/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-03-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Mar 01 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  40. # [04:06] <Hixie> huh
  41. # [04:07] <Hixie> ever since he retracted his formal objection, larry's been posting to the public-html list with a different (non-adobe) e-mail address
  42. # [04:07] <mpilgrim> AryehGregor: I can't find an authoritative statement on chrome.blogspot.com, blog.chromium.org, or dev.chromium.org about supported codecs
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  44. # [04:07] <mpilgrim> which surprises me
  45. # [04:08] <mpilgrim> and since i'm on the chrome developer relations team, i will personally find out what each product supports and blog about it in an authoritative place
  46. # [04:10] <mpilgrim> for <video>, chromium only supports theora/vorbis in an ogg container
  47. # [04:10] <boblet> http://000000book.com/ GML; graffiti markup language (yep, there’s a markup language for that)
  48. # [04:10] <mpilgrim> for <audio>, chromium only supports vorbis
  49. # [04:10] <mpilgrim> UNLESS
  50. # [04:10] <mpilgrim> you install the non-free codecs
  51. # [04:11] <mpilgrim> this is packaged in the ubuntu PPA as chromium-codecs-ffmpeg-nonfree.deb
  52. # [04:11] <mpilgrim> then chromium will supports exactly what chrome supports
  53. # [04:11] <mpilgrim> but i'm not exactly sure what that is
  54. # [04:11] <mpilgrim> it includes H.264/AAC in an MP4 container
  55. # [04:11] <mpilgrim> for <video>
  56. # [04:12] <mpilgrim> it also includes MP3 for <audio>
  57. # [04:12] <mpilgrim> i believe chrome also supports MP3 tracks in a video
  58. # [04:12] <mpilgrim> but i will double-check that
  59. # [04:13] <mpilgrim> and since it's based on ffmpeg, i *think* it supports up to and including High Profile H.264, all profiles of AAC, etc.
  60. # [04:13] <mpilgrim> but i will double-check that too
  61. # [04:15] <mpilgrim> i have no information on if, when, or whether chrome will add support for VP8 or any of the other On2 codecs that we just acquired
  62. # [04:18] <mpilgrim> neither chromium nor chrome use gstreamer, directshow, quicktime, or any other media backends
  63. # [04:18] <mpilgrim> we built our own, some details are here: http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/video
  64. # [04:19] <mpilgrim> there is a bug asking us to rip that out and use gstreamer instead: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=32861
  65. # [04:21] <mpilgrim> it's marked "WONTFIX"
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  117. # [08:22] <JonathanNeal> hey all
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  140. # [09:59] <jgraham> http://blog.mozilla.com/webdev/2010/02/25/new-python-library-bleach/
  141. # [10:01] <Philip`> I thought for a moment that was a Python port of http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Acme-Bleach-1.12/lib/Acme/Bleach.pm
  142. # [10:02] <jgraham> Philip`: People with that level of evil malice are all perl programmers
  143. # [10:05] <othermaciej> Philip`: that is evil
  144. # [10:09] <roc> oooff
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  173. # [11:16] <annevk> some of these guys on the hybi list aah
  174. # [11:17] <hsivonen> I guess I should still be glad I don't read the hybi list
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  176. # [11:22] <Dashiva> hsivonen: Careful or annevk might start quoting it :P
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  178. # [11:23] <annevk> Dashiva, you'd like that, wouldn't you? :p
  179. # [11:24] <Dashiva> Pssh, I can read it for myself :P
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  182. # [11:36] <annevk> unrelated to what I said above, Julian on hybi: "Hm, no. Break backwards compatibility if it brings clear benefits, and the damage is not too big."
  183. # [11:36] <othermaciej> oh no, there's more posts on hybi
  184. # [11:36] <annevk> jaja
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  186. # [11:41] <othermaciej> I should really teach myself not to post to standards lists late at night
  187. # [11:41] <othermaciej> comes out snarky too often
  188. # [11:41] <gsnedders> othermaciej? Snarky? NEver!
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  190. # [11:43] <othermaciej> there's also return of the son of the versioning permathread on public-html
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  192. # [11:48] <roc> someone needs to write "Extending The Web Platform For Dummies"
  193. # [11:48] * jgraham looks at public-html notices a thread called (roughly) html-versioning vs. longdesc, wonders who came up with the idea of permathread deathmatches as a way or resolving issues
  194. # [11:50] <annevk> also something about Web Platform protocol/API/markup language design for dummies
  195. # [11:50] <othermaciej> jgraham: that was Larry's idea
  196. # [11:52] <othermaciej> if we could really arrange to have two permathreads enter, and only only one will leave, I would be all for it
  197. # [11:52] <othermaciej> but I fear that two will enter, and three will leave
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  199. # [11:52] <Hixie> rofl at othermaciej's last e-mail
  200. # [11:53] <othermaciej> Hixie: that was probably the one I shouldn't have sent
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  203. # [12:00] <Dashiva> Amusing that some people consider atom 0.3 vs 1.0 a success
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  205. # [12:02] <gsnedders> I'd say it was
  206. # [12:03] <Dashiva> A success in ensuring there are now two incompatible atom formats that both need to be supported
  207. # [12:03] <Philip`> A success in ensuring there are only two incompatible formats and not more
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  234. # [13:57] <gsnedders> Wow, Hixie accepted my feedback.
  235. # [13:57] <gsnedders> :P
  236. # [14:09] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: Rik`)
  237. # [14:15] <jgraham> What was it? Conforming html5 documents MUST contain a link to donate to your paypal account?
  238. # [14:19] <gsnedders> I'm under 18, I'm not allowed a paypal account
  239. # [14:19] <jgraham> There's lots of things you're not allowed but that doesn't stop you
  240. # [14:19] <jgraham> Anyway you will be 30 by the time HTML5 is a REC
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  248. # [14:45] <asmodai> Mmm, interesting little project: http://code.google.com/p/html5media/
  249. # [14:45] <asmodai> GUess it was pasted to the channel before.
  250. # [14:46] * Joins: lazni (~lazni@118.71.83.136)
  251. # [14:52] <hsivonen> asmodai: I like how the script hard-codes a magic H.264 profile
  252. # [14:53] <hsivonen> in practice, mortals are not going to get the codecs parameter right for their particular H.264
  253. # [14:53] <hsivonen> profiles FAIL
  254. # [14:55] <annevk> that line is part of the unwritten book on Web format design
  255. # [14:56] <asmodai> hsivonen: Hadn't even seen that yet ;)
  256. # [15:02] <Philip`> Just need to make sure encoding programs give you a nice UI so you can choose some combination of "iPhone compatible" and "Maximum compression (not compatible with mobile devices)" etc, and then they encode all the versions and spit out the appropriate chunk of HTML to use
  257. # [15:02] <Philip`> Surely that can't be hard to do
  258. # [15:02] * MikeSmith reads discussion about validation on public-html
  259. # [15:03] <jgraham> "Surely that can't be hard to do" is more or loss what got us the state of the web today
  260. # [15:03] <jgraham> *less
  261. # [15:03] <Philip`> Sure, but that's not going to stop me being sure about it
  262. # [15:03] <hsivonen> Philip`: those piece will be even harder to keep together than keeping files and MIME types without parameters together
  263. # [15:03] <Philip`> (It'll stop me being correct, of course)
  264. # [15:05] <hsivonen> I'm struggling with my old nemesis: the onload event
  265. # [15:05] <hsivonen> s/onload/load/
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  268. # [15:10] <annevk> I just realized
  269. # [15:10] <annevk> reading public-html is like reading the newspaper, almost always bad news
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  271. # [15:12] * jgraham is finding the blizzard outside rather distracting
  272. # [15:12] <gsnedders> Me too.
  273. # [15:12] <gsnedders> The fact I know I have to walk home in that makes me sad.
  274. # [15:13] <jgraham> Camp at the office?
  275. # [15:14] <gsnedders> Seems rather dull.
  276. # [15:14] <gsnedders> But so does my flat.
  277. # [15:14] <gsnedders> Oh well.
  278. # [15:15] <annevk> you should come party in the Netherlands
  279. # [15:16] <gsnedders> Hmm… Flights to Amsterdam…
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  282. # [15:17] <asmodai> annevk: Where you at in NL anyway?
  283. # [15:17] <annevk> Utrecht
  284. # [15:17] <asmodai> Ahh, Utreg
  285. # [15:18] <asmodai> Area of the clogged motorways ^^
  286. # [15:18] <annevk> no car, no problems :)
  287. # [15:18] <asmodai> True, true.
  288. # [15:19] <annevk> you're Dutch too right? /whois says so anyway
  289. # [15:19] <asmodai> Aye, work in R'dam, live in Barendrecht
  290. # [15:20] <annevk> might go to bar with the gang from #fronteers on Wednesday here in Utrecht
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  292. # [15:20] <annevk> pretty sure everyone here would be welcome to come and otherwise I'll take a hit
  293. # [15:21] <asmodai> #fronteers?
  294. # [15:22] <annevk> IRC channel from http://fronteers.nl/
  295. # [15:23] <asmodai> Ah
  296. # [15:24] <asmodai> Wasn't even aware of that group.
  297. # [15:24] <asmodai> Useful, since we do a shitload of web dev here at the uni.
  298. # [15:25] <MikeSmith> I'm trying to figure out what, if any, new information there is in http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0rp834wf "Privacy Issues of the W3C Geolocation API"
  299. # [15:25] <annevk> krijnh throws a party for each new member
  300. # [15:27] <Peter`> He still owes me one in that case :p
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  303. # [15:38] <asmodai> annevk: hahaha
  304. # [15:38] <asmodai> annevk: Sounds ideal. :)
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  306. # [15:42] <boblet> are there any HTML5 elements that aren’t media-independent now?
  307. # [15:43] <Dashiva> audio?
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  309. # [15:45] <boblet> Dashiva: I’m guessing that the media independence of img, video, canvas & audio is the mentioning of a11y alternatives, right?
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  313. # [16:15] <MikeSmith> I notice http://wiki.commonjs.org/wiki/Binary/F was added recently.. wondering if the Ecmascript TC has been discussing anything about it or other JS binary-datatype proposals recently
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  340. # [17:25] <beilabs> Quick question, is The Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group the same group as WebApps WG?
  341. # [17:28] <jgraham> No
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  349. # [18:00] * zcorpan does s/autobuffer/preload/ in http://simon.html5.org/html5-elements
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  369. # [18:48] <othermaciej> I need to update mine
  370. # [18:49] <Dashiva> Looks like someone tried to implement acid2: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kycn8zaXYz1qzpwi0o1_500.jpg
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  396. # [20:24] <JonathanNeal> Hey all!
  397. # [20:25] <TabAtkins> yo, JonathanNeal.
  398. # [20:32] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-vjsrzxwmkbslvhrn)
  399. # [20:35] <JonathanNeal> What's new in the htmizzle?
  400. # [20:37] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  401. # [20:38] <Necrathex> the <bling> element
  402. # [20:39] * Philip` groans
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  407. # [20:48] <jwalden> the data-pimped-out="data-pimped-out" attribute
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  409. # [20:53] <zcorpan__> data-mining=""
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  411. # [20:58] <zcorpan__> someone should set up a twitter account announcing the daily new html5 data-* attribute
  412. # [20:59] <zcorpan__> sometimes with a new attribute on <embed>
  413. # [21:01] <jwalden> <blinquee data-scrolling-speed="11" />
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  415. # [21:07] <Philip`> Someone should make an HTML5 Applicable Specification generator
  416. # [21:07] <Philip`> You tell it what elements and attributes you want to be valid, and it writes a spec for you
  417. # [21:08] <zcorpan__> it should also output a pluggable schema and the appropriate validator.nu url
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  419. # [21:13] <zcorpan__> mpilgrim: btw, i guess you should update diveintohtml5 wrt autobuffer
  420. # [21:16] <zcorpan__> mpilgrim: the js impl would probably look for a preload attribute with value empty string or ascii-case-insensitive "auto" to mean the same as yesterday's autobuffer
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  449. # [22:26] <annevk> Google acquired a Flash-based app? that's funny giving all the recent commotion
  450. # [22:29] * Quits: nattokirai (~nattokira@y226086.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Quit: nattokirai)
  451. # [22:29] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-wetfyhdpqsnrgfac) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  452. # [22:33] <annevk> that thing on Wednesday in Utrecht now has an associated blog post: http://fronteers.nl/blog/2010/03/spontaanborrel-woensdag
  453. # [22:33] * Joins: nattokirai (~nattokira@y226086.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  454. # [22:34] <annevk> http://twitter.com/jreschke/status/9818873134 -- didn't masinter say he switched to using that address because of The Incident?
  455. # [22:34] <annevk> on his blog or something
  456. # [22:34] <annevk> I'm now wondering why I even care
  457. # [22:34] * annevk goes back to reading QC
  458. # [22:35] <othermaciej> maybe the claimed piece of misinformation was that Larry "retracted his Formal Objection"
  459. # [22:35] <othermaciej> (since according to Larry, he never made a Formal Objection)
  460. # [22:37] <annevk> ooh, I guess you're right, lol
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  462. # [22:40] <JonathanNeal> data-picard="great combo"
  463. # [22:47] <othermaciej> annevk: could you update HTML4 diffs for publication as a Working Draft this Thursday?
  464. # [22:47] <othermaciej> annevk: see email
  465. # [22:47] <othermaciej> Hixie: same for your drafts and we have a minor status change request
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  468. # [22:50] <jwalden> krijnh: would it be possible to change the name/nick-styling cookie on the logs site to be effectively permanent? month-long lifetime doesn't serve much purpose given the contents of the cookies in question
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  471. # [22:55] <Hixie> othermaciej: tuesday march 2nd? sure
  472. # [22:55] <Hixie> othermaciej: what's the change?
  473. # [22:55] <othermaciej> Hixie: Thursday March 4 please
  474. # [22:55] <othermaciej> Hixie: see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Mar/0025.html
  475. # [22:55] <othermaciej> for the change
  476. # [22:55] <Hixie> oh thursday, sorry, misread
  477. # [22:55] <othermaciej> can explain further if needed but I have an interview in 6 minutes
  478. # [22:56] <Hixie> nothing more to explain, will do
  479. # [22:57] <othermaciej> thanks much
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  483. # [23:00] <Hixie> changed s/specification is/contents of this specification are also/
  484. # [23:01] <Hixie> oh wait the requested change was more than that
  485. # [23:01] * zcorpan__ was just going to say...
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  495. # [23:20] <annevk> I will tomorrow or so
  496. # [23:20] <annevk> I guess that would be a good time to integrate recent changes as well
  497. # [23:21] <annevk> data-driven="marcos"
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  506. # [23:58] <Hixie> othermaciej: is the registry for issue 27 testable yet?
  507. # [23:59] <Hixie> othermaciej: i'm happy to be a volunteer to test the registry once it exists, though we should probably have several people do so to get a reasonable idea of the results
  508. # Session Close: Tue Mar 02 00:00:00 2010

The end :)