/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-09-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Sep 19 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  11. # [00:29] <alyoshka> since dd has padding already, wouldn't it make sense to drop the details {padding-left: 40px;} when emulating support in current browsers?
  12. # [00:30] <alyoshka> using padding-left in IE 7 makes for some really weird behavior
  13. # [00:30] <AryehGregor> dd in details is probably going to die, see TabAtkins' post to the list.
  14. # [00:31] <TabAtkins> The weird behavior you notice is probably a result of the behavior noted in my post (discovered by Leif, not me).
  15. # [00:31] <TabAtkins> And yes, confirmed.
  16. # [00:32] <alyoshka> most likely; I haven't done thorough testing, but details/dt/dd does some very weird things in my basic tests so far
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  18. # [00:35] <TabAtkins> Yeah, it's because IE6 and 7, whenever they encounter a dd or dt not in a dl, treat the entire rest of the document as children of the dt/dl for CSS purposes.
  19. # [00:37] <TabAtkins> Or rather, upon further testing, treat the rest of the document *up to the next dt/dd* as being children.
  20. # [00:37] <alyoshka> yeah, that's true, though IE 7 seems to have it worse than IE 6. Thing is, it has other problems in those browsers as well as Konqueror
  21. # [00:37] <TabAtkins> (and then that next dt/dd treats the next section as children)
  22. # [00:37] <TabAtkins> What other problems?
  23. # [00:38] <alyoshka> it has strange interactions with real <dl>s
  24. # [00:38] <alyoshka> though I haven't nailed the exact problem yet
  25. # [00:39] <alyoshka> I'm suspecting it could cause further trouble in more complex documents later, so I didn't see much point in testing further
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  31. # [00:53] <alyoshka> TabAtkins: where can I read your post about it. I didn't find it in the mailing list archives for some reason.
  32. # [00:53] <TabAtkins> Are you looking in the whatwg archives or the html-wg archives? It's in the latter.
  33. # [00:53] <alyoshka> whatwg :D
  34. # [00:53] <alyoshka> thanks
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  44. # [01:16] <alyoshka> you know,<details><legend> was more workable in IE than <details><dt><dd>, but unworkable in Firefox
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  48. # [01:17] <alyoshka> I actually got <details><legend> working in IE (with a rather large chunk of Javascript) pretty reliably, except for CSS styling
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  50. # [01:18] <alyoshka> though <legend> was still a bad idea
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  58. # [01:37] <annevk42> Lachy, you could prolly add a note that it's intentionally invalid
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  83. # [03:24] <heycam> boo, minefield nightlies don't work on Tiger any more :(
  84. # [03:26] <heycam> i guess it would've been nice for the updater to refuse to do the update...
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  91. # [03:50] <jwalden> heycam: you're not the only one, although I'll be off my 10.4 machine in a few days
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  104. # [04:22] <heycam> jwalden, yeah i guess everything's pushing me to buy snow leopard :/
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  109. # [04:35] <othermaciej> snowkitty is cheap, if you have an intel system
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  113. # [05:04] <jwalden> and if you're already on 10.5
  114. # [05:05] <jwalden> I'm a bit RAM-challenged lately so I kind of need a new machine anyway
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  116. # [05:09] <heycam> i've got an old-ish mac mini (core duo 1.5ghz i think)
  117. # [05:09] <heycam> hopefully it takes well to SL
  118. # [05:09] <heycam> and i've heard that you can just install SL on to a blank hard disk without needing leopard
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  181. # [10:11] * Philip` sees http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/Rdfa4google
  182. # [10:12] <Philip`> I wonder if they're aware that Google doesn't even parse application/xhtml+xml pages with an XML parser, never mind processing <!ENTITY definitions
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  184. # [10:13] <Philip`> (Actually that's just for their normal search results, I haven't tested how their Rich Snippets thing parses XHTML pages...)
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  190. # [10:52] <othermaciej> using entities in curies is, I think, more indirection than I have ever seen to produce what is ultimately an opaque identifier string
  191. # [10:57] <Hixie> heycam: make sure you have at least a gig of ram, "snowkitty" won't install on my old mac mini
  192. # [10:59] <Philip`> It's not opaque, you can dereference http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#hasOpeningHoursDayOfWeek to find out all about it (in a non-machine-readable format at least)
  193. # [11:00] <Philip`> Oh, actually it does some kind of content negotiation so I get the non-machine-readable version, while the W3C Validator gets RDF
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  196. # [11:14] <heycam> Hixie, yeah i've got 1.5GB
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  200. # [11:33] <Philip`> Hmm, I was wrong about how the Rich Snippets thing parses pages, it's seemingly not the same as used for search results etc
  201. # [11:33] <Philip`> It's not the same as any proper HTML parser, or any proper XML parser, either
  202. # [11:34] <Philip`> It seems to be kind of an error-correcting XML parser - <p><p> results in nested elements, <div/> results in a closed element, &alpha; works (with no declared doctype), entities defined in doctypes are ignored
  203. # [11:35] <Philip`> and it uses the same parser for text/html and application/xhtml+xml
  204. # [11:39] <Hixie> how do you determine that it isn't the parser used for search results?
  205. # [11:39] <Hixie> (just curious, i actually don't know if it is or not)
  206. # [11:43] <Philip`> Hmm, actually I don't know
  207. # [11:44] <Philip`> I assumed I'd tested it or something, but seemingly I haven't, so I could be wrong
  208. # [11:44] <Philip`> I suppose I also assume Google wouldn't use something so unlike an HTML parser for something serious like search results
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  210. # [11:48] <Hixie> you also assumed that the rdfa processing would have some relationship to the rdfa spec
  211. # [11:54] <Philip`> Sure, but that's an experimental new implementation with approximately zero users, vs a mature decade-old technology with a billion users
  212. # [11:54] <Philip`> so I still cling to hope
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  214. # [12:02] <Hixie> can someone please explain to me why the server sorts this table differently if i view it chrome than if i view it in safari?:
  215. # [12:02] <Hixie> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=HTML+WG&product=WebAppsWG&component=HTML5+Spec+bugs&component=HTML5+Spec+proposals&component=Web+Storage&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=R
  216. # [12:02] <Hixie> that's the "Bugs" link on http://damowmow.com/portal under "Daily"
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  224. # [12:49] <Hixie> ok i really should go to bed
  225. # [12:49] <Hixie> nn
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  234. # [13:51] <hsivonen> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2009Sep/0183.html
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  241. # [14:50] <Dashiva> hsivonen: IE "works" because it doesn't support XHTML, I guess?
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  252. # [16:03] <eighty4> I realize this might not be the correct channel to ask this, if there's a better channel to ask in please point me to it :). When trying to validate my html5 code at http://html5.validator.nu/ I'm getting "Text run is not in Unicode Normalization Form C." errors for my åäö:s When manually retyping them in the text field for the validator the error goes away. What encoding in my document should I be using to remove this errors?
  253. # [16:04] * Quits: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  254. # [16:04] <Micheil> eighty4: hmm... I think you should be using entities, over encoded characters
  255. # [16:04] <gsnedders> It's not the character set that is at fault, but the encoding of the character set. There are multiple ways to represent characters like å in Unicode. How you force NFC depends on what your editor is :)
  256. # [16:05] <hsivonen> eighty4: you can continue to use UTF-8. how did you create the content
  257. # [16:05] <hsivonen> ?
  258. # [16:05] <eighty4> hsivonen: coda using utf-8
  259. # [16:05] <hsivonen> eighty4: problem with coda then
  260. # [16:06] <Lachy> eighty4, look for an option in your editor to save the document in UTF-8 with NFC normalisation.
  261. # [16:06] <eighty4> gsnedders: shouldn't a web-dev editor be setup to work properly from the start?
  262. # [16:06] <eighty4> >< stupid coda
  263. # [16:06] <Lachy> eighty4, ideally, yes. Unfortunately, not always in practice
  264. # [16:06] * gsnedders wonders why it's not using NFC
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  266. # [16:07] <eighty4> none of the encoding options say anything about nfc :/
  267. # [16:08] <hsivonen> eighty4: anything about precomposed vs. decomposed?
  268. # [16:09] <eighty4> http://screencast.com/t/PlyND9jmqHT is the only related thing I can find
  269. # [16:10] <eighty4> doesn't seem to be a forum for coda. Just an email address.
  270. # [16:11] <hsivonen> eighty4: did you copy and paste the text from the FInder by any chance?
  271. # [16:11] <eighty4> hsivonen: from within coda
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  273. # [16:13] <eighty4> but I guess it could be an os x problem
  274. # [16:13] <hsivonen> eighty4: try filing a bug on Coda
  275. # [16:13] <hsivonen> eighty4: this is relatively easy to get wrong with Cocoa. Apple once shipped Preview.app with a bug like this
  276. # [16:18] * Parts: Micheil (n=Micheil@124-170-84-88.dyn.iinet.net.au) ("Any inconviences that may occur are purely coincidential, and we applaud them.")
  277. # [16:24] <eighty4> no apps seems to actually say what they use.
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  281. # [16:30] <eighty4> textmate does handle it ok. Guess it's a problem with coda then.
  282. # [16:36] <eighty4> there. mail sent to the coda devs
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  299. # [17:57] <abarth> Hixie: do you remember off hand how canvas tainting interacts with document.domain?
  300. # [17:59] <abarth> looks like it ignores document.domain
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  302. # [18:09] <annevk42> abarth, document.domain only affects few things
  303. # [18:09] <abarth> great
  304. # [18:09] <abarth> just want to make sure i'm fixing this the right way
  305. # [18:10] <annevk42> the idea is to make document.domain not affect more than needed
  306. # [18:11] <abarth> oh, yeah, i'm definitely in favor of that
  307. # [18:11] <abarth> the current code in webkit was taking document.domain into account
  308. # [18:11] <abarth> (and also screwing up on data URLs)
  309. # [18:11] <abarth> so I'm fixing both bugs while i'm at it
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  322. # [18:57] <annevk42> abarth, ah, I think I filed a bug on that once
  323. # [18:57] <annevk42> abarth, on WebKit that is
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  325. # [18:58] <abarth> annevk42: well, it's about to get fixed :)
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  337. # [20:17] <gsnedders> How can you simplify 9/8+x^2(9/4-3)+x^4(9/8-1) ?
  338. # [22:18] * Disconnected
  339. # Session Close: Sun Sep 20 00:00:00 2009

The end :)