/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-01-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jan 02 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  32. # [03:51] <Hixie> MikeSmith: hey, neat, can we get the cross-referencing dfn.js set up for the multipage full copy too?
  33. # [03:51] <Hixie> what would i have to add to my pipeline?
  34. # [03:52] <MikeSmith> hey Hixie
  35. # [03:53] <MikeSmith> if you add it to your build that should be all that's needed
  36. # [03:53] <MikeSmith> what I'm doing for the author view is just hacking it in
  37. # [03:55] <MikeSmith> the splitter just copies the dfn.js reference into the split-out files
  38. # [03:55] <MikeSmith> afaict
  39. # [04:11] * doc_doom is now known as doc_who
  40. # [04:11] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I remembered something else I've been wanting to bug you about
  41. # [04:11] <MikeSmith> when you have a chance, please see:
  42. # [04:11] <MikeSmith> http://qa-dev.w3.org:8888/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.w3.org%2Fhtml5%2Ftests%2Fvalidation%2Ffull%2Finvalid%2Fmissing-attributes%2Flink-missing-
  43. # [04:11] <MikeSmith> href.html
  44. # [04:12] <MikeSmith> oops
  45. # [04:12] <MikeSmith> http://qa-dev.w3.org:8888/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fdev.w3.org%2Fhtml5%2Ftests%2Fvalidation%2Ffull%2Finvalid%2Fmissing-attributes%2Flink-missing-href.html
  46. # [04:12] <Hixie> oh so dfn.js doesn't actually work cross-file?
  47. # [04:12] <MikeSmith> Hixie: well, no
  48. # [04:12] <Hixie> oh ok
  49. # [04:12] <Hixie> nevermind then
  50. # [04:12] <MikeSmith> no magic -- only works within the
  51. # [04:12] <MikeSmith> same file
  52. # [04:12] <Hixie> i disabled it on the whatwg copy because it wasn't particularly useful without that
  53. # [04:13] * Hixie looks at the file
  54. # [04:13] <MikeSmith> yeah, it may be that I should disable it in the multipage author view too
  55. # [04:13] <MikeSmith> see the attributes list in the error message
  56. # [04:13] <MikeSmith> the "(required)" stuff
  57. # [04:14] <MikeSmith> I added that by patching the copy of the HTML5 spec that v.nu uses
  58. # [04:14] <MikeSmith> 10-line change
  59. # [04:14] <MikeSmith> http://pastebin.ca/1734693
  60. # [04:15] <MikeSmith> so.. I wanted to as if you could consider making that change to your source
  61. # [04:15] <MikeSmith> or something similar
  62. # [04:15] <Hixie> html5 used to have those, i took them out because very few attributes really are required vs optional, most have complicated rules about whether to have them in or not
  63. # [04:16] <Hixie> so i figured it would be misleading to say "required" or not
  64. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> well, for the v.nu case, I think it's useful
  65. # [04:16] <Hixie> e.g. title="" is required on <link>... if rel="stylesheet alternate"
  66. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> right
  67. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> but v.nu catches those cases and reports them
  68. # [04:17] <Hixie> yeah but the spec would be misleading if it said "required" for href="" but not title=""
  69. # [04:17] <Hixie> because title="" isn't optional in all cases
  70. # [04:17] <MikeSmith> ah, I see your point
  71. # [04:18] <MikeSmith> so, OK, it may be that this is really only useful for the v.nu messages
  72. # [04:18] <Hixie> i agree that it's useful in validators, though maybe it should explicitly say what is missing, since i was a bit confused when first looking at the error message
  73. # [04:18] <Hixie> gotta go, bbiab
  74. # [04:18] <MikeSmith> OK
  75. # [04:19] <MikeSmith> but yeah, that's the core problem -- the relaxng/jing backend doesn't give useful error messages about missing attributes
  76. # [04:19] <MikeSmith> the backend doesn't report which attributes are missing
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  83. # [07:05] <zcorpan> happy new year
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  86. # [07:11] <Hixie> indeed
  87. # [07:11] <Hixie> happy 2010 :-)
  88. # [07:14] * jtbandes wants nested CSS, e.g. #main { foo:bar;... p { baz:quux; ...} } == #main { foo:bar; ..} #main p {baz:quux;}
  89. # [07:17] <zcorpan> jtbandes: write a python script to translate it to standard css
  90. # [07:17] <jtbandes> Ew..
  91. # [07:18] <jtbandes> I could, but that would make it almost as hard to deal with as non-nested CSS
  92. # [07:19] <zcorpan> why?
  93. # [07:19] <zcorpan> debugging gives a different view?
  94. # [07:19] <jtbandes> eh?
  95. # [07:20] <zcorpan> oh nm, i was thinking of dragonfly and similar
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  101. # [09:02] <Hixie> othermaciej: any news on the microdata thing?
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  105. # [09:43] <MikeSmithX> http://blog.jclark.com/2010/01/xml-namespaces.html
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  110. # [09:53] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: any news on xml-stylesheet checking?
  111. # [09:58] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: "^text/xsl(;.*)?$" could be "^text/xsl(;|$)" instead, i think
  112. # [10:00] <jtbandes> Just a tip, with the disclaimer that I know nothing about the context here: isn't it better to use \A \Z rather than ^$ ?
  113. # [10:02] <zcorpan> dunno
  114. # [10:02] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: &&amp; should be invalid
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  116. # [10:16] <othermaciej> Hixie: will be soon
  117. # [10:18] <Hixie> cool
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  119. # [10:34] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: thanks
  120. # [10:34] <MikeSmith> jtbandes: what's \A \Z ?
  121. # [10:35] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: about news, you mean news about getting it deployed on validator.nu?
  122. # [10:43] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: naw i wondered if you've done anything more
  123. # [10:44] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: I think I've got it passing all test cases, and have implemented all the warnings cases
  124. # [10:44] <MikeSmith> I sent the diff to hsivonen for review
  125. # [10:44] <zcorpan> cool
  126. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> but it's a pretty big diff, so I reckon it will take him some time to review it
  127. # [10:45] <zcorpan> i made a few more comments in the bug
  128. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> ah, OK
  129. # [10:47] <MikeSmith> I'll make the chararacter-ref changes
  130. # [10:47] <MikeSmith> and push out to qa-dev when I have it done
  131. # [10:48] <MikeSmith> James Clark's latest blog entry is a good read
  132. # [10:48] <MikeSmith> on namespaces
  133. # [10:48] <MikeSmith> he mentions the whatwg wiki mechanism for rel values
  134. # [10:49] <Hixie> a mechanism which mark is planning on making orders of magnitude more complicated
  135. # [10:50] <Lachy> MikeSmith, where is James Clark's blog?
  136. # [10:51] <Lachy> found it. http://blog.jclark.com/
  137. # [10:51] <MikeSmith> yep
  138. # [10:51] <MikeSmith> http://blog.jclark.com/2010/01/xml-namespaces.html
  139. # [10:51] <MikeSmith> is the direct link to the post
  140. # [10:52] <MikeSmith> he also favors dotted/reverse DNS syntax for names
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  142. # [10:54] <Lachy> it's interesting how in step 2 he claims that "The one true way of naming things on the Web is with a URI." and then step 3 identifies the problem with that, but instead of fixing the problem in step 2, a layer of abstraction is added instead.
  143. # [10:56] <MikeSmith> Lachy: I don't think he's claiming that. I think instead he's just saying that statement seems reasonable to many people
  144. # [10:56] <Lachy> oh, good, he says "But this is where I believe XML Namespaces went wrong."
  145. # [10:57] <MikeSmith> yeah, a good deal of the rest of blog post is really about saying that it turns our #2 is not so reasonable
  146. # [10:58] <MikeSmith> that there needs to be a distinction between how to name things, and how to name types of things
  147. # [10:59] <Hixie> imho #3 and #5 are equally wrong, and #6 in true but shouldn't be on the list given that namespaces as written doesn't address it properly (and the list is supposed to be "how namespaces ended up being as it is today")
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  150. # [11:31] <zcorpan> http://socialcomputing291.wordpress.com/2010/01/02/mini-project-on-html5with-css-and-javascript/ "it was fun to do it because HTML 5 is so easy to learn" is good; "I have tried to do the offline saving by using manifest functionality of HTML 5 but no luck." less so
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  153. # [11:50] <annevk> weird that abarth would say "You're right, as you always are."
  154. # [11:50] <annevk> I always think he's always right
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  190. # [13:28] <foolip> gsnedders: ping
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  207. # [15:08] <gsnedders> foolip: pong
  208. # [15:08] <gsnedders> Lachy: you back in Oslo?
  209. # [15:23] * gsnedders realizes he can't comment and moderate on one post on /. gah
  210. # [15:28] <Lachy> gsnedders, yes
  211. # [15:29] <gsnedders> Lachy: I CC'd some bugs to you, FYI
  212. # [15:29] <gsnedders> *nudge*
  213. # [15:29] <Lachy> gsnedders, ok. I'll look at those next week
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  219. # [16:41] <gsnedders> hmm, I can't push to html5lib
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  222. # [16:43] <gsnedders> Just get auth failed.
  223. # [16:46] <gsnedders> Oh, just copying and pasting password failed.
  224. # [16:47] <gsnedders> I've got something stuck on my clipboard. WTF?
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  228. # [17:35] <cardona507> so localStorage is tied to my entire domain? meaning that if I have a page in directory A that has something stored in localStorage, that stuff will show up in directory B's localStorage? That is what appears to be happening to me. If so, how would we host multiple apps on a domain without them polluting each other?
  229. # [17:39] <annevk> use a prefix
  230. # [17:46] <cardona507> thanks annevk - what do you mean?
  231. # [17:48] <cardona507> like www2.foo.com?
  232. # [17:48] <cardona507> or foo.bar.com?
  233. # [17:50] * Quits: archtech (i=stanv@83.228.56.37) (Client Quit)
  234. # [17:53] <Philip`> cardona507: Use a prefix in the keys that you use when accessing localStorage
  235. # [17:53] <cardona507> thank Philip` - And happy new year everyone
  236. # [17:53] <Philip`> localStorage.a_whatever = 1; localStorage.b_whatever = 2; // no conflicts
  237. # [17:54] <cardona507> nice to know
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  243. # [18:26] <foolip> gsnedders: I was going to ask if python html5lib is decent enough if I want to parse a file, modify the DOM a bit and then pretty-print the result
  244. # [18:27] <foolip> obviously yes to step one and two, but the last?
  245. # [18:50] <Philip`> foolip: It has an HTML5 serializer, which should do what you want
  246. # [18:50] <Philip`> and it has various configuration options depending on what you consider pretty
  247. # [18:51] <Philip`> (though it never does anything DOM-altering like inserting whitespace to make the output prettier)
  248. # [18:52] <foolip> hmm, guess I'll have to try then
  249. # [18:53] <Philip`> The multipage spec splitter uses html5lib to parser and modify and print pages, which sounds like what you want
  250. # [18:53] <Philip`> s/parser/parse/
  251. # [18:53] <Philip`> (Oh, actually it uses lxml to parse because html5lib is painfully slow)
  252. # [18:54] <Philip`> (http://code.google.com/p/html5/source/browse/trunk/spec-splitter/spec-splitter.py)
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  255. # [19:01] <gsnedders> (But that has occasionally caused Hixie grief, but seeming it makes stuff so much quicker he's perfectly willing to use lxml to parse)
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  263. # [19:31] <foolip> gsnedders: do you have any pretty-priting experience, given that you generate specs in your free time?
  264. # [19:31] <foolip> i.e. does there exist a finished library that is HTML-nostic and knows where it is safe to insert whitespace and not, etc
  265. # [19:33] <foolip> in other news, transforming between different mapping coordinate systems requires a lot of math :/
  266. # [19:36] <Philip`> gsnedders: Hixie doesn't have a choice of parser with the spec-splitter
  267. # [19:36] <Philip`> since (as far as I'm aware) it's running on my server and I've configured it to use one that doesn't steal all my CPUs
  268. # [19:47] <gsnedders> foolip: Basically the only spec I generate in my spare time is HTML5 in testing Anolis :)
  269. # [19:47] <gsnedders> foolip: and I really don't care about what the output looks like
  270. # [19:47] <foolip> ok
  271. # [19:47] <gsnedders> Philip`: He could nag you
  272. # [19:47] <gsnedders> Philip`: He seems to be quite good at that
  273. # [19:57] <Philip`> gsnedders: I could ignore him
  274. # [19:57] <Philip`> gsnedders: I think I'm quite good at that
  275. # [19:57] <Philip`> foolip: For transforming between different mapping coordinate systems, why not use a GIS library that implements it all already? :-)
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  278. # [20:10] <foolip> Philip`: that's plan A, but the math is kind of fun to look into
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  281. # [20:13] * Philip` had fun using PostgreSQL/PostGIS, since he could simply store latitude/longitude in the database and create an index over the transformation into a square grid system
  282. # [20:13] * Quits: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  283. # [20:15] * foolip is trying to help dad convert the swedish RT90 system into something that is useable with google maps
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  286. # [20:39] <cardona507> if I want to see the coords that are returned from getCurrentPosition() in my console, can I? I tried navigator.geolocation.getCurrentPosition().position.coords.latitude; - is it possible?
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  308. # [23:29] <payman`> gsnedders: ping
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  311. # [23:36] <foolip> hey payman`, are you back in lkpg?
  312. # [23:45] <payman`> foolip: no, still in Wien :D
  313. # [23:47] <foolip> having a good time?
  314. # [23:47] <foolip> when are you back?
  315. # [23:48] <payman`> yes, everything is cool! :) i will be back on jan 5th
  316. # [23:49] <gsnedders> payman`: pong
  317. # [23:50] <payman`> gsnedders: backpong!
  318. # [23:58] * Joins: Rik` (n=Rik`@ARennes-352-1-49-40.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  319. # Session Close: Sun Jan 03 00:00:00 2010

The end :)