/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2009-12-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Dec 16 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  29. # [00:05] <zcorpan> Hixie: doesn't the device example need <video autoplay>?
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  33. # [00:09] <Hixie> zcorpan: probably wouldn't hurt, indeed
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  49. # [00:22] <fantasai> Anyone know why html5lib's documentation page returns 404?
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  69. # [00:36] <Hixie> i just checked in r4444
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  71. # [00:36] <Hixie> four fours! it's gonna be a long time until r55555
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  90. # [01:40] <Hixie> hrm
  91. # [01:40] <Hixie> it's not clear how to proceed on the <device> thing until we have a codec
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  103. # [02:46] <AryehGregor> Oh, I wanted to link roc to <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535043>. Oh well.
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  343. # [10:05] <jgraham> fantasai: Interesting. Al the documentation seems to have vanished
  344. # [10:07] <jgraham> Still in svn though: http://html5lib.googlecode.com/svn/wiki/UserDocumentation.wiki
  345. # [10:08] <jgraham> I wonder if we are supposed to migrate it to mercurial somehow
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  348. # [10:37] <hsivonen> gsnedders: do we really need contentModelFlags.test to support initializing the tokenizer to an arbitrary?
  349. # [10:37] <hsivonen> gsnedders: also, what's spec for initialStates?
  350. # [10:40] <hsivonen> whew. the failures went away when I fixed the test harness to use the new test case syntax
  351. # [10:40] <hsivonen> except a couple of real failures I had introduces in the tokenizer
  352. # [10:43] <hsivonen> hg outgoing says
  353. # [10:43] <hsivonen> (deprecated '%' in path default-push=https://hsivonen%%40iki.fi@html5lib.googlecode.com/hg/ from /Users/Shared/Projects/html5lib/.hg/hgrc:3)
  354. # [10:43] <hsivonen> should I take one of the % signs away?
  355. # [10:43] <hsivonen> apparently, yes
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  364. # [11:18] <mia^^> hi
  365. # [11:18] <jgraham> The W3C should really do whatever is needed to update WebIDL under /TR/
  366. # [11:19] <mia^^> I am here to learn
  367. # [11:20] <annevk2> it's not really up to the W3C
  368. # [11:20] <annevk2> more up to weinig
  369. # [11:21] <Philip`> I thought the whole purpose of /TR/ was for hosting outdated documents
  370. # [11:21] <jgraham> Doesn't there have to be some sort of group decision or so?
  371. # [11:21] <hsivonen> mia^^: welcome
  372. # [11:22] <jgraham> Anyway having a draft that is greater then 1 year out of date under TR seems unusually poor (and would certainly faila per-document rather than per-group heartbeat requirement)
  373. # [11:22] * hsivonen wonders what crazy UA sniffing WebKit and Opera are going to face when they try to implement <script defer>
  374. # [11:22] <mia^^> hsivone thank you
  375. # [11:24] <mia^^> bbs phone
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  377. # [11:24] <jgraham> mia^^: Anything in particular you are here to learn, or just trying to soak up the ambiance?
  378. # [11:24] <annevk2> jgraham, the reason is that weinig wanted to update some more things before pushing out a new version
  379. # [11:24] <annevk2> jgraham, based on TC39 comments or something
  380. # [11:24] <hsivonen> does ES5 standardize the IE @cc_on stuff/
  381. # [11:24] <hsivonen> ?
  382. # [11:25] * hsivonen wonders why the document.write in http://www.mnot.net/templates/hinclude.js runs in Gecko
  383. # [11:25] <jgraham> annevk2: I would prefer "push early puish often" as a policy. The current situation confuses the hell out of e.g. Google
  384. # [11:25] <jgraham> hsivonen: @cc_on?
  385. # [11:26] <hsivonen> jgraham: JScript conditional comments
  386. # [11:26] <jgraham> No
  387. # [11:26] <hsivonen> hmm.
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  389. # [11:27] <annevk2> jgraham, sure, I'm just explaining the situation
  390. # [11:29] <annevk2> Hixie, what if you invoke StreamRecorder.stop() several times? seems you get ever-larger file objects with the current text
  391. # [11:29] <annevk2> Hixie, you might want file objects per fragment
  392. # [11:32] <annevk2> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/ looks quite ugly
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  404. # [12:32] <gsnedders> Philip`: yt?
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  410. # [12:45] <Philip`> gsnedders: y
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  413. # [12:50] <hsivonen> oops. sorry. It seems I broke one test I thought I was fixing. I'll push a fix shortly.
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  427. # [13:19] <hsivonen> did we agree that we want foster-parented text nodes to coalesce?
  428. # [13:24] <jgraham> hsivonen: I think we did but I'm not sure Hixie did
  429. # [13:25] <hsivonen> hmmkay. should I change the "excite me" test case now or later?
  430. # [13:25] * gsnedders didn't think anyone apart from him and hsivonen was in that thread
  431. # [13:25] <gsnedders> _We_ did. Dunno about anyone else.
  432. # [13:25] <jgraham> Well I did too
  433. # [13:33] <hsivonen> I'll go ahead and change the test
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  440. # [13:37] <hsivonen> is it intentional that we don't have a tree builder test file numbered 13?
  441. # [13:39] <hsivonen> lovely. I see test failures in script escapes and in the AAA
  442. # [13:46] <gsnedders> It used to exist, IIRC
  443. # [13:48] <Philip`> hg log says it never did
  444. # [13:48] <hsivonen> gsnedders: if you wrote it, did you forget to hg add?
  445. # [13:49] <gsnedders> No
  446. # [13:49] <gsnedders> I didn't write it
  447. # [13:49] <gsnedders> I thought it had existed once
  448. # [13:49] <hsivonen> whoever wrote 14 must have assumed 13 existed
  449. # [13:49] * hsivonen goes see where 14 came from
  450. # [13:50] <hsivonen> jgraham: blame points to you
  451. # [13:51] <jgraham> I thought we once did and then it got moved to tests99 or so
  452. # [13:51] <jgraham> But it could just have been a mistake :)
  453. # [13:51] <hsivonen> 99?
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  455. # [13:52] <jgraham> There were some tests that you made for not-yet-specified behaviour that got moved to a magic test file
  456. # [13:52] <annevk> airplanes skip row 13 too
  457. # [13:52] <annevk> it confused me recently
  458. # [13:52] <jgraham> By "magic" I mean "numbered 99"
  459. # [13:53] * hsivonen doesn't see a file numbered 99 in the repo
  460. # [13:54] * hsivonen wonders if the list of bad numbers in the airplane row range has much more than 13 on it or if only skipping 13 is a culturally-biased thing and proper i18n would require skipping many more rows
  461. # [13:54] <gsnedders> Then that was spec'd and then it was moved
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  464. # [14:05] <hsivonen> my script escape states are shamefully buggy
  465. # [14:05] <hsivonen> it's a small wonder they work for dogfooding in practice
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  467. # [14:09] <jgraham> I think if you skipped all the numbers that some culture considers unlucky you would have to go to a totally different system like named rows or something
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  471. # [14:42] <hsivonen> ok if I change tests to anticipate Hixie fixing http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8373 ?
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  473. # [14:44] <annevk> jgraham, not sure that'd go down better :)
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  518. # [15:15] <hsivonen> now I have only two classes of test case failures left:
  519. # [15:15] <hsivonen> 1) surrogates (wontfix)
  520. # [15:15] <hsivonen> 2) space characters in the AAA
  521. # [15:15] * hsivonen doesn't like touching the AAA
  522. # [15:15] <hsivonen> also, we don't have enough test coverage for frameset-ok
  523. # [15:15] <annevk> surrogates?
  524. # [15:16] <hsivonen> annevk: the test cases test lone surrogates in JSON input
  525. # [15:16] <hsivonen> annevk: I've decided checking for those doesn't belong in the tokenizer
  526. # [15:16] <hsivonen> but belongs on a lower layer that doesn't participate with JSON
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  532. # [17:24] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  533. # [17:24] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 22:03:06
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  554. # [17:42] <Hixie> annevk3: i intend to make stop() make the object dead so a second call won't do anything
  555. # [17:42] <Hixie> or might throw an exception
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  565. # [17:44] <annevk3> k
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  591. # [18:05] <annevk3> whoa, what's up with all the new accounts on wiki.whatwg.org?
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  677. # [20:38] <Hixie> i don't understand why people have such an adverse reaction to the websocket protocol spec
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  679. # [20:39] <Hixie> when probed, people always say it should be more like other specs, e.g. HTTP or the BWTP proposal, but that was exactly the kind of mistake I set out to avoid...
  680. # [20:39] <Hixie> (mistake because those specs describe the wire protocol, but generally don't define client or server requirements, and don't define error handling)
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  686. # [20:59] <franksalim> Hixie, I think they are looking for a formal grammar describing WebSocket frames
  687. # [21:01] <franksalim> Hixie, which, unless I am missing something, is not in the latest draft
  688. # [21:01] <Hixie> what for?
  689. # [21:03] <franksalim> Hixie, to understand and discuss the frame structure. FWIW, I also think you are right to precisely describe client and server requirements and error handling
  690. # [21:03] <franksalim> without a grammar, you have to do a lot of reading to understand what the protocol would typically look like on the wire
  691. # [21:04] <Hixie> well, there's a diagram in section 1.2 showing the wire format
  692. # [21:04] <Hixie> but i guess i could add a non-normative abnf blob if that's what people want
  693. # [21:06] <franksalim> That is only my best guess of what people want
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  695. # [21:13] <franksalim> judging from comments on hybi
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  697. # [21:18] <Hixie> huh. i don't think you can describe the wire protocol as ABNF.
  698. # [21:19] * Hixie uses the <> escape hatch
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  701. # [21:26] <annevk3> oh man
  702. # [21:26] <annevk3> Forms WG comments are generating all the email
  703. # [21:29] <annevk3> I guess we should just go the W3C way about this; make a WG decision to not address their comment and move on...
  704. # [21:29] <annevk3> I mean sure, ideally everything would be separate and completely unreadable and even less understandable, but that's not the case
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  720. # [21:45] <Hixie> franksalim: well i tried adding some ABNF for the wire protocol, we'll see how that goes
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  733. # [22:02] <annevk3> Hixie, so to prevent the race condition I remove all currently queued tasks as part of the steps for abort()?
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  740. # [22:17] <annevk3> MacBook fail
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  742. # [22:17] <annevk3> I was planning on buying a new one but now this one is freezing/crashing on me all the time I'm not so sure anymore...
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  781. # [23:19] * Quits: ojan (n=ojan@72.14.229.81) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  782. # [23:19] * Quits: KarlinTrouble (n=karl@128.30.54.58) (Success)
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  799. # [23:58] * Joins: Heimidal (n=heimidal@cpe-76-168-254-92.socal.res.rr.com)
  800. # [23:58] * Quits: weinig (n=weinig@17.244.1.187)
  801. # [23:58] * Quits: cedric_ (n=cedric@116.197.231.192) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  802. # [23:58] * Joins: cedric_ (n=cedric@112.199.148.96)
  803. # Session Close: Thu Dec 17 00:00:00 2009

The end :)