/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-05-31 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  56. # [05:51] <GPHemsley> What exactly does this mean? "Table column 13 established by element col has no cells beginning in it."
  57. # [06:07] <MikeSmith> GPHemsley: it means the table is malformed because the col element makes the table algorithm expect there to be a cell in a certain place but the later table markup does not actually produce the expected cell
  58. # [06:08] <GPHemsley> the only thing I can think of is that there is a colspan="2" but never two column separately
  59. # [06:15] <MikeSmith> GPHemsley: if you have a test case I'd be glad to take a look also
  60. # [06:16] <MikeSmith> it could actually be a bug in the v.nu table-integrity-checking code
  61. # [06:19] <GPHemsley> MikeSmith: This is what I'm working on ATM: http://gphemsley.org/linguistics/en/trace_table.php
  62. # [06:19] <GPHemsley> and it's broken as it currently stands
  63. # [06:19] <GPHemsley> (=invalid)
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  66. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> weird
  67. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> it has 13 columns, right?
  68. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> unless I'm counting wrong
  69. # [06:21] <GPHemsley> right now, all of the cells in the beta/V(PASS) column are colspan="2"
  70. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> or unless it counts the first as zer
  71. # [06:22] <MikeSmith> ok
  72. # [06:22] <GPHemsley> and the 13th column would be the second column in that span
  73. # [06:22] <GPHemsley> AFAICT
  74. # [06:22] <GPHemsley> which, indeed, does not currently exist anywhere
  75. # [06:22] <MikeSmith> ah, yeah, I see what you're saying
  76. # [06:23] <MikeSmith> so you have no col element at all, I see
  77. # [06:23] <MikeSmith> oh, sorry
  78. # [06:23] <MikeSmith> I see now
  79. # [06:23] <MikeSmith> colgroup/col
  80. # [06:23] <GPHemsley> yeah
  81. # [06:23] <GPHemsley> it's mention in a <col> and in @colspan, but no <td> or <th>
  82. # [06:24] <GPHemsley> IOW, it's only mentioned implicitly, not explicitly
  83. # [06:33] <MikeSmith> what happens if you just delete the colgroups and cols?
  84. # [06:34] <MikeSmith> it seems like it doesn't have any effect on the rendering at least
  85. # [06:36] <GPHemsley> hmm... incidentally, it considers it an error if you don't have the same amount of cols/colgroups as your table
  86. # [06:36] <GPHemsley> (I at first only commented out the one colgroup)
  87. # [06:37] <GPHemsley> MikeSmith: It still complains, it appears
  88. # [06:37] <GPHemsley> "Table column 13 established by element th has no cells beginning in it."
  89. # [06:45] <MikeSmith> GPHemsley: maybe I'm being daft, but I can't understand why you have a colspan=2 on the column at all
  90. # [06:45] <GPHemsley> because it's a WIP :)
  91. # [06:45] <MikeSmith> it's a normal column, right?
  92. # [06:46] <GPHemsley> I plan on adding more rows to the table ;)
  93. # [06:46] <MikeSmith> ah
  94. # [06:46] <GPHemsley> and some of them will have two-column entries under that header
  95. # [06:48] <GPHemsley> so, what's the verdict?
  96. # [06:48] <GPHemsley> is it a bug?
  97. # [06:48] <MikeSmith> not a bug
  98. # [06:49] <MikeSmith> if you change all your <td colspan="2">&empty;</td> for that column
  99. # [06:49] <MikeSmith> in the body of the table
  100. # [06:49] <MikeSmith> change those to <td>&empty;</td><td>&empty;</td>
  101. # [06:49] <MikeSmith> it validates
  102. # [06:49] <GPHemsley> right, as I would expect
  103. # [06:50] <MikeSmith> yeah, so what it is telling you is that you have set up an unneeded colspan=2 column all the way down
  104. # [06:50] <MikeSmith> I guess
  105. # [06:50] <GPHemsley> yeah, makes sense
  106. # [06:50] <GPHemsley> although it's a little weird that it's an error, IMO
  107. # [06:50] <GPHemsley> (rather than a warning)
  108. # [06:50] <GPHemsley> but IDK what the spec says to do
  109. # [06:51] <MikeSmith> yeah, me neither
  110. # [06:51] <MikeSmith> but I suspect that if Henri has the code reporting it as an error, it's because the spec says it's an error
  111. # [06:51] <GPHemsley> :)
  112. # [06:52] <MikeSmith> now, whether the spec should define it as an error or not is arguable, I guess
  113. # [06:53] * GPHemsley pokes hsivonen and Hixie
  114. # [06:57] <MikeSmith> <BoazSender> @paul_irish will be sorely missed: http://twitpic.com/1sn5pn
  115. # [06:57] <MikeSmith> beautiful
  116. # [06:57] <MikeSmith> I guess that image is the work of f1lt3r
  117. # [06:58] <f1lt3r> haha
  118. # [06:58] <f1lt3r> you guessed right
  119. # [06:58] <paul_irish> very nice work, al. :)
  120. # [06:58] <paul_irish> <3z
  121. # [06:58] <f1lt3r> haha
  122. # [06:58] <f1lt3r> what you doin in here?
  123. # [06:59] <f1lt3r> yeah i thought you'd get a kick out of it
  124. # [06:59] <paul_irish> i'm sweeping my old apt. about to leave it for the last time. and you know.. hanging out on IRC
  125. # [06:59] <f1lt3r> crazy times!
  126. # [07:00] <boaz> I definitely laughed!
  127. # [07:00] <f1lt3r> hey what the wg are you doing in here too?!
  128. # [07:00] * f1lt3r checks to see if his grandma is in here too
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  130. # [07:02] * GPHemsley wonders why <col style> still isn't supported in Firefox...
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  132. # [07:24] <hsivonen> krijnh: the <!-- in style thing is fixed on trunk
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  140. # [08:05] <Hixie> so anyone know what's going on with the issues that went to poll last month?
  141. # [08:05] <Hixie> sorry, earlier this month, not last month
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  153. # [08:54] <hsivonen> Hixie: nothing visible going on as far as I can tell
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  173. # [10:22] * hsivonen fails to see the multitouch-relevance of http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9822
  174. # [10:23] <aho> huh?
  175. # [10:23] <aho> what's that bug report even supposed to mean?
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  177. # [10:34] <jgraham> Hixie: Welcome back :)
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  181. # [10:41] <boblet> MikeSmithX: here’s a report of the Fukuoka HTML5 event in Gigazine, in case you missed it: http://gigazine.net/index.php?/news/comments/20100529_html5/
  182. # [10:41] <boblet> your dearly departed mustache makes an appearance, may it rest in peace
  183. # [10:43] * hsivonen encourages security-minded folks to think about http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9659#c2
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  185. # [10:44] <hsivonen> I'm a bit disappointed that no one from Microsoft shared any insight on http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9767 even though I advertised it on public-html
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  187. # [10:46] <hsivonen> shepazu: any news on the load event from the SVG WG?
  188. # [10:47] <hsivonen> shepazu: should I send email amending my change request to request that the load event be dropped from non-<svg> elements altogether?
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  192. # [10:59] <MikeSmithX> boblet: thanks
  193. # [11:00] <MikeSmithX> I got Shimokawa-san's mail about that but hadn't looked yet
  194. # [11:00] <boblet> aah ok
  195. # [11:00] <MikeSmithX> seems like a very good writeup
  196. # [11:00] <boblet> seems like everyone enjoyed it, which was good
  197. # [11:00] <boblet> yeah
  198. # [11:01] <boblet> bbl
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  228. # [12:21] <jgraham> hsivonen: I assume you failing the html5lib tests like <!DOCTYPE html><p><b><i><u></p> <p>X is deliberate? Do you have a bug for the spec change you anticipate?
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  237. # [12:34] <hsivonen> jgraham: the test that fail due to space character interaction of space characters with formatting elements are known
  238. # [12:35] <hsivonen> *tests
  239. # [12:35] <hsivonen> jgraham: and deferring fixing is deliberate
  240. # [12:36] <jgraham> hsivonen: You consider it a bug in the spec or in gecko?
  241. # [12:36] <hsivonen> jgraham: whether the failure itself should be considered deliberate isn't quite so clear to me, but I tend to think that it'd bad to make "in body" sensitive to spaceness
  242. # [12:36] <hsivonen> jgraham: I consider it a bug in Gecko, but more careful thinking might persuade me to consider it a bug in the spec
  243. # [12:37] <hsivonen> I think how forcefully I will consider it a spec bug will depend on performance metrics that I don't have at this time
  244. # [12:38] <jgraham> hsivonen: OK, thanks. Maybe we should have a list on a wiki page or something of possible issues? I seem to recall that there were some other things that you considered bugs in the spec?
  245. # [12:39] <hsivonen> jgraham: the other spec bugs are on file
  246. # [12:39] <jgraham> hsivonen: Is there a list somewhere?
  247. # [12:40] <hsivonen> jgraham: except I think Hixie avoided fixing one bug I had filed before and I should take the time to repursue
  248. # [12:40] <hsivonen> (that was about freezing src, async and defer)
  249. # [12:41] <hsivonen> jgraham: you get a list if you search for bugs reported by hsivonen@iki.fi in the W3C bugzilla
  250. # [12:42] * Joins: cedricv (~cedric@180.129.3.129)
  251. # [12:44] <hsivonen> the src, async defer thing is only detectable if you document.write a script start tag, then use the DOM to modify the element and then write the end tag
  252. # [12:46] * Joins: myakura (~myakura@p2062-ipbf37marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  253. # [12:49] <hsivonen> jgraham: but yeah, we should probably have a wiki page
  254. # [12:50] <hsivonen> jgraham: any ideas for the title? "Possible bugs in the HTML5 parsing algorithm according to hsivonen"? :-)
  255. # [12:51] <jgraham> hsivonen: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/ParserIssues
  256. # [12:51] <hsivonen> jgraham: ok
  257. # [12:51] <jgraham> Does that list seem complete
  258. # [12:51] <jgraham> ?
  259. # [12:52] <hsivonen> jgraham: I'm adding the missing bits
  260. # [12:53] <jgraham> hsivonen: Thanks
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  264. # [13:00] <hsivonen> jgraham: updated
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  266. # [13:04] <jgraham> great
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  269. # [13:13] <boblet> anyone know what’s up with HTML5 + ARIA? Wasn’t there a combo spec? I found Mike’s H:TML (ARIA edition) but it’s Sept 2009, so I’m guessing not being updated…
  270. # [13:14] * riven` is now known as riven
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  272. # [13:17] <hsivonen> boblet: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/content-models.html#annotations-for-assistive-technology-products-%28aria%29
  273. # [13:18] <hsivonen> boblet: so ARIA still lives in its own specs and HTML5 references those
  274. # [13:19] <boblet> hsivonen: aah, naruhodo. Yeah I’d found that, but obviously needed to read the first sentence more thoroughly
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  276. # [13:19] <boblet> AT is a rather sad state of affairs. Luckily NVDA is eating their lunch so they’ll be forced to evolve or die
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  278. # [13:21] <boblet> couldn’t believe the attitude of Window-Eyes devs; ‘spec not finished so not worth our time til then’ O_o
  279. # [13:21] <boblet> doesn’t help that they have major bugs with new elements + landmark roles either
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  281. # [13:22] <hsivonen> boblet: "spec" being ARIA or HTML5?
  282. # [13:22] <boblet> hsivonen: HTML5
  283. # [13:23] <boblet> oh, is ARIA not doe either? har! well I guess that reasoning means they don’t really need to support anything then
  284. # [13:23] <boblet> s/doe/done/
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  286. # [13:23] <hsivonen> boblet: ARIA is at WD
  287. # [13:26] <boblet> “Not only is HTML5 still in draft, there are parts of ARIA that are sill not completely set in stone. This is another reason why providing some sort of release time frame is difficult; the technologies are a moving target” http://www.mail-archive.com/gw-info@gwmicro.com/msg10851.html
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  289. # [13:27] <boblet> so they appear to be waiting, although not until 2022 it seems
  290. # [13:30] <hsivonen> boblet: I guess they haven't gotten the memo about the interdependency of spec maturity and implementations
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  292. # [13:32] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I did some hacking to the v.nu datatype code today in an attempt to improve error-reporting for IRIs a bit
  293. # [13:32] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: cool
  294. # [13:32] <MikeSmith> current results: http://www.w3.org/html/check?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fbugzilla.validator.nu%2Fattachment.cgi%3Fid%3D177
  295. # [13:33] <MikeSmith> compare to current source: http://validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fbugzilla.validator.nu%2Fattachment.cgi%3Fid%3D177
  296. # [13:33] <MikeSmith> trying to make the messages a little more user friendly
  297. # [13:34] <MikeSmith> e.g., instead of "DNS_LABEL_DASH_START_OR_END in HOST", "Host component contains a DNS name with a - (dash) character at the beginning or end."
  298. # [13:34] <MikeSmith> etc.
  299. # [13:36] <MikeSmith> along the way, discovered a couple of other IRI-checking cases that it seems like should be reported as warnings instead of errors
  300. # [13:36] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: that's great!
  301. # [13:37] <MikeSmith> I think there's probably a few cases I missed
  302. # [13:37] <MikeSmith> but anyway, for those cases, it'll just fall back to reporting them the same way as the existing code
  303. # [13:38] <hsivonen> ok
  304. # [13:38] <MikeSmith> anyway, will send you a patch after I test it some more
  305. # [13:38] <hsivonen> ok
  306. # [13:38] <MikeSmith> and maybe if I can get zcorpan_ to throw some other test cases at it
  307. # [13:39] <hsivonen> about the Jing patch: I need to check what kind of copyright bureaucracy the project requires (if any) before I land the patch
  308. # [13:39] <MikeSmith> ah
  309. # [13:39] <MikeSmith> ok
  310. # [13:40] <MikeSmith> no rush, anyway
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  312. # [13:41] * hsivonen MikeSmith I take it that you are contributing the Jing patch the same way as other V.nu patches, i.e. under the same license as the file being patched and waiving notices?
  313. # [13:41] <hsivonen> doh
  314. # [13:41] <MikeSmith> heh
  315. # [13:42] <MikeSmith> I guess that was supposed to be a DM
  316. # [13:42] <hsivonen> yeah
  317. # [13:42] <MikeSmith> good thing you didn't reveal any secrets of the inner cabal there
  318. # [13:42] <MikeSmith> anyway, yeah, same terms as always
  319. # [13:42] <annevk> you guys keeping secrets? ooh
  320. # [13:42] <hsivonen> ok
  321. # [13:45] <Dashiva> There are no secrets... that you know of
  322. # [13:45] <MikeSmith> annevk: all of it is stuff you already signed an NDA on too
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  324. # [13:45] <MikeSmith> annevk: plus remember the blood-brother ceremony
  325. # [13:45] <hsivonen> a new binary release of the V.nu parser is long overdue
  326. # [13:46] <hsivonen> but every time I get close to the point of releasing, there's still One More Thing to fix first...
  327. # [13:46] <MikeSmith> heh
  328. # [13:46] <hsivonen> this time the changes to named character references in attribute values
  329. # [13:47] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: because of a spec change?
  330. # [13:47] * Joins: AnthonyCat (~AnthonyCa@CPE-58-175-25-194.mqdl1.lon.bigpond.net.au)
  331. # [13:47] <MikeSmith> recent spec change?
  332. # [13:47] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: yeah
  333. # [13:47] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: fairly recent
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  335. # [13:47] <hsivonen> before that, my excuse was </a> and </font> in SVG
  336. # [13:49] * Joins: paul_irish (~paul_iris@209.117.47.253)
  337. # [13:53] <boblet> hsivonen: …or the one about how being involved is a good thing :/ oh well, what can you do. With the free NVDA already supporting ARIA and some HTML5 too…
  338. # [13:53] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
  339. # [13:58] <MikeSmith> ah cool, Opera 10.6 gots onhashchange
  340. # [13:59] <hsivonen> does it have WebM?
  341. # [13:59] <gsnedders> hsivonen: no
  342. # [13:59] <hsivonen> :-(
  343. # [14:02] * hsivonen wonders if Opera has a solid plan for <video> in Mini and Mobile
  344. # [14:09] * Joins: slartsa (~Lari@adsl-215-234-204.kymp.net)
  345. # [14:10] <annevk> http://twitter.com/Klok_Domtoren lol
  346. # [14:13] <Peter`> They based that on the London clock account
  347. # [14:14] <Peter`> http://twitter.com/big_ben_CLOCK
  348. # [14:14] <Dashiva> Localization is important
  349. # [14:14] <Peter`> but yeah, the idea is quite.. original
  350. # [14:14] <svl> see also http://twitter.com/NotreDameDParis
  351. # [14:14] <svl> actually: http://twitter.com/memowe/kirchen-die-twittern
  352. # [14:15] <annevk> great
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  358. # [14:25] <Lachy> Awesome. Now all we need is someone to implement NTP over Twitter. :-)
  359. # [14:25] <hsivonen> can't fail
  360. # [14:25] <Lachy> ... or Twitter Time Protocol
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  364. # [14:31] <Dashiva> I guess you could get second precision via twitter, which is enough for normal human use
  365. # [14:43] <Lachy> I'm not sure you could even get that level of precision any more. It may have been possible when they were sending out tweets in near real time when they had Jabber support.
  366. # [14:44] <Lachy> But I don't think it's possible with the current API setup that, AIUI, needs to be done by the client polling twitter for updates at regular intervals.
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  371. # [14:58] <Philip`> Surely you could just use a timestamp from an HTTP header in the response from the Twitter API, instead of looking in the actual tweet to work out the time
  372. # [14:58] <Philip`> or would that be considered an unacceptable layering violation?
  373. # [14:59] <gsnedders> Philip`: The server isn't required to return the right value
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  376. # [15:01] <Philip`> gsnedders: It's even less required to return the right value in the response body
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  379. # [15:02] <jgraham> Philip`: Presumably the contents of the response body count as application-level semantics
  380. # [15:02] <jgraham> It's true that twitter doesn't make any promises
  381. # [15:02] <jgraham> So using twitter for time would probably be a bad idea
  382. # [15:03] <Lachy> The inefficiency of twitter for this purpose doesn't seem to stop people from trying http://twitter.com/CurrentTime
  383. # [15:04] <jgraham> The inefficiency of twitter for any and all communications doesn't stop people trying
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  387. # [15:15] <hsivonen> I guess now my only excuse for not making a release of the V.nu parser is the 8000 byte limit
  388. # [15:16] <hsivonen> so it will be slow unless run with a special VM switch
  389. # [15:16] <hsivonen> I wonder if I should make a release anyway or develop a workaround...
  390. # [15:17] <hsivonen> I guess I should develop a workaround...
  391. # [15:25] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I redeployed V.nu without your recently landed patches and mine
  392. # [15:25] <MikeSmith> ok
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  394. # [15:32] <variable> hsivonen: what is v.nu ?
  395. # [15:33] <hsivonen> variable: validator.nu
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  415. # [16:56] <aliok> hi everybody
  416. # [16:57] <annevk> hi hi
  417. # [16:57] <aliok> can anyone direct me a good demo of Html5 <output> element?
  418. # [16:58] <aliok> Btw, I am working on my GSoC project Apache MyFaces Html5 Support: http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/GSoC2010_HTML5
  419. # [16:58] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@p2062-ipbf37marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  420. # [16:59] <annevk> aliok, http://www.whatwg.org/demos/2008-sept/widgets/demo2.html
  421. # [16:59] <annevk> oh oops
  422. # [16:59] <annevk> looks like Hixie used a <span> rather than <output>
  423. # [16:59] <annevk> anyway, that <span> there should be <output> :)
  424. # [17:00] <aliok> yeah, I see :)
  425. # [17:00] <aliok> thanks
  426. # [17:01] <aliok> but, what about @for @mode and @defaultValue attributes? any example using them? especially @for?
  427. # [17:03] <annevk> defaultValue is a DOM attribute
  428. # [17:03] <annevk> for allows you to couple it to the input box; can be useful for screen readers
  429. # [17:03] * Quits: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-160-217.unitymediagroup.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  430. # [17:03] <annevk> they prolly do not implement that yet but maybe in the future
  431. # [17:03] <annevk> and I've no idea what mode is
  432. # [17:03] <jgraham> Philip`: Where did you hide your O'Caml HTML5 parser?
  433. # [17:03] <annevk> in other news...
  434. # [17:04] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/2010/05/31-svg-minutes.html#item05 -- "<AlexD> Given how long it will take HTML5 to mature (i.e. PREC) then perhaps SVG needs to take some lead in an HTML(4)+SVG integration profile... HTML5 is a bit of vapourware right now really."
  435. # [17:04] <jgraham> Good lord, who are these people and which universe do they live in?
  436. # [17:04] <Philip`> jgraham: I cunningly hid it on the internet
  437. # [17:04] <hsivonen> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=558036 hasn't landed, yet, so @for support can't be demoed in Gecko plus screen reader yet
  438. # [17:05] <hsivonen> who is AlexD?
  439. # [17:05] <aliok> thanks annevk
  440. # [17:05] <Philip`> jgraham: Looks like it's at http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/svn/tokeniser/
  441. # [17:06] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=19480&public=1 -- "Alex Danilo"
  442. # [17:06] * Quits: Maurice (~ano@a80-101-46-164.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Quit: Disconnected...)
  443. # [17:06] <annevk> aliok, where did you find "mode"?
  444. # [17:07] <jgraham> Philip`: Thanks
  445. # [17:07] <karlushi> Alex Danilo was? working for Canon
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  451. # [17:17] <annevk> he's listed as invited expert; I think I met him once, back in the CDF / WICD days...
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  456. # [17:50] * gsnedders gets peckish, looks for food in his flat, and realizes he has almost none. That seems problematic.
  457. # [17:56] <jgraham> You could take up a religion that enforces fasting until sunset
  458. # [17:59] <Lachy> jgraham, adopting such a religion in this part of the world would be torture during summer.
  459. # [17:59] <jgraham> Lachy: I realise :)
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  461. # [18:01] <jgraham> gsnedders: (alternatively I recommend exchaning money for food)
  462. # [18:02] <gsnedders> jgraham: That means walking past work, and that seems too much like reminding me that I'm not a free bird.
  463. # [18:06] <jgraham> gsnedders: You have too little route planning imagination
  464. # [18:06] <gsnedders> :P
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  474. # [18:30] <jgraham> I love the fact that even though the STIX fonts have been released, there will be no LaTeX versions for another year
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  476. # [18:32] <Philip`> Does that mean a real year, or a STIX "year"?
  477. # [18:34] <jgraham> I guess it means a STIX year
  478. # [18:34] <jgraham> Which could be as much as a decade
  479. # [18:34] <jgraham> to those using normal calendars
  480. # [18:36] <jgraham> I suppose a consistent viewpoint would be that the STIX people are moving at a highly relatvistic velocity with respect to the rest of us
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  485. # [18:42] * Philip` wonders to what extent the notation of modern mathematics is driven by font availability rather than by more traditional factors like readability
  486. # [18:43] <Philip`> (I assume that e.g. Leibniz could write down the integral symbol without having to care whether it was already supported by his typesetting package)
  487. # [18:43] <Philip`> (but nowadays it takes far too much effort to make up completely new symbols)
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  526. # [21:05] <GPHemsley> MikeSmithX: If you're interested, this is now much more complete: http://gphemsley.org/linguistics/en/trace_table.php
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  539. # [21:42] <boaz> yo!
  540. # [21:42] <boaz> whatwg!
  541. # [21:42] <boaz> im working on some css3 animations. anyone in here know about matrix syntax for the filter prop in IE?
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  543. # [21:49] <boaz> MikeSmittXX
  544. # [21:50] <boaz> do you know who i would talk to about IE css filter matrix syntax?
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  547. # [21:54] <Philip`> boaz: You should probably talk to Microsoft people
  548. # [21:55] <boaz> Philip :(
  549. # [21:55] <Philip`> or use http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms533014(VS.85).aspx
  550. # [21:55] <boaz> yah, im on msdn, the matrix syntax seems to not be documented
  551. # [21:55] <boaz> er, at least, the syntax for what I want do
  552. # [21:55] <boaz> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms533014(VS.85,loband).aspx
  553. # [21:56] <boaz> im looking for something like this: matrix(a, c, b, d, tx, ty)
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  555. # [21:57] <Philip`> It looks like it's just a list of the specified properties - progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.Matrix(m11=1, m12=0, m21=1, m22=0, dx=0, dy=0)
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  558. # [22:02] <boaz> philip: hmm
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The end :)