/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-11-25 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Nov 25 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  17. # [01:11] <ezyang> How painful is it to change all refs on google code from one email address to another?
  18. # [01:11] <ezyang> I want to ditch my old google code account, but my html5lib bits are still on it
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  31. # [02:21] * karlcow wonders what is happening with David Storey
  32. # [02:21] <karlcow> http://twitter.com/dstorey/status/6035181550
  33. # [02:21] <karlcow> >I'm announcing now I'm leaving Opera. They like to be the good gu nut that is 100% bull shit.
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  37. # [02:35] <roc> perhaps someone hacked his account
  38. # [02:36] <karlcow> roc: that could be a possibility indeed.
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  41. # [02:53] <Hixie> othermaciej: is there a list of pending deadlines for change proposals?
  42. # [02:53] <othermaciej> Hixie: I'm working on one and will post it by tomorrow - all current due dates are either Dec 3 or Dec 17 I believe
  43. # [02:54] <othermaciej> Hixie: specifically I think Dec 3 might be the date for counter-proposals for the "split Microdata" issue
  44. # [02:57] <Hixie> k
  45. # [02:57] <Hixie> i'm drowning in e-mail from my vacation, so i was worried about missing something
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  47. # [03:03] <othermaciej> there was quite a bit of public-html email recently
  48. # [03:08] <Hixie> i noticed
  49. # [03:08] <Hixie> bbiab
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  51. # [03:16] <TabAtkins> othermaciej: That list would be awesome - I was asking around for one a day or two ago, because I wanted to write some counterproposals.
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  53. # [03:19] <othermaciej> all right, let me see if I can throw one together quickly
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  107. # [04:55] <othermaciej> Hixie: are you around?
  108. # [04:55] <Hixie> yup
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  110. # [04:56] <Hixie> othermaciej: what's up?
  111. # [04:57] <othermaciej> Hixie: is this sufficiently detailed and informative to be a Change Proposal, in your opinion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Nov/0153.html
  112. # [04:57] <othermaciej> I assume it is intended to be for ISSU-56 urls-webarch
  113. # [04:57] <Hixie> i think a change proposal is unnecessary for that topic, since the editor hasn't rejected anything yet as far as i'm aware
  114. # [04:58] <Hixie> in fact quite the opposite
  115. # [04:59] <othermaciej> I didn't think so either (though technically we do have an ISSUE, but it seems like one we could resolve it by amicable resolution assuming you now have what's needed)
  116. # [05:00] <Hixie> i don't yet have what's needed; the change proposal's first sentence is "assuming those requirements are met", which they aren't yet
  117. # [05:00] <Hixie> so the change proposal similarly isn't ready to be considered yet
  118. # [05:00] <Hixie> i don't think there's anything controversial here
  119. # [05:01] <othermaciej> if the requirements are not met, could you reply with specifics?
  120. # [05:01] <othermaciej> I'm looking at this because I'm trying to complete the issue status page
  121. # [05:01] <Hixie> the iri working group doesn't exist yet
  122. # [05:01] <Hixie> the requirements are to be met by the iri working group
  123. # [05:02] <Hixie> i'm sure larry and i will work together over the coming months to address the issues
  124. # [05:02] <othermaciej> ok
  125. # [05:02] <Hixie> i don't think anything process-related needs to be invoked yet
  126. # [05:02] <othermaciej> I'm a little confused about what Larry intended with his proposal
  127. # [05:03] <Hixie> i dunno
  128. # [05:04] <othermaciej> since I'm making the list, I don't want to just drop that one on the floor
  129. # [05:05] <othermaciej> I'm not sure if he's asking to reference algorithms that are not yet defined in an IRIBIS draft, if he thinks everything needed is defined already, or if this proposal is intended to be considered once the relevant IETF WG forms and the draft is in a suitable state
  130. # [05:06] <Hixie> the latter, i think, given the first sentence
  131. # [05:06] <othermaciej> you mean the last of my options?
  132. # [05:06] <Hixie> yeah
  133. # [05:10] <othermaciej> wow, the draft charter calls for WG LC by January 2010
  134. # [05:12] <Hixie> IRI?
  135. # [05:12] <Hixie> the htmlwg charter calls for WG LC by June 2008, so I don't know that charters mean much
  136. # [05:13] <othermaciej> so, I have a table giving status and next applicable deadline for issues going through the Change Proposal process
  137. # [05:14] <othermaciej> trying to figure out where to post it
  138. # [05:14] <othermaciej> I'm not sure if the HTML WG wiki is sufficiently flexible about formatting
  139. # [05:14] <Hixie> doesn't it have an html mode?
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  142. # [05:17] <othermaciej> the wiki's table support does headers as a <td><p><strong>... instead of a <th>
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  144. # [05:19] <Hixie> nice
  145. # [05:20] <othermaciej> I guess I'll just check it into cvs
  146. # [05:27] <othermaciej> Hixie, TabAtkins: http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html
  147. # [05:32] <othermaciej> Hixie: does that contain all the info about deadlines and such that you need?
  148. # [05:33] <Hixie> it would be ideal for my purposes if it was sorted by deadline, but yes, that's awesome
  149. # [05:33] <othermaciej> I left out the ISSUE-56 thing for now but I may add it depending on Larry's response
  150. # [05:34] <Hixie> (td, th { vertical-align: top; } would be nice also)
  151. # [05:35] <othermaciej> oh, I forgot issue-7
  152. # [05:35] <othermaciej> I'll add that style change too
  153. # [05:43] * Hixie is tempted to just say yes to bugs 8365 and 8368 and see what happens
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  156. # [05:49] <othermaciej> removing section 6 would break the spec pretty bad
  157. # [05:51] <othermaciej> section 8 could probably be removed or split without undue hassle, but it is one of the few HTML5 features implemented by all the browsers
  158. # [05:51] <Hixie> i'm tired of people filing bugs that are fantastically bad ideas (like those two)
  159. # [05:51] <othermaciej> (or at least the postMessage part is if I recall correctly)
  160. # [05:52] <Hixie> and then being bitched at when i say "no"
  161. # [05:52] <Hixie> so i think i might just say "yes" and be bitched at for that instead
  162. # [05:52] <Hixie> if those bugs are still open by the time i get to them
  163. # [05:53] <Hixie> it would be a nice change
  164. # [05:53] <othermaciej> has anyone complained about a bug resolution lately (other than to escalate to the tracker)?
  165. # [05:54] <Hixie> i havne't done anything lately
  166. # [05:54] <Hixie> so no
  167. # [05:54] <othermaciej> I assume Shelley filed these so she could make an ISSUE of them
  168. # [05:54] <othermaciej> the last instance I recall of someone getting upset over a negative resolution was a summary-related bug where John Foliot was unhappy
  169. # [05:55] <othermaciej> that was in September, before the official bureaucratic process
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  173. # [06:07] * Hixie stares at 136 e-mails on xml in html and sighs
  174. # [06:07] <Hixie> do i have to read this all
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  184. # [06:24] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Was that a rhetorical question?
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  186. # [06:28] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Because, if not, I'll say no. Just to see what happens. ;)
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  194. # [06:59] <Hixie> i read it after all
  195. # [07:02] <TabAtkins> I knew you would.
  196. # [07:02] <TabAtkins> Unrelated: how was your vacation?
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  198. # [07:09] <Hixie> relaxing.
  199. # [07:09] <Hixie> i wrote the beginnings of a MUD using WebSockets
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  201. # [07:15] <TabAtkins> Interesting.
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  247. # [09:53] * Philip` wonders if it is safe to prophesy that the bugs about removing sections from the spec will be closed as WONTFIX and then escalated as issues and then the whole discussion can start all over again on the mailing list for a month and then start again when there's a vote and then it will be rejected
  248. # [09:57] <hsivonen> Philip`: maybe. and the Process will have cost a lot in terms of time of the employees and contractors of W3C Member companies.
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  250. # [10:00] <hsivonen> othermaciej: thanks for fixing the Change Proposal timetable
  251. # [10:00] <othermaciej> hsivonen: thanks for pointing out the bug
  252. # [10:02] <hsivonen> Hixie: why does the 'table scope' algorithm name 'html in the HTML namespace' specifically?
  253. # [10:03] <Hixie> no idea
  254. # [10:03] <hsivonen> hmm. I see the spec has qualified the 'in scope' algorithms with "in the HTML namespace"
  255. # [10:03] <hsivonen> I wonder if that's a necessary qualification
  256. # [10:04] <hsivonen> hmm. maybe it is, because the MathML HTML containers aren't scoping
  257. # [10:04] <hsivonen> like foreignObject
  258. # [10:04] <hsivonen> sigh
  259. # [10:05] <hsivonen> Hixie: is it by design, that the 'in scope' algorithms aren't sensitive to the local names in the MathML or SVG namespaces for legacy content magic?
  260. # [10:05] <Hixie> no idea
  261. # [10:06] <Hixie> i have paged that algorithm to long term memory at the moment
  262. # [10:06] * hsivonen wonders if the interesting local names break out of foreign lands anyway
  263. # [10:06] <hsivonen> maybe I should make a note to check if the namespace check can be optimized away
  264. # [11:28] * Disconnected
  265. # [11:29] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  266. # [11:29] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  267. # [11:29] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  268. # [11:29] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 22:03:06
  269. # [11:30] <hsivonen> sigh. krijnh missed the interesting data
  270. # [11:31] <othermaciej> he needs a better connection!
  271. # [11:31] <othermaciej> want me to repaste it?
  272. # [11:32] <jgraham> http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/mama-phrase-block-list/ suggests <spacer> is more popular than <blink>
  273. # [11:33] <hsivonen> othermaciej: I can rephrase for my bug reports, so no need to repaste
  274. # [11:33] <othermaciej> as long as there's a permanent record
  275. # [11:34] <hsivonen> jgraham: is that counting tags or pages?
  276. # [11:35] <hsivonen> hmm. WBR is more rare than SPACER according to MAMA
  277. # [11:39] <hsivonen> looks like Adobe GoLive 4 has generated <spacer> elements
  278. # [11:40] <jgraham> hsivonen: Not sure
  279. # [11:40] <jgraham> I think tags
  280. # [11:42] <jgraham> Actually given the most popular elements are all roughly as frequent as pages it must be pages
  281. # [11:42] <jgraham> s/as/as there are/
  282. # [11:43] <webben> hsivonen: you've probably already seen this, but in case you haven't, more grist for the dtds-as-single-point-of-failure mill at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/973687
  283. # [11:44] <hsivonen> webben: I hadn't seen that one. thanks
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  286. # [11:47] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: see final comment at http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=640#c7
  287. # [11:48] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: doesn't 'redundant' mean that the language was previously registered but the same string can be derived from the new registration system by other means?
  288. # [11:48] <MikeSmith> yeah, that is what it means, afaik
  289. # [11:49] <MikeSmith> but there are some cases in the registry where those redundant entries are also marked as deprecated
  290. # [11:49] <MikeSmith> so even though they are derived tags, I guess what they are saying is, don't use them
  291. # [11:50] <hsivonen> ah ok
  292. # [11:50] <hsivonen> I filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531030
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  294. # [11:50] <hsivonen> I'll file a spec bug if it gets WONTFIXed
  295. # [11:50] <hsivonen> afk
  296. # [11:51] * MikeSmith hopes that now these changes are committed, he will not have to spend any time studying the IANA language tag registry again for a long. long time
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  305. # [12:06] <Philip`> othermaciej: The page with the list of pages is two years old, so the pages probably changed
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  307. # [12:06] <Philip`> The newer data seems to indicate a similar percentage usage
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  312. # [12:39] <hsivonen> Hixie: wouldn't it be a safe bet to parse <spacer> as a void element even if non-Gecko browsers didn't support it in layout
  313. # [12:40] <hsivonen> Hixie: after all, the rendering section is optional but the parsing section is mandatory
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  316. # [12:59] <gsnedders> Is there any reason why outerHTML isn't on Node?
  317. # [12:59] <gsnedders> Well, I guess it doesn't make sense on Document and DocumentFragment
  318. # [12:59] <gsnedders> and innerHTML doesn't make sense on comment/ProcessingInstruction/DocumentType
  319. # [13:02] <smaug_> or on Attr node :)
  320. # [13:03] <jgraham> Attr node doesn't make much sense :)
  321. # [13:06] <Dashiva> outerHTML: Element, innerHTML: Element, Document, DocumentFragment?
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  323. # [13:06] <hsivonen> is the 'table text' insertion mode there only because Hixie didn't want to spec an explicit accumulation buffer for all insertion modes?
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  326. # [13:07] <jgraham> hsivonen: Yes
  327. # [13:07] <hsivonen> jgraham: thanks. I think I'll leave it out
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  329. # [13:07] <hsivonen> unless I later find I need it for SAX correctness or something
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  331. # [13:11] <hsivonen> Hixie: why doesn't 'form' in 'in table' inspect the form pointer (and ignore the token if the form pointer is non-null)?
  332. # [13:12] <hsivonen> Hixie: and why doesn't 'form' in 'in table' set the form pointer?
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  341. # [13:36] * gsnedders is now mixing up Python and Javascript when he tries to write Python. Gah.
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  345. # [13:38] <Philip`> They're similar enough that that should cause less problems than mixing up many other pairs of languages
  346. # [13:40] <Dashiva> I mix in Japanese when I try to speak German
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  350. # [14:06] <gsnedders> Hixie: I've been told to tell you.
  351. # [14:11] <payman> gsnedders: I assumed u would try to find out _what_ to tell Hixie!
  352. # [14:15] <gsnedders> payman: I thought you could just tell him yourself though :P
  353. # [14:18] <payman> gsnedders: You didn't, otherwise you wouldn't ping him at all.
  354. # [14:19] <gsnedders> Philip`: Until you hit things like foo = { a: b }, which has very different meanings
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  356. # [14:20] <jgraham> Not that different
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  358. # [14:20] <gsnedders> Different enough to cause errors in Python
  359. # [14:20] <Philip`> Just use foo = { "a": b } everywhere
  360. # [14:23] <Philip`> I quite like how Perl uses the => operator to automatically quote the word on its left
  361. # [14:23] <gsnedders> eww, Perl
  362. # [14:23] <Philip`> so { a => $b } is equivalent to { 'a', $b }
  363. # [14:23] <Philip`> and (pack LL => 123, 456) is equivalent to (pack 'LL', 123, 456) etc
  364. # [14:24] <jgraham> This must be some new meaning of the word "like" that I don't understand
  365. # [14:25] <Philip`> It seems better than the autoquotiness being dependent on further-removed syntax like whether you're inside a {...} declaration
  366. # [14:25] <Philip`> and better than it being indistinguishable from a block of code containing a label and an expression
  367. # [14:26] <jgraham> What's wrong with just putting in quote characters?
  368. # [14:28] <Philip`> Putting in quote characters is a fine alternative
  369. # [14:28] <Philip`> TIMTOWTDI
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  371. # [14:29] <jgraham> (BSOTAUCAHTR)
  372. # [14:29] <jgraham> (But Several Of Those Are Unnecessarilly Confusing And Hard To Read)
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  384. # [15:11] <webben> hsivonen: http://code.google.com/p/google-web-toolkit/issues/detail?id=2069 claims to be FIXED - is the compiled JS mentioned at http://blog.whatwg.org/html5-live-dom-viewer now hosted online somewhere?
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  387. # [15:13] <hsivonen> webben: http://livedom.validator.nu/
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  390. # [15:16] <webben> hsivonen: ta
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  393. # [15:30] <gsnedders> Anyone know of a good Java tutorial?
  394. # [15:32] <zcorpan> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=good+Java+tutorial
  395. # [15:33] <murr4y> the official sun one, tbh
  396. # [15:33] * gsnedders notes Google isn't a very recommendation engine
  397. # [15:34] * gsnedders could Google, "Good music", and hate all of it
  398. # [15:34] <zcorpan> google sucks
  399. # [15:34] <gsnedders> Yeah, Bing ftw!
  400. # [15:35] <hsivonen> "good Foo tutorial" is a hard question, because people who'd be competent to review if a tutorial on Foo is bogus have been doing Foo long enough not to read tutorials
  401. # [15:35] <zcorpan> bing actually has sun's java tutorial at #1
  402. # [15:35] <jgraham> http://letmebingthatforyou.com/?predicate=good%20java%20tutorial
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  404. # [15:35] <Philip`> I had "Teach Yourself Java in 21 Days", but I can't recommend it since it took about five years before I learnt Java
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  406. # [15:36] <hsivonen> Philip`: I had roughly the same experience
  407. # [15:36] <jgraham> So it was wrong by a factor of almost 90
  408. # [15:36] <jgraham> Impressive
  409. # [15:37] <gsnedders> I wonder who did the QA on the book
  410. # [15:37] <gsnedders> I guess the problem is you need a new QA for which draft, as they know Java by the end of it... hopefully.
  411. # [15:37] <hsivonen> speaking of books and QA, Zeldman did ask for reviews: http://www.zeldman.com/2009/11/23/reviewers-needed/
  412. # [15:37] <zcorpan> Philip` wouldn't have bought it at all and thus never learned java if it said "Teach Yourself Java in 38325 Days"
  413. # [15:38] <Philip`> I think the book started with a Hello World applet which seemed to require far too much code and too many tools, so I went back to QuickBASIC
  414. # [15:38] <Philip`> hsivonen: Amazon reviews, not technical reviews
  415. # [15:39] <zcorpan> s/38325/1825/
  416. # [15:40] <hsivonen> http://norvig.com/21-days.html
  417. # [15:40] <jgraham> The intent of the two seems quite different...
  418. # [15:40] <Philip`> (It's easier to get started if you don't do applets, because then the only inexplicable magic is the "public static void main(String[] args)" bit which you can safely ignore for a few weeks)
  419. # [15:41] <hsivonen> the mistake *everything* about early Java did (books included) was talking about applets
  420. # [15:43] <Philip`> zcorpan: You're forgetting leap years
  421. # [15:43] <zcorpan> Philip`: yeah, i know
  422. # [15:43] <Philip`> Also, it might have been seven years
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  425. # [15:49] <hsivonen> speaking of Learn X in y amount of time, I just got spam advertising learning Chinese in 16 minutes and Spanish in 6 minutes.
  426. # [15:50] <jgraham> heh
  427. # [15:53] <gsnedders> They blatantly think you have leet langauge skillz
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  433. # [16:14] <hsivonen> Hixie: Why is there "Script data end tag open state"? Wouldn't it be equivalent to go directly to "Script data end tag name state"?
  434. # [16:15] <hsivonen> (and moving the buffer creation and token creation one step backwards)
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  437. # [16:17] <hsivonen> Hixie: the state naming is inconsistent with "close tag" and "end tag"
  438. # [16:17] <hsivonen> the new script state machine sure has states...
  439. # [16:20] <gsnedders> It was great fun to implement.
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  443. # [16:24] <zcorpan> it's worse than doctypes
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  448. # [16:35] <hsivonen> I hope the zapping of the comment-like escapes from noframes, noscript and iframe is ok...
  449. # [16:36] <karlcow> I'm curious to know how henri defines "on the Web" in the comment http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8365#c15
  450. # [16:36] <karlcow> Does that mean going through HTTP?
  451. # [16:36] <zcorpan> hsivonen: i researched that (sent to list), only style is a bit problematic but i couldn't find a way to make style less problematic
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  453. # [16:37] <Philip`> Wow, someone fixed lists.w3.org so previous/next message links into different date ranges work
  454. # [16:37] <danbri> :) at last
  455. # [16:37] <Dashiva> Now they just have to fix rel=next
  456. # [16:38] <zcorpan> hsivonen: see http://www.w3.org/mid/op.u2crntvwidj3kv@simon-pieterss-macbook.local (and followups)
  457. # [16:39] <karlcow> epub used on the Web - http://www.epubbooks.com/blog/20080718/bookworm-reader-for-epub-books/
  458. # [16:39] <hsivonen> zcorpan: thanks
  459. # [16:39] <karlcow> another interesting (hack) usage of HTML5 video in epub http://blog.threepress.org/2009/11/15/using-html5-video-in-epub/
  460. # [16:40] <hsivonen> karlcow: browsable from any Internet host using an unextended Web browser
  461. # [16:40] <zcorpan> hsivonen: apparently the encoding issue was with Philip`'s decoder and not with v.nu's sniffer
  462. # [16:40] <hsivonen> karlcow: where a Web browser is a piece of software suitable for browsing the Web
  463. # [16:41] <hsivonen> karlcow: or you know it's a Web browser when you see one :-)
  464. # [16:41] <karlcow> that would include ftp :)
  465. # [16:42] <hsivonen> karlcow: if SPDY is adopted, would SPDY-enabled sites be on the Web?
  466. # [16:42] <karlcow> no idea according to your Web definition which is not testable.
  467. # [16:43] <hsivonen> karlcow: it's a circular definition
  468. # [16:43] <hsivonen> this has been discussed before
  469. # [16:43] <karlcow> CQFD
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  471. # [16:45] <hsivonen> karlcow: anyway, the notion that a section needs to be split out because allegedly some use of HTML doesn't need the section is bogus
  472. # [16:45] <Philip`> Can we remove accessibility since graphical UAs don't need most of it?
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  475. # [16:47] <karlcow> maybe an exit strategy of this issue is to rephrase the section in a way which makes it independent of "browser". It would be possible for example to call it "HTML User agent" or something similar
  476. # [16:47] <zcorpan> Philip`: why would graphical UAs not need accessibility?
  477. # [16:48] <hsivonen> karlcow: trying to define the Web is like trying to define obscenity
  478. # [16:48] * karlcow has a joke wrt this last sentence of hsivonen but will abstain
  479. # [16:48] <hsivonen> karlcow: but when an off-line file is loaded to a non-browser ebook reader app, you know it's not a Web use
  480. # [16:49] <karlcow> too many negatives in that sentence
  481. # [16:50] <zcorpan> when an online file is loaded to a browser app, you know it's a Web use
  482. # [16:50] <hsivonen> karlcow: anyway, the whole ePub thing is a red herring, because even if ePub were in charter scope, it doesn't follow that we should split out stuff that ePub allegedly doesn't need
  483. # [16:51] <Philip`> zcorpan: (I mean a graphical UA with a user who just looks at the screen, and doesn't use any tools that can make use of ARIA and doesn't right-click to see longdesc and doesn't disable images to see alt text etc)
  484. # [16:51] <Philip`> Is there a list of non-streamable HTML errors somewhere?
  485. # [16:51] * karlcow wonders if hsivonen is then the big wolf jumping of red herrings :)
  486. # [16:51] <hsivonen> Philip`: There's a public-html email of mine
  487. # [16:51] * karlcow is trying to imagine hsivonen with a costume
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  489. # [16:52] * Philip` is trying to imagine karlcow making sense :-p
  490. # [16:53] <karlcow> Philip`: it is what you get when you discuss with poets or dreamers!
  491. # [16:53] <karlcow> we need more mythology in HTML 5 WG.
  492. # [16:53] <karlcow> wait maybe we do ;)
  493. # [16:54] <zcorpan> Philip`: isn't it just attributes on stray <html>, attributes on stray <body>, stuff between </head> and <body> that should be moved to head, some cases for aaa, foster parent, and stuff after </body> and </html>?
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  495. # [16:55] * karlcow thought about little red hood when reading red herring
  496. # [16:55] <shelleyp> Philip: Graphical UAs do "need" accessibility, as a way of providing alternative content for visual impaired
  497. # [16:56] <timz> Can anybody tell me if there is any particular reason why the blank Nodes of triples generated by this parser http://james.html5.org/microdata/ begin with 54 ? as in _:vmrahSFh54. and not for example _:vmrahSFh1. and then _:vmrahSFh2.
  498. # [16:58] <shelleyp> exit
  499. # [16:58] <shelleyp> Sorry, wrong command in wrong place
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  501. # [16:59] <Philip`> timz: The names are meaningless and just an implementation detail of the RDF serialiser it uses
  502. # [16:59] <jgraham> timz: The triples are generated by some python rdf library
  503. # [16:59] <timz> Ok thanks
  504. # [16:59] <jgraham> (well the serializations are, the actual content is my fault)
  505. # [17:00] <jgraham> (and I think the content is buggy so don't depend on it for anything remotely important)
  506. # [17:00] <jgraham> (but do report bugs when you find them)
  507. # [17:01] <timz> jgraham: the triples or the html content ?
  508. # [17:01] <jgraham> The triples
  509. # [17:01] <timz> okay
  510. # [17:01] * hsivonen notes that the WG name doesn't have a number
  511. # [17:01] <jgraham> As in I think the microdata -> RDF conversion is broken
  512. # [17:02] <hsivonen> HTML WG (no number) and XHTML2 WG (with number)
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  514. # [17:02] <jgraham> The microdata -> JSON is more likely to be right but is also probably broekn
  515. # [17:02] <timz> wel bugs, the ntriple parser doesn't handle item as property value very well
  516. # [17:02] <timz> euh n3
  517. # [17:02] <timz> i mean
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  519. # [17:02] <Philip`> zcorpan: I'm happy to assume it's just that, since I can't think of any others and can't find hsivonen's email
  520. # [17:03] <Philip`> hsivonen: And the XHTML2 WG's output has largely been updates to XHTML1
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  522. # [17:04] <hsivonen> Philip`: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009May/0582.html
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  527. # [17:11] <Philip`> hsivonen: Aha, thanks
  528. # [17:11] <karlcow> [11:01] <hsivonen> HTML WG (no number) and XHTML2 WG (with number)
  529. # [17:11] <karlcow> short memory
  530. # [17:11] <karlcow> xhtml2 wg was html wg.
  531. # [17:12] <karlcow> in the reorganization, renaming, etc scenario
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  533. # [17:12] <karlcow> The naming has been part of the things falling into the cracks I guess.
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  539. # [17:41] <Dashiva> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/973687
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  541. # [17:43] <Philip`> Dashiva: Old news
  542. # [17:43] <Philip`> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20091125#l-282
  543. # [17:45] <Dashiva> :(
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  545. # [17:47] <Philip`> Old news is better than no news, so don't be sad
  546. # [17:47] <Dashiva> I'm sad because I missed the first posting
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  588. # [19:49] <zcorpan_> i hope microsoft have flipped the whitespace switch in MSXML in IE before shipping xhtml support
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  591. # [19:55] <Philip`> zcorpan_: Better write some test cases for them to make sure they get it right
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  593. # [19:58] <zcorpan_> Philip`: feel free to add a tc to https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=489112
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  597. # [20:10] <saikatc> hey guys, i'm using pisa html to pdf converter, which i believe uses html5lib under the hood, and I'm noticing that images in my html are not being converted properly. these images are using data uris whose source point to base64 encoded pngs. is it possible that html5lib doesn't support this, or does it seem like i should be looking elsewhere for the cause of this problem?
  598. # [20:11] <saikatc> by not converted properly, i mean, aren't showing up at all =)
  599. # [20:11] <gsnedders> elsewhere
  600. # [20:11] <gsnedders> html5lib does nothing but create a tree
  601. # [20:12] <saikatc> i see, thanks
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  622. # [21:37] <othermaciej> Hixie: ayt?
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  645. # [23:16] <Huvet> Hi again! I just ran 295 swedish news sites through html5lib, and here are the stats: 3 Bug 126, 2 Bug 128
  646. # [23:18] <Huvet> if I just catch AttributeError and ValueError, all of them pass :)
  647. # [23:20] <jgraham> Huvet: Great
  648. # [23:20] <jgraham> I gues I can glance at the bugs now, but it is really time to sleep
  649. # [23:20] <Huvet> yep, that's a far better track record than all others I've tried
  650. # [23:21] * jgraham is pretty disappointed we fail so often
  651. # [23:22] <Huvet> bah, you're the best :)
  652. # [23:22] <Huvet> but I wouldn't mind you passing them all ;)
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  666. # [23:39] * Quits: danbri_ (n=danbri@unaffiliated/danbri) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  667. # [23:54] <jgraham> Huvet: I think I have fixes for both those bugs. Just need to make a testcase for 126
  668. # [23:55] * Quits: Steve^ (n=steve@92.40.162.29.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) ("Leaving")
  669. # Session Close: Thu Nov 26 00:00:00 2009

The end :)