/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-01-10 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Sun Jan 10 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:05] <jgraham> Argh. Email is not twitter. tinyurl is totally unnecessary
  4. # [00:05] <AryehGregor> Dashiva, just do {| class="prettytable" and define .prettytable at [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], that's what Wikipedia does. We don't add extra styles IIRC, {| just produces <table>.
  5. # [00:06] <jgraham> By which I mean "both irritating and harmful"
  6. # [00:07] <webben> jgraham: Hmm. Some URLs get broken and more than ~75 chars.
  7. # [00:07] <webben> *at more
  8. # [00:07] <jgraham> webben: Personally I find copy and paste to be less bad than playing "guess the destination"
  9. # [00:08] <webben> jgraham: aliases help.
  10. # [00:09] <webben> (you might be able to find a de-tinyifier for your email-consuming software fwiw)
  11. # [00:18] * Quits: AryehGregor (n=Simetric@mediawiki/simetrical) (Remote closed the connection)
  12. # [00:26] * Quits: seventh (i=seventh@189.59.132.85) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  13. # [00:27] * Joins: seventh (i=seventh@189.59.132.85)
  14. # [00:28] * Joins: rauchg (n=rauchg@12.130.119.65)
  15. # [00:34] * Quits: rauchg (n=rauchg@12.130.119.65)
  16. # [00:48] * Quits: workmad3 (n=workmad3@84.45.226.85) (Remote closed the connection)
  17. # [01:07] <Dashiva> If nothing else, the recent events are giving a glimpse at what people really think behind the masks...
  18. # [01:09] <Philip`> They do?
  19. # [01:09] <Philip`> I no longer have any idea what anybody thinks
  20. # [01:09] <Philip`> s/do/are/
  21. # [01:14] * webben is left wondering whether using a bug tracker where everyone on the wg is subscribed by default, but where you could desubscribe from tickets you don't care about, might work better.
  22. # [01:15] <webben> It wouldn't solve the socio-political problems; but it would at least keep information (or ranting ;) ) about each given subject in a single place and allow people to detach themselves from discussions they're not interested in.
  23. # [01:16] <Dashiva> There is a lot of bug spam too, though
  24. # [01:16] <webben> Dashiva: I think a good system would allow admins to prevent people getting such spam.
  25. # [01:17] <Dashiva> Well, then they wouldn't be subscribed to all bugs
  26. # [01:17] <webben> Dashiva: What do you mean by "spam" in this case?
  27. # [01:17] <Dashiva> Nonsensical reports, help questions, obviously invalid bugs
  28. # [01:18] <Dashiva> The "good system" you describe is what we're supposed to have, with marking bugs as non-editoral making them go to public-html
  29. # [01:19] <webben> I think there's an advantage in a system that groups all discussion on a topic in one place.
  30. # [01:19] <webben> forking discussions of interesting bugs to a general mailing list doesn't do that.
  31. # [01:20] <webben> I can see there's a problem with "spam" as you describe. If that can be moderated without too much socio-political friction, then I guess the ideal system would subscribe everyone to non-"spam" bugs as decided by some human moderators.
  32. # [01:21] <Dashiva> Yes, that's what is supposed to happen
  33. # [01:21] <Dashiva> Only without making every WG member a bugzilla user
  34. # [01:21] <webben> I thought that bugzilla was supposed to be used to summarize relevant arguments from the list?
  35. # [01:22] <webben> That doesn't seem probable.
  36. # [01:22] <webben> (It's onerous and contentious.)
  37. # [01:24] <webben> What I'm suggesting is similar to the approach Hixie uses, as I understand, where he simply files away mail under a topic heading.
  38. # [01:24] <Dashiva> As I see it, public-html is discussion, bugzilla is for editor response, and issues are for overruling the editor
  39. # [01:24] <webben> until he's ready to deal with the topic.
  40. # [01:24] <webben> Dashiva: Yep, that's the process as I understand it. Not persuaded it's an ideal one though ;)
  41. # [01:25] <Dashiva> Not ideal at all, but I doubt you can do better given the WG membership :)
  42. # [01:25] * Joins: nattokirai (n=nattokir@y224241.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  43. # [01:28] * webben has never really bought into the mailing lists as effective discussion venues though. There's a lot of noise thanks to permathreads where people repeat old arguments - that might be less likely to happen if they had previous posts immediately above them.
  44. # [01:28] <webben> (Granted you see contentious issues in the Mozilla Bugzilla where people don't seem to read previous posts.)
  45. # [01:28] <Dashiva> You mean like how there's never any repeat discussion on wikipedia? :)
  46. # [01:29] * webben has never followed a really contentious discussion on Wikipedia - I'm sure they exist though. ;)
  47. # [01:29] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  48. # [01:30] <webben> possibly some sort of rating/bolding/highlighting system might help crystalize the arguments people need to address.
  49. # [01:30] <Dashiva> I'm a little bit jaded.
  50. # [01:30] <Dashiva> The wiki was supposed to be a place to summarize arguments, and that didn't really go anywhere
  51. # [01:30] * webben doesn't blame you for being jaded.
  52. # [01:31] <webben> I suspect the whole approach of trying to summarize arguments is unrealistic.
  53. # [01:31] <webben> (unless, maybe, you're going to have a straw poll on a subject)
  54. # [01:32] <webben> that's why I suggest a process where all discussion on a topic is just dumped in the same place, perhaps with a way to highlight bits someone thought was important.
  55. # [01:33] <Philip`> Sounds like the IRC logs
  56. # [01:33] <webben> Philip`: Very much.
  57. # [01:33] <webben> Though organized by topic.
  58. # [01:33] <Dashiva> Only evil people use IRC
  59. # [01:50] * Quits: tametick (n=chatzill@chello084114134061.3.15.vie.surfer.at) ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20100106054634]")
  60. # [02:01] * Quits: svl (n=me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) ("And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.")
  61. # [02:23] * Joins: Rik`_ (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  62. # [02:35] * Joins: cohitre (n=cohitre@c-24-18-158-106.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  63. # [02:36] * Parts: cohitre (n=cohitre@c-24-18-158-106.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  64. # [02:37] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  65. # [02:38] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  66. # [02:39] * Quits: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  67. # [02:39] * Rik`_ is now known as Rik`
  68. # [02:43] * Quits: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  69. # [02:54] * vvv is now known as vvv-away
  70. # [02:57] <Lachy> This whole spec splitting debacle has just gone to show that there are clear flaws in the way the process was set up, yet instead of people complaining about the broken process, they're blaming Hixie for somehow not following it.
  71. # [03:00] <cardona507> what are some of the flaws in the process that you see?
  72. # [03:02] <Lachy> The process allows bugs for non-trivial issues to be filed in bugzilla, where they clearly don't get as much attention as a proper WG discussion, but the process allows the editor to review the arguments in the bug and make an initial assessment and make relevant changes
  73. # [03:02] <Lachy> for trvial bugs, that process is not a problem. Hixie does it all the time.
  74. # [03:03] <Lachy> But with a major issue, like requesting the removal of a section, there are two choices. Either Hixie rejects the idea, and someone can choose to escalate it (which ends up giving it the attention it deserved in the first place)
  75. # [03:04] <Lachy> Or Hixie can accept the proposal and make the change, but then suffer serious blow back from the rest of the WG as most were not involved in the bugzilla discussion, due to the difficulty of following those bugs compared with the mailing list.
  76. # [03:05] <Lachy> My e-mail on the issue basically said, major and potentiall controversial issues should at least have a first round of discussion on the mailing list, optionally opening a bug in parallel for tracking purposes, but where at least initial significant discussion takes place on the list
  77. # [03:06] <Lachy> that allows us to get a rough idea of how the group feels about the issue
  78. # [03:08] <Lachy> of course, public-html would be a lot healthier if it wasn't so buried in process discussions all the time, which is effecitly the cause of us having to set up bugzilla to keep real technical issues separate from the nonsense
  79. # [03:08] <cardona507> I guess an argument might be "but what if the bug didn't get opened in parallel? and then the conversation petered out but there was not bug to force action"
  80. # [03:08] <cardona507> *not a bug
  81. # [03:09] <Lachy> then someone can open a bug, and cite the major technical arguments for/against and include an initial change proposal. That allows the editor to review the bug and past discussion and make an initial decision
  82. # [03:09] <Lachy> and then follow the rest of the process as normal from that point onwards
  83. # [03:10] <cardona507> so you are basically saying that you would like it if people could just discuss such major issues before soley relying on bugzilla?
  84. # [03:10] <webben> Keeping all technical discussion under bugs might reduce the amount of process discussion, since it would basically be OT for a bug.
  85. # [03:11] <Lachy> webben, it doesn't help to reduce it on the list, and so real technical discussion which is harder for people to follow in bugzilla gets lost, while everyone still gets flooded with process discussions
  86. # [03:12] <webben> I think that bugzilla is making technical discussion hard to follow is a consequence of the tracker software and how it's being used, not an intrinsic problem with bug-oriented discussion
  87. # [03:12] <Lachy> this is they the WHATWG model was so much healthier for years before the W3C got involved. It's just gone downhill from there.
  88. # [03:12] <webben> I think the WHATWG model worked reasonably well for people involved throughout the process.
  89. # [03:13] <webben> It worked less well for newcomers and people intermittently involved the longer the process went on, since it became harder to follow why decisions had been taken/what relevant information had already been presented.
  90. # [03:13] <webben> The mailing list search was never very user-friendly.
  91. # [03:14] <Lachy> anyway, I'm in pain from my elbow injury and I'm going to bed. good night
  92. # [03:14] <webben> I don't from a pure process perspective the W3C-WHATWG partnership has improved the situation though.
  93. # [03:15] <webben> Lachy: Good night! Hope that heals soon!
  94. # [03:15] <cardona507> night Lachy
  95. # [03:23] * Quits: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@ip-95-222-120-117.unitymediagroup.de) ("404")
  96. # [04:03] * Joins: GarethAdams|Home (n=GarethAd@pdpc/supporter/active/GarethAdams)
  97. # [04:04] <cardona507> Anyone know why geolocation isn't in the web applications 1.0 spec?
  98. # [04:25] * Joins: cedricv (n=cedric@112.199.130.135)
  99. # [04:28] * Quits: GarethAdams|Home (n=GarethAd@pdpc/supporter/active/GarethAdams)
  100. # [04:31] * Joins: GarethAdams|Home (n=GarethAd@pdpc/supporter/active/GarethAdams)
  101. # [04:32] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  102. # [04:43] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  103. # [04:44] * Joins: AryehGregor (n=Simetric@mediawiki/simetrical)
  104. # [04:46] * Quits: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  105. # [04:53] * Joins: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  106. # [05:15] * Quits: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  107. # [05:16] * Quits: Kuruman__ (n=Kuruma@p22091-ipngn1401marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) ("Leaving...")
  108. # [05:18] * Joins: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  109. # [05:28] * Joins: yutak_home (n=kee@N038037.ppp.dion.ne.jp)
  110. # [06:02] * Joins: rauchg (n=rauchg@99-7-171-49.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  111. # [06:09] * Quits: rauchg (n=rauchg@99-7-171-49.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  112. # [06:21] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Remote closed the connection)
  113. # [06:22] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  114. # [06:24] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  115. # [06:24] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  116. # [06:28] * Quits: nattokirai (n=nattokir@y224241.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  117. # [06:28] * Quits: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  118. # [06:28] * Joins: nattokirai (n=nattokir@y224241.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  119. # [06:28] * Joins: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  120. # [06:44] * Quits: nattokirai (n=nattokir@y224241.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  121. # [07:11] * Quits: erikvold (n=erikvold@S01060024012860e9.gv.shawcable.net) ("me so sleepy")
  122. # [07:12] * Joins: erikvold (n=erikvold@S01060024012860e9.gv.shawcable.net)
  123. # [07:12] * Quits: erikvold (n=erikvold@S01060024012860e9.gv.shawcable.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  124. # [07:28] * Joins: erikvold (n=erikvold@S01060024012860e9.gv.shawcable.net)
  125. # [07:53] * Joins: erlehmann (n=erlehman@82.113.106.230)
  126. # [08:28] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  127. # [08:29] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  128. # [08:36] * Quits: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  129. # [09:53] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  130. # [10:28] * Joins: tametick (n=chatzill@chello084114134061.3.15.vie.surfer.at)
  131. # [10:36] * Joins: maikmerten (n=maikmert@port-92-201-1-73.dynamic.qsc.de)
  132. # [10:55] * Joins: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38)
  133. # [10:58] * vvv-away is now known as vvv
  134. # [11:19] * Joins: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  135. # [11:23] * Joins: nattokirai (n=nattokir@y224241.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  136. # [11:50] * Quits: nattokirai (n=nattokir@y224241.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  137. # [11:57] * Joins: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  138. # [12:12] * Quits: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  139. # [12:14] * Joins: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  140. # [12:36] <Hixie> hm
  141. # [12:36] * Quits: dimich_ (n=dimich@98.125.224.126)
  142. # [12:37] <Hixie> it strikes me that an appcache manifest served over https: can cause a page from another server served over https: to be cached, even if that page is marked no-store
  143. # [12:37] <Hixie> i guess i should add same-origin checks for manifests served over https:
  144. # [12:42] * Joins: svl (n=me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  145. # [12:46] * Joins: gratz|home (n=gratz@cpc3-brig15-2-0-cust237.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  146. # [12:51] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Remote closed the connection)
  147. # [12:51] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  148. # [13:25] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  149. # [13:25] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  150. # [13:53] * AryehGregor just sent an e-mail as "Simetrical" instead of "Aryeh Gregor" for some reason . . . thanks, Gmail?
  151. # [13:54] <AryehGregor> Actually, it was from simetrical@gmail.com and not simetrical+w3c@gmail.com, so I'm not sure it will even get through.
  152. # [14:20] <Philip`> AryehGregor: It'll send you a thing asking if you're willing to have your mails archived, if you haven't used that address before
  153. # [14:20] <Philip`> and if you say no then the message won't be sent
  154. # [14:20] <Philip`> but otherwise it should get through
  155. # [14:21] <Philip`> (Assuming you mean public-html, not the whatwg list)
  156. # [14:32] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@cpc2-acto9-0-0-cust364.brnt.cable.ntl.com)
  157. # [14:34] * Joins: nattokirai (n=nattokir@y224241.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  158. # [14:34] * Quits: nattokirai (n=nattokir@y224241.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Client Quit)
  159. # [14:38] <AryehGregor> Philip`, it was www-style, actually.
  160. # [14:39] <Philip`> Ah
  161. # [14:39] <Philip`> Same thing there, I think
  162. # [14:40] * Quits: tametick (n=chatzill@chello084114134061.3.15.vie.surfer.at) (Remote closed the connection)
  163. # [14:40] * Joins: tametick (n=chatzill@chello084114134061.3.15.vie.surfer.at)
  164. # [14:43] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.82.206)
  165. # [14:48] <Utkarsh> I had a question. If I need to group several <article> with a parent element, should I use <section>?
  166. # [14:50] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-129-255.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  167. # [14:53] * Joins: workmad3 (n=workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  168. # [14:54] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-129-255.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Client Quit)
  169. # [14:55] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-129-255.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  170. # [14:55] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-129-255.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Client Quit)
  171. # [14:56] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-129-255.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  172. # [15:02] <webben> Utkarsh: Depends.
  173. # [15:03] <webben> Utkarsh: What is the relationship between the articles?
  174. # [15:05] * Joins: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
  175. # [15:06] * Quits: workmad3 (n=workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote closed the connection)
  176. # [15:07] <Utkarsh> well, I'm laying out the frontpage of a blog. I saw one site enclosing all the <article> in a section. I had earlier used a div#container for this.
  177. # [15:09] * Joins: rits1050 (n=rijk@rijk.xs4all.nl)
  178. # [15:09] * Parts: rits1050 (n=rijk@rijk.xs4all.nl)
  179. # [15:11] * Joins: workmad3 (n=workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  180. # [15:27] * Quits: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  181. # [15:30] * Quits: cedricv (n=cedric@112.199.130.135)
  182. # [15:37] * Quits: othermaciej (n=mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  183. # [15:37] <webben> Utkarsh: I think "div" remains most appropriate for that.
  184. # [15:37] * Joins: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.84.238)
  185. # [15:37] <webben> Utkarsh: "A general rule is that the section element is appropriate only if the element's contents would be listed explicitly in the document's outline."
  186. # [15:38] <webben> Utkarsh: the grouping of articles on the frontpage of the blog doesn't seem like it would normally get a distinct entry in the document's outline.
  187. # [15:39] <webben> Utkarsh: See also the example for the 'nav' element: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/sections.html#the-nav-element
  188. # [15:40] <_Utkarsh> webben: ah, I think using a div would be more appropriate then, they've used that in the example too
  189. # [15:55] * Quits: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.82.206) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  190. # [15:55] * Quits: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@c-24-2-153-55.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  191. # [16:00] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  192. # [16:01] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  193. # [16:33] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.84.74)
  194. # [16:35] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  195. # [16:35] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  196. # [16:36] * Quits: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.84.238) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  197. # [16:39] * Joins: myakura (n=myakura@p3213-ipbf4202marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  198. # [16:45] * Quits: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.84.74) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  199. # [16:48] * Joins: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@ip-95-222-120-117.unitymediagroup.de)
  200. # [16:53] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.84.225)
  201. # [16:55] * Joins: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  202. # [17:19] * Quits: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.84.225) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  203. # [17:24] * Quits: riven (n=riven@53518387.cable.casema.nl) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  204. # [17:24] * Joins: riven (n=riven@53518387.cable.casema.nl)
  205. # [17:27] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.85.1)
  206. # [17:28] * Quits: riven (n=riven@53518387.cable.casema.nl) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  207. # [17:28] * Joins: riven (n=riven@53518387.cable.casema.nl)
  208. # [17:31] * Quits: riven (n=riven@53518387.cable.casema.nl) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  209. # [17:31] * Joins: riven (n=riven@53518387.cable.casema.nl)
  210. # [17:38] * Quits: workmad3 (n=workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote closed the connection)
  211. # [17:45] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-129-255.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  212. # [17:46] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-162-14.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  213. # [17:47] * Quits: vvv (n=vvv@mediawiki/VasilievVV) ("KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3410, sources date: 20090703, built on: 2009/08/12 22:29:13 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/")
  214. # [17:58] * Quits: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@ip-95-222-120-117.unitymediagroup.de) ("404")
  215. # [18:03] * Joins: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.85.100)
  216. # [18:13] * Quits: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.85.1) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  217. # [18:32] * Quits: maikmerten (n=maikmert@port-92-201-1-73.dynamic.qsc.de) (Remote closed the connection)
  218. # [18:41] * Joins: tndH_ (n=Rob@cpc2-leed18-0-0-cust427.leed.cable.ntl.com)
  219. # [18:42] * Quits: tndH (n=Rob@cpc2-leed18-0-0-cust427.leed.cable.ntl.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  220. # [18:42] * tndH_ is now known as tndH
  221. # [18:57] * Parts: peritus (n=andreas@h-150-131.A163.priv.bahnhof.se)
  222. # [19:01] <Dashiva> karlcow: Wouldn't translation be more reliable with a single document? With multiple there might be differences in terminology because it's not immediately obvious the same term appears in multiple documents
  223. # [19:13] * Joins: r0wb0t (n=r0wb0t@76-218-201-22.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  224. # [19:14] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  225. # [19:14] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  226. # [19:19] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.81.69)
  227. # [19:20] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  228. # [19:20] * Quits: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  229. # [19:20] * Quits: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote closed the connection)
  230. # [19:21] * Joins: workmad3 (n=workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  231. # [19:23] * Quits: r0wb0t (n=r0wb0t@76-218-201-22.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  232. # [19:30] * Joins: paul_irish (n=paul_iri@c-71-192-163-128.hsd1.nh.comcast.net)
  233. # [19:32] * Quits: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.85.100) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  234. # [19:40] * Joins: vvv (n=vvv@mediawiki/VasilievVV)
  235. # [19:42] * Joins: mat_t (n=mattomas@62-64-152-126.dynamic.dial.as9105.com)
  236. # [19:42] * Quits: mat_t (n=mattomas@62-64-152-126.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) (Remote closed the connection)
  237. # [19:54] * Joins: jwalden (n=waldo@adsl-71-147-38-186.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
  238. # [20:09] * Joins: flea (n=flea@unaffiliated/flea)
  239. # [20:19] * Quits: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  240. # [20:21] * Joins: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  241. # [20:27] * Joins: Rik` (n=Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  242. # [20:28] <karlcow> Dashiva: from experience, small documents get translated big ones no. When the document is too big, you end up doing a terminology because you are working in team.
  243. # [20:29] <karlcow> most of the time, translators are volunteer people
  244. # [20:33] * Quits: myakura (n=myakura@p3213-ipbf4202marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) ("Leaving...")
  245. # [20:33] * Joins: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.175)
  246. # [20:38] <Dashiva> But it's not like you couldn't translate one section at a time, or one section per person
  247. # [20:42] <karlcow> Dashiva: it's what we do. it still needs a terminology. it is a team work, requires coordination, etc. (fwiw: I have been translated a few w3c specs more than 8 years ago as a volunteer)
  248. # [20:44] * Quits: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.81.69) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  249. # [20:48] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.32)
  250. # [20:59] * Quits: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.175) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  251. # [21:08] * Joins: mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  252. # [21:21] * Joins: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.185)
  253. # [21:30] * Joins: roc (n=roc@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz)
  254. # [21:32] * Quits: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.32) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  255. # [21:43] * Quits: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.185) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  256. # [21:43] * Joins: ttepasse (n=ttepas--@dslb-084-060-025-019.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  257. # [21:44] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  258. # [21:45] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  259. # [21:55] * Quits: workmad3 (n=workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote closed the connection)
  260. # [21:55] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.81.67)
  261. # [21:55] * Joins: rauchg (n=rauchg@99-7-171-49.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  262. # [22:03] * Quits: ROBOd (n=robod@89.122.216.38) ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  263. # [22:17] * Quits: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.81.67) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  264. # [22:20] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.147)
  265. # [22:22] * Quits: mlpug (n=mlpug@a88-115-164-40.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Remote closed the connection)
  266. # [22:23] * Quits: seventh (i=seventh@189.59.132.85) ("...")
  267. # [22:33] * Joins: seventh (i=seventh@189.59.203.94)
  268. # [22:45] * Quits: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.147) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  269. # [22:46] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.253)
  270. # [23:07] * Joins: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.81.3)
  271. # [23:07] * Quits: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.253) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  272. # [23:14] * Joins: cardona507 (n=cardona5@c-67-180-160-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  273. # [23:17] * Quits: Phae (n=phaeness@cpc2-acto9-0-0-cust364.brnt.cable.ntl.com)
  274. # [23:19] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.81.59)
  275. # [23:20] * Quits: Maurice (i=copyman@5ED548D4.cable.ziggo.nl)
  276. # [23:26] * Quits: karlcow (n=karl@nerval.la-grange.net) ("O public road, I say back I am not afraid to leave you, yet I love you, you express me better than I can express myself.")
  277. # [23:30] * Quits: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-162-14.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  278. # [23:30] * Quits: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  279. # [23:30] * Joins: gavin_ (n=gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  280. # [23:33] * Quits: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.81.3) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  281. # [23:33] * Joins: _Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.81.59)
  282. # [23:35] * Quits: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.81.59) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  283. # [23:35] * Joins: karlcow (n=karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  284. # [23:36] <Lachy> Hixie, whatwg.org isn't responding
  285. # [23:40] <karlcow> http://zambetti.com/projects/seriality/
  286. # [23:40] <karlcow> >Seriality is a browser plug-in that enables electronic devices to speak directly with Web pages.
  287. # [23:40] <karlcow> >As an open project, documentation and source code is available on the project website. Seriality is written in C/C++ and uses the widely-supported Netscape Plug-in API by way of the Nixsya project. It is POSIX-compliant and should be portable to a number of platforms and browsers.
  288. # [23:44] * Joins: MikeSmith (n=MikeSmit@EM114-48-5-74.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  289. # [23:44] <cardona507> cool
  290. # [23:58] * Joins: Utkarsh (n=admin@117.201.80.47)
  291. # Session Close: Mon Jan 11 00:00:00 2010

The end :)