/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-03-26 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Mar 26 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  9. # [00:16] <Bolkonskij> hi
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  18. # [01:00] <zcorpan> reading the opera desktop team comments, it seems people don't understand what RC means
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  21. # [01:05] <gsnedders> zcorpan: or "pre-pre-alpha" for that matter.
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  25. # [01:23] * zcorpan wonders why http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/02/firefox-46-features/ has stray </p>s in there
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  59. # [03:03] <gsnedders> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0372/
  60. # [03:03] <gsnedders> html5lib mentioned in a PEP
  61. # [03:03] <gsnedders> (it's also mentioned in the Unladen Swallow PEP)
  62. # [03:03] <gsnedders> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3146/
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  119. # [07:24] <JonathanNeal> It's really weird when Opera, Safari, and Firefox need a style, but Internet Explorer and Chrome do not.
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  121. # [07:35] <JonathanNeal> Any folks around?
  122. # [07:36] <Peter`> that's just because of UA stylesheets
  123. # [07:36] <Peter`> also the reason reset-css files exist
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  125. # [07:41] <JonathanNeal> Peter`, yes I don't want to spam this board, but that's why I'm labeling all the entries in my html5 reset.
  126. # [07:41] <JonathanNeal> I should also label when I'm setting the style to match ua and when i'm setting the style to match spec.
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  130. # [08:18] <JonathanNeal> I'm sure it's a slippery slope, but there are some things I wish the spec didn't leave out and up to the ua.
  131. # [08:23] <Peter`> I concur, but I doubt it's going to change anytime soon
  132. # [08:28] <JonathanNeal> I didn't realize that type="a" and type="A" didn't work.
  133. # [08:30] <JonathanNeal> They work until you specify them in css ol[type="a"] {} ol[type="A"] {} both get eval'd.
  134. # [08:30] <JonathanNeal> for either a or A
  135. # [08:31] <JonathanNeal> Wow, in Chrome it even says the UA style is for ol[type=a] but when you style ol[type=A] it overwrites it anyway.
  136. # [08:32] <JonathanNeal> So ol[type=a] and ol[type=A] are different selectors within the UA's CSS, but the same outside.
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  144. # [08:56] <hsivonen> JonathanNeal: I believe the dual selectors in the UA style sheet are there because the UA style sheet gets parsed in the case-sensitive mode to make it work right with XHTML
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  163. # [10:50] <annevk> hsivonen, do you see validators as conversion help?
  164. # [10:50] <annevk> hsivonen, 'cause personally I would only start using the validator after I have made some attempt at following the rules
  165. # [10:54] <hsivonen> annevk: some people have already made fairly reasonable attempts to follow the previous spec
  166. # [10:55] <hsivonen> correction
  167. # [10:55] <hsivonen> the validator for the previous spec
  168. # [10:55] <hsivonen> which is Transitional
  169. # [10:55] <hsivonen> maybe I should have clarified that I'd like to loosen things based on usage data and that I wouldn't want to permit <font face> or <font size>
  170. # [10:56] <hsivonen> basically, I think the individual pre-existing features should be measured against usage on near-valid Transitional sites
  171. # [10:56] <hsivonen> and against Hixie's stated criteria
  172. # [10:56] <annevk> Can't you just group them all into one?
  173. # [10:57] <hsivonen> I think not
  174. # [10:57] <annevk> I think Hixie suggested that already
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  176. # [10:57] <annevk> I guess schema-based validation does not give you the right messages for that...
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  179. # [11:15] <jgraham> It never faiuls to amaze me how much people will pay to listen to some guy from the internet talk about stuff
  180. # [11:16] <jgraham> 400 pounds for a one day workshop to learn about part of HTML 5 (or 200 if you're a student) is pretty insane
  181. # [11:17] * jgraham hopes there are no students who can actually afford that
  182. # [11:17] <Philip`> Depends on the value of your time and how long it would take you to learn the same amount without that guidance
  183. # [11:17] * MikeSmith wonders who the particular speaker is
  184. # [11:18] <annevk> Jeremy Keith I guess
  185. # [11:18] <MikeSmith> ah
  186. # [11:18] <MikeSmith> well, Jeremy's a great speaker
  187. # [11:18] <annevk> to his credit they organize a fairly cheap conference themselves in England
  188. # [11:19] <jgraham> I'm not disputing that he's a good speaker
  189. # [11:19] <jgraham> I'm just amazed that there are people who can afford it
  190. # [11:19] <annevk> I'd guess companies pay the bill
  191. # [11:19] <jgraham> Well sure.
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  200. # [11:53] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  201. # [11:53] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  202. # [11:53] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  203. # [11:53] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 22:03:06
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  211. # [12:17] <zcorpan> JonathanNeal: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9102
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  214. # [12:35] <annevk> we should really remove those silly Selector rules
  215. # [12:35] <annevk> but I guess it is too late or something :/
  216. # [12:38] <zcorpan> hmm, i wonder if the spec is broken for <input type="COLOR"/> etc in xhtml
  217. # [12:39] <annevk> broken how?
  218. # [12:40] <zcorpan> the attribute value is case-insensitive in xhtml
  219. # [12:40] <zcorpan> but the selector matches case-sensitively
  220. # [12:41] <annevk> doesn't seem like a problem to me
  221. # [12:42] <annevk> well, maybe a problem with Selectors
  222. # [12:42] <zcorpan> it's a problem because writing valid xhtml would result in broken rendering
  223. # [12:42] <zcorpan> if the spec is implemented literally
  224. # [12:42] <annevk> oh, the spec
  225. # [12:43] <annevk> sorry, I see what you mean now
  226. # [12:43] <annevk> yeah, that seems broken
  227. # [12:43] * zcorpan files a bug
  228. # [12:46] <annevk> i initially thought you meant for authors trying to style such inputs
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  237. # [13:25] <jgraham> hsivonen: IO think it may be worth explaining why you use OpenOffice to create web pages if it involves a significant amount of manual post-processing work. At the moment it sounds a bit like the start of a "Doctor Doctor, it hurts when I do this" joke
  238. # [13:26] <hsivonen> jgraham: it lets me do paragraphs, headings and tables
  239. # [13:26] <hsivonen> jgraham: and Nvu wasn't better at that
  240. # [13:27] <hsivonen> jgraham: and getting a Dreamweaver license would be an overkill
  241. # [13:27] <jgraham> Tables I can somewhat understand, but it seems like for paragraphs + headigns you would be better off with a text editor
  242. # [13:27] <hsivonen> jgraham: I disagree
  243. # [13:27] <hsivonen> press return vs. typing all those tags
  244. # [13:28] <jgraham> Including the effort of later post-processing the output?
  245. # [13:28] <hsivonen> yes
  246. # [13:28] <jgraham> I'm pretty surprised
  247. # [13:28] <jgraham> (I guess tables also need post processing since they will not have proper headers or anything)
  248. # [13:29] * annevk usually edits by hand
  249. # [13:30] <hsivonen> jgraham: tables from OOo do have <th>s
  250. # [13:30] <hsivonen> the problem with tables in that OOo wraps the cell contents in <p>
  251. # [13:30] <hsivonen> and puts style and align all over the place
  252. # [13:30] <jgraham> In the right places (and in how many scenarios)?
  253. # [13:31] <hsivonen> jgraham: I'm using OO.o Writer/Web. Are you talking about taking an OO.o Writer doc and exporting to HTML?
  254. # [13:31] <hsivonen> the "/Web" part is significant
  255. # [13:31] <hsivonen> uses HTML as the native format
  256. # [13:32] <hsivonen> and exposes semantic elements is the style palette
  257. # [13:32] <annevk> ooh great, I'm losing an hour sleep this Sunday?
  258. # [13:32] <jgraham> hsivonen: Ah. My OpenOffice install doesn't include anything that obviously looks like that
  259. # [13:32] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: so I pulled latest htmlparser source and updated my workspace and now trying to build... does ecj have the same command-line options as javac? can I just alias javac to ecj?
  260. # [13:32] <annevk> this trip to SFO is going to be sweet :/
  261. # [13:32] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: no idea. I'm working on fixing that right now (as soon as I stop typing on IRC)
  262. # [13:33] <jgraham> Oh, curious. There is no top level menu for it, but you can create a new HTML document which changes the application title
  263. # [13:33] <jgraham> s/top level menu/application menu item/
  264. # [13:34] <jgraham> The badness of the OO.org UI never fails to amaze me
  265. # [13:34] <annevk> creating a good editor is apparently a pretty hard problem
  266. # [13:34] <hsivonen> also, never ever open an existing HTML doc into OO.o
  267. # [13:35] * annevk would love a good robust web-based editor
  268. # [13:35] <hsivonen> OO.o is write-only
  269. # [13:35] <jgraham> Totally. That doesn't excuse OO.org for having a lame UI in every respect, not just for creating clean HTML
  270. # [13:38] <hsivonen> Mozilla has made much better recovery progress from having a COM clone, an app-specific crossplatform UI toolkit, an app-specific cross-platform 2D graphics layer and a horrible GUI (Netscape 6 Preview Release) than OO.o
  271. # [13:40] <jgraham> OO.o has never recovered from the policy of making a pixel-by-pixel clone of Office 95
  272. # [13:40] <jgraham> (at least I assume it was a policy. It would be remarkable if it happened by accident)
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  274. # [13:47] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: fix pushed to hg
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  278. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: thanks
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  280. # [13:55] * hsivonen goes back to making the C++ version of that file compile nicely with GCC and MSVC
  281. # [13:55] <hsivonen> apperently, this area is too tough for 3 compilers
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  291. # [14:23] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: btw, when I run jing from the command line in Terminal on OSX, I get "?" characters instead of curly quotes
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  293. # [14:23] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: you need to set the terminal to UTF-8
  294. # [14:23] <MikeSmith> e.g., rror: Element ?base? from namespace ?http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml? is missing one or more of the following attributes: [href, target]
  295. # [14:23] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: or if your terminal is in UTF-8, you need to set the System.out to UTF-8
  296. # [14:24] <MikeSmith> ah, OK
  297. # [14:24] <hsivonen> there's a magic java system property for that
  298. # [14:24] <hsivonen> it's very sad if Apple still keeps Java defaulting to MacRoman
  299. # [14:25] <hsivonen> the system property is file.encoding
  300. # [14:25] <hsivonen> -Dfile.encoding=UTF-8 should do the trick
  301. # [14:25] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK, trying that now
  302. # [14:26] <MikeSmith> indeed, yeah, that works
  303. # [14:26] <MikeSmith> thanks
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  319. # [15:19] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I'm trying to figure out where the w:string datatype is defined
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  321. # [15:20] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: syntax/relaxng/datatype/java/src/org/whattf/datatype/AsciiCaseInsensitiveString.java
  322. # [15:21] <MikeSmith> ah
  323. # [15:21] <MikeSmith> thanks
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  342. # [16:37] <Philip`> "I see value in being able to express notions such as "this page intentionally violates rule number 34"."
  343. # [16:37] <Philip`> I don't see how it's possible to violate http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleThirtyFour
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  346. # [16:40] <Dashiva> Perhaps by somehow providing content that cannot be made pornographic
  347. # [16:42] <Philip`> I don't see how it's possible
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  349. # [16:45] <Dashiva> That's only because you lack faith
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  365. # [17:28] <JonathanNeal> Thanks for the heads up on case insensative selectors, zcorpan.
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  371. # [17:35] * MikeSmith wonders what client do people use for jabber.ietf.org meetings
  372. # [17:35] <annevk> Empathy
  373. # [17:35] <annevk> it ships with Ubuntu
  374. # [17:36] <annevk> and does pretty much all messaging
  375. # [17:37] * jgraham doesn't go to ietf meetings but uses bitlbee+irssi for jabber (donno if that has all the needed features for that usecase though)
  376. # [17:37] <annevk> somewhat tempted to install the new Ubuntu beta
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  378. # [17:37] <MikeSmith> annevk: thanks
  379. # [17:37] <MikeSmith> wonder if there's anything that works on OSX
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  381. # [17:37] <MikeSmith> jgraham: it uses some extension, XEP-0045
  382. # [17:38] * Parts: cohitre (~cohitre@97-113-165-17.tukw.qwest.net)
  383. # [17:38] <annevk> MikeSmith, http://www.pidgin.im/download/mac/ prolly works
  384. # [17:38] <MikeSmith> thanks
  385. # [17:38] * annevk was using pidgin before
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  394. # [17:48] <lazni> adiumx uses the pidgin lib
  395. # [17:50] <annevk> this is quite boring
  396. # [17:50] <franksalim> ?
  397. # [17:50] <annevk> iri meeting
  398. # [17:51] <franksalim> i believe that
  399. # [17:51] <jgraham> Not just anne dissing the channel
  400. # [17:51] <annevk> mumbling on Unicode, UTF-8, octet sequences
  401. # [17:52] <annevk> just some meta discussion on the presentation of a IRI vs a IRI
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  405. # [18:00] <Dashiva> IRI vs IRI?
  406. # [18:01] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.164)
  407. # [18:01] <annevk> dunno, we're now at LEIRI and HTML5 URL...
  408. # [18:01] <annevk> but it's going very slow
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  411. # [18:09] <Philip`> The concept of competition between validators would be more convincing if more than one validator existed
  412. # [18:10] * AryehGregor concurs.
  413. # [18:10] * AryehGregor also isn't very inspired by how few web developers seem to use non-officially-endorsed tools like jslint, compared to Standards-Based Validators
  414. # [18:11] <Philip`> Also it would be more convincing if anybody used the HTML4 validators that compete with validator.w3.org
  415. # [18:11] <Philip`> (but as far as I can tell, everyone uses the latter)
  416. # [18:12] <annevk> i've seen people use validator.nu
  417. # [18:12] <Philip`> I tried using jslint once but then I realised it was a waste of time
  418. # [18:12] <Dashiva> ^
  419. # [18:13] <Philip`> and I was making my code uglier and less readable just to satisfy its rule for semicolons and for not using the same name with var twice in one function
  420. # [18:13] <Philip`> s/rule/rules/
  421. # [18:15] <AryehGregor> Also, for compiled languages, where it's common to use warnings, everyone just uses their compiler's built-in warnings, so there's little to no competition on that score per se.
  422. # [18:16] <AryehGregor> (although I guess quality of warnings might be a contributing factor in the decision on which compiler to use, if there are multiple realistic choices for your platform)
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  427. # [18:23] <JonathanNeal> Are there any other vendor stylesheets out there? Like, has someone compiled a stylesheet of how one browser does everything?
  428. # [18:24] <AryehGregor> Every browser has its own UA stylesheets.
  429. # [18:25] <Philip`> I thought MikeSmith collected some for his guide thingy
  430. # [18:25] <JonathanNeal> I would love to get ahold of those. I realized it might be a much more effective way to write mine.
  431. # [18:25] <JonathanNeal> I've been doing it through a process of laying out a pangram of every element in html5, then applying the styles from the html5 rendering guide.
  432. # [18:26] <MikeSmith> the h:tml doc uses the Webkit default UA stylesheet
  433. # [18:26] <JonathanNeal> Then applying additional styles in a vendor css file to catch whatever else was needed to normalize them.
  434. # [18:26] <MikeSmith> http://svn.webkit.org/repository/webkit/trunk/WebCore/css/html.css
  435. # [18:31] <erlehmann> the pecurialities are interesting. epiphany-webkit for example, does not have a default styling for <i>
  436. # [18:32] <JonathanNeal> Thanks MikeSmith, 0__qem sure is a strange value.
  437. # [18:34] <MikeSmith> JonathanNeal: I think that just gets interpreted as 0em
  438. # [18:35] <MikeSmith> I think for the build of the h:tml doc, I have it stripping out the __q part
  439. # [18:35] <MikeSmith> I don't remembering ever hearing what purpose the __q part serves
  440. # [18:36] <MikeSmith> yeah
  441. # [18:37] <MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/tools/css2xml
  442. # [18:37] <MikeSmith> (if you care to see all the ugliness)
  443. # [18:38] <JonathanNeal> I do care, I'm very interested in seeing how uas style and how people are using this info
  444. # [18:42] <TabAtkins> JonathanNeal: Poke around in your Firefox install to find it's stylesheet. I've modified mine for a few things. Relatively easy to get to.
  445. # [18:42] <JonathanNeal> Awesome!
  446. # [18:42] <JonathanNeal> Now just to get IE's
  447. # [18:46] <MikeSmith> annevk: is that Yngve speaking?
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  456. # [18:54] <annevk> MikeSmith, I dropped out
  457. # [18:54] <annevk> MikeSmith, figured I should get some food
  458. # [18:56] <AryehGregor> http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-trunk/ "This page is in Irish. Would you like to translate it? [Translate] [Nope]"
  459. # [18:56] <annevk> I got bored with it too. All the high-level theoretical thought trains. How about starting with where contemporary implementations are?
  460. # [18:58] <JonathanNeal> Interesting how Firefox tightens up their css file (e.g. "margin: 1em 0") but then does "0px" and "margin: 0.5em auto 0.5em auto;" in other places. It's nice to know these stylesheets are written by humans.
  461. # [18:59] * Quits: pauld (~chatzilla@194.102.13.2) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  462. # [19:00] <Philip`> JonathanNeal: Or it's worrying to know these stylesheets were written by robots that can pass the Turing test
  463. # [19:01] <JonathanNeal> Philip`, true dat, I am C.
  464. # [19:01] * Quits: Phae (~phaeness@gatea.mh.bbc.co.uk)
  465. # [19:02] <JonathanNeal> If we find IE's, my assumption is that it would pass with flying colors.
  466. # [19:03] <MikeSmith> annevk: Larry is mentioning use of the term "URL" now
  467. # [19:04] <annevk> oh, maybe I should dial back in
  468. # [19:05] * slightlyoff_afk is now known as slightlyoff
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  471. # [19:08] <Philip`> Does IE actually use a default stylesheet that's a real CSS file, rather than something more ad-hoc and legacyish?
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  473. # [19:12] <MikeSmith> I think even for Mozilla and Webkit, the default styling behavior (logic?) is not totally captured in their UA stylesheets
  474. # [19:12] <AryehGregor> Philip`, I would guess so for IE >= 8.
  475. # [19:13] <AryehGregor> But yeah, some things aren't specifiable in CSS.
  476. # [19:13] <JonathanNeal> AryehGregor, we could write one if they don't already have one.
  477. # [19:13] <AryehGregor> They also all use vendor-specific extensions in their UA stylesheets, I assume.
  478. # [19:13] <AryehGregor> For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, this is interesting: http://themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2010/03/22/
  479. # [19:13] <MikeSmith> AryehGregor: some things are, but they don't specify them in the UA stylesheet for some reason
  480. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> e.g., neither Gecko and Webkit UA stylesheets set bold on the th element
  481. # [19:14] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  482. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> they do it in program code instead
  483. # [19:14] <AryehGregor> Really? Why?
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  486. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> AryehGregor: dunno
  487. # [19:15] <MikeSmith> there may not be many (or any) more instances of that then the th case
  488. # [19:15] <MikeSmith> but I know of the th case, at least, so I suspect there might be others
  489. # [19:15] <annevk> how long does this meeting go on for?
  490. # [19:16] <MikeSmith> I think it was supposed to be 2.5 hours
  491. # [19:16] <JonathanNeal> I'm cleaning up the stylesheets and placing them @ http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html5-browser-stylesheets/
  492. # [19:17] <annevk> MikeSmith, kk
  493. # [19:17] <JonathanNeal> I wasn't sure what the version was on that webkit stylesheet, it was from their trunk, so I was going to add the version numbers once I know.
  494. # [19:17] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) (Quit: brb)
  495. # [19:17] <annevk> now they're talking about vests vs t-shirts
  496. # [19:17] <annevk> clearly ninjas win
  497. # [19:18] <MikeSmith> JonathanNeal: note that those stylesheets get updated/changed somewhat regularly
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  500. # [19:18] <MikeSmith> so if you make copies of them, you are going to need to track the upstream changes
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  503. # [19:20] <JonathanNeal> MikeSmith, definitely the reason why I want to grab the versions. Yea, I can always tag it 56629
  504. # [19:26] * Joins: jgornick (~joe@199.199.212.242)
  505. # [19:27] <JonathanNeal> Tagged them as firefox-v3.6.2.css and webkit-r56629.css
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  509. # [19:37] <erlehmann> JonathanNeal, better tag it gecko-1.9.xyz
  510. # [19:37] <erlehmann> after all its the rendering engines that change this
  511. # [19:37] <JonathanNeal> how would i verify whcih gecko it was?
  512. # [19:38] <erlehmann> doesn't ff report this ?
  513. # [19:38] <JonathanNeal> btw, from what I understand MS IE saves their stylesheet in an xml file.
  514. # [19:38] <erlehmann> check the about dialog.
  515. # [19:39] <JonathanNeal> 1.9.2.2 for gecko erlehmann?
  516. # [19:39] <erlehmann> XML stylesheets, what a funny idea :D
  517. # [19:39] <erlehmann> JonathanNeal, dunno. but i have iceweasel 3.5.8, which has 1.9.1.6, so it seems plausible
  518. # [19:41] * Joins: cying (~cying@70.90.171.153)
  519. # [19:42] <JonathanNeal> I found IE6's stylesheet!
  520. # [19:44] <Philip`> Where?
  521. # [19:44] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@FL1-118-111-54-14.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Quit: kennyluck)
  522. # [19:44] <JonathanNeal> Or I'm really dang close.
  523. # [19:44] <JonathanNeal> res://msxml.dll/defaultss.xsl
  524. # [19:46] <Philip`> That sounds like it's a stylesheet for XML files, not for HTML
  525. # [19:46] <Philip`> given that it's in msxml.dll
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  527. # [19:50] <JonathanNeal> Yea, just need to figure out what the dll is for html
  528. # [19:50] <JonathanNeal> http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html5-browser-stylesheets/defaultss.xls.txt
  529. # [19:50] <JonathanNeal> that's the one for xml, at least.
  530. # [19:52] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@81.93.12.28) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  531. # [19:55] <Philip`> HTML is lots of DLLs
  532. # [19:55] <Philip`> like mshtml.dll
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  535. # [19:59] <JonathanNeal> Yea ... it sure feels close though.
  536. # [20:01] * Quits: zalan (~zalan@catv-89-135-108-81.catv.broadband.hu)
  537. # [20:02] <JonathanNeal> According to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa741312(VS.85).aspx it might be in mshtml.dll
  538. # [20:03] <Philip`> There are no strings in that file that look like CSS to me
  539. # [20:04] <AryehGregor> Maybe they're ROT13ed.
  540. # [20:04] <AryehGregor> Or base-64.
  541. # [20:04] <jgraham> Philip`: I'm pretty sure that most people that use jsLint turn of many of the more opinionated warnings
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  543. # [20:04] <JonathanNeal> Maybe they're in the registry?
  544. # [20:04] <jgraham> and I don't think it's really comparable to HTML since javascript doesn't have any conformance criteria
  545. # [20:05] <AryehGregor> Some people want that for HTML too, apparently. Or at least are open to considering it.
  546. # [20:06] <jgraham> (I guess theoretically one might like a porgram that told you if you were going to hit any features that change behaviour in ES5 strict mode. But that probably isn't statically determinable)
  547. # [20:06] <jgraham> AryehGregor: Yes some people want it. That doesn't mean it's a good idea
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  550. # [20:19] <AryehGregor> Do all browsers support oninput?
  551. # [20:20] <AryehGregor> Meh, never mind.
  552. # [20:20] <AryehGregor> Doesn't matter.
  553. # [20:22] <JonathanNeal> I found a hacky way to grab 'em all.
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  566. # [20:55] <annevk> i cannot access google.com
  567. # [20:55] <annevk> weird
  568. # [20:59] <Dashiva> Can you access this? http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/03/schneier_bloggi.html
  569. # [21:00] <annevk> sure
  570. # [21:01] <annevk> or google.nl etc.
  571. # [21:01] <annevk> it's very weird, my mother called me this morning and she had exactly this problem
  572. # [21:02] <annevk> maybe restarting the browser will fix it...
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  575. # [21:02] <annevk> yup...
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  579. # [21:29] <jgraham> Cookies?
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  581. # [21:30] <annevk> i accept cookies
  582. # [21:30] <annevk> visit my site for address details
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  601. # [22:32] <annevk> hmm, I wonder if the way Chrome (does not) implement(s) form validation will cause us problems going forward
  602. # [22:32] <annevk> i.e. required="" is "supported" but does not actually prevent form submission unless some JavaScript is used
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  605. # [22:33] <annevk> not cool
  606. # [22:35] <Hixie> annevk: um yeah that's very not cool
  607. # [22:35] <Hixie> annevk: can you file a bug pointing out the very likely intrerop implications of this?
  608. # [22:36] <TabAtkins> Damn, anyone know where the hell image-fit is specified? (In CSS)
  609. # [22:36] <Philip`> TabAtkins: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-page/#propdef-image-fit ?
  610. # [22:37] <TabAtkins> Danke, Philip`.
  611. # [22:37] <Philip`> Thank Google
  612. # [22:37] <TabAtkins> ...I should have thought of that.
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  614. # [22:39] <annevk> Hixie, would this be a bug on WebKit or Chrome?
  615. # [22:39] <Hixie> webkit i guess
  616. # [22:44] <annevk> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36677
  617. # [22:44] <Hixie> thanks
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The end :)