/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-02-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Feb 07 00:00:01 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <Hixie> ok ojan said size*avgCharWidth + (maxCharWidth - avgCharWidth)
  4. # [00:00] <Hixie> my font has two glyphs, 200 and 1000 wide respectively
  5. # [00:01] <Hixie> so the average is 600
  6. # [00:01] <Hixie> 20 * 600 + (1000 - 600) = 12400 font units wide
  7. # [00:01] <Hixie> and the height of the font is 1000
  8. # [00:01] <ojan> Hixie: to be clear it's whatever the font file claims to be the avg/max
  9. # [00:01] <Hixie> so 1em = 1000
  10. # [00:02] <Hixie> so i'd expect it 12.4em wide
  11. # [00:02] * Hixie checks
  12. # [00:03] <Hixie> well that didn't work. let's see what my font is really saying.
  13. # [00:03] * Hixie gets the microsoft typography tool out
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  17. # [00:07] <Hixie> uh, i wasn't using my font
  18. # [00:07] <Hixie> oops
  19. # [00:07] * Hixie tries again
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  25. # [00:13] <Hixie> ojan: well my font has 600 avg width and 1000 max width and it still doesn't give me the results i expect
  26. # [00:14] <ojan> what's it give?
  27. # [00:14] <Hixie> something's fishy here
  28. # [00:14] <Hixie> let me get back to you
  29. # [00:20] <Hixie> ooh, interesting, some padding is added to the width even if the padding style is set to 0
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  35. # [00:26] <Hixie> hmm
  36. # [00:26] <Hixie> the weird border and padding behavior complicates this
  37. # [00:26] * gsnedders places a light bulb over Hixie's head and hopes all is solved
  38. # [00:28] * Quits: weinig_ (n=weinig@17.244.17.181) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  39. # [00:35] <Hixie> ojan: i was barking up the wrong tree in quirks mode and IE was screwing up the rendering now obeying CSS rules. trying in standards mode now!
  40. # [00:38] <Hixie> ojan: yeah, you are correct, at least in standards mode. how did you reverse engineer that? brute force?
  41. # [00:39] <ojan> Hixie: trial and error
  42. # [00:39] <Hixie> nice work
  43. # [00:39] <Hixie> is it the same in quirks mode except that the width includes the padding and border?
  44. # [00:39] <ojan> and some help from dean pointing me in the right direction
  45. # [00:40] <ojan> Hixie: not sure off the top of my head, but that sounds right
  46. # [00:42] <Hixie> outer width is 2px bigger in quirks mode, it seems
  47. # [00:42] <Hixie> which seems backwards
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  53. # [01:15] <jcranmer> wow, that quit message tripped me up
  54. # [01:15] <jcranmer> one of my friend's names is burton
  55. # [01:24] <Hixie> does he work at lockheed martin?
  56. # [01:25] <jcranmer> still at university
  57. # [01:25] <Hixie> bummer
  58. # [01:25] <Hixie> wouldn't it have been awesome if i had been right though
  59. # [01:26] * Joins: alyoshka (n=anime4ch@74.93.182.234)
  60. # [01:26] <alyoshka> is it <details open="true"> or <details open="open">?
  61. # [01:27] <alyoshka> and does <details open="false"> or <details open="closed"> work?
  62. # [01:28] <alyoshka> attribute minimization isn't allowed in XHTML, and HTML5 is aiming for an XHTML implementation, so this is important
  63. # [01:28] <Hixie> it's <details open=""> and <details>
  64. # [01:29] <Hixie> (<details open="open"> is also allowed. the actual value has no effect, only the presence or absence of the attribute matters.)
  65. # [01:30] <alyoshka> thanks. and would the javascript interface include setAttribute("open", "anythinggoeshere")?
  66. # [01:30] <Hixie> anything will work, but only "" and "open" are allowed for the second argument (they both open the element)
  67. # [01:30] <Hixie> see http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-details-element
  68. # [01:30] <Hixie> in particular, notice it says that "The open content attribute is a boolean attribute."
  69. # [01:31] <Hixie> and then see http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#boolean-attribute
  70. # [01:31] <alyoshka> ah, I see, that "boolean attribute" part confused me at first
  71. # [01:31] <Hixie> once browsers implement <details>, there'll also be a .open DOM attribute
  72. # [01:31] <Hixie> the section, or the term?
  73. # [01:31] <alyoshka> the term
  74. # [01:31] <Hixie> ah
  75. # [01:31] <alyoshka> I missed the explaination
  76. # [01:31] <Hixie> always follow hyperlinks to read the definitions :-)
  77. # [01:32] <Hixie> the terms in html5 are not always what they appear (usually due to a lack of more appropriate terms)
  78. # [01:32] <alyoshka> that page always make Opera run so slow while loading so sometimes I'm too lazy to open it
  79. # [01:33] <alyoshka> lol, I know , it's bad
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  81. # [01:33] <alyoshka> is there a sectioned version of the spec?
  82. # [01:34] <xydyx> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/
  83. # [01:34] <Hixie> http://whatwg.org/html5
  84. # [01:34] <Hixie> ^ multipage version
  85. # [01:34] <Hixie> it says so right at the top of the document :-)
  86. # [01:35] <alyoshka> thanks
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  88. # [01:38] <alyoshka> coolness, I made a simple style rule that takes care of open/closed
  89. # [01:39] <alyoshka> it excludes IE6 and 7 tho AFAIK
  90. # [01:39] <alyoshka> uses the :before pseudo-element
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  92. # [01:43] <alyoshka> say, should the contents of <details> (except for the triangle) be a bit indented?
  93. # [01:44] <alyoshka> > Details
  94. # [01:44] <alyoshka> \/ Details
  95. # [01:44] <alyoshka> The details
  96. # [01:45] <alyoshka> \/ Details
  97. # [01:45] <alyoshka> --The details
  98. # [01:45] <alyoshka> something like that?
  99. # [01:45] <alyoshka> where the content lines up with the legend text, past the triangle
  100. # [01:46] <alyoshka> well, it's probably going to be the choice of the UA developers, but I mean, like a recommended style
  101. # [01:52] <alyoshka> yikes, Firefox thinks the whole page down from the <legend> is wrapped in a <fieldset> since there's a <legend> there
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  104. # [01:54] <Hixie> alyoshka: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/rendering.html#the-details-element-0
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  108. # [17:31] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  109. # [17:31] * Set by annevk on Thu Feb 05 13:51:18
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  113. # [19:05] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  114. # [19:05] * Set by annevk on Thu Feb 05 13:51:18
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  120. # [19:57] <annevk5> it sort of seems rendering should be normative for Web browsers at least given that we're effectively required to implement that anyway
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  123. # [20:00] <Philip`> There will be some class of web browsers that need to do things differently (e.g. because they're on constrained devices)
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  125. # [20:01] <Philip`> and it seems unreasonable to try to precisely define what class of UAs the requirements are required for
  126. # [20:01] <Philip`> so it'd end up being effectively optional, because any browser developer could claim they're not in the class that the normative rendering requirements apply to
  127. # [20:01] <Philip`> and so they might as well be non-normative
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The end :)