/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-07-26 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Jul 26 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  4. # [00:27] <Darxus> Woohoo "Element table is not allowed in element h1 (note: schema is not yet completed)."
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  6. # [00:38] <Darxus> Oh I guess that was already done.
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  16. # [01:43] <Darxus> Is there any other markup language that has anything equivalent to an html table's ability to have overlapping cells?
  17. # [01:44] <Darxus> ..which I should consider while writing a schema language that can specify that a table should not have overlapping cells?
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  25. # [01:59] <Darxus> Or can you think of a case where anyone would be likely to create a markup language with a structure different from: All cells are in rows, all rows must be the same width, all columns must be the same height, and there must be no overlapping cells?
  26. # [01:59] <Darxus> I realize cells could be contained in columns instead... do you think that will ever happen?
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  31. # [02:17] <Dashiva> Darxus: Have you ever used GridBagLayout?
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  38. # [02:59] <Darxus> Dashiva: No.
  39. # [03:00] <takkaria> Darxus: hmm
  40. # [03:00] <takkaria> well, someone might write a markup language where you had to lay out the table both in columns and rows separately
  41. # [03:00] <takkaria> and if the two don't match up, it's an error
  42. # [03:09] <Darxus> Heh.
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  45. # [03:26] <deltab> Darxus: Microsoft Excel has the ability to merge (span) cells; other spreadsheet formats likely have the same ability
  46. # [03:28] <deltab> so OOXML and ODF
  47. # [03:28] <deltab> oh, *overlapping*?
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  49. # [03:28] <deltab> that is, two cells that actually cover the same area?
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  52. # [03:58] <Darxus> deltab: http://www.chaosreigns.com/code/dxschema/tests/invalidtable.html
  53. # [03:59] <deltab> ah, not that I know of
  54. # [04:01] <Darxus> deltab: Just looking for stuff I might want to be able to validate. I think I've decided to not worry about it.
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  56. # [04:18] <Darxus> Implimenting relax ng style <choice> is difficult while my girlfriend is watching bollywood.
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  61. # [05:44] <Hixie> MikeSmith: why .../markup-spec/ and .../markup/? what's the difference?
  62. # [05:45] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I don't know what markup-spec is
  63. # [05:45] <MikeSmith> in dev.w3.org?
  64. # [05:45] <Hixie> http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup-spec/
  65. # [05:46] * MikeSmith looks
  66. # [05:47] <Hixie> man, between the media thing from philipj earlier and this navigation thing from bz, i'm getting no peace in terms of dealing with the simple stuff today
  67. # [05:47] <Hixie> those are like 2 of the most complex algorithms in the spec, and both pieces of feedback are basically "there's this minor edge case that affects everything that you got wrong"
  68. # [05:50] <MikeSmith> Hixie: you should just do what most other standards editors do, hide your head in the sand and don't admit those cases actually even exist
  69. # [05:50] <Hixie> boy would that be nice
  70. # [05:50] <Hixie> actually this fragment id thing might not be as bad as i feared
  71. # [05:50] <Hixie> (the one i checked in earlier for media selection was a bitch, i'm sure i made mistakes in changing it)
  72. # [05:51] <MikeSmith> that's the thing -- just like product dev: You make a fix in one place, risks introducing regressions elsewhere
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  74. # [05:53] <Hixie> yeah. i hate it when people say "oh i'm not asking for any normative changes, i would just like you to change your use of the word "foo" for the word "bar" everywhere"
  75. # [05:53] <Hixie> how about... no
  76. # [05:54] <MikeSmith> house of cards
  77. # [05:55] <MikeSmith> man, I really don't know what I did to bring http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup-spec/ into existence. it's not in CVS. must be some apache redirect I set up and forgot about
  78. # [05:55] <Hixie> heh
  79. # [05:56] <Hixie> it's a different date
  80. # [05:57] <MikeSmith> I'll get it figured out
  81. # [05:57] <MikeSmith> by the way:
  82. # [05:57] <MikeSmith> about comments saying there's no easy way to get a view of maturity levels of different parts of the spec
  83. # [05:58] <MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/toc-status.html
  84. # [05:58] <MikeSmith> that's something DanC set up a long time back
  85. # [05:58] <MikeSmith> I made some tweaks to it yesterday
  86. # [05:58] <Hixie> neat
  87. # [05:58] <MikeSmith> it's generated from the annotations db
  88. # [05:58] <Hixie> it uses the live data? sweet
  89. # [05:59] <Hixie> we should link to it from somewhere
  90. # [05:59] <MikeSmith> yeah
  91. # [05:59] <Hixie> man i need to update the data on some of these
  92. # [06:00] <Hixie> this is good, cos it shows an overview
  93. # [06:00] <Hixie> would be nice to make it editable, if you have a spare 2 days :-D
  94. # [06:00] <MikeSmith> I may have some time to mess around with it. I'm supposed to be on vacation for the next couple of weeks
  95. # [06:12] <Hixie> man, there really isn't anything interesting in tv shows these days
  96. # [06:12] <Hixie> i wish BBC and C4 were on iTunes in the US
  97. # [06:12] <Hixie> BBC America is months behind and has the worst selection
  98. # [06:13] <MikeSmith> would imagine you could get DVDs at least
  99. # [06:13] <Hixie> DVDs aren't instant-play, and are region-locked, and aren't out yet for shows that are playing now anyway
  100. # [06:13] <Hixie> i want to see today's Have I Got News For You, e.g.
  101. # [06:14] <Hixie> or Top Gear
  102. # [06:14] <Hixie> or Channel 4 News
  103. # [06:14] <Hixie> and why is TNG not on iTunes? And why do the DVDs cost such an absurd fortune?
  104. # [06:15] * Hixie adds Red Dwarf to the list of BBC shows he wishes were on US iTunes
  105. # [06:16] <Hixie> it's so sad that I could probably get a better experience if i used bittorrent
  106. # [06:16] <MikeSmith> yeah
  107. # [06:16] <Hixie> i mean, how hard can it possibly be to take my money?
  108. # [06:17] <Hixie> i was tempted to watch the last season of BSG, but $60?! for a DRM'ed download? are you kidding me?
  109. # [06:18] <Hixie> and charging $2 for 15 minutes of daily show when i can see it with ads on the comedy central site is ridiculous
  110. # [06:18] <Hixie> $0.50, ok
  111. # [06:18] <Hixie> $2?!
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  113. # [06:19] <MikeSmith> hey, people pay $3 for ringtones. or pay ridiculous per-message fees for SMS that have no relationship to the actual costs
  114. # [06:20] <Hixie> i don't
  115. # [06:20] <MikeSmith> in Japan, we deal with the SMS cost thing just by not having SMS
  116. # [06:21] <Hixie> the SMS thing is so absurd as to be laughable
  117. # [06:22] <MikeSmith> yeah, massive boondoggle
  118. # [06:22] <Hixie> and charging more for cropping a track than you paid for the track in the first place?
  119. # [06:22] <Hixie> i mean, hello?
  120. # [06:22] <Hixie> I ALREADY OWN THE MUSIC
  121. # [06:22] <Hixie> you don't need to charge me to allow the file to be used in another app
  122. # [06:25] <MikeSmith> I had figured that most content providers would have gotten past their greed and ass-backwardness by now and figured out they could be making a lot more money by pricing content reasonably and making it easier for people to get.
  123. # [06:25] <MikeSmith> but I'm wondering if they will ever actually wise up
  124. # [06:28] <Hixie> i'm really shocked that basically nobody in the TV industry has yet wised up to this stuff
  125. # [06:28] <Hixie> i mean, national boundaries are obsolete
  126. # [06:29] <Hixie> why are we still doing things by country
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  130. # [07:07] <hober> Maybe in 2022 you'll have time to spec Westphalia5
  131. # [07:27] <MikeSmith> Hixie: the status indicators on http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/toc-status.html are now edit links
  132. # [07:27] <MikeSmith> the ADD ones don't work yet; "Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'appendChild' of null"
  133. # [07:29] <MikeSmith> I assume because the script in the edit-section.html page isn't designed to be called this way
  134. # [07:31] <MikeSmith> it seems to work OK for existing annotations, except that the edit-section.html page doesn't give any visual indication after you click Save
  135. # [07:31] <MikeSmith> I guess it could redirect to the referring page
  136. # [07:31] <MikeSmith> anyway, maybe not best to be using it this way
  137. # [07:31] <MikeSmith> was just trying the quick-and-dirty approach first
  138. # [07:37] <MikeSmith> Hixie: do you have the API for status.cgi documented?
  139. # [07:38] <MikeSmith> wondering what the possible values for action are
  140. # [07:38] <MikeSmith> other than action=get-all-annotations
  141. # [07:40] <MikeSmith> nm
  142. # [07:40] * MikeSmith finds it in the code
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  251. # Session Close: Mon Jul 27 00:00:00 2009

The end :)