/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-04-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Apr 17 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  9. # [00:10] <AryehGregor> Is there a site that lets you sketch something in a <canvas> (not Flash) and then saves it so you can share the URL, pastebin-style?
  10. # [00:12] <Dashiva> Are you looking for the existence of such a site, or do you just want to share the results of a canvas drawing?
  11. # [00:12] <othermaciej> http://mugtug.com/sketchpad/
  12. # [00:12] <othermaciej> ?
  13. # [00:12] <Steve^> If this works, then yes: http://tinyurl.com/y5ybzlm
  14. # [00:12] <AryehGregor> Oh, cosketch.com actually seems to use canvas. Interesting.
  15. # [00:12] <Steve^> translates to some data: thing
  16. # [00:12] <AryehGregor> I wanted to share the results of a quick sketch easily.
  17. # [00:12] <othermaciej> that data: URL didn't load for me
  18. # [00:12] <AryehGregor> I want it to use canvas because I have Flash disabled in my primary browser.
  19. # [00:13] <Steve^> I did that with the same link othermaciej mentioned
  20. # [00:13] <Dashiva> That URL looks broken, yes
  21. # [00:13] <AryehGregor> Didn't work for me either.
  22. # [00:13] <AryehGregor> Maybe it's truncated?
  23. # [00:13] <Steve^> opens in Opera, at least
  24. # [00:13] <Steve^> ooo, now it doesn't
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  26. # [00:13] <Steve^> must have been a cached version
  27. # [00:13] <Dashiva> It opens, but the image is messed up
  28. # [00:13] <othermaciej> Steve^: odd, the data: URL works right from the web app, but not via bit.ly
  29. # [00:13] <othermaciej> er, via tinyurl
  30. # [00:14] <othermaciej> I think tinyurl may be cutting off the URL
  31. # [00:14] <Steve^> yea, maybe another shortener will be better
  32. # [00:14] <othermaciej> you can also draw with Sketchpad, copy the image local, and them upload to http://imgur.com/
  33. # [00:14] <Steve^> how would you save it locally?
  34. # [00:15] <othermaciej> drag & drop after clicking the save button
  35. # [00:15] <othermaciej> or use Save As... from the browser File menu after clicking save
  36. # [00:16] <Dashiva> Ideally the browser would let you do save as... directly on a canvas, but it doesn't seem to be high priority
  37. # [00:17] <AryehGregor> Copying locally is too annoying. I could do it in the GIMP if I wanted to do that.
  38. # [00:17] <Steve^> indeed
  39. # [00:18] <othermaciej> sketchpad with a built in image hosting service would be really sweet
  40. # [00:18] <AryehGregor> Although a web page would probably load a lot faster than the GIMP.
  41. # [00:18] <othermaciej> looks like they may be vaguely planning that
  42. # [00:21] * dave_levin is now known as dc86ed7c29395f2b
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  44. # [00:31] <AryehGregor> Haha: http://arewefastyet.com/
  45. # [00:32] <AryehGregor> Why are V8 and Nitro so close there? Because it's not mostly raw JS performance, or what?
  46. # [00:32] * AryehGregor also wonders if they're testing against Chromium/WebKit trunk, or a release
  47. # [00:32] * AryehGregor likes the "NO"
  48. # [00:41] <othermaciej> AryehGregor: V8 and Nitro are fairly similar designs, though I am surprised at how close they are on that diagram
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  50. # [00:51] <dglazkov> hey, brain people. especiallly TabAtkins
  51. # [00:51] <dglazkov> :P
  52. # [00:52] <dglazkov> can someone point me to a place that specifies submit-on-enter behavior for forms? I've been looking at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#forms and can't spot it
  53. # [00:53] <dglazkov> in other words, in which cases does hitting an enter in a textfield could submit a form?
  54. # [00:53] <dglazkov> IE and FF seem to agree that only if there's one text area and no submit button in the form.
  55. # [00:53] <dglazkov> WebKit just does it if there's no submit button.
  56. # [00:53] <dglazkov> either behavior seems arbitrary and weird.
  57. # [00:53] <Hixie> search for "default button" or some such
  58. # [00:54] <Hixie> or "default submit button"
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  60. # [00:55] <othermaciej> dglazkov: seems like "enter" in a form should always activate the default button for the form (or submit if there isn't one)
  61. # [00:55] <othermaciej> dglazkov: "enter" in a text field in a form, rather
  62. # [00:55] <othermaciej> and perhaps also other controls when focused
  63. # [00:56] <othermaciej> dglazkov: seems like this is also more a UI issue than an interop issue - it might be irrelevant on platforms with a virtual keyboard that doesn't have "enter" when editing a text field for instance
  64. # [00:56] <dglazkov> othermaciej: try https://bug-21716-attachments.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=24462 in FF or WebKit.
  65. # [00:57] <othermaciej> dglazkov: in Safari/Mac + ToT WebKit pressing enter submits the form
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  67. # [00:57] <TabAtkins> dglazkov: You want section 4.10.21.2
  68. # [00:57] <dglazkov> othermaciej: yep.
  69. # [00:57] <Hixie> right, what TabAtkins said
  70. # [00:57] <Hixie> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete.html#implicit-submission
  71. # [00:57] <othermaciej> is that a bad thing?
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  73. # [00:58] <Hixie> dglazkov: the spec covers that test case with no ambiguity
  74. # [00:58] <TabAtkins> No ambiguity, but with some leeway for UAs to do what they want.
  75. # [00:58] <Hixie> and says firefox is buggy
  76. # [00:58] <Hixie> no, not that test case
  77. # [00:59] <TabAtkins> Ah, right, true.
  78. # [00:59] <Hixie> there's no button, so it's pretty strictly defined
  79. # [00:59] <TabAtkins> Yes.
  80. # [00:59] <TabAtkins> Since FF does have an implicit submission method, there are some MUSTs it has to follow there.
  81. # [01:00] <dglazkov> so IE and FF are both wrong then?
  82. # [01:00] <dglazkov> and Opera too
  83. # [01:02] <dglazkov> when only one browser gets the spec right, is it: a) awesome b) horrifying or c) ain't right?
  84. # [01:03] <TabAtkins> Depends on the feature. ^_^
  85. # [01:04] * dc86ed7c29395f2b is now known as dave_levin
  86. # [01:05] <TabAtkins> dglazkov: What behavior are you seeing in FF that makes you think its buggy? FF submits a form with or without a submit button when you hit enter in a text input.
  87. # [01:05] <TabAtkins> That appears to be exactly what the spec says.
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  89. # [01:06] <jcranmer> hmm, judging from roc's latest post, it seems like the worries about hardware decoding for theora are overblown
  90. # [01:07] <othermaciej> dglazkov: it seems like hitting Enter in a text input should pretty much always submit the form, unless some key event handler would prevent that
  91. # [01:07] <othermaciej> dglazkov: do you think that is wrong for some reason? are there any sites that rely on sometimes not submitting in that case?
  92. # [01:08] <TabAtkins> Fwiw, the issues is that FF won't implicitly submit a form that has *two* text inputs and no submit button.
  93. # [01:09] <dglazkov> othermaciej: I don't know if it's wrong, it's just different. The spec and WebKit do one thing, the rest of the gang does the other.
  94. # [01:09] <dglazkov> https://bug-21716-attachments.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=24462 <-- try hitting enter in the text field in non-WebKit browsers.
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  96. # [01:10] <KaOSoFt> Good evening.
  97. # [01:10] <othermaciej> dglazkov: Firefox doesn't submit, but that strikes me as unhelpful behavior
  98. # [01:11] <othermaciej> I would say it's a bug in Firefox unless there is some compat reason for it
  99. # [01:13] <dglazkov> othermaciej: I've been digging for gold in b.w.o, but only found one living site that still shows a compat issue: http://www.flo-joe.co.uk/cae/students/wordbank/wform.htm
  100. # [01:15] <othermaciej> dglazkov: the compat issue being that pressing enter does something useless?
  101. # [01:15] <dglazkov> othermaciej: yeah
  102. # [01:15] <dglazkov> othermaciej: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9756
  103. # [01:15] <othermaciej> I see your point but that seems pretty minor
  104. # [01:16] <othermaciej> dglazkov: only thing I could imagine changing is that if there is a button but no submit button, maybe one of the buttons should be the default action for pressing enter
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  106. # [01:17] <dglazkov> othermaciej: I wonder if the current behavior of non-WebKit browsers is simply a leftover from isindex era
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  108. # [01:22] <annevk2> hmm, I don't think HTML5 defines the crazy stuff in http://my.opera.com/hallvors/blog/2010/04/16/how-to-break-youtube does it?
  109. # [01:23] * annevk2 wonders why hsivonen hasn't complained about it
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  119. # [01:54] <annevk> for http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Timed_tracks I know that e.g. Ghost in the Shell 2 has things like that going on
  120. # [01:54] <annevk> but I don't have any screenshot
  121. # [01:55] <Hixie> i just meant that as an example of extremes
  122. # [01:56] <Hixie> hopefully most examples won't be that crazy :-)
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  124. # [01:57] <annevk> those kind are actually hard to follow
  125. # [01:57] <Hixie> yeah
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  127. # [01:58] <annevk> you listen to the Japanese, the subtitles are long and switch fast, while at the top the references in the text are explained
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  131. # [01:59] <Hixie> the jokes are obviously only useful if you're pausing
  132. # [01:59] <Hixie> joke explanations i mean
  133. # [01:59] <Hixie> "footnotes"
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  154. # [02:48] <Hixie> annevk: yt?
  155. # [02:49] <Hixie> annevk: is xhr's description of sync xhr complete, or is it pending on something?
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  157. # [02:53] <annevk> i think it's complete
  158. # [02:53] <annevk> though maybe it should be updated to use the redirect flag of fetch
  159. # [02:53] <annevk> as that's new
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  161. # [02:56] <Hixie> k
  162. # [02:57] <Hixie> so no tasks run while sync xhr is happening, right?
  163. # [02:57] <Hixie> i'm trying to work out how it interacts with workers
  164. # [02:57] <Hixie> seems fine currently
  165. # [02:57] <annevk> yeah, that's the idea
  166. # [02:57] <annevk> no timeouts, no events
  167. # [02:57] <othermaciej> you mean workings running a sync XHR, or running during a sync XHR?
  168. # [02:58] <Hixie> the former
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  170. # [02:58] <Hixie> annevk: thanks
  171. # [02:59] <Hixie> annevk: should that change, you'll likely need to use the "spin the event loop" hook, in which case let me know because i'll have to define how that works with workers
  172. # [02:59] <Hixie> annevk: currnetly workers don't support 'spin the event loop' or 'await a stable state'/'synchronous sections', because nothing that runs in a worker can trigger those
  173. # [02:59] <Hixie> (i just noticed the storage mutex isn't handled right in workers and i'm fixing that)
  174. # [03:00] <annevk> okay
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  229. # [05:44] <piyushmishra> hi
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  231. # [05:45] <piyushmishra> I am trying to make a whiteboard app for multiple users in html5 canvas + JS and php
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  233. # [05:45] <piyushmishra> can anyone please recommend good html5 canvas tutes/documentation etc
  234. # [05:45] <piyushmishra> ?
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  286. # [08:48] <Hixie> is http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9545 really true?
  287. # [08:49] <Hixie> you can't turn off the borders on <iframes> in IE with CSS?
  288. # [08:55] <estellevw> you have to include frameborder=0 or something like that in IE
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  290. # [08:56] <estellevw> frameborder="0"
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  295. # [09:00] <nessy> incidentally, can iframes be transparent
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  298. # [09:08] <nessy> seems IE needs a allowTransparency as well as CSS background-color:transparent
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  377. # [16:18] <Tila> hello
  378. # [16:19] <Tila> is this a place to ask questions about html5?
  379. # [16:20] <miketaylr> yes
  380. # [16:23] <Tila> i heard about js able to use storage on user disk, what kind of storage is it? files? a key/value db?
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  390. # [16:53] <miketaylr> Tila: take a peek here:http://dev.w3.org/html5/webstorage/
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  512. # Session Close: Sun Apr 18 00:00:01 2010

The end :)