/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-06-13 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Jun 13 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  10. # [00:57] <boblet> Normally <li>’s content is just phrasing content. if I have an <aside> or other flow element inside an <li>, should I wrap the phrasing content in <p>?
  11. # [00:58] <boblet> eg <li>phrasing content</li> → <li><aside>…</aside>phrasing content</li> or <li><aside>…</aside><p>phrasing content</p></li>?
  12. # [01:03] <daedb> Works either way, imo
  13. # [01:07] <boblet> thanks daedb. yeah I know it works, but I wondered if it was more ‘correct’ to explicitly add the <p>
  14. # [01:07] <daedb> nah, I doubt it makes any difference
  15. # [01:07] <gsnedders> I like fixing bugs and then finding out other code relies upon those bugs.
  16. # [01:08] <gsnedders> I'd have an explicit p there, as otherwise it is implied and doesn't make rendering quite so obvious
  17. # [01:10] <othermaciej> down to 216 unread in my public-html folder....
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  22. # [01:29] <Hixie> boblet: it technically makes no difference -- in both cases the "phrasing content" text is a paragraph, it's just that the <p> element makes it more obvious
  23. # [01:30] <boblet> Hixie: thanks for the clarification
  24. # [01:30] <Hixie> boblet: there's a section in the spec that talks about implied paragraphs (note that this is not implied <p>s, just implied "semantic" paragraphs, like the implied sections cause by <h2> etc)
  25. # [01:30] <boblet> aah yeah, I think that’s what I’m half-remembering
  26. # [01:30] <boblet> will re-read that now
  27. # [01:31] <Hixie> it's not an uber-clear section
  28. # [01:31] <Hixie> it's hard to really explain it because of the way HTML has implied elements
  29. # [01:32] <boblet> Hixie: oh speaking of half-remembering, I think you originally did some research looking at class/id names to inform new sectioning element naming. was that http://code.google.com/webstats/2005-12/classes.html ?
  30. # [01:32] <Hixie> yeah
  31. # [01:32] <boblet> (I’m writing a little aside on the history of the new elements)
  32. # [01:33] <boblet> Hixie: if you have editing powers on that page it refers to <date> btw ;-)
  33. # [01:33] <Hixie> it's a report from 2005, it's not supposed to be updated
  34. # [01:34] <boblet> cool :)
  35. # [01:34] <daedb> There was a <date> element in 2005?
  36. # [01:34] <Hixie> it became <time> iirc
  37. # [01:34] <Hixie> or was it <t>?
  38. # [01:34] <Hixie> i forget
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  40. # [01:35] <boblet> daedb: yeah I was surprised too :)
  41. # [01:36] <daedb> I know I've seen that page before, but don't remember the date element link :)
  42. # [01:37] <boblet> still looking for the email that introduces those changes to WHATWG list, but knowing the report is the basis is a good start
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  63. # [06:22] <boblet> Hixie: re: class="link" in the popular class name survey, I doubt this is the reason but I sometimes use <a class="img-link"><img></a>, as I tend to use border-bottom over text-decoration:underline, and need to turn that off when the link content is an image
  64. # [06:23] <boblet> hopefully this won’t be necessary once the CSS3 text-decoration:underline extra properties are implemented (distance from text, color, line style/thickness etc)
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  74. # [09:06] <Hixie> gotta love leif's simple view of the world
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  126. # [15:28] <henrikbjorn> is it allowed to have mutiple aside's for example in a div#sidebar ?
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  136. # [16:15] <boblet> henrikbjorn: sure. but it might be better to put multiple <section>s in an <aside id="sidebar">…
  137. # [16:17] <boblet> Hixie: re: the 2005 Web Authoring Stats, I’d be interested in the data for the current web. It’s been almost 5 years, so the differences would be interesting
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  141. # [16:19] <boblet> Hixie: Also it’d be interesting to specifically check for class names that might indicate a page made with best practices — things like clearfix, group, amp — and see if the code from that small fraction of pages is different to the norm
  142. # [16:20] <boblet> Hixie: finally if you really want to blue-sky it I bet www-style would love something similar for CSS
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  144. # [16:22] <boblet> Hixie: oh, sitename as id on body (eg <body id="whatwg-org">) would be another indicator
  145. # [16:27] <henrikbjorn> boblet: but the content in the sidebar is blocks/widgets with fx a list of recent items an ad or a tip of some sort
  146. # [16:28] <henrikbjorn> would that still be valid in a aside ??
  147. # [16:28] <henrikbjorn> with multiple sections
  148. # [16:28] <boblet> henrikbjorn: <aside> can contain other sectioning elements, such as multiple <section> elements
  149. # [16:29] <henrikbjorn> yeah but i thought aside was for referencing stuff on the page
  150. # [16:29] <henrikbjorn> and theese things are not related to the content
  151. # [16:29] <boblet> the thing to ask yourself is whether the content in the <aside> is related to the section/article it’s in, and whether the content is not essential to the understanding of the main content
  152. # [16:30] <boblet> aah
  153. # [16:31] <henrikbjorn> hopefully what i just wrote makes sense >P
  154. # [16:31] <boblet> if it’s unrelated to the main content (which is presumably in <article), then in an <aside> that’s a sibling of <article> (ie an <aside> that’s related to <body>) may be the way to go
  155. # [16:32] <henrikbjorn> okay :)
  156. # [16:32] <henrikbjorn> i think i get it now
  157. # [16:32] <henrikbjorn> thanks a lot
  158. # [16:33] <boblet> <body>…<article></article><aside></aside></body> is a page-level aside (applies to the page)…
  159. # [16:33] <boblet> <body>…<article><aside></aside></article></body> the aside applies to the article content
  160. # [16:34] <henrikbjorn> ohh
  161. # [16:34] <henrikbjorn> ahh :D
  162. # [16:34] <boblet> you can see an example of a page aside in the second code sample here: http://oli.jp/2009/html5-structure4/#article-page
  163. # [16:34] <henrikbjorn> then a aside related to body is the way to go
  164. # [16:35] <henrikbjorn> all this new stuff is hard >P
  165. # [16:36] <boblet> at the top of that page the coding style pulldown is in an aside that’s in <article>, because it’s related to the article (not the page)
  166. # [16:36] <boblet> heh, it gets easier
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  168. # [16:36] <boblet> to give a simple example, you know how in HTML 4 <address> was only for the contact info for the page right?
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  170. # [16:37] <boblet> in HTML5 you can also use <address> in an <article>, and when you do it becomes contact info for the article only.
  171. # [16:37] <boblet> both elements are scoped by their context — what they apply to depends on what they’re inside
  172. # [16:38] <boblet> Think Russian nested dolls… in cute little angle brackets ;-)
  173. # [16:40] <henrikbjorn> :p
  174. # [16:40] <henrikbjorn> thanks againg :)
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  176. # [16:42] <boblet> henrikbjorn: np. if you have probs or questions this is a pretty good place to ask. after that check www.html5doctor.com, www.diveintohtml5.com, or even www.oli.jp ;-)
  177. # [16:43] <henrikbjorn> bookmarked .D
  178. # [16:43] <henrikbjorn> :D
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  180. # [16:49] <boblet> henrikbjorn: (conflict of interest statement: I’m writing for two of them :) )
  181. # [16:49] <henrikbjorn> :)
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  183. # [17:17] <henrikbjorn> is this valid / makes sense ? https://gist.github.com/92e7383a585cc0e1523f
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  187. # [17:43] <gsnedders> jgraham: You'll be pleased to know I'm now listening to death metal to put certain other songs out of my head
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  224. # [22:13] <paul_irish> anyone remember that trailer thats being used instead of bigbuckbunny in html5 demos recently?
  225. # [22:17] <paul_irish> Sintel ! http://durian.blender.org/download/
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  228. # [22:36] <aliok_> hello everyone
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  230. # [22:37] <gsnedders> 'ello
  231. # [22:37] <aliok_> I am working on HTML5 support for MyFaces2 (the open JavaServer Faces implemenatation), and I want to ask something
  232. # [22:38] <aliok_> I saw there is a term "boolean attribute" in HTML5 spec
  233. # [22:38] <aliok_> the problem is
  234. # [22:38] <aliok_> I mean, I want to ask if I understood correctly
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  237. # [22:40] <Hixie> aliok_: you have to ask the question to get an answer :-)
  238. # [22:41] <Hixie> aliok_: there's a lot of people who just look in every few hours and answer anything they see that they can answer
  239. # [22:41] <aliok_> I must write draggable="true" if I need to make a component draggable, while I must write controls="controls" to show the controls.
  240. # [22:41] <aliok_> I am sure these difference makes sense, but I couldn't find out.
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  242. # [22:44] <aliok_> why don't HTML5 does not accept "true" and "false" as a value of a boolean attribute?
  243. # [22:45] <Hixie> historical reasons from sgml (1986)
  244. # [22:45] <Hixie> draggable="" isn't a boolean attribute
  245. # [22:46] <Hixie> we really should rename "Boolean attribute" to something else
  246. # [22:46] <aliok_> :)
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  249. # [22:51] <aliok_> yes, I've learnt that. I was very mad at Chrome when it didn't allow me to drag with draggable="draggable" :) But it was right!
  250. # [22:51] <aliok_> thank you, <Hixie>
  251. # [22:52] <Hixie> np
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The end :)