/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-08-20 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Aug 20 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:01] <TabAtkins> What should we be scrutinizing about it, JonathanNeal?
  4. # [00:03] * Quits: ap (n=ap@nat/apple/x-nsusnbtvzxgcdlqg)
  5. # [00:03] <Hixie> annevk2: did the document pointer stuff change in xhr?
  6. # [00:04] * Joins: ap (n=ap@17.246.19.164)
  7. # [00:04] * Joins: nessy (n=nessy@124-170-211-79.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  8. # [00:05] <annevk2> Hixie, what was previously defined did not work for when the interface object was moved around
  9. # [00:06] <JonathanNeal> TabAtkins, I just fouled up where I should have posted it. I've been writing my own normalize.css that I *think* is better than any of the major ones out there.
  10. # [00:06] <TabAtkins> Oh, okay.
  11. # [00:06] <JonathanNeal> They're always trying to re-globalize what everything means instead of actually normalize between the browsers.
  12. # [00:07] <JonathanNeal> I'm hoping we can switch to that from the yui one. However, I ended up removing all of the html5 elements from the document, so it killed the point of having you folks scrutinize my use of any specific html5 elements.
  13. # [00:07] <annevk2> Hixie, I'm not totally clear on whether all the details are correct now to be honest; I have attempted to test it, but some of the details of how document/window interact and "fully active document" make it a bit hard
  14. # [00:07] <Hixie> annevk2: if you could comment on http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7373 regarding what the new text for XHR documents should be, that'd be great
  15. # [00:08] <annevk2> Hixie, there's a XMLHttpRequest origin concept
  16. # [00:08] <annevk2> Hixie, "Each XMLHttpRequest object has an associated XMLHttpRequest origin and an XMLHttpRequest base URL."
  17. # [00:08] <JonathanNeal> We're working on making our layouts more robust and outline friendly @ http://madison.thewikies.com/alloy/960_grid.html
  18. # [00:09] <TabAtkins> JonathanNeal: Eh, all of the html5 elements default to margin-less inline elements anyway, so just put whatever you want in your file.
  19. # [00:09] <JonathanNeal> TabAtkins, no they should be block elements in my document, IF they were there.
  20. # [00:09] <Hixie> annevk2: if you could mention that on the bug that'd be awesome
  21. # [00:09] <Hixie> i gotta run
  22. # [00:09] <JonathanNeal> Those layouts in that last grid are cross browser compatible, but still give us a lot of flexability in layouts.
  23. # [00:09] <Hixie> bbiab
  24. # [00:10] <annevk2> done, nn
  25. # [00:10] <TabAtkins> Yeah, but you have to set them like that in current parsers.
  26. # [00:11] <JonathanNeal> Well, of course, but we'll be supporting ie8 for a while, I suspect, so might as well declare the elements and give them the proper style.
  27. # [00:12] <JonathanNeal> Firefox needs them too, I know, but just the css.
  28. # [00:13] * Quits: svl_ (n=me@e176255025.adsl.alicedsl.de) ("And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.")
  29. # [00:26] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@user-64-9-237-226.googlewifi.com) (Connection timed out)
  30. # [00:28] * Joins: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  31. # [00:32] * Joins: Rik`_ (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  32. # [00:32] * Quits: heycam (n=cam@203-217-91-14.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  33. # [00:33] * Quits: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
  34. # [00:34] * Quits: sgalineau (n=sylvaing@nat/microsoft/x-csrhvagepiraplkx) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  35. # [00:39] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@157.22.22.46)
  36. # [00:40] * Quits: annevk3 (n=annevk@5355732C.cable.casema.nl)
  37. # [00:40] * Quits: Rik`_ (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  38. # [00:40] * Quits: BlurstOfTimes (n=blurstof@168.203.117.59) ("Leaving...")
  39. # [00:41] * Joins: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  40. # [00:47] * Joins: jianli (n=jianli@72.14.227.1)
  41. # [00:50] * Joins: Rik`_ (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  42. # [00:50] * Quits: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  43. # [00:54] * Joins: jmb (n=jmb@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk)
  44. # [01:00] * Quits: Rik`_ (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  45. # [01:00] * Joins: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  46. # [01:04] * Quits: jlebar (n=jlebar@nat/mozilla/x-vwwbdwvnujpepfrr) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  47. # [01:07] * Joins: jlebar (n=jlebar@nat/mozilla/x-zxgvxiksubaowows)
  48. # [01:13] <Hixie> TabAtkins: so i asked around and the conclusion is that using <section><h1> may have some minor effect on SEO, but nothing serious, and we'll adapt the algorithms once we see how people are using it anyway
  49. # [01:13] * Joins: heycam (n=cam@clm-laptop.infotech.monash.edu.au)
  50. # [01:13] <TabAtkins> Awesome. Need to file that away in case our idiot SEO company complains.
  51. # [01:14] * Joins: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@user-0ce2gjn.cable.mindspring.com)
  52. # [01:15] <TabAtkins> JonathanNeal: Yo, dude, got an answer to the <h1> question.
  53. # [01:17] * Joins: sylvaing2 (n=sylvaing@c-98-247-143-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  54. # [01:33] <JonathanNeal> Reading.
  55. # [01:39] * Quits: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  56. # [01:39] * Quits: sylvaing2 (n=sylvaing@c-98-247-143-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  57. # [01:39] * Joins: Rik`_ (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  58. # [01:44] * Quits: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  59. # [01:46] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@157.22.22.46) ("The computer fell asleep")
  60. # [01:48] * Quits: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@adsl-76-243-93-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  61. # [01:48] * Quits: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@99-35-179-251.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]")
  62. # [01:49] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-ergbqzpbkuqclfpu)
  63. # [01:49] * Quits: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@nat/mozilla/x-xvlewypmtucmmoym)
  64. # [01:54] * Quits: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@user-0ce2gjn.cable.mindspring.com)
  65. # [02:01] * Quits: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@p5B0168BE.dip.t-dialin.net) ("?Q")
  66. # [02:07] * Joins: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@nat/mozilla/x-lziriwplpztdkyeo)
  67. # [02:07] * Quits: nessy (n=nessy@124-170-211-79.dyn.iinet.net.au) ("Leaving")
  68. # [02:07] * Joins: nessy (n=nessy@124-170-211-79.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  69. # [02:13] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@dsl001-150-252.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  70. # [02:19] <JonathanNeal> It takes me a long time to read a single paragraph :-D
  71. # [02:20] * Quits: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@nat/mozilla/x-lziriwplpztdkyeo)
  72. # [02:26] * Quits: broquaint (i=1f222ec2@spc2-brig11-0-0-cust222.asfd.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote closed the connection)
  73. # [02:28] * Joins: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@adsl-76-243-93-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  74. # [02:38] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  75. # [02:57] * Joins: tkent (n=tkent@220.109.219.244)
  76. # [03:05] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  77. # [03:10] * Quits: tantek (n=tantek@dsl001-150-252.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  78. # [03:13] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-kiffohohgjtpsqes) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  79. # [03:18] * Quits: JonathanNeal (n=Jonathan@rrcs-76-79-114-216.west.biz.rr.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  80. # [03:19] * Quits: atwilson (n=atwilson@74.125.59.1)
  81. # [03:30] * Joins: wakaba_ (n=wakaba_@119-228-219-193.eonet.ne.jp)
  82. # [03:30] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  83. # [03:35] * Quits: billyjackass (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-30-22.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  84. # [03:42] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@12.140.254.34)
  85. # [03:46] * Quits: aboodman (n=aboodman@72.14.229.81)
  86. # [03:51] * Quits: ap (n=ap@17.246.19.164)
  87. # [03:53] * Joins: atwilson (n=atwilson@q-static-149-82.avvanta.com)
  88. # [03:53] * Parts: ojan (n=ojan@72.14.229.81)
  89. # [03:57] * Quits: tantek (n=tantek@12.140.254.34)
  90. # [03:59] * Joins: taf2 (n=taf2@216-15-54-105.c3-0.grg-ubr3.lnh-grg.md.cable.rcn.com)
  91. # [04:02] * Joins: dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@72.14.224.1)
  92. # [04:13] * Joins: mpilgrim (n=mpilgrim@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  93. # [04:13] * Quits: mpilgrim_ (n=mpilgrim@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  94. # [04:23] * Quits: dpranke (n=Adium@nat/google/x-udyrtkgkhugpzdxo) ("Leaving.")
  95. # [04:23] * Quits: dimich (n=dimich@72.14.227.1)
  96. # [04:23] * Joins: aboodman (n=aboodman@c-98-210-196-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  97. # [04:25] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  98. # [04:34] * Joins: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@71.202.109.116)
  99. # [04:44] * Quits: taf2 (n=taf2@216-15-54-105.c3-0.grg-ubr3.lnh-grg.md.cable.rcn.com) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  100. # [04:49] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp)
  101. # [04:49] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  102. # [04:58] * Quits: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@71.202.109.116)
  103. # [05:03] * Joins: jorlow_ (n=jorlow@67.218.103.118)
  104. # [05:06] * Joins: aboodman_ (n=aboodman@c-98-210-196-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  105. # [05:06] * Joins: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@71.202.109.116)
  106. # [05:13] * Quits: jorlow (n=jorlow@nat/google/x-zdwkebrieyroxfer) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  107. # [05:19] * Joins: jwalden_ (n=waldo@nat/mozilla/x-xefcxbchozvmliby)
  108. # [05:20] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  109. # [05:23] * Quits: aboodman (n=aboodman@c-98-210-196-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  110. # [05:23] * aboodman_ is now known as aboodman
  111. # [05:25] * Quits: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@71.202.109.116)
  112. # [05:25] * Quits: jwalden (n=waldo@nat/mozilla/x-pvwpajppxylfmofd) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  113. # [05:32] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  114. # [05:37] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  115. # [05:40] * Joins: ginger (n=nessy@124-170-65-89.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  116. # [05:44] * Quits: dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@72.14.224.1) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  117. # [05:45] * Quits: jorlow_ (n=jorlow@67.218.103.118)
  118. # [05:46] * Quits: SamerZ (n=SamerZ@CPE0024369ef3ab-CM001ac35cd4b4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  119. # [05:50] * Quits: nessy (n=nessy@124-170-211-79.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
  120. # [05:51] * Joins: jorlow (n=jorlow@c-67-180-199-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  121. # [05:56] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  122. # [06:06] * Quits: jwalden_ (n=waldo@nat/mozilla/x-xefcxbchozvmliby) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  123. # [06:20] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp)
  124. # [06:48] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  125. # [07:02] * Quits: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@adsl-76-243-93-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  126. # [07:05] * Joins: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  127. # [07:08] * Joins: carloscardona (n=carlosca@67.180.160.250)
  128. # [07:17] * Joins: jwalden (n=waldo@c-98-248-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  129. # [07:20] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  130. # [07:31] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  131. # [07:34] * Joins: JonathanNeal (n=Jonathan@76-219-69-134.lightspeed.breaca.sbcglobal.net)
  132. # [07:44] * Quits: jorlow (n=jorlow@c-67-180-199-19.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  133. # [07:49] * Quits: mpilgrim (n=mpilgrim@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  134. # [07:51] * Joins: mpilgrim (n=mpilgrim@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  135. # [07:52] * Joins: Mrmil (n=ut_ollie@host-77-236-204-8.blue4.cz)
  136. # [07:54] * Joins: harig (n=aparan@59.90.71.35)
  137. # [07:58] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  138. # [08:01] * Joins: aboodman2 (n=aboodman@72.14.229.81)
  139. # [08:06] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  140. # [08:08] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp)
  141. # [08:14] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  142. # [08:17] * Quits: carloscardona (n=carlosca@67.180.160.250)
  143. # [08:29] <hsivonen> Philip`: I distribute the source code for the GPL fonts I use via @font-face.
  144. # [08:32] <hsivonen> little Bobby Tables reminds me of Robert Smith?
  145. # [08:34] <JonathanNeal> I've made good progress on my normalize css @ http://madison.thewikies.com/html5/normalize.html and the fn() for adding support for those html5 elements in ie is pretty small now.
  146. # [08:40] * Joins: matijsb (n=matijsb@hotfusion.demon.nl)
  147. # [08:44] * Joins: Maurice (n=ano@a80-101-46-164.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  148. # [08:44] * Joins: SamerZ (n=SamerZ@CPE0024369ef3ab-CM001ac35cd4b4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  149. # [08:56] <othermaciej> MikeSmith: what does the NE keyword mean?
  150. # [08:58] <othermaciej> I see, Non-Editorial
  151. # [09:04] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  152. # [09:13] * Joins: pesla (n=retep@procurios.xs4all.nl)
  153. # [09:14] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  154. # [09:15] * Parts: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  155. # [09:15] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  156. # [09:18] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  157. # [09:19] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  158. # [09:19] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  159. # [09:19] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  160. # [09:20] * Quits: SamerZ (n=SamerZ@CPE0024369ef3ab-CM001ac35cd4b4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  161. # [09:25] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  162. # [09:26] * Quits: heycam (n=cam@clm-laptop.infotech.monash.edu.au) ("bye")
  163. # [09:36] * Quits: matijsb (n=matijsb@hotfusion.demon.nl) (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  164. # [09:36] * Quits: mpilgrim (n=mpilgrim@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  165. # [09:36] * Quits: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  166. # [09:36] * Quits: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  167. # [09:36] * Quits: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246) (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  168. # [09:36] * Quits: annevk2 (n=annevk@5355732C.cable.casema.nl) (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  169. # [09:36] * Quits: beowulf (i=wiglaf@ps4552.dreamhost.com) (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  170. # [09:36] * Quits: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@m223j.studby.ntnu.no) (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  171. # [09:36] * Quits: JohnResig (n=JohnResi@ejohn.org) (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  172. # [09:36] * Quits: Darxus (n=darxus@panic.chaosreigns.com) (wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  173. # [09:37] * Joins: matijsb (n=matijsb@hotfusion.demon.nl)
  174. # [09:37] * Joins: mpilgrim (n=mpilgrim@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  175. # [09:37] * Joins: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  176. # [09:37] * Joins: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  177. # [09:37] * Joins: Lachy (n=Lachlan@85.196.122.246)
  178. # [09:37] * Joins: annevk2 (n=annevk@5355732C.cable.casema.nl)
  179. # [09:37] * Joins: beowulf (i=wiglaf@ps4552.dreamhost.com)
  180. # [09:37] * Joins: Dashiva (i=Dashiva@m223j.studby.ntnu.no)
  181. # [09:37] * Joins: JohnResig (n=JohnResi@ejohn.org)
  182. # [09:37] * Joins: Darxus (n=darxus@panic.chaosreigns.com)
  183. # [09:37] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp)
  184. # [09:39] <othermaciej> hsivonen: do the bugzilla bugs I filed about encodings seem sensible?
  185. # [09:42] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  186. # [09:43] * Quits: stevepsu (i=sjstrutt@naga.ircii.org) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  187. # [09:44] * Joins: stevepsu (i=sjstrutt@204.15.224.234)
  188. # [09:45] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  189. # [09:49] <MikeSmith> othermaciej: I've just been using that NE keyword thing as a way to cause new bug notifications to get sent to the public-html list
  190. # [09:49] <othermaciej> MikeSmith: I see - I thought the bugmail was just automatic
  191. # [09:51] <MikeSmith> it was previously, but I turned it off after we got some spammy comments from the spec-commenting form
  192. # [09:53] <othermaciej> I see
  193. # [09:53] <othermaciej> I guess these were useful bugs for the list to see
  194. # [09:53] <JonathanNeal> The overflow of body is completely different in ie6/7.
  195. # [09:53] <othermaciej> I don't think I'm going to have the time/energy to send more suggested issue closings before tomorrow's telecon
  196. # [09:54] <JonathanNeal> It can't be set visible and behave in the same way as firefox / safari
  197. # [09:54] <othermaciej> so the next round of closings will have to target Sept 3 as the date I guess
  198. # [09:54] <othermaciej> JonathanNeal: quirks or standards mode?
  199. # [09:54] <JonathanNeal> the only solution where all browsers look the same seems to be to either remove the margin on the body as the default, or set overflow to hidden.
  200. # [09:54] <JonathanNeal> standards mode.
  201. # [09:54] * Joins: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@adsl-75-61-92-1.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  202. # [09:55] <othermaciej> I think this might be too rarefied for my level of CSS understanding
  203. # [09:56] <MikeSmith> othermaciej: btw, I just checked in a version of my markup draft that includes the ARIA attributes -- based the html5+aria schema that hsivonen put together for validator.nu
  204. # [09:56] <MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/aria/
  205. # [09:58] <othermaciej> MikeSmith: cool - I don't find chapter 10 very easy to understand still, but it seems better than the raw RNG
  206. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> othermaciej: yeah, slightly, at least
  207. # [09:59] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@user-64-9-237-189.googlewifi.com)
  208. # [09:59] * Quits: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@user-64-9-237-189.googlewifi.com) (Client Quit)
  209. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> fwiw, the per-element documentation there also shows where the aria attributes integrate in
  210. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> e.g., http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/aria/address.html
  211. # [10:01] <othermaciej> MikeSmith: I see - still kinda requires following the RelaxNG links to see what is actually allowed though
  212. # [10:01] <MikeSmith> yeah
  213. # [10:02] <othermaciej> I would really like to see a modernized prose / matrix version
  214. # [10:02] <JonathanNeal> othermaciej, it's fine :-) I think this channel doesn't assume anyone is a css cross-browser-compatible guru, although, you never know.
  215. # [10:07] <othermaciej> good night folks
  216. # [10:10] <annevk2> nn
  217. # [10:14] <hsivonen> othermaciej: yeah, the bugs make sense. thanks
  218. # [10:20] * Quits: webben (n=benh@91.85.214.115) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  219. # [10:21] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@pat-tdc.opera.com) ("Ex-Chat")
  220. # [10:21] * Quits: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@adsl-75-61-92-1.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  221. # [10:24] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.172)
  222. # [10:26] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  223. # [10:34] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@pat-tdc.opera.com) ("Ex-Chat")
  224. # [10:35] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  225. # [10:35] <hsivonen> whoa! badness in the DOM spec: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=280692
  226. # [10:36] * Joins: broquaint (i=5f566a0b@spc2-brig11-0-0-cust222.asfd.cable.virginmedia.com)
  227. # [10:40] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.172) (Remote closed the connection)
  228. # [10:40] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.175)
  229. # [10:41] <annevk2> hsivonen, I thought the idea was to fix the DOM spec for that case
  230. # [10:44] <hsivonen> annevk2: it seems that zcorpan's draft fixed it already.
  231. # [10:44] <annevk2> I wish someone would make that a standards track draft
  232. # [10:44] <hsivonen> we should definitely get more visibility for zcorpan's spec and remove DevMo links to bogus W3C specs
  233. # [10:45] * hsivonen is editing DevMo DOM documentation for HTML5 truthiness
  234. # [10:49] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  235. # [10:57] * Joins: adactio (n=adactio@host86-132-125-223.range86-132.btcentralplus.com)
  236. # [11:02] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-uiljubgyfvgibvjy)
  237. # [11:06] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-192-255.bredband.comhem.se)
  238. # [11:09] <hsivonen> sigh. apparently Firefox 2 had cross-browser compatible getElementsByTagName behavior but was fixed to comply with the W3C spec
  239. # [11:12] * Joins: mat_t (n=mattomas@nat/canonical/x-dpjlhgvaxwfhqrfd)
  240. # [11:12] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.175) (Remote closed the connection)
  241. # [11:13] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-192-255.bredband.comhem.se)
  242. # [11:13] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.136.173)
  243. # [11:15] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@c83-252-192-255.bredband.comhem.se)
  244. # [11:18] * Quits: tkent (n=tkent@220.109.219.244) ("Leaving...")
  245. # [11:22] * Joins: tkent (n=tkent@220.109.219.244)
  246. # [11:25] * Joins: svl_ (n=me@dslb-084-056-108-183.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  247. # [11:28] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.136.173) (Remote closed the connection)
  248. # [11:29] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.172)
  249. # [11:31] * Joins: mpt_ (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt)
  250. # [11:32] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.172) (Remote closed the connection)
  251. # [11:32] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.136.173)
  252. # [11:34] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.136.173) (Remote closed the connection)
  253. # [11:34] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.136.173)
  254. # [11:36] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.136.173) (Remote closed the connection)
  255. # [11:37] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.172)
  256. # [11:38] * gsnedders_ is now known as gsnedders|work
  257. # [11:39] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.172) (Remote closed the connection)
  258. # [11:39] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.136.173)
  259. # [11:40] <jgraham> <flamewar>Damn people who save code using the tab character for indentation
  260. # [11:41] <annevk2> you mean that as in they took your code, made a change, and now everything uses tabs?
  261. # [11:42] <Lachy> jgraham, using tabs is superior to spaces!
  262. # [11:42] <Lachy> (well, actually, using an appropriate mix of both so that indentation levels aren't adversely affected by different tab widths)
  263. # [11:43] <jgraham> annevk2: No they just used tabs in their file
  264. # [11:43] <jgraham> And now I have to edit it
  265. # [11:43] <jgraham> But changing my code would be even more annoying
  266. # [11:44] <Lachy> jgraham, is that in some Python code?
  267. # [11:44] <Lachy> for that, I agree, spaces are the only sensible option
  268. # [11:44] <jgraham> Lachy: It's javascript
  269. # [11:46] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@tea12.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp) ("Tomorrow to fresh woods, and pastures new.")
  270. # [11:47] <jgraham> (when I said "changing my code" I actually meant the hypothetical situation where someone did change my code. In this case I could probably have learnt to reconfigure emacs to insert tabs rather than spacews but given that I will never share my changes I just replaced all the tabs)
  271. # [11:49] * Quits: mpt_ (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  272. # [11:50] * Quits: bzed (n=bzed@devel.recluse.de) ("leaving")
  273. # [11:52] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.136.173) (Remote closed the connection)
  274. # [11:52] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.44)
  275. # [11:54] <Philip`> mpilgrim: The fonts don't strictly follow all the requirements of OpenType, e.g. they don't bother updating the global font bounding box stuff, and sometimes (rarely) they do nasty things like using invalid glyph IDs to disable bits of the font
  276. # [11:54] * Joins: bzed (n=bzed@devel.recluse.de)
  277. # [11:54] <Philip`> (I think Apple has some font validator tool which is useful, and finds a few problems)
  278. # [11:54] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt)
  279. # [11:55] <Philip`> But they seem to work in all browsers/OSes I've tried, so I've not yet bothered with those minor details
  280. # [12:00] <annevk2> hsivonen, do you know where the Gecko details of handling encodings are? http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/intl/uconv/src/charsetalias.properties lists aliases, are those all? Where is it specified that us-ascii is treated as windows-1252?
  281. # [12:00] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) (Remote closed the connection)
  282. # [12:00] * Joins: svl__ (n=me@dslb-084-057-116-001.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  283. # [12:00] <annevk2> (if anyone else involved in Mozilla/Gecko knows feel free to answer :) )
  284. # [12:01] <annevk2> hsivonen, also, when you handle the parsing of <meta charset> do you perform any normalization on the value?
  285. # [12:01] * Quits: svl_ (n=me@dslb-084-056-108-183.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  286. # [12:05] <virtuelv> I'm moderately tempted to change /topic for this channel: http://translationparty.com/tp/#2157154
  287. # [12:08] <annevk2> sweet
  288. # [12:08] * annevk2 changes topic to 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- For more information about the door, feel the gratitude of logic!'
  289. # [12:12] <annevk2> http://translationparty.com/tp/#2158174
  290. # [12:13] <gsnedders|work> http://translationparty.com/tp/#2158350
  291. # [12:13] <annevk2> heh, I found a long one: http://translationparty.com/tp/#2158317
  292. # [12:15] <annevk2> "Whatever suits you." -> "Wrong suit."
  293. # [12:15] * Quits: jwalden (n=waldo@c-98-248-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3pre/20090819031634]")
  294. # [12:16] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt)
  295. # [12:17] * Quits: svl__ (n=me@dslb-084-057-116-001.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  296. # [12:17] <Rik`_> annevk2: strange, without the dot, "Whatever suits you" -> "Accident litigation"
  297. # [12:19] * Quits: Rik`_ (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  298. # [12:20] <gsnedders|work> http://translationparty.com/tp/#2159339
  299. # [12:20] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) (Remote closed the connection)
  300. # [12:20] <gsnedders|work> Peh. You guys are too distracting.
  301. # [12:24] * Joins: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt)
  302. # [12:26] * Joins: annevk3 (n=annevk@5355732C.cable.casema.nl)
  303. # [12:28] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.44) (Remote closed the connection)
  304. # [12:28] <jgraham> I am quite disappointed I can't seem to cause an infinite loop; Google translate has a thing where it sometimes translates proper nouns incorrectly e.g. the word "Swedish" gets translated to "English" in a Swedish->English translation
  305. # [12:28] <gsnedders|work> (Also: it appears giving it lyrics from The Fly js quite effective.)
  306. # [12:29] <gsnedders|work> "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet a thief, all kill their inspiration and sing about the grief." -> "All thieves, poets, artists of the sad song of all meals."
  307. # [12:29] <hsivonen> annevk2: the alias file applies, but there are also other alias-like behaviors that aren't implemented as aliases
  308. # [12:30] <hsivonen> annevk2: the HTML5 parser in Gecko defers to the underlying APIs for name normalization
  309. # [12:31] * Joins: myakura (n=myakura@p2112-ipbf1609marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  310. # [12:32] <annevk2> hsivonen, any chance you can give me pointers to the relevant bits?
  311. # [12:32] <annevk2> hsivonen, then I can create some documentation out of it on the wiki
  312. # [12:34] * Joins: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@p5B014AEE.dip.t-dialin.net)
  313. # [12:40] <hsivonen> annevk2: it seems hard to find the relevant bits :-(
  314. # [12:40] <hsivonen> annevk2: it might be that certain decoders simply magically implement behavior that happens to match a superset
  315. # [12:40] <hsivonen> superset encoding, that is
  316. # [12:41] * Quits: wakaba_ (n=wakaba_@119-228-219-193.eonet.ne.jp) ("Leaving...")
  317. # [12:41] <hsivonen> annevk2: Simon Montagu or Jungshik Shin might be able to give better pointers
  318. # [12:47] * Joins: heycam (n=cam@203-217-91-14.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  319. # [12:55] * Quits: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-uiljubgyfvgibvjy) (Client Quit)
  320. # [12:57] * Joins: webben (n=benh@217.12.14.240)
  321. # [12:57] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@host86-162-133-253.range86-162.btcentralplus.com)
  322. # [13:04] * Joins: jacobolus (n=jacobolu@adsl-75-36-149-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  323. # [13:14] * Joins: Frances (n=phaeness@host86-149-184-67.range86-149.btcentralplus.com)
  324. # [13:14] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@host86-162-133-253.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) (Nick collision from services.)
  325. # [13:15] * Frances is now known as {Phae
  326. # [13:15] * {Phae is now known as Phae
  327. # [13:20] <Lachy> this is the funniest one I've seen, mentioned in our #staff channel yesterday http://www.translationparty.com/#1728383
  328. # [13:22] <hsivonen> http://future-web.org/ is still just Coming soon
  329. # [13:24] <beowulf> http://www.translationparty.com/
  330. # [13:24] <beowulf> grr, wrong room
  331. # [13:26] <jgraham> Lachy: Thank you, that helped me find an infinite loop: http://www.translationparty.com/#2168120
  332. # [13:34] <annevk2> hsivonen, could you pm their email addresses maybe?
  333. # [13:36] * Joins: ccklaus (n=chatzill@pc154-c716.uibk.ac.at)
  334. # [13:39] <jgraham> http://www.translationparty.com/#2168787 is also fun
  335. # [13:39] * jgraham will give up trying to break translationparty now
  336. # [13:41] <hsivonen> annevk2: did I PM the right nick?
  337. # [15:41] * Disconnected
  338. # [15:42] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  339. # [15:42] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  340. # [15:42] * Topic is 'WHATWG (HTML5) -- http://www.whatwg.org/ -- Logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- For more information about the door, feel the gratitude of logic!'
  341. # [15:42] * Set by annevk2 on Thu Aug 20 12:03:23
  342. # [15:45] * Quits: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  343. # [15:47] * Joins: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  344. # [15:50] * Quits: matijsb (n=matijsb@hotfusion.demon.nl)
  345. # [15:52] * Parts: adactio (n=adactio@host86-132-125-223.range86-132.btcentralplus.com)
  346. # [15:52] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@host86-162-133-253.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  347. # [15:59] * Quits: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  348. # [16:00] * Joins: gavin (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  349. # [16:07] * Joins: tndH (n=Rob@adsl-87-102-93-219.karoo.KCOM.COM)
  350. # [16:12] * Joins: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben)
  351. # [16:14] * Joins: matijsb (n=matijsb@hotfusion.demon.nl)
  352. # [16:16] * Quits: ccklaus (n=chatzill@pc154-c716.uibk.ac.at) ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729211829]")
  353. # [16:21] * Joins: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@99.35.179.251)
  354. # [16:22] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  355. # [16:28] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@c-98-234-51-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  356. # [16:33] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.172)
  357. # [16:34] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  358. # [16:34] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@82.132.139.172) (Remote closed the connection)
  359. # [16:34] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@host86-162-133-253.range86-162.btcentralplus.com)
  360. # [16:38] * Quits: tndH (n=Rob@adsl-87-102-93-219.karoo.KCOM.COM) (Remote closed the connection)
  361. # [16:39] * Parts: Mrmil (n=ut_ollie@host-77-236-204-8.blue4.cz)
  362. # [16:43] * Quits: matijsb (n=matijsb@hotfusion.demon.nl)
  363. # [16:45] * Joins: Frances (n=phaeness@host86-162-133-253.range86-162.btcentralplus.com)
  364. # [16:45] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@host86-162-133-253.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  365. # [16:46] * Frances is now known as Phae
  366. # [16:46] * Quits: webben (n=benh@217.12.14.240) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  367. # [16:55] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com)
  368. # [16:59] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  369. # [17:08] * Quits: Maurice (n=ano@a80-101-46-164.adsl.xs4all.nl) ("Disconnected...")
  370. # [17:12] * Quits: ginger (n=nessy@124-170-65-89.dyn.iinet.net.au) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  371. # [17:15] * Quits: harig (n=aparan@59.90.71.35) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  372. # [17:18] * Quits: maikmerten (n=merten@ls5dhcp196.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  373. # [17:21] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-lddpkppkpsfqgqct)
  374. # [17:26] * Quits: atwilson (n=atwilson@q-static-149-82.avvanta.com)
  375. # [17:28] * Joins: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@nat/mozilla/x-dbfwqoicoljuqbpe)
  376. # [17:29] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@adsl-69-106-242-238.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
  377. # [17:30] * Joins: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  378. # [17:33] * Joins: taf2 (n=taf2@38.99.201.242)
  379. # [17:33] * Joins: smedero (n=smedero@D-69-91-229-112.dhcp4.washington.edu)
  380. # [17:38] * Quits: myakura (n=myakura@p2112-ipbf1609marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) ("Leaving...")
  381. # [17:41] * Joins: ap (n=ap@c-24-130-131-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  382. # [17:44] * Joins: paul_irish (i=0c21effa@gateway/web/freenode/x-yndzqituhcipwuiy)
  383. # [17:45] <paul_irish> Philip`: can i PM? bug report about the web font optimizer.
  384. # [17:49] * Joins: matijsb (n=matijsb@83.161.2.155)
  385. # [17:50] <annevk2> hsivonen, seems that Simon was on it already :)
  386. # [17:50] <hsivonen> annevk2: on what?
  387. # [17:50] <annevk2> documenting encoding stuff of Mozilla
  388. # [17:51] <hsivonen> nice
  389. # [17:51] <annevk2> https://wiki.mozilla.org/I18n:Charset_Aliases he'll integrate it in the WHATWG wiki later
  390. # [17:52] <hsivonen> ah. smontagu. not zcorpan.
  391. # [17:52] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-qnnqfauuwkouwjgd)
  392. # [17:53] <annevk2> aah, I see the confusion :)
  393. # [17:55] * Quits: smedero (n=smedero@D-69-91-229-112.dhcp4.washington.edu)
  394. # [17:58] <gsnedders|work> hsivonen: html5lib parser tests have #document-fragment — in that case, should it be standards or quirks?
  395. # [17:58] <gsnedders|work> (I guess we ought to make it possible to choose either)
  396. # [17:58] <hsivonen> gsnedders|work: Standars, I suppose, but strictly speaking, there needs to be a flag to test quirks
  397. # [17:58] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-130-188.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  398. # [17:58] <hsivonen> yay for the single quirk!
  399. # [17:59] <gsnedders|work> hsivonen: yay for acid2!
  400. # [18:04] <TabAtkins> Huh. Google just now changed the url for their search results. Yesterday it was google.com/search. Now it's just google.com, with all the query params stored in the hash.
  401. # [18:05] * Joins: Frances (n=phaeness@host86-162-133-253.range86-162.btcentralplus.com)
  402. # [18:05] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@host86-162-133-253.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) (Nick collision from services.)
  403. # [18:05] * Frances is now known as Phae
  404. # [18:09] * Quits: pesla (n=retep@procurios.xs4all.nl) ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.21 :: www.esnation.com )")
  405. # [18:12] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@201.169.34.95.customer.cdi.no)
  406. # [18:12] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@host86-162-133-253.range86-162.btcentralplus.com) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  407. # [18:14] * Joins: webben_ (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-jbngsapdkrmiufsq)
  408. # [18:16] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@201.169.34.95.customer.cdi.no) (Client Quit)
  409. # [18:19] * Quits: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-qnnqfauuwkouwjgd) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  410. # [18:35] <jgraham> Random Python question: Anyone got any idea why proc = subprocess.Popen(args, stdout=subprocess.PIPE); stdout, stderr = proc.communicate() would only get the first 64kb of output
  411. # [18:36] <jgraham> ?
  412. # [18:38] * Joins: webben (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-gbzovpgldyjnxhxv)
  413. # [18:39] <jgraham> (replacing stdout=subprocess.PIPE with a temp. file works so the program is producing the correct output)
  414. # [18:39] <jgraham> Philip`: (sorry to disturb you but you seem like the most likely person to know)
  415. # [18:41] * Quits: ap (n=ap@c-24-130-131-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  416. # [18:41] <jgraham> Hmm http://bugs.python.org/issue1256 seems relevant
  417. # [18:42] * Quits: mpt (n=mpt@canonical/launchpad/mpt) (Remote closed the connection)
  418. # [18:43] * Joins: dimich (n=dimich@72.14.227.1)
  419. # [18:50] * Quits: svl_ (n=me@dslb-084-056-080-173.pools.arcor-ip.net) ("And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.")
  420. # [18:53] * Quits: webben_ (n=benh@nat/yahoo/x-jbngsapdkrmiufsq) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  421. # [18:56] * Joins: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@c-98-203-247-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  422. # [19:01] * Quits: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@nat/mozilla/x-dbfwqoicoljuqbpe)
  423. # [19:09] * Quits: aboodman (n=aboodman@c-98-210-196-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  424. # [19:15] * Joins: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153)
  425. # [19:18] * Joins: ap (n=ap@nat/apple/x-xtezqpdirjtmxocg)
  426. # [19:42] <gsnedders|work> Does an iframe set to a data URI not fire load in Fx 3.6+html5?
  427. # [19:43] <gsnedders|work> It does, just not in the case I'm trying. WTF?
  428. # [19:45] * Quits: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  429. # [19:51] * Joins: smedero (n=smedero@D-69-91-163-182.dhcp4.washington.edu)
  430. # [19:53] * Quits: foolip (n=philip@pat.se.opera.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  431. # [20:02] * Joins: dpranke (n=Adium@nat/google/x-szjzfoukhxagrwak)
  432. # [20:02] * Joins: pererik_ (n=pe@unaffiliated/pererik)
  433. # [20:03] * Quits: pererik (n=pe@unaffiliated/pererik) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  434. # [20:06] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@157.22.22.46)
  435. # [20:09] * Quits: k0rnel (n=k0rnel@krtko.org) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  436. # [20:09] * Quits: jianli (n=jianli@72.14.227.1) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  437. # [20:09] * Quits: gsnedders|work (n=gsnedder@pat.se.opera.com) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  438. # [20:09] * Quits: yutak (n=yutak@220.109.219.244) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  439. # [20:09] * Quits: annevk3 (n=annevk@5355732C.cable.casema.nl) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  440. # [20:09] * Quits: othree (n=othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  441. # [20:09] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  442. # [20:09] * Quits: broquaint (i=5f566a0b@spc2-brig11-0-0-cust222.asfd.cable.virginmedia.com) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  443. # [20:10] * Joins: othree (n=othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw)
  444. # [20:10] * Joins: k0rnel (n=k0rnel@krtko.org)
  445. # [20:10] * Joins: annevk3 (n=annevk@5355732C.cable.casema.nl)
  446. # [20:10] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  447. # [20:10] * Joins: broquaint (i=5f566a0b@spc2-brig11-0-0-cust222.asfd.cable.virginmedia.com)
  448. # [20:10] * Joins: jianli (n=jianli@72.14.227.1)
  449. # [20:10] * Joins: gsnedders|work (n=gsnedder@pat.se.opera.com)
  450. # [20:10] * Joins: yutak (n=yutak@220.109.219.244)
  451. # [20:10] * Quits: dbaron (n=dbaron@c-98-234-51-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  452. # [20:10] * Quits: dimich (n=dimich@72.14.227.1) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  453. # [20:10] * Quits: taf2 (n=taf2@38.99.201.242) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  454. # [20:10] * Quits: Philip` (n=philip@zaynar.co.uk) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  455. # [20:10] * Quits: tkent (n=tkent@220.109.219.244) (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  456. # [20:12] * Joins: dimich (n=dimich@72.14.227.1)
  457. # [20:12] * Joins: taf2 (n=taf2@38.99.201.242)
  458. # [20:12] * Joins: Philip` (n=philip@zaynar.co.uk)
  459. # [20:12] * Joins: tkent (n=tkent@220.109.219.244)
  460. # [20:12] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  461. # [20:19] * pererik_ is now known as pererik
  462. # [20:23] * Quits: smedero (n=smedero@D-69-91-163-182.dhcp4.washington.edu)
  463. # [20:27] * Joins: ttepass- (n=ttepas--@p5B0157BC.dip.t-dialin.net)
  464. # [20:32] * Joins: cying_ (n=cying@70.90.171.153)
  465. # [20:35] * Quits: dimich (n=dimich@72.14.227.1) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  466. # [20:35] * Joins: dimich (n=dimich@72.14.227.1)
  467. # [20:36] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  468. # [20:43] * Quits: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@c-98-203-247-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  469. # [20:43] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-130-188.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  470. # [20:43] * Joins: dbaron (n=dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-vsyidtcbtondoccq)
  471. # [20:44] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-7-147.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  472. # [20:48] * Quits: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153) (Connection timed out)
  473. # [20:48] * cying_ is now known as cying
  474. # [20:48] * Quits: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@p5B014AEE.dip.t-dialin.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  475. # [20:54] * Quits: mat_t (n=mattomas@nat/canonical/x-dpjlhgvaxwfhqrfd) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  476. # [20:54] * Quits: mpilgrim (n=mpilgrim@rrcs-96-10-240-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  477. # [20:57] * Joins: bgalbraith (n=bgalbrai@nat/mozilla/x-imqwysgaeelxjivu)
  478. # [20:58] * Joins: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@201.169.34.95.customer.cdi.no)
  479. # [21:05] * Joins: slightlyoff_ (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  480. # [21:09] * Joins: jennb (n=jennb@72.14.227.1)
  481. # [21:09] * Joins: dave_levin (n=dave_lev@72.14.227.1)
  482. # [21:11] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.203.15.179)
  483. # [21:13] * Joins: svl_ (n=me@dslb-084-056-080-173.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  484. # [21:14] * Quits: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  485. # [21:15] * Quits: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153) (Remote closed the connection)
  486. # [21:16] * Joins: cying (n=cying@70.90.171.153)
  487. # [21:21] * Quits: slightlyoff_ (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  488. # [21:24] * aroben is now known as aroben|lunch
  489. # [21:25] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  490. # [21:26] * Joins: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@p5B0169D4.dip.t-dialin.net)
  491. # [21:35] * Quits: ttepass- (n=ttepas--@p5B0157BC.dip.t-dialin.net) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  492. # [21:43] * Joins: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@adsl-75-61-92-1.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  493. # [21:43] * Quits: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  494. # [21:48] <Hixie> anyone know what "Assistive technologies must treat an article like a document in that the article must be processed like an application." means?
  495. # [21:51] <othermaciej> context?
  496. # [21:51] <othermaciej> (the text itself I find baffling)
  497. # [21:52] <Hixie> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/#article
  498. # [21:52] * aroben|lunch is now known as aroben
  499. # [21:53] <othermaciej> I would assume "like a document" means "same as the document role"
  500. # [21:53] * Joins: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  501. # [21:54] <othermaciej> however, "processed like an application" seems to directly contradict that
  502. # [21:54] <othermaciej> because the "document" role seems to be defined mainly be contrasting its behavior with the "application" role
  503. # [21:55] * Hixie fails to figure out what role="" <title> should have by default
  504. # [21:56] <othermaciej> hsivonen suggested that it should have no role and not allow a role
  505. # [21:57] <othermaciej> (along with other special elements like <script> and <meta> that are really part of the document's content presentation)
  506. # [21:57] * Joins: Hish_ (n=chatzill@mail2.n-e-s.de)
  507. # [21:58] <othermaciej> in VoiceOver, the title is read when reading the whole window, in the order in which it appears in the chrome, and not read at all when browsing the content area, which would in fact correspond to no role
  508. # [21:58] <Hixie> wait, things without roles aren't read out?
  509. # [21:58] <Hixie> that can't be right
  510. # [21:58] <othermaciej> title doesn't fail to be read out because it has no role
  511. # [21:58] <Hixie> what happens if head,title{display:block} ?
  512. # [21:58] <othermaciej> it fails to be read out because it's not rendered
  513. # [22:00] <othermaciej> if title was visible, Safari would read it
  514. # [22:00] <othermaciej> is there a role appropriate to normal prose content?
  515. # [22:01] <othermaciej> I guess no role means normal prose content, for things that are rendered
  516. # [22:01] <Hixie> seem that way
  517. # [22:02] <othermaciej> I could see the argument for giving title a role of heading instead, but the case where it is made visible seems pretty unusual
  518. # [22:04] * Joins: othermaciej_ (n=mjs@17.246.18.29)
  519. # [22:04] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  520. # [22:07] * Quits: jianli (n=jianli@72.14.227.1) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  521. # [22:07] * Joins: jianli (n=jianli@72.14.227.1)
  522. # [22:09] <Hixie> this aria thing is going to be a lot of work, sigh
  523. # [22:09] <Hixie> time for lunch
  524. # [22:10] * Quits: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81) (Remote closed the connection)
  525. # [22:10] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  526. # [22:13] * Joins: weinig (n=weinig@dan75-7-88-166-184-59.fbx.proxad.net)
  527. # [22:17] * Quits: pmuellr (n=pmuellr@129.33.49.251)
  528. # [22:19] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@17.203.15.179) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  529. # [22:29] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  530. # [22:35] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  531. # [22:37] * Quits: annevk3 (n=annevk@5355732C.cable.casema.nl)
  532. # [22:37] * Joins: jwalden (n=waldo@nat/mozilla/session)
  533. # [22:53] * Joins: ap_ (n=ap@17.246.19.164)
  534. # [22:55] * Joins: annodomini (n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda)
  535. # [22:58] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  536. # [22:58] * Quits: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  537. # [22:58] * Joins: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben)
  538. # [23:00] * Quits: ap_ (n=ap@17.246.19.164) (Remote closed the connection)
  539. # [23:00] * Quits: ap (n=ap@nat/apple/x-xtezqpdirjtmxocg) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  540. # [23:01] * Joins: ap (n=ap@nat/apple/x-mnbjijxqtldqypox)
  541. # [23:06] * Quits: Super-Dot (n=Super-Do@adsl-75-61-92-1.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  542. # [23:07] * Quits: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@157.22.22.46) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  543. # [23:08] * Quits: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  544. # [23:08] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  545. # [23:11] * Quits: matijsb (n=matijsb@83.161.2.155)
  546. # [23:11] * Joins: nessy (n=nessy@124-170-65-89.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  547. # [23:15] * Joins: slightlyoff (n=slightly@72.14.229.81)
  548. # [23:17] * Quits: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  549. # [23:21] * Joins: atwilson (n=atwilson@74.125.59.1)
  550. # [23:26] * Joins: zcorpan (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  551. # [23:33] * Joins: jwalden_ (n=waldo@nat/mozilla/x-jwdmrkmxogsnxorf)
  552. # [23:33] * gsnedders sighs at the suckiness that is British trains
  553. # [23:36] <Hixie> i wonder what role="" i should use for <input type=file>
  554. # [23:37] * Quits: aroben (n=aroben@unaffiliated/aroben) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  555. # [23:37] * Hixie wonders how to make radio buttons work in aria
  556. # [23:38] <gsnedders> Ergh. £130 on three train tickets.
  557. # [23:40] <gsnedders> (Inevitably, being Britain, the trains _will_ be late.)
  558. # [23:40] * Quits: jwalden (n=waldo@nat/mozilla/x-brcnszlfpozsqyqy) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  559. # [23:42] * Quits: virtuelv (n=virtuelv@201.169.34.95.customer.cdi.no) ("Ex-Chat")
  560. # [23:43] * gsnedders wonders how much more he'll spend on trains in Sept
  561. # [23:43] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@dan75-7-88-166-184-59.fbx.proxad.net)
  562. # [23:45] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Hrm, I don't see anything appropriate, at least in http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/
  563. # [23:46] <TabAtkins> For files, at least.
  564. # [23:46] <gsnedders> How the hell does it take 7 hours to get from Coventry to Leuchars?
  565. # [23:46] <othermaciej_> I think <input type="file"> can't be accurately represented by any existing ARIA role
  566. # [23:46] <gsnedders> (I <3 British trains)
  567. # [23:46] <othermaciej_> but you also can't fake a file input with anything else, by design
  568. # [23:46] * othermaciej_ is now known as othermaciej
  569. # [23:47] <TabAtkins> Not sure how to represent <input type=radio> properly, as there's no requirement to have a "radiogroup" element.
  570. # [23:48] * aboodman2 is now known as aboodman
  571. # [23:48] * Joins: KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@157.22.22.46)
  572. # [23:49] <TabAtkins> gnedders: wtf? Travelling across Britain north-south seems about twice as far as the distance between Houston and Dallas, which can be *driven* in just over 3 hours.
  573. # [23:49] <TabAtkins> And that 'seems' is with the misrepresentative Mercator projection I'm looking at.
  574. # [23:50] <othermaciej> HTML radio button groups are implicit and don't have an element, which I guess doesn't quite match the ARIA "radio" role semantics
  575. # [23:50] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: British trains suck.
  576. # [23:50] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: Though they suck less than American trains, as far as I can tell.
  577. # [23:50] <TabAtkins> Our trains do suck, I must admit.
  578. # [23:50] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: The East Coast Main Line is decent, though, taking around 4.5 hours to get from London to Edinburgh
  579. # [23:51] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: As well as the Channel Tunnel Train Link, from London to the Channel Tunnel… but that's the only high speed line in Britain :\
  580. # [23:51] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: (Also: having a driving license helps at times.)
  581. # [23:51] <annodomini> In many cases, the American trains simply don't exist.
  582. # [23:52] <gsnedders> Well, Dr Beaching tried to make that true in Britain
  583. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> Hmm. That still blows. London to Edinburgh is 400 miles. Houston to Dallas is 230 miles. It takes about 3.5 hours to drive between houston and dallas. It shoudl take about 6 to drive between london and edinburgh.
  584. # [23:52] <gsnedders> *Beeching
  585. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> trains *should* go faster than cars.
  586. # [23:52] <gsnedders> "More than 4,000 miles of railway and 3,000 stations closed in the decade following the report, a reduction of 25 per cent of route miles and 50 per cent of stations. To this day in railway circles and among older people, particularly in parts of the country that suffered most from cuts, Beeching's name is still synonymous with mass closure of railways and loss of many local services."
  587. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> Wait. My brain just went crzy.
  588. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> 4.5 hours is fine.
  589. # [23:53] <gsnedders> It's not, at all.
  590. # [23:53] <gsnedders> This is Europe. It should have an average speed of at least 200 km/h on such a major route.
  591. # [23:53] <TabAtkins> Ah. Looks like it's average... about 90 mph. 150 km/h or so?
  592. # [23:55] <gsnedders> It's 632km (393 miles), with top speed of 200km/h (125mph).
  593. # [23:56] <gsnedders> It's also completely over capacity.
  594. # [23:59] <gsnedders> (Bear in mind that most other countries in Europe have at least 300 km/h high speed lines)
  595. # Session Close: Fri Aug 21 00:00:00 2009

The end :)