/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-06-05 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jun 05 00:00:01 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  5. # [00:17] <AryehGregor> "Interesting" is an excellent description for how Linux works in so many cases. :)
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  8. # [00:21] <tabatkins> Given <label><input type=checkbox><a href=#>foo</a></label>, I *think* that the 3.2.5.1 algo says to activate the link (and not toggle the checkbox) when you click the link.
  9. # [00:21] <tabatkins> Yes/no?
  10. # [00:21] * tabatkins is now known as TabAtkins
  11. # [00:22] <Dashiva> 3.2.5.1 Kinds of content?
  12. # [00:22] <TabAtkins> Sorry, 3.2.5.1.7
  13. # [00:22] <Dashiva> ah
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  15. # [00:23] <TabAtkins> It looks like you click on the <a>, the <a> is the nearest activatable element, then you run the click steps on it.
  16. # [00:23] <Dashiva> Yeah
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  21. # [00:41] <TabAtkins> AryehGregor: Any way to trigger a monospace font in mediawiki?
  22. # [00:41] <AryehGregor> <span style="font-family:monospace">, <tt>, <code>, . . .
  23. # [00:41] <AryehGregor> You can also begin a line with a space.
  24. # [00:41] <TabAtkins> Danke.
  25. # [00:42] <TabAtkins> Ah, cool.
  26. # [00:42] <TabAtkins> Someone stupid did the examples for the box-drawing characters using a table for some reason.
  27. # [00:43] <TabAtkins> Apparently it's for some sort of compat? Whatever. <pre><code> will work as expected?
  28. # [00:44] <AryehGregor> <pre> is magic in MediaWiki.
  29. # [00:44] <AryehGregor> It means the same as <pre><nowiki>, so the contents are escaped.
  30. # [00:45] <AryehGregor> So don't use that. An initial space on a line will create a <pre>.
  31. # [00:45] <TabAtkins> kk
  32. # [00:45] <AryehGregor> That's the only way to create a normal <pre>, annoyingly.
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  35. # [00:56] <TabAtkins> AryehGregor: You considered putting in a few -moz-linear-gradient() rules in the places where mediawiki uses gradients?
  36. # [00:56] <AryehGregor> TabAtkins, I didn't know it does use gradients. :)
  37. # [00:57] <TabAtkins> Well, like, the bar on top of each page uses gradients for each item.
  38. # [00:57] <AryehGregor> In the new skin (Vector) or the old one (Monobook)?
  39. # [00:57] <TabAtkins> Of course, it's just a 1x100 px png, but still, one less network request on ff.
  40. # [00:57] <TabAtkins> new one
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  42. # [00:59] <AryehGregor> Well, got to go.
  43. # [01:00] <AryehGregor> Maybe I'll do it later if I remember, or you can remind me if you like.
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  45. # [01:01] <TabAtkins> kk
  46. # [01:01] <TabAtkins> +
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  51. # [01:12] <Dashiva> These web standards are open, reliable, highly secure, and only supported by Safari.
  52. # [01:14] <Dashiva> I accidentally opened the chatlogs from 2008 instead of 2010, and I didn't notice for a while
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  71. # [02:24] <TabAtkins> Man, wth. 4 freaking "google promo" emails have gotten through the spamblocker today.
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  78. # [02:44] <jwm> google knows your spamblocker
  79. # [02:44] <jwm> be afraid
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  107. # [05:29] <MikeSmith> I'm trying to understand what the validation errors at http://validator.nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Feyeasme.com%2FJoe%2FMathML%2FHTML5%2Fextras.html
  108. # [05:30] <MikeSmith> the initial error is because you can't have an HTML img element in SVG content served as text/html
  109. # [05:30] <MikeSmith> right?
  110. # [05:32] <MikeSmith> er, make that MathML content
  111. # [05:35] <MikeSmith> I thought for this case the parser is supposed to just ignore the img, then pop the open MathML annotation-xml element from the stack and proceed from there
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  115. # [05:56] * Hixie tries to decode http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jun/0001.html to work out what the reason is for removing the text
  116. # [05:56] <Hixie> does anybody know what the actual reason behind the "widespread belief" that the paragraph is harmful might be?
  117. # [05:56] <Hixie> nothing seems to actually explain what the reason is...
  118. # [05:57] <aho> huh? :)
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  126. # [06:03] <jwm> Hixie: ?
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  129. # [06:03] <jwm> you there?
  130. # [06:04] <Hixie> here
  131. # [06:04] <jwm> cool
  132. # [06:04] <jwm> is there anyone wanting to do websocket serving in browsers?
  133. # [06:04] <jwm> I know the peer to peer provisions got removed
  134. # [06:04] <jwm> but I have some big plans for doing web p2p
  135. # [06:04] <Hixie> the peer to peer stuff got moved to a differnet part of the spec
  136. # [06:04] <Hixie> but it's still there
  137. # [06:04] <jwm> ohh it is?
  138. # [06:04] <Hixie> search for PeerToPeer
  139. # [06:04] <jwm> I didn't see it anymore
  140. # [06:04] <Hixie> it's very immature so far
  141. # [06:05] <jwm> yeah anyway I could help?
  142. # [06:05] <Hixie> sorry, "peer-to-peer", not "PeerToPeer"
  143. # [06:05] <jwm> I'm really serious about p2p on web as a platform
  144. # [06:05] <Hixie> interface name is ConnectionPeer
  145. # [06:05] <jwm> I think it's the only way to attempt to avoid firewalls/packet inspection properly heh
  146. # [06:06] <Hixie> i envisage some sort of mechanism that would let peers connect to each other
  147. # [06:06] <jwm> what about doing that coding in javascript
  148. # [06:07] <Hixie> but with the protocol defined in a spearate working group
  149. # [06:07] <Hixie> coding?
  150. # [06:07] <jwm> I mean relying on client coding to handle peer connections
  151. # [06:07] <jwm> just keep the spec real simple
  152. # [06:07] <jwm> maybe even utilize websockets?
  153. # [06:07] <Hixie> websockets isn't really applicable here
  154. # [06:07] <Hixie> there's nothing about web sockets that makes sense for peer to peer
  155. # [06:08] <jwm> well just being about to serve websockets from a browser should be real simple to do
  156. # [06:08] <jwm> about/able
  157. # [06:08] <Hixie> it would also not solve like 90% of the use cases :-)
  158. # [06:08] <jwm> it's like 5 lines in nodejs
  159. # [06:08] <Hixie> like, you wouldn't be able to connect to it
  160. # [06:08] <Hixie> i think we need a much better solution than that
  161. # [06:09] <jwm> can't we build on websockets?
  162. # [06:09] <jwm> I know we need a firewall breaker utilizing upnp or some other methods
  163. # [06:09] <jwm> but that can be subject to browser implementation
  164. # [06:10] <Hixie> i see nothing in websockets that would be even remotely useful in doing this
  165. # [06:11] <jwm> sad to hear that
  166. # [06:11] <jwm> I think websockets is a nice simple protocol
  167. # [06:11] <jwm> it'd be nice to have a simple low overhead protocol even one already implemented in some form to use and get p2p jump started
  168. # [06:12] <jwm> I guess it can be coded as a plugin for now
  169. # [06:12] <jwm> see if anyone finds it useful
  170. # [06:12] <Hixie> websockets is a very simple protocol, yes -- it has like three features: a handshake with origin protection, a client/server architecture, and framing for text
  171. # [06:13] <Hixie> for peer-to-peer we don't have origins, the architecture is client/client, and the framing needs to support video.
  172. # [06:13] <Hixie> it's like completely different.
  173. # [06:13] <jwm> websockets 2.0 :)
  174. # [06:13] <Hixie> i don't think trying to use websockets is a helpful way forward here
  175. # [06:14] <jwm> it's just a simple way forward
  176. # [06:14] <jwm> I don't think it's bad to be able to share text/base64 coded images
  177. # [06:15] <Hixie> if people start sending base64 encoded data over 8-bit-safe network infrastructure, we've failed.
  178. # [06:16] <jwm> well could websockets be expanded upon and be made binary safe
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  181. # [06:17] <Hixie> man, you're like someone with a hammer who sees everything as a nail :-)
  182. # [06:18] <Hixie> we should design solutions to fit the problems we have
  183. # [06:18] <Hixie> not try to take our existing solutions and bend them to all similar problems
  184. # [06:18] <jwm> I like extending solutions we have already
  185. # [06:18] <jwm> websockets is pretty new and it'd be nice to boost it up :)
  186. # [06:18] <Hixie> no, it really wouldn't :-)
  187. # [06:18] <jwm> I'm actually conforming to the web since I see it as the main future of transporting most content
  188. # [06:18] <Hixie> it would just make it be more complex
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  190. # [06:19] <Hixie> why can't we just make a more appropriate protocol for this use case?
  191. # [06:19] <jwm> really I say screw the web even and let's make more and more efficient protocols tasked for the problem at hand
  192. # [06:19] <Hixie> (or use one of the many existing ones?)
  193. # [06:19] <Hixie> anyway
  194. # [06:19] <jwm> well I'd like the traffic to go across regular protocols/ports
  195. # [06:23] <jwm> ok then I see you don't believe in the same direction
  196. # [06:23] <jwm> could you point me to the new section with the peer to peer area?
  197. # [06:25] <jwm> http://www.mail-archive.com/whatwg@lists.whatwg.org/msg19815.html
  198. # [06:25] <jwm> I guess there have already been discussions on this
  199. # [06:25] <Hixie> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#peer-to-peer-connections
  200. # [06:28] <jwm> really big on video
  201. # [06:29] <Hixie> yeah it was originally intended for video conferencing
  202. # [06:29] <jwm> ahh ok
  203. # [06:29] <jwm> I don't like the third party server concept
  204. # [06:30] <Hixie> we need it, no other way to do double NAT traversal
  205. # [06:32] <jwm> hybrid p2p
  206. # [06:33] <jwm> nat traversal can be done with upnp right?
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  209. # [06:36] <Hixie> jwm: not on my network
  210. # [06:36] <Hixie> upnp is disabled on my router (because it's a HUGE security hole)
  211. # [06:39] <jwm> secure when your computers can be trusted :)
  212. # [06:39] <jwm> (which is never)
  213. # [06:39] <jwm> heh
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  234. # [09:24] <scotfl> raham: aah! I forgot about sectioning root. doh
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  277. # [13:59] <boblet> scotfl: what was your comment on sectioning root in reference to?
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  325. # [17:34] <henrikl> When dealing with legacy systems that depend on RTMP for live streaming of events, is there any support for showing these streams in HTML5?
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  353. # [19:43] <Lachy> Hixie, Requiem 1.9.4 is out. This should work with iTunes 9.1.1
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  414. # [23:02] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@74.61.71.49) (Quit: boaz)
  415. # [23:07] * Joins: MikeSmithX (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-157-224.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  416. # [23:11] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-enhnfmwzfsxjyney)
  417. # [23:14] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@71.21.87.235)
  418. # [23:16] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@71.21.87.235) (Client Quit)
  419. # [23:27] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@71.21.91.227)
  420. # [23:29] * Joins: boaz_ (~boaz@71.21.91.227)
  421. # [23:31] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@71.21.91.227) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  422. # [23:31] * boaz_ is now known as boaz
  423. # [23:38] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@71.21.91.227) (Quit: boaz)
  424. # Session Close: Sun Jun 06 00:00:00 2010

The end :)