/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-03-28 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Mar 28 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:01] * Joins: pauld (n=pauld@host86-133-17-49.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
  4. # [00:03] * Parts: ojan (n=ojan@72.14.229.81)
  5. # [00:15] <sicking_> Hixie, ping
  6. # [00:16] * sicking_ is now known as sicking
  7. # [00:16] <Hixie> sicking: here
  8. # [00:16] <sicking> Hixie, re CDATA
  9. # [00:16] <Hixie> yes?
  10. # [00:16] <sicking> Hixie, was there anything that was unclear in my latest email on the subject to the HTML list?
  11. # [00:17] <Hixie> uri?
  12. # [00:17] <Hixie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Mar/0511.html ?
  13. # [00:18] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-07cc00c20f701a00)
  14. # [00:18] <Hixie> insofar as i don't understand what the proposal exactly is, yes
  15. # [00:19] <annevk3> sicking, could you please post your redirect proposal? Talked with ap from WebKit and he thinks the current spec module 303 for preflight request makes sense.
  16. # [00:19] <Hixie> s/module/modulo/?
  17. # [00:19] <annevk3> yes
  18. # [00:20] <annevk3> Hixie, I think the idea is to parse the data as CDATA, then if it starts with <![CDATA[ and ends with ]]> you strip that (ignoring whitespace) before handing it of to the style or script engine
  19. # [00:21] * Quits: jwalden (n=waldo@c-76-102-160-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508]")
  20. # [00:21] <annevk3> Hixie, for both HTML and SVG <script> and <style> elements
  21. # [00:21] * Quits: mpilgrim (n=mark@67.217.134.48) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  22. # [00:21] <Hixie> in xml or in html? how do you deal with <!-- magic? what about <![CDATA[ ]]> elsewhere? are the svgwg really ok with us not achieving their sole goal?
  23. # [00:22] <annevk3> HTML; you do not deal with <!-- magic. I.e. when that is there you would not do the stripping; they say they think this solution is fine
  24. # [00:24] <annevk3> oh, and <![CDATA[ ]]> elsewhere would also not be stripped or handled (so if you have a double block you'd run into issues)
  25. # [00:25] <Hixie> so uh
  26. # [00:25] * slightlyoff_afk is now known as slightlyoff
  27. # [00:25] <Hixie> why did they list one goal is they don't actually care about that goal
  28. # [00:25] <Hixie> i've been evaluating things based on the requirements they listed
  29. # [00:26] <annevk3> apparently it's not a black/white thing
  30. # [00:26] <annevk3> and this would still work for most copy/paste scenarios; just like the other solutions work for most copy/paste scenarios, but not all
  31. # [00:26] <annevk3> Simon had a different solution by the way: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Mar/0624.html
  32. # [00:29] <sicking> Hixie, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Mar/0634.html
  33. # [00:30] <Hixie> oh i haven't replied to that. but no, you are incorrect; making d.w() async doesn't make it not work
  34. # [00:31] <Hixie> it just means the parser isn't invoked reentrantly while the script is running
  35. # [00:32] <Hixie> it's the same thing as what happens in normal <script> in html when you do document.write("<script src=a></script>..."): the ... isn't parsed until after the original outer script is finished and the "a" script is downloaded and run.
  36. # [00:32] <sicking> Hixie, and from i haven't heard anyone from the svg WG has objected to having entities inside <script> not work. The theory being that the far vast majority uses <![CDATA[]]>
  37. # [00:33] <sicking> Hixie, i can find pointers to agreement that that is ok if that helps
  38. # [00:33] <sicking> Hixie, ok, wasn't sure which interpreation of how d.w() was gonna work was the correct one. Spec isn't very clear.
  39. # [00:34] <Hixie> these are two separate issues
  40. # [00:34] <Hixie> so let's start with the cdata one
  41. # [00:34] <sicking> indeed
  42. # [00:34] <sicking> fwiw i do treat the issues separately in the mail
  43. # [00:35] <Hixie> the proposal is to remove 8.2.4.36 CDATA section state, along with all the branch that leads to that state, and then to make <script> amd <style> in SVG use the "generic CDATA element parsing algorithm"
  44. # [00:36] <Hixie> and then to strip leading and trailing <![CDATA[ ]]> text somehow
  45. # [00:36] <Hixie> right?
  46. # [00:36] <Hixie> or not?
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  48. # [00:40] * slightlyoff is now known as slightlyoff_afk
  49. # [00:46] <sicking> Hixie, would that remove the ability to have <![CDATA[]]> outside of <script> and <style>?
  50. # [00:47] <Hixie> yes
  51. # [00:47] <sicking> that does not seem acceptable
  52. # [00:47] <sicking> why would you do that?
  53. # [00:47] <Hixie> that's what anne said you had proposed
  54. # [00:47] <sicking> that was wrong :)
  55. # [00:47] <Hixie> i recommend sending an e-mail with a clear statement of the proposal
  56. # [00:47] <sicking> Hixie, what is not clear in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Mar/0634.html ?
  57. # [00:48] <Hixie> oh i didn't realise that also talked about cdata parsing
  58. # [00:48] <sicking> Hixie, see the part starting with "Instead, I propose the following behavior"
  59. # [00:48] <Hixie> i haven't gotten to that e-mail yet
  60. # [00:48] * Quits: kangax (n=kangax@157.130.31.226)
  61. # [00:48] <sicking> Hixie, it talks about both issues. Separately
  62. # [00:49] <sicking> Hixie, except I just spotted one error
  63. # [00:49] <Hixie> so wait, they want to make <script> and <style> work like html but everything else not work like html?
  64. # [00:49] <Hixie> i'm really confused now
  65. # [00:49] <Hixie> what's the goal here?
  66. # [00:49] <sicking> i can only speak for my goals:
  67. # [00:50] <sicking> 1. Make everything that exists both in HTML and SVG work the same in HTML and SVG
  68. # [00:50] <sicking> 2. Make the rest of SVG work as similar as it makes sense to HTML
  69. # [00:50] <sicking> 3. Eat cookies
  70. # [00:51] <Hixie> ok well that's basically completely incompatible with the goal the svgwg have conveyed
  71. # [00:51] <Hixie> it would mean doing things like making tags that are known to never have children be void elements, and not support the /> syntax, and not support cdata at all, and so on
  72. # [00:51] <sicking> oh, also: 2.5 Make it possible for as much as possible of XML-SVG content to be copyable into HTML
  73. # [00:52] <Hixie> your goals are incompatible with themselves
  74. # [00:53] <sicking> there's some "as much *as possible*" and "as similar as it *makes sense*" in there that makes it compatible
  75. # [00:53] <sicking> there's no absolutes
  76. # [00:53] <sicking> it's all about tradeoffs
  77. # [00:54] <sicking> i'd imagine there's no one goal that is absolute. Ever. It's all relative
  78. # [00:54] <Hixie> as similar as possible and as copyable as possible are not compatible goals
  79. # [00:54] <Hixie> i don't know how to evaluate when to do one and when to do the other
  80. # [00:54] <Hixie> what is the criteria by which we know how much to not address each goal?
  81. # [00:54] <sicking> that's why we have conversations
  82. # [00:54] <Hixie> how do conversations help us evaluate how far to go?
  83. # [00:55] <sicking> when it comes to tradeoffs between making it similar to HTML and making it possible to copy, i'd judge it by how much existing content would we have to make not copyable, compared to how much extra compatibility would we get with HTML
  84. # [00:55] <sicking> that's why i say it's all tradeoffs
  85. # [00:56] <sicking> isn't that how it is with everything else in HTML5?
  86. # [00:56] <Hixie> aha, basing it on data
  87. # [00:56] <Hixie> ok
  88. # [00:56] <Hixie> do we have that data?
  89. # [00:56] <Hixie> i don't have an svg corpus
  90. # [00:56] <sicking> very little. Just have the judgements of the SVG people
  91. # [00:56] <Hixie> if the judgements of the svg people are anything like the judgements of the html people, they're wildly off :-)
  92. # [00:56] <sicking> so basically the SVG they have seen and authored
  93. # [00:56] <Hixie> ok there has to be better data than that, surely
  94. # [00:57] <Hixie> i wonder where we can get a good svg corpus
  95. # [00:57] <sicking> yeah, that would be great indeed
  96. # [00:57] <Hixie> Philip` had some svgs from wikipedia, i wonder if that is representative
  97. # [00:57] * gsnedders waves a crazed lunatic
  98. # [00:57] <Philip`> They're not representative
  99. # [00:58] <Philip`> particularly because they (almost?) never have scripting
  100. # [00:58] <Hixie> bummer
  101. # [00:58] <Philip`> (seeing as they're designed to be flattened into PNGs by Wikipedia's thumbnailer)
  102. # [00:58] * Quits: pauld (n=pauld@host86-133-17-49.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
  103. # [00:59] <sicking> Philip`, is there a reason to believe that other SVG has more scripting?
  104. # [00:59] <Hixie> are there sites like for flash games where people upload their animated or scripted svgs or something?
  105. # [00:59] <sicking> Philip`, though i guess the wikipedia ones have absolutely no scripts
  106. # [00:59] <Philip`> To be more precise, I should say the sample of SVGs from Wikipedia is representative of all the SVGs on Wikipedia
  107. # [01:00] <sicking> Philip`, but in general i would expect SVG in general to have far less scripts
  108. # [01:00] * gsnedders hopes Hixie saw his latest tweet (from six hours ago), seeming he made it just for him :P
  109. # [01:00] <Philip`> but probably not representative of all other sane collections of SVGs that one might imagine
  110. # [01:00] <Philip`> (I tried looking for SVGs on the web via 130K pages from dmoz.org, but found a grand total of about 1, so that's not a good way of getting a different sample)
  111. # [01:00] <Hixie> gsnedders: i don't watch twitter closely
  112. # [01:01] <gsnedders> Hixie: "At a station with semaphores."
  113. # [01:01] <Hixie> Philip`: yeah my own research for svg using the google corpus didn't find a useful set of files
  114. # [01:01] <Hixie> gsnedders: heh, britain. how quaint. :-P
  115. # [01:02] <gsnedders> (The station I got off had electric signals!11!!!!eleventy!!!)
  116. # [01:03] <Philip`> sicking: My sample of 300 from Wikipedia has zero with scripting; http://codedread.com/ has one SVG with scripting; therefore SVGs outside Wikipedia definitely have more scripting than those on Wikipedia :-)
  117. # [01:03] * Quits: Kuruma (n=Kuruman@www1664.sakura.ne.jp) (Remote closed the connection)
  118. # [01:03] <sicking> Philip`, indeed
  119. # [01:03] <sicking> Philip`, though technically speaking not statistically significant difference. I think
  120. # [01:03] <sicking> :)
  121. # [01:04] <Philip`> sicking: The difference between 0 and 1 is infinity percent, so it must be significant!
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  124. # [01:10] <sicking> Hixie, btw, I also suggest that we support <!CDATA[ ]]> everwhere where we parse PCDATA and RCDATA. Due to goal 2 above. Sounded like Operas experiment in this area is that it doesn't break the web. But it's an orthogonal discussion to the one we're having now so I wasn't going to raise it until after
  125. # [01:12] * Joins: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com)
  126. # [01:14] <annevk3> sicking, actually, we encountered issues with supporting <![CDATA[
  127. # [01:14] <sicking> annevk3, big enough that you removed the support?
  128. # [01:14] <annevk3> sicking, I don't think we have yet, but I think we should
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  130. # [01:15] <sicking> annevk3, why not, and why?
  131. # [01:15] * Joins: ginger (n=nessy@124-171-38-148.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  132. # [01:15] <annevk3> because it causes issues and supporting CDATA has no real benefit
  133. # [01:15] * Philip` hopes that if Opera doesn't remove CDATA support, they at least make it less insane
  134. # [01:16] <sicking> annevk3, i doubt you'll ever find a feature that you can deploy without any issues. The most recent example we had was a site breaking because we implemented document.readyState
  135. # [01:16] <annevk3> sicking, but CDATA is not a feature, it's near useless
  136. # [01:16] <sicking> annevk3, since we'll have to support <![CDATA[]]> inside SVG, I think the consistency would be nice
  137. # [01:17] <annevk3> maybe, I'd rather remove it there too
  138. # [01:17] <annevk3> (also Opera's current CDATA support doesn't match the HTML5 spec)
  139. # [01:18] <sicking> annevk3, i'd be supportive of that if we think there isn't much existing SVG content that uses it. In other words, if we don't think it'd affect the ability to copy SVG into HTML
  140. # [01:20] <annevk3> there's very little SVG so that's pretty hard to tell
  141. # [01:21] <annevk3> I don't recall ever needing it in any SVG content I've created, but then I mostly do simple things
  142. # [01:22] <Philip`> http://philip.html5.org/misc/spec-links-anim.svgz
  143. # [01:22] <Philip`> That's got a script, but doesn't use CDATA
  144. # [01:23] * Quits: nessy (n=nessy@124-168-165-203.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
  145. # [01:24] <Philip`> Hmm, why does View Source in Firefox 3 go unbelievably slowly on that SVG file?
  146. # [01:24] * Joins: pauld (n=pauld@host86-133-17-49.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
  147. # [01:24] <Philip`> If the script had to use < or & then I probably would have put it in <![CDATA[]]>
  148. # [01:24] <Philip`> but it didn't so I didn't
  149. # [01:25] <sicking> have a good weekend people
  150. # [01:25] <Philip`> Yikes, FF3 uses about 400MB of RAM to view-source on that page :-/
  151. # [01:26] * olliej opens in S4
  152. # [01:26] * olliej wonders how badly it will fair
  153. # [01:26] <sicking> Philip`, view-source will always use more memory than the actual page
  154. # [01:27] * Quits: ginger (n=nessy@124-171-38-148.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  155. # [01:27] <olliej> memory seems to have peaked at ~600mb :-O
  156. # [01:27] * olliej wonders wtf is happening
  157. # [01:27] <sicking> Philip`, it doesn't use any entities either though, so should work find
  158. # [01:27] <sicking> fine even
  159. # [01:28] * Quits: sicking (n=chatzill@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5b4pre/20090317114959]")
  160. # [01:28] <annevk3> what's the advantage of toTempURL over toDataURL? working around IE bugs?
  161. # [01:29] <Dashiva> That's how I understood it
  162. # [01:29] <annevk3> feature design 101: don't propose a new feature to work around UA bugs in an existing feature
  163. # [01:29] <Dashiva> Not sure why supporting toTempURL would be easier than fixing data urls
  164. # [01:30] <Philip`> I think the idea is that you should be able to say img.src = canvas.toSomeKindOfThingThatWorksInImgSrc() and have it work in browsers that don't support data URIs
  165. # [01:30] <annevk3> Philip`, right, see above
  166. # [01:31] <annevk3> nn
  167. # [01:31] <Philip`> Dashiva: Because you can't fix data URIs in IE6
  168. # [01:31] <Philip`> (I assume)
  169. # [01:32] <Dashiva> But can you fix toTempURL in IE6?
  170. # [01:32] * Quits: pauld (n=pauld@host86-133-17-49.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
  171. # [01:32] <Philip`> If you're writing a plugin or add-on or whatever it is, then you presumably can
  172. # [01:33] <Philip`> since you can save the canvas data to disk and then use file:/// to refer to it
  173. # [01:33] <Philip`> or you can register a protocol handler for customHandler://
  174. # [01:34] <Dashiva> Register a protocol handler for data:, feed the contents?
  175. # [01:34] <Philip`> I've got no idea whether you can do that
  176. # [01:34] <Philip`> (If you could, it'd be bad in terms of IE-compatibility with other sites that uses data: URIs)
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  178. # [01:50] <hdh> (defun last-heading () (search-backward-regexp "C-x C-f") (match-string 0)) (setq mode-line-format '(:eval (last-heading)))
  179. # [01:50] <hdh> idk how to plug the eval part into the existing modeline
  180. # [01:50] <hdh> the text seems to keep its formatting in the matched buffer
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  187. # [02:10] <Hixie> hdh: interesting
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  268. # [12:29] <benh_> Historical question: does anyone know why HTML4 deprecated u, s, strike, but not b/i/big/small, even though it discouraged the later? What was special about u/s/strike?
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  290. # [14:03] <annevk3> Hixie, s/buu can/but can/
  291. # [14:03] <annevk3> Hixie, s/is can be/can be/
  292. # [14:05] <annevk3> Hixie, s/sections that cause/sections cause/ (I think, the sentence does not seem correct otherwise)
  293. # [14:07] <annevk3> Hixie, "For each <span>cache host</span> associated with an <span>application cache</span>" Isn't a cache host always associated with one?
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  307. # [16:10] <annevk3> Gmail on a message I sent: "4:06 PM (-1 minutes ago)"
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  316. # [16:58] <Andrii> annevk3: google invented the time machine, cutting edge technology
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  329. # [17:59] <Hixie> annevk3: please send mail for feedback, pleeeeease. :-)
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  340. # [18:33] <annevk3> Hixie, next time or also for those four lines?
  341. # [18:33] <annevk3> IRC is convenient, there's less UI involved
  342. # [18:34] <Dashiva> I'm betting he wants the paper trail
  343. # [18:36] <Philip`> He prints out emails?
  344. # [18:37] * Joins: pauld (n=pauld@host86-133-17-49.range86-133.btcentralplus.com)
  345. # [18:37] <Philip`> Someone needs to make an IRC bot which lets you say "!feedback s/buu can/but can/" and it will automatically send an email to Hixie
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  349. # [18:43] <krijnh> Doesn't need to be an IRC bot, since all the logs are available as HTML as well :)
  350. # [18:44] <Philip`> krijnh: Good point :-)
  351. # [18:45] <Philip`> krijnh: If you could change your log processor to let us embed RDF in our IRC messages that will get translated into RDFa in the logs, then we could write a simple RDFa-based tool to automatically extract all the feedback and email it
  352. # [18:45] <annevk3> yeah, and with enough annotation everything gets done automatically
  353. # [18:46] <Dashiva> That reminds me of joel's post about spec writing
  354. # [18:47] <Dashiva> "And then some people go into a dark place where they imagine automatically generating implementations from specs, and think they have invented a way to program without programming" (by memory)
  355. # [18:47] * gsnedders starts implementing parse errors in html5lib php
  356. # [18:48] <takkaria> parse errors are overrated
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  358. # [19:00] <annevk3> gsnedders, why do you need parse errors? isn't a treebuilder more useful?
  359. # [19:00] <gsnedders> annevk3: Trying to finish Tokenizer first before moving on
  360. # [19:02] * Joins: kangax (n=kangax@ool-182f8118.dyn.optonline.net)
  361. # [19:07] * gsnedders returns to the point where more than 50% of tests pass
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  370. # [19:48] <gsnedders> Weeee… 23 tests failing now
  371. # [19:49] <Philip`> Delete those tests, then you'll pass 100%
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  374. # [19:54] <gsnedders> 14% perf. regression from throwing parse errors
  375. # [19:55] <Philip`> In a document that has no parse errors?
  376. # [19:55] <gsnedders> Yeah
  377. # [19:55] <gsnedders> (i.e., the spec)
  378. # [19:56] <takkaria> ouch
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  380. # [19:57] <takkaria> I'm not sure hubbub is ever going to have parse error reporting
  381. # [19:58] <gsnedders> 12.0s is still a massive improvement over the 48s it was a week ago
  382. # [19:58] <takkaria> sure :)
  383. # [20:00] * gsnedders runs with profiler
  384. # [20:00] <gsnedders> (This takes it back to around 50s :P)
  385. # [20:02] <Philip`> You need to multithread your tokeniser
  386. # [20:03] <gsnedders> Multi-threading in PHP? :P
  387. # [20:03] <Philip`> Shouldn't be too hard to just split the input document into n pieces, and speculatively parse the last n-1, and discards any results that are invalidated by the tokeniser state at the end of the previous section
  388. # [20:08] <jgraham> Philip`: presumably you would end up being wrong a lot of the time
  389. # [20:08] <jgraham> Which seems bad
  390. # [20:09] <Philip`> jgraham: You could scan forwards to the next '>' and assume you're now going to be in the data state, which is likely to be right quite often
  391. # [20:10] <takkaria> is it?
  392. # [20:10] <Philip`> and if you were in a <script> or something then you make sure you've kept enough state so you can sync up once you've reached the </script>
  393. # [20:10] <jgraham> Hmm. You're making this sound surprisingly reasonable
  394. # [20:10] <Philip`> Really?
  395. # [20:10] <Philip`> That wasn't my intent
  396. # [20:10] <jgraham> Which suggests that you're misleading me somehow
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  399. # [20:13] <Philip`> takkaria: I suppose it should be fairly easy to instrument a tokeniser to report how often it sees '>' when it's in the data state (and PCDATA, and no escape flag)
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  401. # [20:17] <Philip`> Does Python have a multiprocessing thing nowadays that isn't unbearably hard to use efficiently?
  402. # [20:17] <gsnedders> Philip`: Yes, multiprocessing
  403. # [20:17] <Philip`> Ah, sounds good
  404. # [20:17] <Philip`> Maybe html5lib should do this! :-)
  405. # [20:18] <gsnedders> Will all zero users of php-html5lib kill me if I make 23 test cases fail?
  406. # [20:19] <annevk3> we should make error reporting optional in the tests
  407. # [20:19] <annevk3> or flag tests that rely on error reporting
  408. # [20:19] <Philip`> That's easy
  409. # [20:19] <Philip`> if 'ParseError' in expected_tokens: it relies on error reporting
  410. # [20:19] <annevk3> it seems to me that the PHP parser is not intended for building a validator so it should just not do it and be fast :)
  411. # [20:20] <Philip`> and you could just strip out all the ParseErrors when comparing your tokeniser against the test result
  412. # [20:20] <annevk3> yeah, I guess that's the best way
  413. # [20:20] <annevk3> you still want to test error handling
  414. # [20:21] <gsnedders> Yeah, that's what it currently does, for a few more minutes at least
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  416. # [20:22] <gsnedders> annevk3: I'd disagree that it is irrelevant. You might want to only allow valid comments on my blog. Oh, wait, you already do.
  417. # [20:23] <annevk3> i wouldn't mind syntax errors actually
  418. # [20:23] <takkaria> gsnedders: testcases failing is bad, mmkay
  419. # [20:23] <annevk3> i'd just validate the tree
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  421. # [20:23] <annevk3> validate the tree based on some whitelists
  422. # [20:23] <Philip`> Someone should make a blog comment CAPTCHA system which presents you with a random word (just in plain text) and requires you to use it in a grammatically-correct sentence in your comment
  423. # [20:24] <gsnedders> takkaria: All failures are due to the parse errors, and one of them is somewhat questionable (I'd argue that the test case relies on impl. specific behaviour)
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  428. # [20:46] <olliej> Philip`: heheh
  429. # [20:47] <gsnedders> Philip`: How do you determine whether a sentence is grammatically correct?
  430. # [20:52] <Philip`> gsnedders: Mechanical Turk
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  432. # [21:01] <Niictar> But... couldm
  433. # [21:02] <Niictar> But... couldn't a bot be programmed to generate a non-sensicial but grammatically correct sentence after doing a dictionary lookup of the word in question?
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  435. # [21:03] <Niictar> Or, just quote a sentence example straight out of said dictionary? :P
  436. # [21:08] <olliej> Niictar: sssh
  437. # [21:08] <olliej> Niictar: although that captcha might be fairly good for filtering out most reddit/digg/youtube commenters :D
  438. # [21:09] <Niictar> =D
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  443. # [21:43] <gsnedders> "It quite clearly shows that Humbert Hubmert does \emph{not} love Lolita." — Discuss.
  444. # [21:43] <gsnedders> :P
  445. # [21:44] <Philip`> s/Hubmert/Humbert/
  446. # [21:44] * gsnedders is typing quickly damnit!
  447. # [21:46] <Dashiva> If you reversed the grammar captcha, it could work well for sites where real users are inable to write properly, whereas a bot would be too successful
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  449. # [21:51] * Parts: erlehmann (n=erlehman@86.59.25.121)
  450. # [21:55] * Quits: zalan (n=kvirc@catv-80-99-193-98.catv.broadband.hu) ("KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/")
  451. # [21:57] * Joins: sid0 (n=sid0@unaffiliated/sid0)
  452. # [21:57] * Joins: webben_ (n=benh@91.85.204.41)
  453. # [22:03] * Quits: taf2_ (n=taf2@static-71-127-149-10.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net)
  454. # [22:05] * gsnedders makes another tweet exactly 140 characters long
  455. # [22:05] <gsnedders> (And 142 bytes)
  456. # [22:06] * Quits: webben (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  457. # [22:09] * Quits: sid0_ (n=sid0@unaffiliated/sid0) (Remote closed the connection)
  458. # [22:13] * Joins: mpilgrim_ (n=mark@67.217.134.48)
  459. # [22:18] <jwalden> gsnedders: is the limit 140 characters or 140 code points?
  460. # [22:20] <gsnedders> jwalden: It appears to apply NFC
  461. # [22:20] * mpilgrim is now known as Guest96328
  462. # [22:21] * mpilgrim_ is now known as mpilgrim
  463. # [22:21] <gsnedders> (So my first test failed)
  464. # [22:21] * Quits: Guest96328 (n=mark@67.217.134.48) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  465. # Session Close: Sun Mar 29 00:00:00 2009

The end :)