/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-11-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Nov 07 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  20. # [00:11] <zcorpan> Dashiva: got a reply
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  23. # [00:17] <Dashiva> So they augment it in a completely optional way
  24. # [00:18] <Philip`> They agument it in such a way that they are either the XML spec, or are a future version of it?
  25. # [00:18] <Philip`> s/gu/ug/
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  28. # [00:20] <Dashiva> Imagine there's a set of XML n.5th editions, which is XML nth edition + namespaces (delta spec)
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  35. # [00:23] <Philip`> Dashiva: 5th edition? Nooooo!
  36. # [00:24] <Philip`> Oh, whoops, n.5th
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  42. # [00:32] <gsnedders> How do you reorder windows in irssi?
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  48. # [00:41] <Philip`> gsnedders: /quit and then restart and open the windows in the right order
  49. # [00:41] <mpilgrim> can someone answer an html5lib question?
  50. # [00:41] <gsnedders> Are we talking Python or Ruby or PHP?
  51. # [00:41] <Philip`> gsnedders: or, like, /win move 10 or something
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  54. # [00:42] <mpilgrim> parsing this file: http://hg.diveintopython3.org/hgweb.cgi/raw-file/tip/index.html
  55. # [00:43] <mpilgrim> triggers the end-tag-too-early-ignored {'name': 'form'} on line 16
  56. # [00:43] * gsnedders notes the impl isn't up to date with the spec (but hopefully will be by the end of this weekend)
  57. # [00:43] <mpilgrim> i don't understand what that error means, or how to fix it
  58. # [00:43] <mpilgrim> the file validates (according to validator.nu), so i'm confused
  59. # [00:45] <zcorpan> mpilgrim: from the message it looks like html5lib didn't expect your </form> tag
  60. # [00:45] <Philip`> mpilgrim: That markup seems quite inconsistent - most whitespace is optional so you should get rid of all those newlines that are wasting precious bytes
  61. # [00:47] <gsnedders> mpilgrim: I guess if it is valid that is a bug in html5lib
  62. # [00:49] <mpilgrim> Philip`: the newlines are stripped out during the publication process
  63. # [00:49] <mpilgrim> compare: http://diveintopython3.org/
  64. # [00:52] <zcorpan> mpilgrim: how many new lines are stripped? you can have 86 new lines and remove the comment at the top and have the same total number of bytes
  65. # [00:54] <zcorpan> maybe with gzip you could have less bytes if you use newlines without the comment
  66. # [00:54] <Philip`> You could save even more bytes by deleting a chapter
  67. # [00:55] <Philip`> Get rid of, I don't know, maybe the "XML" chapter and then you'll get like a 5% immediate saving
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  69. # [00:57] <Rik`> mpilgrim: http://gsnedders.html5.org/outliner/process.py?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdiveintohtml5.org%2Fexamples%2Fblog-html5.html "Untitled section" for the <nav>
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  78. # [01:20] <gsnedders> mpilgrim: I guess the best answer is to see if that still exists once I finish and commit and push the changes to bring html5lib up-to-date with the spec
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  83. # [01:33] <Dashiva> Rik`_: That's a failure of the outliner, technically
  84. # [01:33] <Rik`_> Dashiva: oh ?
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  86. # [01:34] <Dashiva> The spec recommends useful defaults for stuff like <nav>
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  89. # [01:34] <Dashiva> Since the element already specifies the semantics of the content
  90. # [01:35] <gsnedders> Dashiva: I don't want to implement any heuristics beyond what the spec requires in the outliner though
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  92. # [01:36] <Dashiva> gsnedders: "User agents should provide default headings for sections that do not have explicit section headings."
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  95. # [01:36] <Dashiva> And then goes on to used "Navigation" in the example
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  97. # [01:36] <Dashiva> -d
  98. # [01:36] <zcorpan> "Untitled section" is a default heading
  99. # [01:37] <gsnedders> Dashiva: I'm well aware of what the spec says :)
  100. # [01:37] <gsnedders> Dashiva: And as zcorpan says, there is a default :)
  101. # [01:37] <Dashiva> gsnedders: Well, you're going ... the opposite of beyond ... what the spec does :P
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  103. # [01:39] <Dashiva> It's not like it's more than a element name -> section name dict
  104. # [01:39] <cardona507> TabAtkins - did you have any slides or a url from your css gradient talk?
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  106. # [01:42] <Hixie> ok between lachy yesterday and anne choking himself just now, y'all are just _trying_ to take yourselves out
  107. # [01:42] <Hixie> wtf
  108. # [01:43] <gsnedders> I'm still alive!
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  110. # [01:43] * annevk2 was reading http://twitter.com/sgalineau/status/5493563264
  111. # [01:43] * gsnedders facepalms
  112. # [01:43] <cardona507> haha
  113. # [01:43] <gsnedders> (But has a SMIL come to his face too)
  114. # [01:44] * Hixie puts his drink down before reading that msg
  115. # [01:44] <Hixie> heh
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  123. # [02:17] <Dashiva> gsnedders: Do you know enough Norwegian to construct that pun on your own?
  124. # [02:18] <gsnedders> But maNo.
  125. # [02:19] <gsnedders> *no
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  161. # [04:18] <gantrixx> I'm curious to know the latest on the HTML5 <video> tag
  162. # [04:18] <gantrixx> this is desperately needed
  163. # [04:19] <gantrixx> I'm tired of trying to get video to work using conflicting plugins
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  235. # [12:03] * zcorpan_ wonders what triple-equality checking is
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  238. # [12:05] * Rik`_ is now known as Rik`
  239. # [12:07] <zcorpan_> i understand that anne means ===, but first it sounded like checking == three times
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  242. # [12:12] <Philip`> It's possible a cosmic ray will invert the output of ==
  243. # [12:12] <Philip`> so you need to check it several times if you want to be really really sure
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  248. # [12:40] * gsnedders realies he left headphones in the office. Gah.
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  255. # [13:08] * zcorpan_ looks at a bug for <table><form> and sees that it has a number of dups
  256. # [13:08] <zcorpan_> clearly what opera does is not good enough for web compat
  257. # [13:15] * gsnedders remembers looking at those bugs
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  307. # [16:37] * zcorpan_ is now known as zcorpan
  308. # [16:38] <Dashiva> http://www.flickr.com/photos/25541021%40N00/3706760751/in/set-72157620803945238/
  309. # [16:38] <Dashiva> That's a lot of empty accounts
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  315. # [16:55] <erlehmann> ohmigawd
  316. # [16:55] <erlehmann> the german parliamentary tv guy wrote back
  317. # [16:55] <erlehmann> ant asked stuff like „can the video element do rtmp“
  318. # [16:56] <erlehmann> and attributed HTML5 solely to the W3C
  319. # [16:56] <erlehmann> *double facepalm*
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  321. # [17:02] <jgraham> Dashiva: Looking at that twitter stream, I am impressed by the ratio of design goodness to insightfulness
  322. # [17:02] <jgraham> Because there is a lot of the former and almost none of the latter
  323. # [17:03] <jgraham> e.g. almost the flight fatality data he has deals with absolute numbers rather than per journey
  324. # [17:03] <jgraham> Which makes it useless for understanding pretty much anything interesting
  325. # [17:04] * Joins: boogyman (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/boogyman)
  326. # [17:11] <Philip`> Dashiva: Is there really a precise 50% male/female split on Twitter, or did he just make that up?
  327. # [17:16] <Dashiva> :iiam:
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  365. # [20:52] * gsnedders opens up text editor to try and fight html5lib into matching the spec
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  367. # [20:57] * gsnedders reaches "in body" and sighs
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  369. # [21:06] <jgraham> gsnedders: Up. Tommorrow. Yes
  370. # [21:06] <gsnedders> jgraham: So num += 2?
  371. # [21:06] <gsnedders> or only 1?
  372. # [21:07] <jgraham> yes
  373. # [21:07] <jgraham> 2
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  376. # [21:18] * yoshu_ is now known as yoshu
  377. # [21:30] <Dashiva> That canvas focus box thing made me think about flash
  378. # [21:30] <Dashiva> In many cases it's possible to use tab to focus the active areas
  379. # [21:31] <Dashiva> But in some cases that actually ruins the flash, games where you aren't supposed to know where to click.
  380. # [21:31] <Dashiva> I wonder if it's possible to play such a game using AT
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  397. # [22:40] <Philip`> "assuming the people of the future are at least halfway sane"
  398. # [22:40] <Philip`> That's a dangerous assumption
  399. # [22:40] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  400. # [22:40] <Philip`> since I think many of the people of the past and present aren't
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  402. # [22:44] <gsnedders> Such as Philip`
  403. # [22:52] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  404. # [22:56] * Quits: webben (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com) (Remote closed the connection)
  405. # [22:56] <jgraham> Philip`: Maybe the futre here means "a far future in which genetic engineering has boosted average intelligence to remarkable levels"
  406. # [22:56] * Joins: webben (n=benh@dip5-fw.corp.ukl.yahoo.com)
  407. # [23:10] <gsnedders> Weee, 1500 test failures in html5lib
  408. # [23:10] <gsnedders> I guess that's what I get for having a whole insertion mode not implemented at all
  409. # [23:10] * Quits: mpilgrim (n=mark@193.179.2.234) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  410. # [23:13] <Trede> Do i interpret the draft correctly that a websocket server can return multiple "websocket-protocol" header names only when a client did not specify any protocol ?.
  411. # [23:15] * Joins: zcorpan_ (n=zcorpan@c83-252-193-59.bredband.comhem.se)
  412. # [23:19] <gsnedders> Why on earth do we implement the scripting enabled case in html5lib anyway?
  413. # [23:22] <Trede> its quite sad that a draft is allowed to be written so poorly such as the websocket one by ian is. its hardly on the level you expect from something on ietf.org
  414. # [23:25] <gsnedders> zcorpan_: How kind do you feel at the moment?
  415. # [23:30] <zcorpan_> gsnedders: hmm?
  416. # [23:37] <gsnedders> zcorpan_: You know how you wrote all those TCs for <script>? Could you go through all the other test inputs in the tree construction tests that contain <script and update them? :)
  417. # [23:37] <gsnedders> I'll buy you lunch if you do. :)
  418. # [23:38] * Joins: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-197-62.tcso.qwest.net)
  419. # [23:41] <Philip`> jgraham: I'm not sure intelligence has much link to sanity
  420. # [23:42] <Philip`> Otherwise there wouldn't be so many mad professors
  421. # [23:43] <Philip`> and TV has taught me that there's a lot of them
  422. # [23:44] <gsnedders> <!doctype html></html> <head> should result in a text node " " under body, right?
  423. # [23:46] <zcorpan_> gsnedders: wasn't the spec changed to ignore end tags there?
  424. # [23:46] * Quits: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-197-62.tcso.qwest.net)
  425. # [23:47] <gsnedders> zcorpan_: If I read the spec right (unlikely) then no
  426. # [23:48] <zcorpan_> hmm bash says cvs is not a command :(
  427. # [23:48] <gsnedders> 'An end tag whose tag name is one of: "head", "body", "html", "br"' takes you through all the steps to create the doc, then you end up in after-after-body
  428. # [23:49] * zcorpan_ tries smartcvs
  429. # [23:49] <zcorpan_> but now i don't remember what my passphrase is
  430. # [23:49] * Joins: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-197-62.tcso.qwest.net)
  431. # [23:51] * Joins: shepazu (n=schepers@adsl-150-154-13.rmo.bellsouth.net)
  432. # [23:51] * Quits: mat_t (n=mattomas@80-225-9-175.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  433. # [23:51] * gsnedders is amazed at the number of bugs in his tokenizer update code
  434. # [23:51] * Joins: mat_t (n=mattomas@80-225-9-175.dynamic.dial.as9105.com)
  435. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> Philip`: It's a better assumption than that the future people will be completely sane.
  436. # [23:53] <TabAtkins> And, I think, is also a better assumption than that the future people will be stupider than us.
  437. # [23:53] * Quits: yoshu (n=josh@174-18-197-62.tcso.qwest.net) (Client Quit)
  438. # [23:53] <gsnedders> jgraham: 15:15 just inside the cinema tomorrow.
  439. # [23:54] <Trede> like humanity ever improves /
  440. # [23:55] <gsnedders> zcorpan_: Want to see Up in English tomorrow?
  441. # [23:56] <zcorpan_> gsnedders: maybe
  442. # [23:57] <gsnedders> zcorpan_: Just tell me yes/no sometime before I go and buy the tickets tomorrow morning :)
  443. # Session Close: Sun Nov 08 00:00:00 2009

The end :)