/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-06-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 22 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  10. # [00:59] <Philip`> gsnedders: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20090621#l-155 in case you missed it earlier
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  39. # [03:57] <MikeSmith> hendry: 404 for http://natalian.org/archives/tag/mobile/feed/atom/
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  79. # [07:57] <billyjackass> is [Reflect] not part of WebIDL?
  80. # [07:57] <annevk5> not part of the current draft
  81. # [07:57] <annevk5> what does it do?
  82. # [07:58] <olliej> annevk2: check darin's recent email to webkit-dev
  83. # [07:58] <olliej> annevk2: i would guess billyjackass is referring to that
  84. # [07:58] <billyjackass> yeah
  85. # [07:59] <billyjackass> https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2009-June/008458.html
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  88. # [08:01] <MikeSmith> annevk5: see IDL at bottom of https://bugs.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=31632
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  90. # [08:01] <MikeSmith> would [Reflect] be a useful addition to Web IDL?
  91. # [08:02] <othermaciej> maybe!
  92. # [08:02] <othermaciej> it would save spec writers time
  93. # [08:02] <othermaciej> but it's kind of a layering violation
  94. # [08:02] <othermaciej> since it's so specific to DOM elements
  95. # [08:02] <MikeSmith> I see
  96. # [08:03] <MikeSmith> no heycam around.. would be interesting to hear his thoughts when he gets on
  97. # [08:03] <othermaciej> (assuming you mean the same Reflect we have added or are planning to add to WebKit's IDL)
  98. # [08:03] <annevk5> ah, so that's why Hixie uses the term "reflect"
  99. # [08:03] <othermaciej> no, we copied it from Hixie
  100. # [08:03] <annevk5> oh :)
  101. # [08:03] <othermaciej> we just didn't feel like writing the boilerplate code in C++ for every trivial reflection DOM wrapper
  102. # [08:03] <MikeSmith> othermaciej: yeah, the message from Darin to webkit-dev was what got me asking
  103. # [08:04] <annevk5> MikeSmith, that email, referenced bug, and patch referenced from the bug, do not mention reflect
  104. # [08:04] <annevk5> ah, but https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2009-June/008457.html does
  105. # [08:05] <othermaciej> yeah, Darin and I came up with that design
  106. # [08:05] <MikeSmith> annevk5: sorry, I guess the link I pasted was to the wrong e-mail message
  107. # [08:05] <othermaciej> it does seem like it would be a timesaver for markup language specs
  108. # [08:05] <othermaciej> to avoid the need to mention reflection in prose every time
  109. # [08:06] <othermaciej> but we are doing it to reduce the amount of handwritten code
  110. # [08:06] <MikeSmith> seems like other UA implementors might could find it useful for that too
  111. # [08:07] <MikeSmith> and would save words in the HTML5 spec at least
  112. # [08:07] <MikeSmith> maybe for SVG too?
  113. # [08:07] <annevk5> a few sentences
  114. # [08:07] <annevk5> though it would be neat if all specs used the same definitions, agreed
  115. # [08:08] <othermaciej> in general we'd like to get our IDL as close to Web IDL as possible
  116. # [08:08] <othermaciej> we may still need a few extra extended attributes for truly implementation-specific things
  117. # [08:11] * gsnedders comes back to life
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  120. # [08:16] <MikeSmith> / iht.com relies on id returning the empty string when no id is present.
  121. # [08:16] <MikeSmith> is an interesting comment
  122. # [08:16] <MikeSmith> heycam!
  123. # [08:17] <heycam> hi MikeSmith
  124. # [08:18] <MikeSmith> heycam: any thoughts on https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2009-June/008457.html ?
  125. # [08:18] <MikeSmith> as far as whether it'd be useful to add a standard mechanism for that to WebIDL?
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  127. # [08:21] <heycam> i suppose Web IDL doesn't really deal with elements
  128. # [08:22] <MikeSmith> yeah
  129. # [08:22] <MikeSmith> still, it's handy
  130. # [08:22] <othermaciej> when Darin originally proposed doing this in WebKit, I was hesitant because it seemed kind of layer-violating
  131. # [08:22] <heycam> yeah. maybe html 5 could mint that [Reflect] extended attribute.
  132. # [08:22] <othermaciej> on the other hand, it's going to be really convenient, allowing us to remove a lot of handwritten code
  133. # [08:22] <heycam> or Web DOM Core
  134. # [08:23] <othermaciej> it's less convenient from the spec perspective
  135. # [08:23] <othermaciej> Web DOM Core might be a good place if Web IDL is defined to be extensible in that way
  136. # [08:23] * gsnedders curses at olliej for spoiling the race for him on Twitter :P
  137. # [08:23] <MikeSmith> maybe a "WebIDL extensions for markup-language specifications" mini-spec?
  138. # [08:23] <heycam> Web IDL currently says "Extensions to language binding requirements can be specified using extended attributes that do not conflict with those defined in this document."
  139. # [08:24] <heycam> in its extensibility section
  140. # [08:24] <MikeSmith> ah, good
  141. # [08:24] <heycam> so i think such extensions are sanctioned
  142. # [08:25] <heycam> i guess it would just save a sentence per attribute ("The foo attribute reflects the foo content attribute" or whatever.)
  143. # [08:26] <othermaciej> it could also save multiple specs having to define what it means to reflect a content attribute
  144. # [08:26] <othermaciej> if, for instance, SVG ever cares to use Web IDL
  145. # [08:26] <heycam> yep
  146. # [08:26] <heycam> though many of SVG's reflections are more complex SVGAnimatedBlah things
  147. # [08:27] <othermaciej> SVG could probably use its own extended attribute for that
  148. # [08:27] <othermaciej> being reminded of the SVGAnimated interfaces makes me sad though
  149. # [08:27] <othermaciej> now I need a drink before bed
  150. # [08:28] <heycam> haha
  151. # [08:28] <heycam> we were thinking of making them easier to use in SVG 2
  152. # [08:28] <heycam> with some [PutForwards] and other things on them
  153. # [08:28] <heycam> so that you could do circleElt.cx = 100; and similar simpler things
  154. # [08:28] <othermaciej> I hate not only the API but the ridiculousness of implementing them
  155. # [08:29] <othermaciej> though fixing the API would certainly be a positive step
  156. # [08:29] <heycam> we discussed them at the f2f the week before last, though we came to the conclusion that there's probably enough content to avoid replacing those APIs completely.
  157. # [08:30] <heycam> so we're going to investigate those [PutForwards] kind of improvements, so that the cumbersome API still works too
  158. # [08:30] <othermaciej> sure, I'm not asking to remove the old bad API
  159. # [08:30] <othermaciej> it's just one of many legacy things that make me sad
  160. # [08:31] <heycam> makes me feel #00f too
  161. # [08:31] <heycam> (that's a web joke)
  162. # [08:32] <olliej> gsnedders: ?
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  164. # [08:32] <gsnedders> olliej: http://twitter.com/ohunt/status/2261936217
  165. # [08:32] <gsnedders> olliej: I not even started watching yet :P
  166. # [08:33] <olliej> gsnedders: top sites doomed me
  167. # [08:33] <gsnedders> olliej: :)
  168. # [08:33] <olliej> gsnedders: as i saw the podium in the updated snapshot
  169. # [08:33] <olliej> it made me sad
  170. # [08:33] <olliej> gsnedders: but yes, sorry for posting that
  171. # [08:33] <gsnedders> olliej: Snapshot from what?
  172. # [08:33] <olliej> gsnedders: formula1.com is in my topsites
  173. # [08:33] <gsnedders> olliej: Ah, yes, that has photos.
  174. # [08:34] <heycam> i find i have to turn off my twitter client before just popular TV show finales air, until i've watched them
  175. # [08:35] <shepazu> Pantone 292!
  176. # [08:36] * gsnedders virtually always watches it live so normally doesn't have this issue
  177. # [08:37] * hsivonen thinks the Web should use royalty-free colors
  178. # [08:39] <othermaciej> hippie
  179. # [08:44] <shepazu> hsivonen: so, no purple?
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  181. # [08:45] <heycam> no cadbury purple, anyway
  182. # [08:45] <shepazu> don't they make eggs?
  183. # [08:45] <gsnedders> Yes
  184. # [08:45] <gsnedders> Of the chocolate variety
  185. # [08:46] <MikeSmith> http://suika.fam.cx/gate/2007/cssom/viewer
  186. # [08:47] * shepazu notes that there's 2 jokes hidden in the "royalty-free purple"
  187. # [08:47] <hsivonen> shepazu: only purple made of r, g and b
  188. # [08:48] <gsnedders> hsivonen: Even if those r, g and b are identical to Pantone 292?
  189. # [08:48] <hsivonen> gsnedders: yeah. Independent implementations FTW!
  190. # [08:48] * gsnedders wishes his shoulder didn't hurt
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  199. # [09:20] <gsnedders> Huh, Adobe charge more _for_ download than shipping.
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  222. # [11:20] * zcorpan_ adds a note about [Reflect] to web dom core
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  232. # [14:15] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  233. # [14:15] * Set by annevk on Thu Feb 05 13:51:18
  234. # [14:19] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-25-6.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
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  237. # [14:45] <hsivonen> is <object> fallback known to suck in IE6?
  238. # [14:48] * Joins: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@nat/ibm/x-f0ffcb49fa5e01b0)
  239. # [14:54] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  240. # [14:58] <hsivonen> Does IE6 ever show <object> fallback?
  241. # [15:08] <Lachy> In the Window interface, why is the window attribute defined as WindowProxy? It only seems to be IE that exhibits that weird behaviour of making (window === window.window) return false.
  242. # [15:09] <Lachy> though it still returns true when just == is used instead of ===
  243. # [15:11] <hsivonen> Does Opera still have a feature that shows the document outline?
  244. # [15:11] <hsivonen> I think it did in the Opera 5 or 7 days
  245. # [15:11] <hsivonen> but now I can't find it in 10
  246. # [15:12] <Lachy> I've never seen that feature
  247. # [15:12] <hsivonen> maybe my memory fails me
  248. # [15:13] <Lachy> I never used Opera back in the version 5 days though, so it's possible that it did
  249. # [15:14] <jgraham> Lachy: AIUI all browsers have something like WindowProxy
  250. # [15:16] <jgraham> hsivonen: View -> Style -> Table of Contents, maybe?
  251. # [15:16] <hsivonen> jgraham: I think that's not it.
  252. # [15:34] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246) ("Leaving")
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  257. # [15:49] <rubys> hsivonen: do you develop on / have ready access to a Linux box?
  258. # [15:50] <hsivonen> rubys: I don't develop on Linux. I have a VM in the office and a real but slow Linux box at home.
  259. # [15:52] <rubys> http://svn.versiondude.net/whattf/htmlparser/trunk/ruby-gcj/test/domencoding.rb
  260. # [15:53] <rubys> doesn't do much yet, but is wrapping a Java Document in Ruby and exposing a method on that Ruby object that extracts data from the underlying Java object.
  261. # [15:54] <hsivonen> is encoding the data?
  262. # [15:54] <rubys> yes: String *encoding = jdoc->getXmlEncoding();
  263. # [15:56] <rubys> I've been slowed down by two Ubuntu/gcj/jaxp bugs... but if I'm past them, it is now simply a matter of adding more objects and more methods.
  264. # [15:56] <rubys> I've only tested it so far on Ubuntu and Fedora; don't know what it would take to reproduce on OSX or Windows.
  265. # [15:59] * Joins: ZombieLoffe (n=e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
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  268. # [16:12] <MikeSmith> rubys:
  269. # [16:12] * rubys listening
  270. # [16:13] <MikeSmith> gcjh -force -o headers/DomUtils.h -cp /usr/share/java/libgcj-4.3.jar:classes DomUtils
  271. # [16:13] <MikeSmith> rake aborted!
  272. # [16:13] <MikeSmith> Command failed with status (127): [gcjh -force -o headers/DomUtils.h -cp /usr...]
  273. # [16:13] <rubys> os?
  274. # [16:14] <MikeSmith> debian linux
  275. # [16:14] <MikeSmith> testing/unstable
  276. # [16:14] <MikeSmith> rubys: I just need to run "rake" in the build dir?
  277. # [16:14] <MikeSmith> or is there a configure step?
  278. # [16:14] * MikeSmith opens the README
  279. # [16:14] <rubys> rake runs extconf... checking.
  280. # [16:14] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-306f21251f74f111)
  281. # [16:14] <MikeSmith> maybe I need ruby-dev
  282. # [16:15] <MikeSmith> not sure I have it
  283. # [16:15] <MikeSmith> yet
  284. # [16:15] <rubys> that shouldn't cause gcjh to fail
  285. # [16:16] <MikeSmith> rubys: actually, I think I had no gcj
  286. # [16:16] <MikeSmith> because I removed it
  287. # [16:16] <rubys> that would cause gcjh to fail :-)
  288. # [16:17] <MikeSmith> gcj package pulls in dependencies like that fastjar thing, that screw with existing tools
  289. # [16:17] <MikeSmith> in that they don't behave like the stuff they are supposed to replace
  290. # [16:19] <MikeSmith> anyway, now installing fastjar gcj-4.3 libecj-java libecj-java-gcj libgcj9-dev
  291. # [16:22] <jgraham> hsivonen: BTW I looked in Opera 6 + 7 and couldn't see an outline toolbar
  292. # [16:23] <jgraham> s/toolbar/tool/
  293. # [16:23] <jgraham> (but it is quite likely I missed something)
  294. # [16:26] <gsnedders> hsivonen: Netscape used to have it
  295. # [16:26] <gsnedders> hsivonen: And maybe early Moz suite too?
  296. # [16:26] <MikeSmith> rubys: coool. I now have a validator.so
  297. # [16:26] <MikeSmith> and libnu-* stuff
  298. # [16:27] <rubys> :-)
  299. # [16:27] <rubys> doesn't do much yet, but the rest should be cookie-cutter
  300. # [16:27] * MikeSmith now tries "rake test"
  301. # [16:28] <MikeSmith> works
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  315. # [17:47] <jgraham> gsnedders: Which version?
  316. # [17:47] <gsnedders> jgraham: Dunno.
  317. # [17:47] <gsnedders> jgraham: I certainly remember it existing, and I'm pretty sure it was Netscape
  318. # [17:48] <gsnedders> jgraham: I want to say the early (pre-1.0) moz releases though
  319. # [17:48] <gsnedders> Which was what, 6?
  320. # [17:48] <gsnedders> Was 7 as well?
  321. # [17:48] <jgraham> gsnedders: I can't see it in 7
  322. # [17:49] <jgraham> Although it makes my eyes bleed to look at
  323. # [17:49] <jgraham> so I can't search that well...
  324. # [17:49] <gsnedders> I certainly remember some old Mac OS browser having it.
  325. # [17:50] <jgraham> gsnedders: iCab?
  326. # [17:50] <gsnedders> jgraham: No
  327. # [17:50] <gsnedders> jgraham: IE/NN I think
  328. # [17:50] * gsnedders opens IE 5.2
  329. # [17:50] * Quits: maikmerten (n=merten@129.217.9.66) (Remote closed the connection)
  330. # [17:51] <gsnedders> Not IE
  331. # [17:53] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-179-70.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  332. # [17:53] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@084202133045.customer.alfanett.no) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  333. # [17:53] <jgraham> gsnedders: It seems possible that someone developed an outline view for the sidebar thing in NS6/7
  334. # [17:53] <gsnedders> jgraham: It was a default thing in sidebar for some browser
  335. # [17:54] <jgraham> gsnedders: Not afaict. Could you have had an ISP provided "enhanced" browser or something?
  336. # [17:54] <gsnedders> jgraham: No
  337. # [17:55] <gsnedders> Anyhow, I head off to pack
  338. # [18:06] * Joins: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  339. # [18:19] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@17.246.19.160)
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  342. # [18:26] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-174-38-173.range86-174.btcentralplus.com) ("Adios intarwebs.")
  343. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> rubys: don't make the switch, man
  344. # [18:27] <rubys> so... what do you know that I don't know :-)
  345. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> nothing... I know nothing.
  346. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> (like the dude on Hogan's Heroes)
  347. # [18:28] <Philip`> Hmm, shipping versions of Fedora have beta versions of Firefox? That doesn't sound like an excellent idea for stability
  348. # [18:28] <rubys> Ubuntu did that for Firefox 2 IIRC.
  349. # [18:29] <Philip`> That doesn't sound like an excellent idea for stability either
  350. # [18:29] <Philip`> though I thought it was for FF3?
  351. # [18:29] <MikeSmith> Philip`: fedora doesn't seem to care much about stability
  352. # [18:29] <Philip`> which had some nasty fsync bug on Linux, that all the Ubuntu users were exposed to
  353. # [18:29] * rubys might have been 3
  354. # [18:29] <Philip`> or something like that
  355. # [18:29] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-174-38-173.range86-174.btcentralplus.com)
  356. # [18:30] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@67.218.107.28)
  357. # [18:30] * Philip` is happy to stick with Gentoo, where there's no temptation to mark a package as stable prematurely just to avoid having to delay it a year until the next release
  358. # [18:32] <rubys> releases are every six months for Ubuntu (and apparently for Fedora)
  359. # [18:32] <Philip`> Ah
  360. # [18:32] <Philip`> s/a year/six months/ then :-)
  361. # [18:33] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@98.234.51.190)
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  363. # [18:36] * gsnedders grumbles at finding the suitcase he was going to use has a mass of 12kg, which with Ryanair's limit of 15kg is problematic
  364. # [18:38] <Philip`> Fortunately 12 < 15
  365. # [18:38] <beowulf> is your suitcase made of wood?
  366. # [18:38] <beowulf> somewhat like a clog, carved from a single scots pine
  367. # [18:39] <Philip`> You could fill the suitcase with helium to reduce its weight (which is what really matters)
  368. # [18:40] <Dashiva> I don't think gas containers are allowed
  369. # [18:41] <Philip`> I think it's kind of hard to have a container that doesn't contain gas, unless it contains a vacuum
  370. # [18:41] <Philip`> (or a liquid, but that's certainly not allowed)
  371. # [18:42] <Dashiva> I don't think you'll get through airport security with dictionary definitions
  372. # [18:42] <jgraham> No, seriously, how do you have a 12kg suitcase?
  373. # [18:42] <jgraham> Or does it have stuff in?
  374. # [18:42] <beowulf> perhaps it has hidden compartments stuffed full of narcotics
  375. # [18:43] <jgraham> In hich case you haven't deined the problem well enough
  376. # [18:43] * Quits: dolske (n=dolske@c-76-103-40-203.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  377. # [18:43] <beowulf> but i like to imagine it's made of wood
  378. # [18:43] <Dashiva> It's lined with osmium
  379. # [18:44] <Philip`> Dashiva: It won't matter anyway because after your bag has been weighed, the security people can open it up to search for illicit contents and the helium gas will disperse harmlessly and invisibly
  380. # [18:44] * Joins: ap (n=ap@194.154.88.33)
  381. # [18:44] <Philip`> although the security people might start speaking in high-pitched voices which would give the game away
  382. # [18:44] <Dashiva> Yes
  383. # [18:44] <Dashiva> And then you'd get sued for emotional distress too
  384. # [18:45] * Joins: sbublava (n=stephan@77.119.88.157.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  385. # [18:46] <gsnedders> jgraham: I can't work that out.
  386. # [18:46] <gsnedders> jgraham: There's nothing in it.
  387. # [18:46] <Philip`> Fill it with hydrogen, and then it'll be much safer
  388. # [18:46] <gsnedders> :P
  389. # [18:46] <Philip`> since that has less obvious effects than helium
  390. # [18:46] <gsnedders> What happens if the security people smoke?
  391. # [18:46] <Philip`> unless the security people are smokers, in which case they clearly deserve what they get
  392. # [18:46] <jgraham> gsnedders: You have a suitcase that, when empty, has a mass of 12kg?
  393. # [18:46] <gsnedders> jgraham: Yes.
  394. # [18:47] <Philip`> gsnedders: Oh, you beat me :-(
  395. # [18:47] <jgraham> That is insane
  396. # [18:47] <gsnedders> Philip`: Is smoking in a public place indoors illegal in England nowadays?
  397. # [18:47] <jgraham> Or at least not designed for air travel
  398. # [18:47] <jgraham> gsnedders: Yes
  399. # [18:48] <jgraham> gsnedders: WTF does said suitcase date from, and wtf was its intended purpose?
  400. # [18:48] <gsnedders> jgraham: A couple of years ago, dunno.
  401. # [18:48] <Philip`> Perhaps it was designed for carrying radioactive devices?
  402. # [18:49] <gsnedders> Philip`: Well, it'd leak a lot of radiation even with its weight
  403. # [18:49] <jgraham> Philip`: Sounds like a reasonable theory
  404. # [18:49] <gsnedders> (As it doesn't appear to be made of lead, though I expect it would stop alpha and beta radiation… but I expect most suitcases would)
  405. # [18:52] <jgraham> Seriously? 13kg?
  406. # [18:52] * Quits: rubys (n=rubys@cpe-075-182-092-038.nc.res.rr.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  407. # [18:52] * Joins: mstange (n=markus@aixd3.rhrk.uni-kl.de)
  408. # [18:52] <Philip`> jgraham: No, 12kg
  409. # [18:53] <jgraham> Oh
  410. # [18:53] <jgraham> Well that's alright then
  411. # [18:53] <jgraham> 3kg should be more than enough for anyone
  412. # [18:55] * Joins: jwalden (n=waldo@nat/mozilla/x-2f7c419959334970)
  413. # [18:57] <takkaria> 12kg for a suitcase is indeed impressive
  414. # [18:58] <Dashiva> Most laptops only weigh 2kg (or less) anyhow
  415. # [19:00] <Philip`> You could remove the keys that aren't very useful, like ` and F6, to save more weight
  416. # [19:01] <takkaria> my macbook is 2kg and it's pretty light
  417. # [19:02] <gsnedders> Philip`: That would be relevant if I had a keyboard in the hold.
  418. # [19:02] * gsnedders finds a slightly larger case weighing 8kg
  419. # [19:02] <jgraham> takkaria: You still upstairs or you have got internet wherever you are residing now?
  420. # [19:03] <jgraham> gsnedders: Surely you can find a bag that weighs < 2kg?
  421. # [19:03] * Joins: mpt_ (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt)
  422. # [19:03] <takkaria> jgraham: I got to my apartment a couple hours ago, and internet is here
  423. # [19:03] * Joins: archtech (n=stanv@83.228.56.37)
  424. # [19:03] <jgraham> takkaria: Oh cool
  425. # [19:04] <gsnedders> jgraham: Seemingly not.
  426. # [19:04] * gsnedders has internet in his apartment
  427. # [19:04] <jgraham> gsnedders: Well obviously the blame lies with you
  428. # [19:04] <Midler> takkaria: If i sat down on ur macbook, it would break
  429. # [19:04] <Midler> =)
  430. # [19:05] <gsnedders> Midler: If I sat down on your computer, it would likely break.
  431. # [19:05] <Midler> ok, no more jokes for me in here...
  432. # [19:06] <takkaria> gsnedders: whereabouts are you living/when areyou gettinghere/what team are you on?
  433. # [19:06] <gsnedders> jgraham: Suitcases all appear to be surprisingly heavy
  434. # [19:06] <takkaria> my suitcase is 5kg
  435. # [19:07] <gsnedders> takkaria: A street whose name I cannot spell and which I have no idea how to pronounce, number 12. Friday. Dunno.
  436. # [19:07] * takkaria grins, sounds about right
  437. # [19:07] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  438. # [19:07] <gsnedders> (I'm going down on sleeper to London tonight, and I fly from STN on Friday)
  439. # [19:08] <gsnedders> (And I come back from Linköping via Berlin and London, so I don't get home for around two weeks after my internship ends)
  440. # [19:08] <gsnedders> (So I need to pack for until then)
  441. # [19:09] <gsnedders> takkaria: How big is your suitcase?
  442. # [19:09] <takkaria> about so big
  443. # [19:09] * takkaria gestures towards the suitcase
  444. # [19:09] <gsnedders> :)
  445. # [19:09] * Joins: dolske (n=dolske@nat/mozilla/x-145540f3b1c9e4ba)
  446. # [19:10] <gsnedders> takkaria: Where are you staying?
  447. # [19:10] <gsnedders> /what team are you on?
  448. # [19:10] <takkaria> I'm in Gottfriedsberg which is southwest of the office, about 20 minutes walk, on a road named Bjälbogatan and I'm on the Mini team
  449. # [19:11] <takkaria> we haven't quite figured out what I'm actually going to be doing on the Mini team yet though
  450. # [19:11] <gsnedders> hah. awesome.
  451. # [19:11] * Joins: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@nat/mozilla/x-f7bc15e6d650dafc)
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  453. # [19:13] <gsnedders> takkaria: I'm basically north of you then
  454. # [19:16] <gsnedders> Weee… less humid in Linköping than it is here
  455. # [19:17] <takkaria> jgraham: amusingly we haven't been able to get me a login yet, so my first day was mostly chatting
  456. # [19:17] <gsnedders> takkaria: Are there other interns around?
  457. # [19:17] <takkaria> not AFAIK
  458. # [19:17] <gsnedders> Then I guess that means they'll probably fix it for all interns :(
  459. # [19:18] <takkaria> fix what?
  460. # [19:18] * Quits: slightlyoff (n=slightly@67.218.107.28)
  461. # [19:18] <gsnedders> takkaria: Fix insofar as get logins
  462. # [19:19] <takkaria> oh, right
  463. # [19:20] <takkaria> hopefully I'll have one tomorrow
  464. # [19:21] * gsnedders wonders how much clothing to take
  465. # [19:21] <Midler> How come you are wisiting sweden?
  466. # [19:21] <Midler> *visiting
  467. # [19:21] * Joins: mat_t (n=mattomas@nat/canonical/x-a6725a46ab92dec4)
  468. # [19:21] <gsnedders> Midler: I'm not; both myself and takkaria are interns at Opera's Linköping office this summer
  469. # [19:22] <Midler> aha, ok
  470. # [19:22] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@nat/google/x-b108ebff9cd282fd)
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  472. # [19:23] <takkaria> gsnedders: not much, I'd say
  473. # [19:24] * gsnedders is far too much of a girl to accept that :P
  474. # [19:24] <takkaria> a week's worth of clothes, basically is what I went for
  475. # [19:25] <gsnedders> I mean, it's hardly as if one of my friends was telling some of the younger people from my school on the Hadrian's Wall trip at the weekend that I was their "gay best friend in female form" :P
  476. # [19:25] <Midler> Atleast the weather is getting nice now =) Enjoy your visit!
  477. # [19:26] <gsnedders> (Does that make me a lesbian?)
  478. # [19:27] <gsnedders> (It's certainly more fun to claim to be a lesbian, as that just confuses people)
  479. # [19:28] <takkaria> do you wear short, spiky hair and chequed shirts? :)
  480. # [19:28] <gsnedders> No, long hair in pony tail
  481. # [19:28] <gsnedders> :P
  482. # [19:28] <gsnedders> Though I do own a chequed shirt :)
  483. # [19:29] <gsnedders> takkaria: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsnedders/3331908722/
  484. # [19:30] <takkaria> ah, I used to have long brown hair
  485. # [19:30] <takkaria> then I cut it short and dyed it blonde
  486. # [19:35] <gsnedders> There's a photo of me on Facebook with green hair
  487. # [19:36] <gsnedders> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsnedders/3494620206/ — one of the very few occasions I've had my hair down in around six months
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  499. # [20:16] <jgraham> gsnedders: There are a couple of interns in core already
  500. # [20:17] <jgraham> (so I guess it is just takkaria who is having difficulties)
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  514. # [21:02] <Dashiva> http://www.cssquirrel.com/2009/06/22/comic-update-who-really-is-the-wizard-of-html5/
  515. # [21:02] <Dashiva> "If the data-harvesting Ian performs can’t be independently verified" -- Doesn't Philip` do this most of the time already?
  516. # [21:02] <Philip`> Yes
  517. # [21:03] <Philip`> I posted a comment there a while ago, but I guess it's being moderated or something
  518. # [21:03] <gsnedders> Dashiva: Lies!
  519. # [21:04] * gsnedders grumbles at it being virtually impossible to do anything on his computer with IO at limit on all disks
  520. # [21:04] <Dashiva> So since there are no actual complaints about the contents, I suppose everything is okay again then
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  523. # [21:10] <jgraham> I just posted a comment saying basically what Philip` was presumably going to say and it seems to have got through
  524. # [21:12] <Philip`> I tried saying what I'd said again but it said I'd already said it
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  526. # [21:16] * jacobol__ is now known as jacobolus
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  531. # [21:37] <Dashiva> So did the RDFa spec writers really expect that nobody would care enough to use it in HTML?
  532. # [21:40] <jgraham> Dashiva: Are you wondering for a reason?
  533. # [21:42] <Dashiva> It's easy to imagine reasoning from ignorance (HTML is irrelevant) and malice (grandfather it in later), but I don't think either of those really was the case. Surely they had some other reasoning.
  534. # [21:42] <Philip`> They were chartered to write a spec for RDFa in XHTML, so what else could they do?
  535. # [21:43] <Dashiva> They could make something that would be easy to extend into HTML :)
  536. # [21:44] <Dashiva> After all, most of the XHTML on the web is text/html anyhow. It's not like it makes a difference.
  537. # [21:47] <gsnedders> Dashiva: See /topic
  538. # [21:47] <Dashiva> But they aren't whatwg :P
  539. # [21:48] <jgraham> On the basis that the people doing the work now were likely to have had some influence on the charter, I would guess that the most likely reason is that they believed all the hype about HTML being dead and XHTML being the future. Indeed I would guess that they were generating that hype
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  550. # [22:13] <gsnedders> jgraham: Here's how I think a suitcase can weigh 12kg: it actually weighs 12 lbs (e.g., 5.4 kg)
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  553. # [22:27] <takkaria> ah, a unit mismatch. that's one of the classic blunders
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  561. # Session Close: Tue Jun 23 00:00:00 2009

The end :)