/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-05-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed May 19 00:00:01 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  35. # [01:41] <TabAtkins> Argh, why is being precise so difficult? >_<
  36. # [01:42] <TabAtkins> s/precise/precise while maintaining clear prose/
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  40. # [01:51] <TabAtkins> Anyone know shepazu's mobile? He sent me a 9-digit telephone number?
  41. # [01:51] <TabAtkins> Ignore that last ?.
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  43. # [01:52] <MikeSmithX> TabAtkins: I'll find it for you now
  44. # [01:53] <TabAtkins> Danke.
  45. # [01:54] <MikeSmithX> ->DM
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  50. # [01:59] <TabAtkins> Thank, MikeSmithX. He didn't answer, but I left a message.
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  52. # [02:09] <MikeSmithX> hai
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  55. # [02:13] <karlcow> just realized that http://www.w3.org/TR/XMLHttpRequest/ was still in WD
  56. # [02:13] <karlcow> W3C Working Draft 19 November 2009
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  74. # [02:53] <bl4ckcomb> hi, can someone clarify whether <command ... /> (validated by w3's validator) is valid or if it should be <command ...></command> (parsed correctly in chrome and mozilla) ?
  75. # [02:54] <Hixie> it's neither actually
  76. # [02:54] <Hixie> supposed to be just <command>
  77. # [02:55] <Hixie> like <img>
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  79. # [02:58] <bl4ckcomb> Hixie, it seems to validate (w3's validator) as <command>, but then again the browsers don't parse it correctly (they add a closing tag and nest sibling <command> elements) :(
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  97. # [04:30] <wirepair> does any browser besides chrome/chromium implement the sandbox attribute for iframes?
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  102. # [04:49] <othermaciej> wirepair: it's in WebKit trunk but not yet in a shipping version of Safari
  103. # [04:50] <wirepair> cool thanks
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  131. # [06:21] <wirepair> there's nothing like IE8's toStaticHtml defined in html5 correct?
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  176. # [09:47] <MikeSmith> roc: can you think of any Mozilla developers who might take an interest in picking up work on implementing support for the progress element?
  177. # [09:47] <MikeSmith> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=514437
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  179. # [09:48] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: have you pinged volkmar about it?
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  182. # [09:49] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: nope
  183. # [09:49] <MikeSmith> but I will
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  186. # [09:50] * MikeSmith wonders what timezone volkmar is in
  187. # [09:50] <MikeSmith> CET I guess
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  192. # [09:57] <MikeSmith> othermaciej: we seem to have a product for the alt-techniques doc already
  193. # [09:57] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/9
  194. # [09:58] <othermaciej> MikeSmith: cool!
  195. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> and I just now added one for HTML+RDFa
  196. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/products/10
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  198. # [09:59] <othermaciej> sweet!
  199. # [10:00] <MikeSmith> othermaciej: do you know if Yael Aharon frequents IRC?
  200. # [10:00] <othermaciej> maybe I'll convert over the 4 TrackerRequest bugs
  201. # [10:00] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@a91-154-43-186.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  202. # [10:00] <othermaciej> MikeSmith: I don't know
  203. # [10:00] <MikeSmith> k
  204. # [10:00] <othermaciej> there is a "yael" on #webkit but I dunno if she pays attention
  205. # [10:02] <MikeSmith> ah, OK
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  209. # [10:13] <hsivonen> since we don't have a proper URL parsing spec yet: What's the path in this url? href=" ftp://foo/a "
  210. # [10:14] <hsivonen> what about href=" ftp://foo/a%20 "
  211. # [10:15] <hsivonen> Where can I find the last URL parsing spec rev before IETF buried it?
  212. # [10:16] * hsivonen is getting annoyed at politics getting in the way of implementation work
  213. # [10:17] <hsivonen> $ hg clone http://bitbucket.org/DanC/urlp urlp
  214. # [10:18] <hsivonen> well, there it is
  215. # [10:18] <hsivonen> Strip leading and trailing space characters from w.
  216. # [10:19] <hsivonen> now if we could agree on what the space characters are...
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  218. # [10:19] <annevk> hsivonen, /a /a%20
  219. # [10:20] <hsivonen> annevk: thanks
  220. # [10:21] <hsivonen> for now, I'm going to pretend that space characters are ' ', '\r', '\n' and '\t', since that's what most of the above-DOM layers of Gecko think
  221. # [10:21] * hsivonen is quite unhappy that HTML5 doesn't agree
  222. # [10:21] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/href/draft is what you are looking for I suppose but it's not entirely up to date with all latest findings (but then nothing is)
  223. # [10:22] <hsivonen> annevk: thanks. I found the most up-to-date version of that doc from DanC's bitbucket
  224. # [10:28] <MikeSmith> http://twitter.com/Rich_Clark/status/14282319673
  225. # [10:29] <MikeSmith> http://twitter.com/gtrufitt/statuses/14219697892
  226. # [10:29] <MikeSmith> "Why is there no input type=year in HTML5 forms?"
  227. # [10:29] <MikeSmith> I don't know the answer to that
  228. # [10:29] <MikeSmith> I do know it wasn't in Web Forms 2.0
  229. # [10:29] <MikeSmith> or I don't think it was at least
  230. # [10:29] * MikeSmith checks
  231. # [10:30] <MikeSmith> but also don't know that the use cases would be
  232. # [10:31] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  233. # [10:32] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: http://twitter.com/hsivonen/status/14282994498
  234. # [10:32] <MikeSmith> thanks
  235. # [10:33] <annevk> be interesting to know the use case
  236. # [10:34] <annevk> localized version of type=year could be way more rich than you can get with type=number
  237. # [10:36] <hsivonen> annevk: what would a localized version do?
  238. # [10:36] * Joins: Phae (~phaeness@gatek.thls.bbc.co.uk)
  239. # [10:37] <annevk> for certain locales it could offer different calendars as input
  240. # [10:37] <annevk> but then it depends on the use case whether that would actually work, of course
  241. # [10:37] <hsivonen> annevk: I think the start and end of years in different calendars don't match Gregorian years
  242. # [10:38] * Joins: cedricv (~cedric@180.129.33.165)
  243. # [10:38] <annevk> yeah...
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  248. # [10:53] <othermaciej> I hate waiting for builds
  249. # [10:53] * othermaciej whines to no one in particular
  250. # [10:53] <gsnedders> Get a faster computer?
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  252. # [10:59] * hsivonen whines about Apple's faster computers being unnecessarily huge in size
  253. # [11:00] <hsivonen> I like the build times on my i7 box that's smaller than a Mac Pro and that Apple wouldn't sell me
  254. # [11:03] <hsivonen> of course, things could always be faster
  255. # [11:03] * hsivonen blames C++ for having an archaic file dependency model
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  260. # [11:29] <roc> MikeSmith: why should the progress element be a priority?
  261. # [11:30] <MikeSmith> roc: because there's now another actual implementation of it, with some refinements still being made
  262. # [11:31] <MikeSmith> and it might be good to have at least another implementation in the works at the same time
  263. # [11:32] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-69-181-42-237.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  264. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> and because it's one of the few remaining new elements that hasn't been implemented yet
  265. # [11:32] <roc> I think there are heaps of <input> element types that aren't implemented yet
  266. # [11:34] <MikeSmith> true
  267. # [11:34] <MikeSmith> but I don't think it's necessarily an either-or
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  272. # [11:49] <volkmar> oups, i miss him
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  274. # [11:50] <annevk> he prolly reads the logs
  275. # [11:52] * Parts: AnthonyCat (~AnthonyCa@2002:3aaf:19c2:0:21f:5bff:feb6:f0e1)
  276. # [11:53] <volkmar> ok, then he will read I've planned to work on <progress> this week ;)
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  279. # [12:01] <annevk> volkmar, mwaha
  280. # [12:01] <annevk> (cool though)
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  293. # [13:04] <annevk> oh great - we're gonna discuss whether PHP is HTML again?
  294. # [13:12] <Philip`> Does anyone actually edit PHP files in supposedly-HTML editors, or is it all hypothetical?
  295. # [13:13] * Philip` doesn't remember having seen any concrete examples of people successfully doing that
  296. # [13:14] <Philip`> (which makes the discussion seem a bit pointless)
  297. # [13:16] <annevk> I think Dreamweaver has support; prolly others too
  298. # [13:16] <annevk> I've seen plenty of editors that support mixed syntax-highlighting too
  299. # [13:22] <hsivonen> I would have thought it was clear that polyglot was about an intersection--not about a union of features. sigh.
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  309. # [14:23] <karlcow> Philip`: yes dreamweaver, textmate, handles the fact to have php. For example, authoring tool parsers must be aware of php(|something else) language for syntax coloring.
  310. # [14:23] <karlcow> but as hsivonen is saying. The way to address the comment is about the intersection of features and I would go a bit further by saying in the realm of http.
  311. # [14:25] <karlcow> The question of glazou is interesting, but in the realm of authoring tool, which as usual is not really addressed in html5.
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  313. # [14:26] <annevk> it is addressed karlcow
  314. # [14:27] <annevk> but PHP+HTML is not defined
  315. # [14:27] <annevk> that should not be up to us, but to the PHP guys
  316. # [14:27] <karlcow> annevk: s/PHP/templating and programming languages/
  317. # [14:28] <karlcow> maybe it should be up to authoring tools developers but that would require a precise list of requirements/issues.
  318. # [14:28] <karlcow> Maybe it's a set of constraints which could live in a separate document
  319. # [14:29] * karlcow is thinking and doesn't have a solution
  320. # [14:30] <annevk> it seems something to compete over really
  321. # [14:30] <jgraham> I don't see why PHP is special
  322. # [14:30] <jgraham> RoR or Django are just as popular today
  323. # [14:30] <annevk> it's not
  324. # [14:30] <annevk> not sure that's true
  325. # [14:31] <jgraham> I think Glazou thinks its special
  326. # [14:33] * karlcow would avoid to think about what Glazou thinks. Let him express his own thoughts.
  327. # [14:33] <jgraham> Well I mean he did express his thoughts. They were about PHP, not templating languages in general
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  331. # [14:38] <hsivonen> jgraham: the only reason why PHP is more special than other conceptually similar templating languages in that PHP chooses to use a syntaxt that deliberately looks like a PI
  332. # [14:39] <workmad3> PHP certainly is special... goes to special school and everything :)
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  351. # [16:46] <zcorpan_> why does 'google chrome renderer' sometimes eat my cpu?
  352. # [16:47] <nessy> so does gecko ;)
  353. # [16:53] <zcorpan_> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9766 - should it be called websocket.protocol or websocket.subprotocol?
  354. # [16:54] <zcorpan_> location.protocol returns 'http:' so maybe subprotocol is a better name
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  358. # [17:07] <zcorpan_> http://forums.whatwg.org/viewtopic.php?t=4302 - what's *your* html5 story?
  359. # [17:08] <gsnedders> annevk dragged me here.
  360. # [17:09] <jgraham> A long time ago in a galaxy far far away...
  361. # [17:09] <jgraham> No wait that's Star Wars isn't it
  362. # [17:10] <jgraham> I always get those two confused
  363. # [17:10] <zcorpan_> html5 and star wars?
  364. # [17:10] <jgraham> Yeah, sure
  365. # [17:11] <jgraham> We are currently going through the "Empire Strikes Back" phase
  366. # [17:11] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@c-69-181-125-223.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  367. # [17:11] <gsnedders> zcorpan_: How long did you work in the same room as jgraham? Didn't you realize this?
  368. # [17:11] <jgraham> eventually the whole project will be saved by a planet full of tiny furry creates
  369. # [17:11] <jgraham> *creatures
  370. # [17:12] <Philip`> jgraham: Have we already gone through the Phantom Menace phase, or is that still to come?
  371. # [17:13] <zcorpan_> gsnedders: i don't know anything about star wars myself to pick up on star wars wibes
  372. # [17:13] <TabAtkins> Argh so many emails
  373. # [17:13] * TabAtkins drowns
  374. # [17:13] <TabAtkins> Crap, and I need to write some proposals today too.
  375. # [17:13] * gsnedders is kinda hungry, already… gah.
  376. # [17:13] <TabAtkins> Or tomorrow, but I'd rather give myself a day.
  377. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: Come over here, we'll get breakfast.
  378. # [17:14] <gsnedders> That means waiting at least ten hours.
  379. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> ...and?
  380. # [17:14] <gsnedders> I want food now, kthxbai.
  381. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> You can eat on the plane
  382. # [17:14] <gsnedders> Doesn't that somewhat circumvent the point of going to you for food?
  383. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> You get more food when you get here.
  384. # [17:15] <TabAtkins> We'll cook for you.
  385. # [17:15] <TabAtkins> We already got sheppers trapped in the house.
  386. # [17:15] <jgraham> Philip`: Attack of the clones was HTML3.2
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  413. # [18:19] <TabAtkins> http://www.webmproject.org
  414. # [18:20] <TabAtkins> So it looks like we did indeed release vp8 freely.
  415. # [18:20] <Dashiva> I can't find the specification anywhere...
  416. # [18:20] <Dashiva> It just says "based on matroska"
  417. # [18:21] <TabAtkins> ?_?
  418. # [18:21] <Dashiva> Is it a delta spec?
  419. # [18:21] <TabAtkins> I don't understand what you're asking.
  420. # [18:22] <TabAtkins> Oh, got it.
  421. # [18:22] <TabAtkins> Um, I dunno. I suggest checking the Code page.
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  423. # [18:25] <Dashiva> I guess this is all there is for now: http://www.webmproject.org/code/specs/container/
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  425. # [18:32] <Dashiva> Arghl
  426. # [18:33] <Dashiva> Why do people insist on mixing in non-HTML document formats in the polyglot discussion?
  427. # [18:33] <Lachy> haha. Håkon just said, re the Norwegian 17th of May celebration video he showed at google I/O: "We do this every year to celebrate the video element" :-D
  428. # [18:33] <Dashiva> Unprocessed PHP code isn't HTML
  429. # [18:33] <Lachy> he's demoing WebM support in Opera
  430. # [18:33] <TabAtkins> ARGH I'M MISSING THE KEYNOTE AND HAKON
  431. # [18:33] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-sczfcbjawciykeaa)
  432. # [18:33] <Philip`> Is WebM currently / going to be supported more widely than Theora?
  433. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> Well, it's in FF and Webkit nightlies now.
  434. # [18:34] <Philip`> Is it likely to be in Safari?
  435. # [18:35] <Dashiva> Philip`: Flash is on the supporter list
  436. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> I suspect so.
  437. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> And Opera is going with a beta soon.
  438. # [18:35] * Quits: karlushi (~karlushi@fw.vdl2.ca) (Read error: Connection timed out)
  439. # [18:36] <TabAtkins> I wonder if we pulled MS into this?
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  442. # [18:37] <Dashiva> From my reading of the container spec, a regular matroska splitter should be able to handle webm, so support could get in via regular codec packs too
  443. # [18:37] <Dashiva> Needs VP8 added, of course :)
  444. # [18:37] <Lachy> Dashiva, existing tools just need to add support for the "webm" doctype. But otherwise, yes, WebM is a strict subset of MKV
  445. # [18:38] <Lachy> oh, and they need the VP8 codec to play videos
  446. # [18:38] <Lachy> support in mkvmerge is coming soon. mkvaldiator and mkclean are already out for working with webm
  447. # [18:38] <Philip`> Dashiva: If the Flash player will support it then that sounds good, since you only need to encode your video once and you can have decent fallback in all browsers
  448. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> Yup, Adobe CTO is up on stage talking about it right now.
  449. # [18:39] <Dashiva> Is the blog really supposed to be private?
  450. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> I suspect that's a mistake.
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  452. # [18:42] <Rik`> What about WebM and live streaming ?
  453. # [18:43] <Lachy> Rik`, live streaming could theoretically be done with VP8. But the video element isn't really optimised for live streaming in HTML yet
  454. # [18:43] <Lachy> Skype, for example, is adopting VP8 for video conferencing
  455. # [18:43] <Rik`> great
  456. # [18:43] <Lachy> I don't think they'll be using the webm container though
  457. # [18:43] <Dashiva> Someone started looking at the markup
  458. # [18:44] <Dashiva> <a href="http://www.android.com"><img src="/media/images/logos/android.jpg" title="Android" alt=""></a>
  459. # [18:44] <jwalden> nice alt-attributing there
  460. # [18:44] <Lachy> all this webm stuff is really old news to me though now. I've known for a month. I'm just waiting for a response from Apple and Microsoft
  461. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> We're horrible with accessibility. ;_;
  462. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> Lachy: Hey, let the rest of us be excited that we finally got confirmation.
  463. # [18:45] * Philip` wonders what company will be the first to sue over patents in VP8
  464. # [18:45] <Lachy> Yay, he just announced VP8 in Flash :-)
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  466. # [18:46] <Lachy> TabAtkins, don't you work for Google now? Didn't you know?
  467. # [18:46] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-qxyvvzxjdbgqyrny)
  468. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> No! They were very secretive.
  469. # [18:46] <Lachy> wow
  470. # [18:46] <Dashiva> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377
  471. # [18:46] <Rik`> Lachy: I bet the answer will be "hardware support?"
  472. # [18:47] <gsnedders> Lachy: You do realize most large tech companies are like that?
  473. # [18:47] * Joins: tndH (~Rob@cpc2-leed18-0-0-cust427.leed.cable.ntl.com)
  474. # [18:47] <TabAtkins> Nobody cares about leaks from Opera, since no one can understand norwegian anyway.
  475. # [18:47] <Lachy> haha
  476. # [18:47] * Quits: Phae (~phaeness@gatej.thls.bbc.co.uk)
  477. # [18:49] <Lachy> Rik`, the answer to what?
  478. # [18:49] <Lachy> oh, you mean from Microsoft and Apple?
  479. # [18:49] <Rik`> yep
  480. # [18:49] <Lachy> yeah, my guess is that Apple and Microsoft will come back with 2 responses: 1. Patent trolls. 2. Hardware support not yet available.
  481. # [18:50] <Lachy> But it's coming soon, see the hardware vendors listed on webmproject.org
  482. # [18:50] <Dashiva> The x264 article claims part of vp8 is extremely similar to h264
  483. # [18:50] <Dashiva> Intra Prediction section
  484. # [18:51] <Rik`> Lachy: I'd like to, but the blog is closed right now
  485. # [18:51] <TabAtkins> We're obviously willing to swallow the patent risk.
  486. # [18:52] <jcranmer> if hardware vendors are implementing it, they're willing to do patent risk
  487. # [18:52] <jcranmer> at which point the target audience is very broad
  488. # [18:53] <jcranmer> it's harder to argue patent risk
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  490. # [18:57] <Rik`> what about subtitles and multiple audio tracks in WebM ?
  491. # [18:58] <Philip`> Dashiva: Not just part of it
  492. # [18:58] <Philip`> "VP8 is simply way too similar to H.264: a pithy, if slightly inaccurate, description of VP8 would be “H.264 Baseline Profile with a better entropy coder”. Though I am not a lawyer, I simply cannot believe that they will be able to get away with this, especially in today’s overly litigious day and age. Even VC-1 differed more from H.264 than VP8 does, and even VC-1 didn’t manage to escape the clutches of software patents."
  493. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> Well, subtitles are being handles in <video> now.
  494. # [18:58] <erlehmann> TabAtkins, i must have missed that. link ?
  495. # [18:58] * Joins: scherkus (~scherkus@74.125.59.73)
  496. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> erlehmann: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/video.html#the-track-element
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  516. # [19:31] <Dashiva> "But, by many accounts, Firefox is no longer considered to be the light, open alternative it once was."
  517. # [19:32] <Dashiva> When was the last time anyone called firefox light in a non-sarcastic way? :)
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  523. # [19:50] <miketaylr> " In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 video as well as VP8 video when the user has installed a VP8 codec on Windows."
  524. # [19:50] <miketaylr> http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2010/05/19/another-follow-up-on-html5-video-in-ie9.aspx
  525. # [19:51] <Rik`> Lachy: In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 video as well as VP8 video when the user has installed a VP8 codec on Windows.
  526. # [19:51] <Rik`> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/
  527. # [19:51] <Rik`> oops
  528. # [19:51] <Rik`> http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2010/05/19/another-follow-up-on-html5-video-in-ie9.aspx
  529. # [19:51] <miketaylr> :D
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  537. # [19:59] <virtuelv> oh, the x264 guy is ripping into vp8 again
  538. # [19:59] <virtuelv> http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377
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  541. # [20:03] <TabAtkins> Hm. Given that webm uses a subset of the matroska format, does that mean that any player that understands matroska and has a vp8 codec will play webm?
  542. # [20:03] * TabAtkins doesn't know enough about video technical details.
  543. # [20:03] <Dashiva> Except the doctype name, apparently yes
  544. # [20:04] <Dashiva> Not sure how much the doctype actually means in mkv files
  545. # [20:07] <Lachy> TabAtkins, players need to add support for the webm doctype. In EBML, you need to understand the doctype in order to parse the file properly
  546. # [20:08] <Lachy> at least, if your implementation is following EBML, and isn't just assuming that any EBML file is a Matroska file.
  547. # [20:08] <Lachy> mkvinfo, however, already does ignore the doctype, and parses any file like matroska
  548. # [20:08] <TabAtkins> So is it accurate or not for Microsoft to say that as long as someone has a vp8 codec on their system, IE9 will automatically play webm?
  549. # [20:09] <Dashiva> You need support for both the container and the video codec
  550. # [20:09] <Dashiva> (and the audio, does windows 7 come with vorbis?)
  551. # [20:10] <daedb> Vorbis is not included in any version of Windows
  552. # [20:10] <Lachy> yes. The DirectShow filters should add support
  553. # [20:11] <Philip`> I can't figure out from the set of IEBlog posts whether IE9 will support any video formats that are supported by DirectShow
  554. # [20:11] * daedb just tested a 720p WebM vid from Youtube i WMP after installing the Directshow filters, and it works great
  555. # [20:11] <Philip`> or whether they're specifically filtering it to only allow H.264/VP8
  556. # [20:11] <TabAtkins> Philip`: Sounds like the former.
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  558. # [20:12] <daedb> Didn't they say earlier that they weren't going to allow any random DS codec in IE9?
  559. # [20:12] <Dashiva> Is there a lenna.webm? :)
  560. # [20:13] <Philip`> Dashiva: Let me know if you find any clear quotes saying that :-)
  561. # [20:13] <Philip`> Um
  562. # [20:13] <Philip`> daedb: ^
  563. # [20:13] <Lachy> daedb, if you have 5.1 channel audio support, try it with this video http://lachy.id.au/lib/media/elephantsdream/Elephants_Dream-720p-5.1.webm
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  565. # [20:14] <Lachy> there's a stereo version of that available there too
  566. # [20:15] <Dashiva> How long is that video?
  567. # [20:16] <Lachy> about 10 minutes
  568. # [20:16] <Lachy> if you want to watch something longer, try http://lachy.id.au/lib/media/sitasingstheblues/Sita_Sings_the_Blues-360p-Stereo.webm
  569. # [20:16] <Lachy> I don't have that in 720p yet
  570. # [20:17] <Lachy> and my experience with 1080p WebM wasn't great. The software decoding is too slow, at least for the encoding parameters I used at the time.
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  572. # [20:17] <Lachy> There may be a way to make it more efficient, but I'm still trying to understand all the different parameters
  573. # [20:19] <Rik`> Lachy: the Opera Labs Mac version asks me to download your first video
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  575. # [20:21] <Dashiva> Hum, 10 minutes at 720p for 150 MB
  576. # [20:22] <Dashiva> Guess that's not so bad
  577. # [20:22] <daedb> Philip`: "In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 video only." and "To be clear, users can install other codecs for use in Windows Media Player and Windows Media Center. For web browsers, developers can continue to offer plug-ins (using NPAPI or ActiveX; they are effectively equivalent in this scenario) so that webpages can play video using these codecs on Windows." are about the most clear statements I've seen. Both are
  578. # [20:22] <daedb> from the IE blog.
  579. # [20:23] <Philip`> Dashiva: How can you deduce that it is not bad from the file size?
  580. # [20:24] <Philip`> You could probably get that size with MJPEG with quality=5, but it wouldn't be not so bad
  581. # [20:25] <virtuelv> http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2010/05/19/another-follow-up-on-html5-video-in-ie9.aspx
  582. # [20:25] <virtuelv> In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 video as well as VP8 video when the user has installed a VP8 codec on Windows.
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  585. # [20:27] <Dashiva> Philip`: I can deduce that it's not so bad from the fact that it doesn't have a much larger file size than similar h264 files I have
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  587. # [20:30] <virtuelv> hm
  588. # [20:30] <virtuelv> that elephant's dream was choppy for me
  589. # [20:30] <virtuelv> then again, I have no hw acceleration
  590. # [20:30] <virtuelv> but what bothered me was that the video seemed to need deblocking
  591. # [20:31] <virtuelv> it appeared to have what I can best describe as low-quuality jpeg artifacts in some frames
  592. # [20:31] <virtuelv> (this doesn't reflect my experience with the videos on youtube
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  598. # [20:59] <erlehmann> virtuelv, well, it will probably play theora with xiph components, won't it ?
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  602. # [21:12] <svl> Lachy: your Mozilla Firefox link in http://lachy.id.au/log/2010/05/webm points to chromium
  603. # [21:13] <TabAtkins> svl: Surprise!
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  671. # Session Close: Thu May 20 00:00:00 2010

The end :)