcorpan looks at http://html4all.org/HTML_Workgroup/tHTML_Parsing.html
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  563. # [21:30] <zcorpan> it seems a script would only execute if it is in the form <script src=... />
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  565. # [21:32] <zcorpan> <!doctype html><head><div> would insert the div in head
  566. # [21:35] <zcorpan> oh wait i was wrong about the script thing
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  568. # [21:39] <zcorpan> <html relaxngdefinition=...>?
  569. # [21:42] <zcorpan> there's <handler> and <separator> and <h> and <l> but not <nl>
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  613. # [23:44] <Hixie> gsnedders: my opinion is that i micromanage my biblio so much that any kind of automated system would actually be a net loss of productivity to me. :-)
  614. # [23:51] <gsnedders> Hixie: :)
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  616. # Session Close: Wed Feb 04 00:00:00 2009

The end :)