/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-06-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 14 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  53. # [05:55] <MikeSmith> http://item.rakuten.co.jp/icefield/c/0000000218/
  54. # [05:57] <MikeSmith> http://item.rakuten.co.jp/icefield/10011112/
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  57. # [05:59] <MikeSmith> http://item.rakuten.co.jp/icefield/10010977/
  58. # [06:00] <wirepair> ha
  59. # [06:00] <wirepair> there's now a brand called html huh
  60. # [06:00] <wirepair> http://item.rakuten.co.jp/icefield/10008676/ is good
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  63. # [06:22] <MikeSmith> wirepair: I got to buy some of this stuff
  64. # [06:24] <wirepair> hehe
  65. # [06:24] <MikeSmith> dude must have a shop somewhere in town
  66. # [06:24] <wirepair> i swear though rakuten gives me a seizure
  67. # [06:24] <wirepair> worst website ever
  68. # [06:25] <wirepair> i'm guessing harajuku or shibuya if they have a shop hehe
  69. # [06:27] <MikeSmith> 渋谷PARCO パート1 ６F html渋谷店
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  71. # [06:32] <wirepair> my terms ascii only ;<
  72. # [06:33] <wirepair> btw spoke with Abarth
  73. # [06:33] <MikeSmith> great
  74. # [06:33] <wirepair> looks like the layoutTestController they use is somewhat webkit specific
  75. # [06:33] <MikeSmith> yeah
  76. # [06:33] <wirepair> so i'm just going to incorporate those testcases into my own system
  77. # [06:33] <MikeSmith> knowed that already
  78. # [06:34] <wirepair> which i have working on ie mobile, ie8, opera 9 something, chrome, and firefox
  79. # [06:34] <MikeSmith> that's one reason I suggested talking with Slyvain on #testing
  80. # [06:34] <wirepair> yeah
  81. # [06:34] <MikeSmith> syp
  82. # [06:34] <MikeSmith> he's thought this stuff through quite a bit already
  83. # [06:34] <wirepair> yeah that irc is kinda quiet ;>
  84. # [06:35] <wirepair> i'll ping him there and see when i get a response
  85. # [06:35] <MikeSmith> yeah, if you ping syp there during CET hours, he will likely responde
  86. # [06:35] <MikeSmith> oh man, check out this hipster: http://image.space.rakuten.co.jp/lg01/48/0000990248/97/img760e01c1zikazj.jpeg
  87. # [06:35] * Quits: magcius (~jstpierre@unaffiliated/magcius) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  88. # [06:35] <MikeSmith> that is so going to be me after I stop by Parco tonight
  89. # [06:35] <wirepair> haha
  90. # [06:36] <wirepair> Awesome heh
  91. # [06:36] <wirepair> so html isn't copyright'd then
  92. # [06:36] <wirepair> ?
  93. # [06:37] <ako> txt also isn't copyrighted
  94. # [06:37] <ako> *shrug*
  95. # [06:38] <wirepair> well java is isn't it?
  96. # [06:38] <wirepair> even though it could refer to coffee
  97. # [06:38] <ako> "java" the name is trademarked
  98. # [06:38] <wirepair> yeah sorry trademarked, not copyright
  99. # [06:38] <ako> (different thing)
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  102. # [06:40] <ako> using "html" as brand name is about as stupid as using "the" as brand name
  103. # [06:40] <ako> it's ungoogleable
  104. # [06:40] <ako> and therefore completely useless
  105. # [06:40] <ako> :>
  106. # [06:40] <wirepair> it won MikeSmith over did it not? ;>
  107. # [06:43] <ako> well, whatever... buh bai :>
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  110. # [06:51] <MikeSmith> man, I'm going to grow broke buying HTML goods
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  142. # [09:05] <MikeSmith> the single-page version of the HTML5 spec is inching up on 5MB
  143. # [09:05] <MikeSmith> currently 4.8MB
  144. # [09:07] <nessy> ouch
  145. # [09:08] <zcorpan_> MikeSmith: what about complete.html?
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  160. # [10:11] <MikeSmith> zcorpan_: dunno, haven't tried it yet
  161. # [10:12] <MikeSmith> I just noticed how big the HTML5 spec had gotten because I needed to sync up the v.nu copy to the latest upstream
  162. # [10:12] <MikeSmith> btw
  163. # [10:12] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9595
  164. # [10:12] <MikeSmith> [[
  165. # [10:12] <MikeSmith> I just bumped into a wierd problem in all IE browsers and it turned out to be
  166. # [10:12] <MikeSmith> an HTML comment just before the DOCTYPE. The validator did not recognize it as
  167. # [10:12] <MikeSmith> an error but all IE browsers failed to properly assign css proeprties etc.
  168. # [10:12] <MikeSmith> ]]
  169. # [10:13] <MikeSmith> that's not a validator bug of course
  170. # [10:13] <MikeSmith> but is what that says about IE behavior true?
  171. # [10:13] <zcorpan_> yep, at least up to and including ie8
  172. # [10:13] <zcorpan_> dunno about ie9
  173. # [10:13] <MikeSmith> ah, OK
  174. # [10:13] * MikeSmith didn't know
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  176. # [10:18] <MikeSmith> yee hah
  177. # [10:18] <MikeSmith> complete spec is 5.1MB
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  185. # [11:04] <annevk> not a huge difference the splitting out has made then...
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  187. # [11:08] <MikeSmith> annevk: I guess not (as far as the file size at least)
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  189. # [11:10] <zcorpan_> if removing features from the spec has the consequence of the removed features getting implemented in browsers, then it seems like a good thing
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  192. # [11:20] <MikeSmith> zcorpan_: heh
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  197. # [11:59] <MikeSmith> http://validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fbikramgreenvalley.com%2FMain_Content%2FFAQ.php
  198. # [11:59] <MikeSmith> error: ILLEGAL_CHARACTER in QUERY
  199. # [11:59] <MikeSmith> src="/Parts/GenerateFiles/MakeFiles.php?name=ToggleDL&amp;type=text/javascript&amp;path=Parts/ToggleDL&amp;js[]=ToggleDL"
  200. # [11:59] <MikeSmith> what's the illegal character?
  201. # [11:59] <MikeSmith> brackets?
  202. # [12:00] <MikeSmith> solidus?
  203. # [12:04] <hasather> MikeSmith: brackets
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  205. # [12:06] <MikeSmith> hasather: thanks
  206. # [12:09] <craiggles> I'm playing around with HTML5 canvas element and I'm now thinking of making a game, for a game like super mario bros - http://ian-albert.com/misc/gamemaps/super_mario_bros/full/mario-1-1.gif - would you suggest me using a 2D array for the map?
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  210. # [12:17] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: IIRC, if you copy a URL with brackets from the URL bar, the brackets don't get percent escaped
  211. # [12:17] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I'm not sure if this should be treated as a Firefox bug or as an RFC bug
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  224. # [12:53] <erlehmann> hsivonen, i seem to remember that brackets were perfectly legal in URIs, aren't they ?
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  227. # [12:54] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  228. # [12:54] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  229. # [12:54] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 23:03:06
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  231. # [12:58] <hasather> erlehmann: maybe it's only allowed around IP literals even, dunno
  232. # [12:58] <erlehmann> thx.
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  244. # [13:09] <MikeSmithX> hsivonen: I see
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  257. # [14:15] <annevk> "needed" could maybe be an alternative, but it kind of sucks
  258. # [14:15] <annevk> and might very well have similar issues
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  260. # [14:17] <annevk> funny
  261. # [14:17] <annevk> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/06/11/ie-test-center-updates.aspx
  262. # [14:18] <annevk> they updated the tests in a way that IE still passes and can continue to have their silly no whitespace nodes in the DOM bug
  263. # [14:18] <annevk> (foreign content parsing tests)
  264. # [14:19] <annevk> without even acknowledging the problem
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  267. # [14:28] <MikeSmith> https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2010-June/013215.html
  268. # [14:28] <MikeSmith> from abarth
  269. # [14:28] <MikeSmith> "HTML5 tokenizer landing soon"
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  272. # [14:32] <MikeSmith> and https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AppchfQ5mBrEdDFJUW5DOGNsdmtvZkN0ZmIzMjdaT0E&hl=en
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  276. # [14:48] <hsivonen> Interesting. Either WebKit just has broader test suite coverage than Gecko or their test suite depends on more invalid stuff.
  277. # [14:48] <hsivonen> IIRC, the HTML5 *tokenizer* regressed fewer tests in Mozilla's test suites
  278. # [14:50] <gsnedders> Looks like just testing more invalid stuff, not random stuff relying upno it
  279. # [14:50] <hsivonen> Also, good for them that they have the luxury of landing the tokenizer and the tree builder independently
  280. # [14:51] <hsivonen> i.e., their pre-existing abstaction between the tokenizer and the tree builder has to be relatively proper
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  284. # [14:58] <craiggles> http://pastie.org/1003752 .. I'm having some problems with my code, perhaps I've done something wrong. well basically what is happening is that one circle isn't being filled green (#008000).
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  291. # [15:27] <craiggles> is it possible to check if a certain shape is in a specified area of my canvas? i'm looking through the spec atm
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  293. # [15:31] <annevk> craiggles, there's isPointInPath
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  343. # [18:22] <ap> hi john! hi everyone!
  344. # [18:22] <ap> sorry, wrong channel
  345. # [18:25] <AryehGregor> Hi anyway!
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  375. # [19:34] <tabatkins> Man, switching my monitors to vertical is an improvement, but it'll take some getting used to. I'm not used to seeing this much of a website at once.
  376. # [19:36] * Parts: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  377. # [19:38] <miketaylr> it's always kinda freaked me out
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  384. # [19:51] <cardona507> vertical is great for one screen as long as I have another that is horizontal
  385. # [20:10] <jgraham> Yeah that seems like a good setup
  386. # [20:11] <jgraham> I need a second big screen :)
  387. # [20:11] * jgraham has one big widescreen and one small 4:3
  388. # [20:11] <TabAtkins> Two large widescreens here. I think I'd like a small 4:3 to keep horizontal too.
  389. # [20:12] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: That I always found to be the real advantage of a 30" over two 24": vetical space.
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  392. # [20:16] <jgraham> gsnedders: With one vertical, 2x24 gives you more vertical space than 1x30
  393. # [20:16] <gsnedders> Yes, that's true
  394. # [20:16] <jgraham> Really big monitors are useful for some things e.g. image processing
  395. # [20:16] <jgraham> For coding not so much
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  397. # [20:16] <jgraham> (the basic question is "do I want one application maximised or several side-by-side)
  398. # [20:17] <jgraham> s/)/")/
  399. # [20:17] <gsnedders> Really big monitors tend to have less good colour reproduction than some, e.g., 24" screens available, so it's a question of which you care about more
  400. # [20:17] <jgraham> Doesn't that just depend on what type of display technology they use?
  401. # [20:17] <gsnedders> Well, yes. But all the 30" screens available aren't as good as some 24".
  402. # [20:18] <jgraham> (which is _never_ever_ specified)
  403. # [20:18] * aroben|lunch is now known as aroben|meeting
  404. # [20:18] <gsnedders> Also: why is everything so frickin' expensive here?
  405. # [20:18] * jgraham wonders if that is true or if you can get insanely expensive 30" screens
  406. # [20:18] <jgraham> gsnedders: High tax rates, high wages, high expectation of cost?
  407. # [20:18] <othermaciej> doh, I forgot to implement the IDL attribute for @hidden
  408. # [20:20] <jgraham> gsnedders: http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=ec17518a-366e-4f09-8173-ca42d439b357
  409. # [20:21] <TabAtkins> othermaciej, what the hell.
  410. # [20:21] * gsnedders hadn't seen NEC announce any 30" screens
  411. # [20:21] <othermaciej> TabAtkins: sorry man, I know you're disappointed
  412. # [20:21] <TabAtkins> ;_; /wrist
  413. # [20:22] <othermaciej> now I won't be able to say it takes 30 minutes to implement
  414. # [20:22] <jgraham> othermaciej: How long does adding an IDL attribute take? I thought you just used some sort of IDL in the source tree?
  415. # [20:23] <jgraham> So it would be a copy+paste?
  416. # [20:23] <othermaciej> jgraham: it will take me probably another 30 minutes, including test case
  417. # [20:23] <jgraham> Well an hour isn't so bad, really :)
  418. # [20:23] <othermaciej> it's actually slightly easier than hooking up a markup attribute to CSS
  419. # [20:24] <lifechamp> Canvas (html5) + SVG libraries VS using SVG directly: theoretically, should there be a big performance difference or no?
  420. # [20:24] <TabAtkins> Depends entirely on how efficient canvas and svg are in the chosen browser.
  421. # [20:24] <jgraham> I guess that depends on the library and what you are doing
  422. # [20:27] <lifechamp> Ok, so answer is no, in some ways. I suppose the one underlying question was whether SVG is hardware supported (whereas a library building SVG atop Canvas) would not be. It seems there is some HW support for SVG, but not widespread: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics#Hardware_rendering
  423. # [20:27] <othermaciej> depends on your library and your use case
  424. # [20:28] <lifechamp> err, sorry, i meant the answer seems to be yes, in some ways, where HW support is used and helpful.
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  427. # [20:36] * aroben|meeting is now known as aroben
  428. # [20:38] <lifechamp> Although, since WebGL atop Canvas (?) is HW supported, I suppose there can be a HW supported SVG library atop Canvas as well. I'll look for it, but if anyone knows about this, please LMK.
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  433. # [21:14] <gsnedders> jgraham: You had some idea of using numpy for computing the average run length, how so?
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  451. # [22:15] <jgraham> gsnedders: I hope you were doing something fun earlier to be working now
  452. # [22:15] <jgraham> gsnedders: But I haven't thought about the numpy thing. What does the input look like?
  453. # [22:16] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@nat/mozilla/x-fovzaxtjwppsacct)
  454. # [22:17] <MattCampbell> html5lib 0.90 isn't handling the </form> end-tag correctly, at least when using simpletree
  455. # [22:17] <Hixie> you sure?
  456. # [22:17] <MattCampbell> given this trivial test document: <form action="http://example.com/blah" method=post></form><p>test</p>
  457. # [22:17] * Joins: zcorpan_ (~zcorpan@c-1799e355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  458. # [22:17] <MattCampbell> parsing and serializing that moves </form> after </p>
  459. # [22:19] <Hixie> http://james.html5.org/cgi-bin/parsetree/parsetree.py?source=%3Cform+action%3D%22http://example.com/blah%22+method%3Dpost%3E%3C/form%3E%3Cp%3Etest%3C/p%3E
  460. # [22:19] <Hixie> says the <p> is after the <form>
  461. # [22:19] <Hixie> (that's an html5lib dumper)
  462. # [22:19] <MattCampbell> using which tree builder?
  463. # [22:19] <jgraham> Hixie: The code there needs to be updated
  464. # [22:20] <jgraham> MattCampbell: testing...
  465. # [22:20] <Hixie> k
  466. # [22:20] <gsnedders> jgraham: Gah, I'll just ask you tomorrow. I have other things to do now :P
  467. # [22:23] * Quits: craiggles (~c@host81-141-115-98.wlms-broadband.com)
  468. # [22:23] <jgraham> MattCampbell: WFM
  469. # [22:24] <jgraham> At least parsing does
  470. # [22:24] <jgraham> I suppose the serializer could be broken in interesting ways
  471. # [22:24] <MattCampbell> jgraham: Which tree builder are you using?
  472. # [22:25] <jgraham> MattCampbell: SimpleTree (not that it should matter or simpletree should be used for anything serious)
  473. # [22:25] <jgraham> (of course it *could* matter)
  474. # [22:25] <MattCampbell> jgraham: I'm using simpletree too
  475. # [22:26] <jgraham> MattCampbell: You are using the release version, not HEAD
  476. # [22:26] <MattCampbell> jgraham: And the problem is in the parser or the tree builder; I just traversed the parse tree myself
  477. # [22:26] <MattCampbell> 0.90
  478. # [22:26] <jgraham> MattCampbell: can you run ./parse.py {your input} --tree from a command line and paste the resulst somewhere?
  479. # [22:27] <jgraham> gsnedders: So were you doing something fun? :p
  480. # [22:27] <gsnedders> jgraham: Yeah
  481. # [22:27] <MattCampbell> jgraham: In the examples directory, right?
  482. # [22:27] * aroben is now known as aroben|away
  483. # [22:27] <jgraham> MattCampbell: Possibly, yeah
  484. # [22:28] <gsnedders> (and I only did around 30 mins of work)
  485. # [22:28] <jgraham> gsnedders: Sometyhing secret?
  486. # [22:28] <gsnedders> jgraham: Of course :)
  487. # [22:29] <jgraham> Wow, intrigue
  488. # [22:29] <jgraham> I will be sure to make up improbable rumors
  489. # [22:29] <MattCampbell> Any preferred pastebin here?
  490. # [22:29] <gsnedders> jgraham: What was it you made up before?
  491. # [22:29] * gsnedders tries to remember
  492. # [22:29] <gsnedders> MattCampbell: not really
  493. # [22:30] <MattCampbell> jgraham: http://pastebin.com/dZi1k9qk
  494. # [22:31] <gsnedders> Odd.
  495. # [22:31] <jgraham> Yeah, odd
  496. # [22:31] <MattCampbell> Remember, in the input, the p element is outside of the form
  497. # [22:31] <jgraham> MattCampbell: Can you try and reproduce with the latest hg trunk?
  498. # [22:31] <MattCampbell> Python 2.6, btw
  499. # [22:32] <MattCampbell> OK
  500. # [22:32] <MattCampbell> What's the repo URL?
  501. # [22:32] <MattCampbell> not on google code, is it?
  502. # [22:32] <MattCampbell> oh ok, it is
  503. # [22:33] <MattCampbell> http://html5lib.googlecode.com/hg/python/
  504. # [22:33] <MattCampbell> right?
  505. # [22:33] <gsnedders> eah
  506. # [22:33] <gsnedders> *yeah
  507. # [22:34] <jgraham> gsnedders: This time at least one of them will involve sailor hats
  508. # [22:35] <jgraham> ;)
  509. # [22:36] <MattCampbell> works in hg trunk
  510. # [22:36] <MattCampbell> I'll use that then
  511. # [22:37] <MattCampbell> Any particular reason for the switch to setuptools?
  512. # [22:39] <jgraham> There was a switch?
  513. # [22:39] <gsnedders> jgraham: hah
  514. # [22:39] <jgraham> I thought we had always been using setuptools?
  515. # [22:39] * Quits: roc (~roc@121.98.230.221) (Quit: roc)
  516. # [22:40] <MattCampbell> I think 0.90 used plain distutils
  517. # [22:40] <jgraham> (I think the answer is "python packaging makes me feel queasy every time I have to read about it, so we do not necessarily do the best thing")
  518. # [22:40] <gsnedders> I don't think 0.90 did
  519. # [22:40] <jgraham> If it did it was an accident
  520. # [22:40] <MattCampbell> ah, 0.90 used a try-except
  521. # [22:40] <gsnedders> But maybe it did. All I had to do with that release was nagging jgraham until he made it.
  522. # [22:40] <MattCampbell> so it fell back on distutils in the absence of setuptools
  523. # [22:41] <jgraham> I'm not sure we gain much from setuptools tbh so maybe it is enough to just use distutils
  524. # [22:41] <jgraham> But I don't really know what the tradeoffs are
  525. # [22:41] <MattCampbell> And why do I care? setuptools + py2exe is problematic
  526. # [22:41] <MattCampbell> yes, using html5lib in a Windows app
  527. # [22:41] <jgraham> Have fun :)
  528. # [22:41] * Quits: everton (~everton@KD118153063184.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp) (Quit: everton)
  529. # [22:42] <jgraham> Does distutils let you specify dependencies
  530. # [22:42] <MattCampbell> No... I guess that's the main advantage of setuptools
  531. # [22:42] <MattCampbell> 0.90 is 5 months old, right?
  532. # [22:43] <MattCampbell> I just noticed the date on setup.py in that release
  533. # [22:43] <jgraham> Already?
  534. # [22:43] <MattCampbell> January 17
  535. # [22:43] <gsnedders> jgraham: yes, already
  536. # [22:43] <gsnedders> jgraham: Obviously with your busy social life time flies
  537. # [22:44] <jgraham> gsnedders: My busy social life? I'm not th one having secret rendevousz ;)
  538. # [22:44] <jgraham> sp?
  539. # [22:44] <jgraham> Yeah I guess it is that old
  540. # [22:44] <jgraham> We should make a new release soon then
  541. # [22:44] <gsnedders> rendezvous
  542. # [22:46] <MattCampbell> Are there any current release-critical bugs?
  543. # [22:46] <jgraham> Well we need to fix some issues that prevent all the tests passing
  544. # [22:47] <jgraham> Nothing too serious, just little spec changes
  545. # [22:47] <gsnedders> Did you get all the table fostering tests passing?
  546. # [22:47] <jgraham> Yeah I think they pass
  547. # [22:47] <gsnedders> I had a look at that a while ago, and it wasn't easy with the current code which is quite different to the spec
  548. # [22:47] <gsnedders> (current when I looked)
  549. # [22:47] <jgraham> It is just a couple of things with <button> iirc
  550. # [22:47] <gsnedders> (this was last year)
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  554. # [22:56] <hober> html5lib peeps, have you seen http://github.com/aredridel/html5 ?
  555. # [22:57] <hober> ( impl. of html5 parsing algorithm in js for node.js )
  556. # [22:59] * Quits: zalan (~zalan@BC24C519.dsl.pool.telekom.hu)
  557. # [23:00] <jgraham> Seems to be using a way out of date testsuite
  558. # [23:00] <jgraham> Dunno quite how it managed that
  559. # [23:01] <jgraham> hober: Or, in long, no
  560. # [23:03] <jgraham> """Excessive blink rates, such as those over 3 times a second can cause epileptic seizures in some users. To address this issue the user will configure the operating system blink rate for carets or selections to one which does not induce a seizure. User agents must support this method so that authors can determine the system blink rate and adjust their canvas blink rate to match that set in the operating system. """
  561. # [23:04] <jgraham> Doesn't it make more sense just to have a lower blink rate always
  562. # [23:04] <jgraham> ?
  563. # [23:04] * jgraham finds no evidence that the blink rate can be changed on OSX
  564. # [23:05] <jgraham> Oh it can be via the command line
  565. # [23:05] <zcorpan_> does a blinking cursor really cause epileptic seizures in some users?
  566. # [23:05] <jgraham> So I guess some a11y thing could expose that
  567. # [23:07] <zcorpan_> and yeah, why would you want the cursor blink over 3 times a second anyway
  568. # [23:07] <TabAtkins> So you can cause seizures.
  569. # [23:07] <zcorpan_> need to make sure the cursor is at least 200x200 pixels also
  570. # [23:08] <TabAtkins> Really, though, I'll just include a <video> of Porygon if I wanted to make people seizure.
  571. # [23:08] <jgraham> zcorpan_: There are at least reports on the internet of blinking cursors causing seziures
  572. # [23:08] <jgraham> although few seem to be first hand
  573. # [23:09] <AryehGregor> Maybe they're fatal.
  574. # [23:10] <jgraham> (but I agree it seems odd to specifically optimise for that case when there are so many other things that could cause seziures if you are photosensitive)
  575. # [23:10] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@38.117.156.163) (Remote host closed the connection)
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  577. # [23:15] <jgraham> http://www.amazon.com/Photosensitive-Epilepsy-Clinics-Developmental-Medicine/product-reviews/1898683026 appears to be an actual human claiming to have seziures triggered by blinking cursors. Although the reporter is a little zealous in his call to ban blinking in all forms
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  580. # [23:17] * aroben|away is now known as aroben
  581. # [23:17] <jgraham> http://www.justdamn.com/?p=1627
  582. # [23:17] <TabAtkins> No blinking rates between .1Hz and 1000Hz?
  583. # [23:17] <TabAtkins> If anyone's injured by something blinking on off for 5 seconds each, they're pretty much screwed anyway.
  584. # [23:18] <jgraham> Although that one could be hyperbole
  585. # [23:18] <jgraham> TabAtkins: That was part of the zealousness
  586. # [23:18] <jgraham> I have never seen anyone else worry about rates < 2Hz
  587. # [23:19] <TabAtkins> I believe the blog post you just linked to is hyperbole.
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  589. # [23:19] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@2620:0:1b00:1191:223:32ff:feaf:7f36) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  590. # [23:19] * weinig_ is now known as weinig
  591. # [23:19] <zcorpan_> the range .1Hz .. 1000Hz probably excludes all monitors
  592. # [23:20] <TabAtkins> I'm pretty certain it does. Most monitors run between 50 and 100 Hz.
  593. # [23:20] * Quits: Martijnc (~Martijnc@91.176.27.23)
  594. # [23:22] * AryehGregor is fairly sure 50 and 100 lie between .1 and 1000
  595. # [23:23] <zcorpan_> i read about a new type of monitor being used for read pads that don't blink at all
  596. # [23:23] <jgraham> 3-60 says http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/photosensitive/intro
  597. # [23:23] <jgraham> which I tend to trust more than some random guy on amazon
  598. # [23:23] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  599. # [23:24] <zcorpan_> instead it moved around some ink-like stuff and didn't require any battery to show the image so long as it doesn't change
  600. # [23:24] <AryehGregor> It's funny how some people in the HTMLWG seem to all think that the WHATWG is some nonentity that will go away if the W3C ignores it.
  601. # [23:29] * Joins: nattokirai (~nattokira@ac242062.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  602. # [23:30] <AryehGregor> Random note: whoever decided that the Nexus One should make a noise by default every time they received an e-mail, obviously didn't subscribe to many mailing lists.
  603. # [23:30] <jgraham> Hmm, I don't think the drawFocusRing(x,y,w,h) works very well
  604. # [23:31] <jgraham> Although I might be wring
  605. # [23:31] <jgraham> *wrong
  606. # [23:31] <jgraham> Because the algorithm doesn't convert w,h accoring to the current transform matrix
  607. # [23:32] * Joins: roc (~roc@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz)
  608. # [23:32] <jgraham> (which makes sense if the result has to be a rectangle)
  609. # [23:32] <jgraham> (but means that the area defined by the rectangle might not cover what you expect)
  610. # [23:34] <jgraham> But presumably the UA can calculate the best-fitting rectangle from the path anyway, so I don't see why the author has to supply it
  611. # [23:36] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cable.ziggo.nl)
  612. # [23:36] <jgraham> I assume there is some reason it would be bad (perf?) to make drawCustomRing a callback that is called if the UA needs to draw a custom focus ring?
  613. # [23:38] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@nat/mozilla/x-lpklucggdadqfiki)
  614. # [23:38] * jgraham wonders what "editable fallback content" means
  615. # [23:40] <zcorpan_> <canvas contenteditable>?
  616. # [23:40] <jgraham> Maybe
  617. # [23:40] <zcorpan_> or <canvas><textarea>
  618. # [23:40] <jgraham> It feels like there is some design assumption hidden in that phrase
  619. # [23:41] <jgraham> that is not explicitly stated
  620. # [23:41] <zcorpan_> i guess it's 'bespin made accessible'
  621. # [23:41] <zcorpan_> though my guess is as good as anyone's
  622. # [23:43] * Parts: micheil (~micheil@124-170-47-127.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  623. # [23:43] <jgraham> Yeah, this whole set of changes reads like a reaction to bespin
  624. # [23:43] <jgraham> But bespin deliberately avoided also using the DOM for content, at least initially
  625. # [23:43] <jgraham> Did the reasons for that evaporate?
  626. # [23:45] <lifechamp> Flash HTML5 compiler coming? How about this for now? http://csharksgames.blogspot.com/2009/07/jangaroo-html-5-killer-as3-to-js.html
  627. # [23:45] <jgraham> In the nicest posible way, this is not camera ready spec text
  628. # [23:46] <jgraham> I am finding it quite hard to follow
  629. # [23:48] <jgraham> Is there enough information in the text API to make computing the height/width of characters reasonable?
  630. # [23:48] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-ogayknbnkdsfvfbu)
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  632. # [23:50] <jgraham> I think the setCaretSelectionRect stuff doesn't make much sense without measureText providing all the required information
  633. # [23:50] <Hixie> jgraham: it has more fundamental problems, like nobody will use the selection part of the API since it doesn't get them anything
  634. # [23:50] <Hixie> jgraham: (other than accessibility in ATs, which they can't test, so it'll always be wrong)
  635. # [23:50] <jgraham> Hixie: Yes, that is also a problem
  636. # [23:51] <Hixie> it's better than usemap="" though!
  637. # [23:52] <jgraham> I don't see that we need to block on this stuff; it addresses problems that only a small percentage of apps will encounter
  638. # [23:52] <jgraham> I expect violent disagreement on that point though
  639. # [23:54] <jgraham> Why does setCaretSelectionRect return true?
  640. # [23:55] * Quits: nielsle (~nielsle@1503032406.dhcp.dbnet.dk) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  641. # [23:56] <jgraham> Actually I'm lost
  642. # [23:56] <jgraham> How does one know the selection is a rectangle?
  643. # [23:56] <Hixie> it won't be
  644. # [23:56] <Hixie> i'm guessing the rectangle is the zoom rectangle
  645. # [23:57] <jgraham> Yeah that makes sense
  646. # [23:57] <jgraham> But I don't think the spec actually says that
  647. # [23:59] * Quits: karlushi (~karlushi@fw.vdl2.ca) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  648. # [23:59] <jgraham> The caretBlinkRate thing specifically notes that the default is 2Hz
  649. # Session Close: Tue Jun 15 00:00:01 2010

The end :)