/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-01-23 / end

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  23. # [00:45] <Hixie> huh, the - key on this keyboard also hits f12
  24. # [00:45] <Hixie> how odd
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  26. # [00:51] <Hixie> i should seriously consider putting this keyboard through the dishwasher
  27. # [00:51] <Hixie> it's ridiculously dirty
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  29. # [01:05] <shepazu> hsivonen: I never blog anymore :(
  30. # [01:05] <shepazu> no time, sadly
  31. # [01:07] <shepazu> Google is schizophrenic about SVG... they have some projects that use and promote it, but put little effort into browserside or mobile development
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  68. # [04:41] <karlcow> by curiosity I tried to render the same origin algorithm http://www.la-grange.net/2010/01/22/same-origin-algorithm.png
  69. # [04:41] <karlcow> might be wrong
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  73. # [05:26] <TabAtkins> karlcow: Yeah, it's wrong. The opaque-identifier portion should completely separate from the same-components section. If they're opaque, they don't *have* components.
  74. # [05:27] <karlcow> TabAtkins: ah. I'll modify. It is not clear in the prose of the spec I have the feeling.
  75. # [05:27] * karlcow likes to visualize to understand
  76. # [05:27] <TabAtkins> If you translate it from prose directly to if/then code in your favorite programming language, it becomes very clear. ^_^
  77. # [05:27] <karlcow> (python)
  78. # [05:29] <karlcow> but my favorite languages are 1. fr:poetry 2. graphic_representation
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  82. # [05:54] <karlcow> TabAtkins: thanks
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  139. # [10:50] <Hixie> huh, brief power black out in mountain view
  140. # [10:50] <Hixie> i wonder what that was about
  141. # [10:53] <erlehmann> my bet: the PROJECT has escaped ;)
  142. # [10:53] <erlehmann> cue x-files melody
  143. # [10:55] <Hixie> nobody twittered about it that i can see, so... maybe just the complex i'm in
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  146. # [11:06] <Hixie> i should get a UPS
  147. # [11:06] <Hixie> that power outage ruined by 250+ day uptime
  148. # [11:06] <Hixie> (on the box linux box routing all my network traffic, which i installed about 250 days ago)
  149. # [11:07] <Philip`> I wonder if development of the 'uptime' program was secretly supported by the people who make UPS devices
  150. # [11:08] <Hixie> hah
  151. # [11:09] <Hixie> are UPSes any good these days? 15 years ago they could barely do 7 minutes for your typical load
  152. # [11:10] <Hixie> wow, apparently not
  153. # [11:10] <Hixie> 3 minutes?!
  154. # [11:10] <Hixie> 5 minutes?!
  155. # [11:11] <Hixie> $378 for less than 7 minutes at barely 1kW?
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  157. # [11:14] <Hixie> my _iPod_ can last a whole day, and it fits in my pocket
  158. # [11:15] <erlehmann> my g1 lasts a whole hour, and it fits in my - OH WAIT :D
  159. # [11:15] <Hixie> surely something that can be put under a desk, that doesn't need to handle continuous drain-charge cycles, and that is plugged into the mains most of the day, can do better
  160. # [11:16] <Hixie> i wonder how much petrol would be needed for a generator to support a 1kW load for an hour
  161. # [11:17] <Hixie> surely we have rechargeable materials with more efficient power densities than petrol by now
  162. # [11:17] * Hixie grumbles at hardware people :-P
  163. # [11:17] <erlehmann> as if
  164. # [11:18] <Hixie> i was buying a printer recently and as far as i could tell, they essentially haven't improved in 10 years
  165. # [11:19] <Hixie> and now i find UPSes haven't improved in like 15 years
  166. # [11:19] <Hixie> i know chips improve, and laptops improve, and software sure has improved, and network connectivity has improved
  167. # [11:19] <Hixie> so wtf are the printer and UPS people doing?!
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  169. # [11:22] <erlehmann> working on their uranium-powered printers in their secret lair ? ;)
  170. # [11:22] <Hixie> i hope so
  171. # [11:22] <Hixie> when they finally release something new, it had better be effing AWESOME.
  172. # [11:23] <erlehmann> like bre-pettis-AWESOME :D
  173. # [11:23] <erlehmann> thats it. printer people worked on adding more dimensions to their plotters !
  174. # [11:24] <Hixie> i expect hte next gen printers to be able to print onto a whole ream of paper at once without moving any of the sheets, so that you just stick a ream in, and then you pick it up three seconds later and the whole ream is fully printed
  175. # [11:24] <Hixie> DOUBLE-SIDED.
  176. # [11:25] <Hixie> and the next gen UPS had better just be a cable you can replace your current cable with
  177. # [11:25] <erlehmann> nono, they print the paper as well
  178. # [11:25] <Hixie> which lasts 72 hours on one charge, charges in 5 seconds, and can support 10MW loads.
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  180. # [11:26] <erlehmann> looks like you're going for an Uranium Power Supply there …
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  184. # [11:39] <Lachy> wow, the comments from some of the CSSWG memebers regarding selectors api on public-webapps/www-style seem surprisingly confused about how it works.
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  186. # [11:40] <Lachy> also about the use cases that are being addressed, but that's slightly more understandable if they haven't actively followed its development
  187. # [11:42] <Lachy> I suppose I should clearly document all of those somewhere, outside of the mailing list discussion, for easy reference.
  188. # [11:42] <Lachy> I'll put it on the whatwg wiki
  189. # [11:48] <Lachy> Hixie, build your own UPS out of an array of car batteries. They should last quite a while, if you have enough.
  190. # [11:49] <Philip`> You could just use a laptop
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  193. # [11:52] <Lachy> http://www.dansdata.com/upsupgrade.htm or http://www.dansdata.com/diyups.htm
  194. # [11:55] <Hixie> Philip`: the laptops didn't die, but it turns out they're useless without the wireless router and the cable modem
  195. # [11:56] <Hixie> Philip`: and the mac mini stops being entertaining when it, its media disk, its speakers, and its screen all go off at once
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  197. # [12:00] <Lachy> Hixie, is a mac mini particularly entertaining for some reason when it's on?
  198. # [12:01] <Lachy> perhaps if you use it as a media centre
  199. # [12:01] <Hixie> it's my tv replacement
  200. # [12:01] <Lachy> ok
  201. # [12:01] <Hixie> and music player
  202. # [12:02] <Hixie> and all around entertainment system
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  204. # [12:06] <Philip`> You could use laptops with one laptop acting as a wireless router, connected to the internet via the mobile phone network
  205. # [12:06] <Philip`> Also, you could entertain yourself by reading a book
  206. # [12:06] <Philip`> So there's really no reason to worry about power cuts at all
  207. # [12:07] <Philip`> (Well, for the book you might need some candles too)
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  209. # [12:08] <Huvet> where can I find the documentation for html5lib?
  210. # [12:10] <Philip`> Huvet: import html5lib; help(html5lib)
  211. # [12:10] <Philip`> (from Python interpreter)
  212. # [12:10] <Philip`> seems to be about the only documentation, given that the wiki seems to have lost its pages
  213. # [12:11] <Huvet> ok, thanks
  214. # [12:13] <Hixie> Philip`: what are these "candles" you speak of
  215. # [12:13] <Hixie> isn't that a unit of brightness
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  217. # [12:16] <Lachy> candles are a fire hazard, especially because you need a few hundred of them to replicate the amount of light obtained from a decent 100W incandescent bulb (or equivalent).
  218. # [12:22] <Philip`> It's possible to see quite adequately without needing the equivalent of a 100W incandescent bulb
  219. # [12:23] * Philip` isn't suggesting using them as an identical replacement for current electrical lighting systems
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  221. # [12:30] <jgraham> Huvet: There is some documentation somewhere but it got lost at some point
  222. # [12:32] <jgraham> http://html5lib.googlecode.com/svn/wiki/UserDocumentation.wiki
  223. # [12:32] <jgraham> (it may not be entirely up to date)
  224. # [12:33] <Huvet> ah, thanks
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  226. # [12:39] <Philip`> jgraham: Do you know why that doesn't show up on the web page?
  227. # [12:40] <Philip`> (http://code.google.com/p/html5lib/w/list links to UserDocumentation but says page not found)
  228. # [12:40] <Philip`> Maybe it's a SVN vs Hg thing?
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  232. # [12:47] <Lachy> Philip`, trying to read in rooms that have less light than that from a 100W bulb, or better yet, long fluroescent tube lighting, can get quite tiring for my eyes.
  233. # [12:49] <Dashiva> Well, you could use the light to illuminate the book and not the entire room
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  236. # [12:53] * Philip` has a 20W desk lamp that's easily more than adequate
  237. # [12:59] <Lachy> I know what everyone finds comfortable is different, but I can't work with desk lamps. They give an uncomfortable bright spot while the rest of the room is comparitively dark.
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  239. # [13:07] <jgraham> Philip`: I guess it must be but I think it worked for a while after we switched (but I could be wrong about that)
  240. # [13:07] <jgraham> (however I blame Google anyway)
  241. # [13:07] <Philip`> Lachy: You need smaller rooms
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  297. # [17:14] <Dashiva> Is JF saying that if we can't be sure about author intent, we should abandon all attempts at doing anything useful?
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  304. # [17:43] <TabAtkins> Dashiva: It's strange, but that's the vibe I get too.
  305. # [17:45] <TabAtkins> I'm guessing it's a particular manifestation of "perfect is the enemy of good".
  306. # [17:50] <webben> Dashiva: I don't think so.
  307. # [17:51] <Dashiva> I can't imagine he would, but I'm having trouble reading it any other way
  308. # [17:51] <webben> I think he's just saying the spec should not imply feasibility of "non-existent techniques".
  309. # [17:54] <webben> and taking the phrase "image analysis heuristics" to imply technology that can determine author intent.
  310. # [17:54] * Parts: Huvet (n=Emil@c-0acfe555.07-131-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  311. # [17:55] <webben> I think that's a stretch, but meh.
  312. # [17:55] <Dashiva> Yes, that
  313. # [17:55] <Dashiva> is reasonable, until someone tells you that's not what it means :)
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  315. # [18:00] <webben> Dashiva: Yeah, but even from that point, you can still make assertions that the spec's language implies something different that what is meant (or is ambiguous).
  316. # [18:01] <webben> Dashiva: hence his citing of a dictionary definition of heuristics, I guess.
  317. # [18:03] <TabAtkins> Protip: As soon as you're citing dictionary definitions, you've lost the argument.
  318. # [18:03] <webben> Not really sure that's true.
  319. # [18:04] <webben> Not when you're discussing what does a blob of text imply, anyhow.
  320. # [18:04] <webben> That is, there's a difference between an argument about essences and an argument about phrasing.
  321. # [18:04] <TabAtkins> I find that even in that sort of dicussion, whipping out a dictionary means the argument is officially over and you're on the losing side.
  322. # [18:04] <TabAtkins> It's like godwining.
  323. # [18:05] <webben> A /better/ argument, I find is to point to examples of other readers reading it that way.
  324. # [18:05] <webben> But - that's more expensive.
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  343. # [20:13] <foolip> microdata toy for all the children: http://foolip.org/microdatajs/demo/live.html
  344. # [20:14] <paul_irish> fun!
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  347. # [20:19] <Dashiva> That provert is new to me
  348. # [20:20] <Dashiva> *proverb
  349. # [20:24] <TabAtkins> foolip: On the vcard and ical tabs, you mean "itemtype"
  350. # [20:26] <foolip> TabAtkins: thanks, typo fixed
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The end :)