/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-04-29 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Apr 29 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  30. # [00:56] <mathuin> What is the best way to normalize all the tags in a BeautifulSoup tree generated by html5lib? Some files I use have tags like 'dc:Title', others 'dc:title' so I'd like to force all tags to lower case. Do I use a sanitizer or something else?
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  38. # [01:23] <Hixie> i really wish Kristof could quote context
  39. # [01:23] <Hixie> i never have any idea wtf his e-mails are about
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  113. # [06:22] <Hixie> heycam: yt?
  114. # [06:22] <heycam> Hixie, yep
  115. # [06:22] <Hixie> heycam: in webidl you have the following example:
  116. # [06:22] <Hixie> map[1] = false;
  117. # [06:22] <Hixie> ...which sets a property named "1"
  118. # [06:23] <Hixie> what happens if the indexed properties are automatically set from 0..length-1
  119. # [06:23] <Hixie> and you set map[0] = true;
  120. # [06:23] <Hixie> and then fetch map[0]
  121. # [06:23] <Hixie> if you see what i mean
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  123. # [06:23] <Hixie> sorry, i'm not expressing myself well
  124. # [06:24] <heycam> sorry i didn't understand :)
  125. # [06:24] <Hixie> heycam: the concern comes from the Storage object, where you can get the keys by index, and then index into the keys to get the values
  126. # [06:24] <Hixie> heycam: there is a clash if someone sets the key "0" and then fetches the property "0" -- it'll return "0" because that's the name of the key
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  128. # [06:24] <Hixie> but then if you fetch the property "0", you'll still just get "0", not the value of the key "0"
  129. # [06:25] <Hixie> because the keys and the indexes are in the same namespace
  130. # [06:25] <Hixie> i'm wondering whether to ban numeric keys to get around this
  131. # [06:25] <Hixie> or to just say "tough"
  132. # [06:25] <heycam> Hixie, i see what you mean now
  133. # [06:25] <heycam> perhaps that isn't good design to have numeric values also be valid key names
  134. # [06:26] <Hixie> yeah
  135. # [06:26] <heycam> and to have the property getting be the way to access both key name and key value
  136. # [06:26] <Hixie> what syntax should i disallow?
  137. # [06:26] <Hixie> [1-9][0-9]* ?
  138. # [06:26] <heycam> um
  139. # [06:27] <heycam> i *think*
  140. # [06:27] <Hixie> as in, indexes matching that regexp
  141. # [06:27] <heycam> you mean keys?
  142. # [06:27] <Hixie> right sorry
  143. # [06:27] <heycam> whatever es232 says for how it distinguishes indexes vs names for Array objects
  144. # [06:28] <heycam> which i think works out to [1-9][0-9]*, where the value is < 2**32 - 1
  145. # [06:28] <heycam> (and note the < there rather than <=)
  146. # [06:29] <heycam> that same distinguishing is done in the webidl [[Put]], to determine whether to invoke the index or name getters/setters
  147. # [06:29] <heycam> actually no that last statement is false
  148. # [06:29] <heycam> it uses the "names of named properties" etc. for that
  149. # [06:30] <Hixie> yeah i had looked there
  150. # [06:30] <heycam> er s/232/262/ earlier
  151. # [06:31] <heycam> http://bclary.com/2004/11/07/#a-15.4.5.1
  152. # [06:31] <heycam> oh, it just says "If P is not an array index"...
  153. # [06:31] <heycam> http://bclary.com/2004/11/07/#a-15.4
  154. # [06:31] <heycam> A property name P (in the form of a string value) is an array index if and only if ToString(ToUint32(P)) is equal to P and ToUint32(P) is not equal to 232 - 1.
  155. # [06:32] <heycam> (thats 2**32 - 1 at the end)
  156. # [06:32] <heycam> so i think that's equivalent to matching the string against [1-9][0-9]* and ensuring it's < 2**32 - 1
  157. # [06:33] <Hixie> yeah i found that, i thought you had already seen it when you said the 2**32 - 1 thing :-)
  158. # [06:33] <heycam> yeah i had, but ages ago...
  159. # [06:33] <heycam> :)
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  161. # [06:35] * heycam brb coffee
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  163. # [06:40] <Hixie> heycam: [[Put]] is broken, as far as i can tell.
  164. # [06:41] <Hixie> oh wait
  165. # [06:41] <Hixie> no it isn't
  166. # [06:41] <Hixie> i've just been really confused about how named properties should be defined
  167. # [06:42] <Hixie> maybe not
  168. # [06:42] <heycam> it's possible it's broken
  169. # [06:43] <heycam> i really should make it a structured algorithm instead of a big 40-step flat one!
  170. # [06:43] <Hixie> heycam: if i have an empty Storage object, are there any "names of the supported named properties"?
  171. # [06:43] <heycam> it is just up to how you define the "names of the supported named properties"
  172. # [06:43] <heycam> btw, if you can come up with better terminology for those things, i'm open to suggestions :)
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  174. # [06:44] <Hixie> heycam: i don't understand "it is just up to how you define the "names of the supported named properties""
  175. # [06:45] <heycam> got a pointer to the spec?
  176. # [06:45] <Hixie> which?
  177. # [06:45] <heycam> Storage?
  178. # [06:46] <Hixie> http://dev.w3.org/html5/webstorage/ but i'm more concerned about what the spec _should_ say
  179. # [06:46] <heycam> right, i just want to work out what it's trying to say first
  180. # [06:46] <heycam> so you have this statement in there at the moment: "The names of the supported named properties on a Storage object are the keys of each key/value pair currently present in the list associated with the object."
  181. # [06:46] <heycam> so if the list associated with the object is empty, then there'll be no named properties
  182. # [06:47] <heycam> oh sorry i think i misinterpreted your question earlier
  183. # [06:47] <heycam> i thought you were saying "how do you say that there are no names of the supported named properties"
  184. # [06:47] <heycam> so the answer to your actual question is: no
  185. # [06:48] * heycam back in a couplea minutes, coffee is brewed!
  186. # [06:49] <Hixie> ok if the answer is no then: How do I ever get to [NameCreator] given the definition of [[Put]]?
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  188. # [06:53] <heycam> the answer (it seems) is that you can't
  189. # [06:53] <heycam> so you're right, it's buggy
  190. # [06:53] <Hixie> woo, i win
  191. # [06:53] <heycam> ^_^
  192. # [06:53] <heycam> similarly for indexes too
  193. # [06:54] <heycam> i'll make a note in the spec to fix later
  194. # [06:54] <Hixie> so the reason i was looking there is i was hoping that you would automatically dispatch to [NameCreator] or [IndexCreator] based on what we discussed earlier
  195. # [06:54] <Hixie> and _not_ have them fallback to each other
  196. # [06:54] <heycam> ah i see
  197. # [06:54] <Hixie> so that all i have to do to fix Storage is only add [NameCreator] and not add [IndexCreator]
  198. # [06:55] <heycam> ok. so that might be better, to distinguish between indexes and names like that.
  199. # [06:55] <Hixie> cool
  200. # [06:55] <heycam> i wonder about things like the data-* attribute interface tho
  201. # [06:55] <heycam> where there are only names, effectively
  202. # [06:55] <Hixie> i was about to add IndexCreator to that
  203. # [06:55] <heycam> and you want numbers to work there too
  204. # [06:55] <heycam> ok
  205. # [06:55] <Hixie> NameGetter and NameSetter can still work as now
  206. # [06:56] <Hixie> since they work from a fixed list
  207. # [06:56] <heycam> yeah you could just have both index properties and name properties defer to the same abstract list of items
  208. # [06:56] <Hixie> well as written now the spec already handles name properties that are numbers and already avoids clashes if you have both
  209. # [06:56] <heycam> ok i think that makes more sense, rather than making other spec writers worry about confusion of indexes/names
  210. # [06:57] <Hixie> so for DOMStringMap we're agreed that all I need is [NameCreator, IndexCreator, NameDeleter, NameGetter, NameSetter] interface DOMStringMap {}
  211. # [06:57] <Hixie> and some prose
  212. # [06:57] <Hixie> right?
  213. # [06:57] <heycam> hum, no
  214. # [06:58] <heycam> not if i changed it to distinguish between indexes and names more strongly
  215. # [06:58] <Hixie> i would only have it distinguish for creation
  216. # [06:58] <heycam> you mean, as written?
  217. # [06:58] <heycam> (assuming the bugs for getting to the creators were fixed?)
  218. # [06:58] <Hixie> yes
  219. # [06:58] <heycam> ok so you don't want to force indexes and names apart?
  220. # [06:59] <heycam> except for the creators?
  221. # [06:59] <Hixie> right
  222. # [06:59] <Hixie> exactly
  223. # [06:59] <heycam> ok
  224. # [06:59] <Hixie> i think that's what's easiest for spec authors, anyway
  225. # [06:59] <Hixie> probably easiest for you too :-)
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  227. # [06:59] <Hixie> you already do the work of making sure that indexed properties win over named properties in case both are there
  228. # [06:59] <Hixie> so there's no clash other than with creation, which right now is buggy adn makes no sense
  229. # [06:59] <heycam> do i?
  230. # [06:59] <heycam> i thought it was the other way around
  231. # [06:59] <Hixie> yeah
  232. # [07:00] <Hixie> oh i didn't check which wins
  233. # [07:00] <Hixie> yeah i guess named wins
  234. # [07:00] <heycam> right, named wins
  235. # [07:00] <heycam> and i think i chose that because of how some html interfaces happened to work
  236. # [07:00] <heycam> collections or something
  237. # [07:01] <Hixie> hmmm
  238. # [07:02] <Hixie> i wonder whether i care for Storage
  239. # [07:02] <Hixie> because if it's that way, then it doesn't really matter if we distinguish namecreator and indexcreator
  240. # [07:02] <Hixie> we can just always have namecreator run, and i don't need to worry about preventing numeric keys being added
  241. # [07:02] <Hixie> since it'll still work
  242. # [07:03] <heycam> so: if there's no indexcreator, then a property named "1" would still invoke the namecreator?
  243. # [07:03] <Hixie> i guess
  244. # [07:03] <Hixie> yeah
  245. # [07:03] <Hixie> i guess you'd give numbers to the indexcreator if there is one
  246. # [07:03] <heycam> mm
  247. # [07:03] <Hixie> and if there isn't, just fall back to namecreator
  248. # [07:03] <heycam> i guess that'd work
  249. # [07:03] <heycam> it's not *too* confusing
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  251. # [07:04] <heycam> *ahem* do you mind if you mail public-webapps with exactly what you want?
  252. # [07:05] <Hixie> sure
  253. # [07:05] <heycam> i fear i'll get confused and do something else, otherwise :)
  254. # [07:07] <heycam> thanks
  255. # [07:09] <Hixie> sent
  256. # [07:10] <heycam> cool
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  270. # [08:06] <Hixie> Philip`: yt?
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  292. # [09:17] <Philip`> Hixie: Yes
  293. # [09:18] <Hixie> it was about the shadows
  294. # [09:18] <Hixie> i sent e-mail instead
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  299. # [09:28] <annevk5> Hixie, any chance you can get to my webstorage feedback soonish?
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  302. # [09:38] <Philip`> Hixie: I hope there wasn't anything in that e-mail I was meant to respond to
  303. # [09:42] <Hixie> annevk5: i can reply to them now if you want
  304. # [09:42] <Hixie> annevk5: are they all [webstorage]?
  305. # [09:42] <annevk5> Hixie, yes
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  307. # [09:55] <Hixie> annevk5: 'storage' doesn't really enable fork bombing any more than postMessage() does
  308. # [09:55] <Hixie> annevk5: it's just an amplification effect
  309. # [09:55] <Hixie> annevk5: you could do the same thing with, say, mutation events (do two mutations per event)
  310. # [09:55] <Hixie> unless i misunderstand something
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  319. # [10:33] <Hixie> annevk2: done
  320. # [10:34] <Hixie> Philip`: not really
  321. # [10:37] <Hixie> zcorpan_: it seems like the best solution might be to get rid of MEDIA_ERR_NONE_SUPPORTED altogether and _only_ use the error events on the source elements
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  324. # [10:43] <annevk2> Hixie, fair enough I suppose
  325. # [10:43] <annevk2> Hixie, and thanks
  326. # [10:47] <zcorpan_> Hixie: hmm. yeah, maybe. for src="" you would fire error on the <video>?
  327. # [10:47] <Hixie> yeah, seems reasonable
  328. # [10:47] <zcorpan_> Hixie: authors would then have to listen on error on the last <source>, which seems ok
  329. # [10:47] <Hixie> yeah
  330. # [10:48] <zcorpan_> ok. philipj agreed
  331. # [10:51] <zcorpan_> there'd be asymmetry with 'load', but maybe that's ok
  332. # [10:52] <zcorpan_> Hixie: should i send email?
  333. # [10:52] <Hixie> nah s'ok i got it
  334. # [10:52] <zcorpan_> ok
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  342. # [11:10] <Hixie> zcorpan_: i'll do it tomorrow, getting too tired to work out how to solve the race condition problem he brought up in that other mail
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  377. # [14:30] <Philip`> jgraham: Your recent email doesn't link to the right URL for data
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  380. # [14:36] <jgraham> Philip`: Oh. Oops
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  387. # [15:02] * Philip` wonders if jgraham is planning to post an erratum for that issue
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  394. # [15:38] * jgraham didn't think that anyone would be interested enough but he can post an erratum if Philip` likes
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  396. # [15:51] <Philip`> jgraham: Presumably you thought it was worthwhile including the link with your original mail, so I guess it would be similarly worthwhile to include the correct link in a followup
  397. # [15:53] * Philip` discovers PGF/TikZ, which is surprisingly nice
  398. # [15:53] <Philip`> ...as a declarative way of constructing diagrams in LaTeX
  399. # [15:57] * Joins: cryzed (n=cryzed@i53870733.versanet.de)
  400. # [15:57] <cryzed> Hey
  401. # [15:57] <cryzed> I'm just here to ask if you could fix the following
  402. # [15:57] <cryzed> html5lib/inputstream.py:448: DeprecationWarning: object.__init__() takes no parameters
  403. # [15:57] <cryzed> str.__init__(self, value)
  404. # [15:57] <cryzed> Or would that brack compatibility with python 2.5.4?
  405. # [15:57] <cryzed> I'm using 2.6.2
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  408. # [16:07] * Philip` isn't sure whether it's currently possible to fix anything in html5lib, or if its source repository is too much in flux to risk committing any changes
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  411. # [16:21] <jgraham> cryzed: I remember fixing that for the python 3 branch. So I guess it would be good to fix it on trunk now :)
  412. # [16:21] <jgraham> Philip`: It should be stable now I think
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  415. # [16:23] <jgraham> But I guess you should sithc to using hg
  416. # [16:23] <jgraham> *switch
  417. # [16:25] <cryzed> So basically
  418. # [16:25] <cryzed> a hg source grab
  419. # [16:25] <cryzed> should do the trick now?
  420. # [16:27] <jgraham> cryzed: In theory :)
  421. # [16:27] <cryzed> okay, thanks :)
  422. # [16:27] <cryzed> When are you going to make the next "official" release?
  423. # [16:27] * Joins: ossud (n=chatzill@p54AC5B81.dip.t-dialin.net)
  424. # [16:28] <cryzed> And on the google-code-homepage the following is mentioned: Support for minidom, ElementTree (including cElementTree and lxml.etree), BeautifulSoup and custom simpletree output formats
  425. # [16:28] <cryzed> I don't know minidom, and simpletree
  426. # [16:28] <cryzed> Is there any info about them?
  427. # [16:30] <ossud> hi! if i write you guys an email everytime i find an error in the html5 page ... wouldn't that annoy you ?
  428. # [16:30] <jgraham> cryzed: minidom is the python stdlib implementation of DOM Core
  429. # [16:31] <jgraham> It kinda sucks
  430. # [16:31] <jgraham> simpletree was a throaway tree implemntation I wrote to test html5lib
  431. # [16:31] <cryzed> So it's shitty? :D
  432. # [16:31] <ossud> btw... is there a better way of letting you know about this ?
  433. # [16:31] <cryzed> ossud, you can report bugs
  434. # [16:31] <cryzed> ossud, @ the google code page
  435. # [16:31] <cryzed> ossud, the "Bug Tracker"
  436. # [16:32] <cryzed> jgraham, do you know what I would absolutetely love? :D
  437. # [16:32] <cryzed> jgraham, A mix of BeautifulSoup and lxml.html etree
  438. # [16:32] <cryzed> jgraham, Allowing you the flexibility of BeautifulSoup while Supporting more advanced stuff
  439. # [16:32] <cryzed> like XPath
  440. # [16:33] <ossud> there are only like 2 issues in html5 O_o
  441. # [16:33] <ossud> (on google code)
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  445. # [16:37] <ossud> how can i get into html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker ?
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  458. # [16:52] <jgraham> cryzed: Yeah, you don't want to use simpletreee for anything. Even though it is the default tree type
  459. # [16:52] <jgraham> Dunno what to do about that though because you don't want to use minidom for anything either
  460. # [16:52] <jgraham> and nothing else comes with the stdlib
  461. # [16:53] <jgraham> Actually I guess I could make ElementTree the default. I wonder how many people would complain
  462. # [16:53] <jgraham> ossud: What bugs do you want to report? Bugs in the spec?
  463. # [16:56] <ossud> mostly typos ^^
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  465. # [16:57] <ossud> *in the spec
  466. # [16:57] * Joins: pauld (n=pauld@host81-158-125-194.range81-158.btcentralplus.com)
  467. # [16:58] <jgraham> ossud: You can either use the w3c.org bugzilla or use the mailing list. I guess one typo per email is not very friendly though :)
  468. # [16:58] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  469. # [16:59] <ossud> the w3c bugzilla?? how cool is that! :)
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  471. # [16:59] <cryzed> jgraham, I really like the BeautifulSoup tree though :P
  472. # [17:00] * Joins: roc (n=roc@65.123.0.210)
  473. # [17:00] <cryzed> jgraham, It's just very hard to correctly extract whole paragraphs of text out of webapges with the ElementTree API, while preserving the formatting and stripping the html tags
  474. # [17:03] <gsnedders> Oh stupid slow intarwebs!
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  477. # [17:04] <jgraham> cryzed: html5lib really needs a maintainer for the BeautifulSoup api
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  480. # [17:05] <cryzed> jgraham, I don't really have any clue how BS works internally
  481. # [17:05] <cryzed> jgraham, I just like to use it :D
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  483. # [17:06] <jgraham> cryzed: So on a list of ideal candidates you score 1/2 whereas I score 0/2 and I wrote the treebuilder
  484. # [17:06] <cryzed> jgraham, haha ^^
  485. # [17:06] <jgraham> (does BS support namespaces?)
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  487. # [17:06] <cryzed> what do you mean exactly
  488. # [17:06] <cryzed> with namespaces?
  489. # [17:06] <jgraham> The ability to have elements in differnt namespaces
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  492. # [17:09] <jgraham> like to put an element called svg in a namespace identified by the URI http://www.w3.org/2000/svg
  493. # [17:12] <cryzed> I've got no clue actually
  494. # [17:12] <cryzed> oO
  495. # [17:13] <jgraham> If not, it will be "fun" to get it to work with MathML/SVG. Can probably use Clarke notation and just live with the suckiness or something though
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  497. # [17:13] * riven` is now known as riven
  498. # [17:14] <cryzed> jgraham, btw, I'm still getting
  499. # [17:14] <cryzed> the error
  500. # [17:14] <cryzed> with the newest hg checkout
  501. # [17:14] <cryzed> DeprecationWarning: object.__init__() takes no parameters
  502. # [17:14] <cryzed> str.__init__(self, value)
  503. # [17:14] <cryzed> Or rather warning
  504. # [17:14] <jgraham> cryzed: I didn't apply the patch yet
  505. # [17:15] <cryzed> oh
  506. # [17:15] <cryzed> shoot
  507. # [17:15] <cryzed> Could you? ;D?
  508. # [17:19] <Philip`> jgraham: http://www.crummy.com/2009/04/09/0 - "I'll be writing an html5lib tree builder and packaging it and the lxml builder in Beautiful Soup" - he's probably a good person to be maintainer
  509. # [17:21] <Philip`> gsnedders: Better than the intarwebs here, which are currently lacking all the normal intar functionality because of power cuts and not-very-good UPSes
  510. # [17:21] <Philip`> (unless they've fixed it already)
  511. # [17:22] <Philip`> (which I guess they have, since I can access the box sitting at my feet via London)
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  513. # [17:23] <jgraham> cryzed: Try now
  514. # [17:24] <cryzed> kk
  515. # [17:24] <Philip`> The commit mail's subject line is horrid
  516. # [17:25] <Philip`> [html5lib push] 77f13a977be6f47a9724ee5dbfee756eaf12317e - Fix deprecation warning
  517. # [17:25] <gsnedders> Philip`: We had no network/internet at school yesterday because the other side of the split-site school had no power.
  518. # [17:25] <Philip`> I want to see the actual commit message in my mail client's little pop-up alert box, not forty hex digits
  519. # [17:26] <gsnedders> But how else will you know what revision it is!?
  520. # [17:26] <Philip`> It should make up a monotonically increasing integer and use that as the revision number
  521. # [17:27] <jgraham> Forty hex digits sitting on the wall, forty hex digits sitting on the wall, and if one hex digit should accidentially fall...
  522. # [17:28] <gsnedders> hg won't care.
  523. # [17:28] <Philip`> Hopefully the hex digit would pull its partner off the wall too
  524. # [17:29] <Philip`> because hex digits are aesthetically displeasing if they don't always come in pairs
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  528. # [17:38] <cryzed> jgraham, works
  529. # [17:38] <cryzed> jgraham, thanks
  530. # [17:38] <cryzed> jgraham, It's probably fully 2.6.2 compatible now
  531. # [17:38] <cryzed> :D
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  554. # [18:37] <Philip`> It's quite nice that they handle that situation sensibly, not by sending 508 emails or dropping them all entirely
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  628. # [20:44] <Hixie> ossud: send as much feedback as you like, one per e-mail or one big e-mail or anything in between, it doesn't matter it'll get treated the same in the end :-)
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  658. # [22:11] <Hixie> hsivonen: any particular examples you want in the parser section?
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  661. # [22:15] <jgraham> Unicode or Death?
  662. # [22:18] <Philip`> That's a tough choice
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  680. # [22:42] * Joins: riven (n=colin@53525B67.cable.casema.nl)
  681. # [22:48] * Quits: tantek (n=tantek@64.1.214.211)
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  683. # [23:07] * Joins: annevk5 (n=annevk@85.196.122.246)
  684. # [23:09] * Joins: slightlyoff_ (n=slightly@nat/google/x-a6b0eec9a00bdfbd)
  685. # [23:09] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  686. # [23:13] * Quits: dolske (n=dolske@firefox/developer/dolske)
  687. # [23:17] * Quits: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl) ("Disconnected...")
  688. # [23:17] * Quits: roc (n=roc@w229.z065106072.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net)
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  691. # [23:22] * Quits: mpilgrim (n=mark@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  692. # [23:23] * Quits: slightlyoff (n=slightly@nat/google/x-fdc92aa55171806e) (Connection timed out)
  693. # [23:24] * Joins: drostie (n=hopkins@5354256F.cable.casema.nl)
  694. # [23:24] * Quits: davidb_ (n=davidb@w229.z065106072.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net)
  695. # [23:27] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@64.1.214.211)
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  698. # [23:33] * Quits: wakaba (n=wakaba@EM114-51-13-237.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  700. # [23:34] * Quits: riven (n=colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  701. # [23:34] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  702. # [23:37] * Joins: riven (n=colin@53525B67.cable.casema.nl)
  703. # [23:39] * gsnedders wonders what anne and Lachy are tweeting
  704. # [23:41] <Lachy> gsnedders, 010101110110100001100001011101000011111100100000010110010110111101110101001000000110010001101111011011100010011101110100001000000111001101110000011001010110000101101011001000000110001001101001011011100110000101110010011110010011111100100001
  705. # [23:41] <gsnedders> Lachy: I got that. But why?
  706. # [23:44] * Quits: davidb (n=davidb@w229.z065106072.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net)
  707. # [23:47] <Lachy> gsnedders, you gotta be here with us in Oslo to understand why.
  708. # [23:47] <jgraham> That was much less funny than I had hoped. I guess I don't get the context
  709. # [23:47] * jgraham really should be asleep
  710. # [23:50] * Joins: davidb (n=davidb@w229.z065106072.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net)
  711. # [23:51] * Quits: davidb (n=davidb@w229.z065106072.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net) (Client Quit)
  712. # [23:55] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@nat/google/x-3d9b6811c7eeecf3)
  713. # [23:57] * Quits: slightlyoff_ (n=slightly@nat/google/x-a6b0eec9a00bdfbd) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  714. # Session Close: Thu Apr 30 00:00:01 2009

The end :)