/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-07-06 / end

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  69. # [03:57] <hsivonen> asmodai: I don't know about 3.6.7
  70. # [03:58] <hsivonen> AryehGregor: what's your reason to assume a connection between DRM (or lack thereof) and content companies suing Google over YouTube?
  71. # [03:59] <hsivonen> AryehGregor: as far as I've noticed, the suits have been about content being available on YouTube in any form without prior permission
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  74. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> James Clark's tweets about his first experiences with Android on newly purchased Galaxy S make for a good read
  75. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> http://twitter.com/james_clark/status/17785955624
  76. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> "The hardware side of my Galaxy S is not too bad, but the software is a huge disappointment. And I really wanted to like Android"
  77. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> http://twitter.com/james_clark/status/17827323159
  78. # [04:16] <MikeSmith> "Learning to use this phone is full of "What the f*** were they thinking?" moments."
  79. # [04:17] <MikeSmith> http://twitter.com/james_clark/status/17833894367
  80. # [04:17] <MikeSmith> "I don't know whether I will be able to tolerate the Galaxy S that long. I am *very* tempted to go and buy a 3GS right now."
  81. # [04:17] <MikeSmith> http://twitter.com/james_clark/status/17787783222
  82. # [04:18] <MikeSmith> "The basic problem I am having with my Galaxy S is that (out of the box) it syncs incompletely with the cloud and not at all with my Mac."
  83. # [04:18] <jwm> bah
  84. # [04:18] <MikeSmith> jwm: is that a good bah or a bad bah?
  85. # [04:23] <jwm> it's a silly post
  86. # [04:23] <jwm> something just like the EVO post
  87. # [04:23] <jwm> these people aren't use to android
  88. # [04:24] <MikeSmith> EVO post?
  89. # [04:25] <jwm> yeah, some old guy for a big newspaper wrote an article on his first impressions of the EVO
  90. # [04:26] <MikeSmith> ah
  91. # [04:26] <jwm> but it was his first time using android too
  92. # [04:26] <jwm> all the phone reviews seem to come from android newbies
  93. # [04:26] <jwm> in mainstream press
  94. # [04:26] <MikeSmith> well, good, I'm relieved to find out that there are no problems with usability on Android
  95. # [04:26] <MikeSmith> reassured
  96. # [04:26] <jwm> heh
  97. # [04:27] <MikeSmith> :)
  98. # [04:27] <jwm> there are usability problems with every system
  99. # [04:27] <MikeSmith> true
  100. # [04:27] <MikeSmith> especially the early versions
  101. # [04:27] <jwm> android no worse than others imo
  102. # [04:27] <jwm> I don't think android is that pretty of course
  103. # [04:27] <jwm> I like webos better
  104. # [04:28] <jwm> but I like the fact they are all built on open systems
  105. # [04:28] <MikeSmith> I've not tried webos yet
  106. # [04:28] <MikeSmith> yeah
  107. # [04:28] <MikeSmith> I would like for webos to do well
  108. # [04:28] <jwm> I like my pre better than my gf likes her moment (android)
  109. # [04:28] <MikeSmith> cool
  110. # [04:28] <jwm> I just want an open system to win
  111. # [04:29] <MikeSmith> I hope HP helps to seriously improve on it instead of muffing it up
  112. # [04:29] <jwm> I don't have much faith in corporate
  113. # [04:29] <jwm> hehe
  114. # [04:30] <MikeSmith> yeah
  115. # [04:30] <jwm> I think systems like webos are probably the future
  116. # [04:30] <MikeSmith> hope so
  117. # [04:30] <jwm> webos, chrome os, meebo
  118. # [04:31] <jwm> er meego
  119. # [04:31] <MikeSmith> HP could really help .. they make some decent integrated software as part of the printer, etc., appliances they sell
  120. # [04:31] <jwm> yeah
  121. # [04:32] <jwm> I think all these platforms are converging on linux... which is great
  122. # [04:32] <MikeSmith> yeah
  123. # [04:32] <jwm> it'll make it even more likely for an even more open / capable system to replace them all later on
  124. # [04:33] <MikeSmith> Linux is especially a big improvement over what many device makers were previously using on their devices
  125. # [04:33] <jwm> yeah
  126. # [04:33] <MikeSmith> some of them used to have their own OSes
  127. # [04:33] <MikeSmith> or some still o
  128. # [04:33] <MikeSmith> *do
  129. # [04:33] <MikeSmith> e.g., Kyocera
  130. # [04:33] <jwm> windowsce, symbian, etc
  131. # [04:33] <MikeSmith> those are in a different class than many device-makers OSes
  132. # [04:33] <MikeSmith> those at least are cross-maker
  133. # [04:34] <jwm> ios
  134. # [04:34] <jwm> hehe
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  139. # [04:37] <jwm> MikeSmith: you like websockets?
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  141. # [04:38] <MikeSmith> jwm: yeah, I expect it's going to prove to be pretty useful
  142. # [04:39] <MikeSmith> the way the websocket feature has evolved from what Hixie originally specced is interesting
  143. # [04:39] <MikeSmith> somebody could write a pretty good article about that
  144. # [04:40] <MikeSmith> "A case study in iterative spec evolution" or whatever
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  148. # [04:46] <MikeSmith> jwm: are you a websockets afficiando?
  149. # [04:49] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: the development of HTML5 and related specs have a number of potential Bachelor's and Master's theses lurking in there
  150. # [04:50] <MikeSmith> true that
  151. # [04:50] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: also a potential PhD thesis in social sciences or psychology
  152. # [04:50] <MikeSmith> heh
  153. # [04:51] <MikeSmith> I often have felt of the last 3 years that I wish I had studied sociology more in university
  154. # [04:51] <MikeSmith> instead of mocking the people who were studying it
  155. # [04:52] <MikeSmith> because I think it would have helped to give me some insights that I have otherwise had to learn the hard way
  156. # [04:57] <jwm> MikeSmith: yeah I am
  157. # [04:57] <jwm> MikeSmith: I want websocket server support in browsers though
  158. # [04:57] <jwm> MikeSmith: hixie doesn't
  159. # [04:58] <MikeSmith> websocket server support in browsers?
  160. # [04:58] <jwm> yeah
  161. # [04:58] <MikeSmith> why?
  162. # [04:58] <jwm> I want peer to peer in browsers
  163. # [04:58] <jwm> badly
  164. # [04:58] <jwm> true p2p not what hixie is proposing
  165. # [04:59] <jwm> he wants hybrid p2p
  166. # [04:59] <MikeSmith> having websockets servers in browsers doesn't seem like true p2p to me
  167. # [05:00] <jwm> it'd allow for p2p communication from client to client without a central server
  168. # [05:00] <jwm> just a simple directory list that you could get utilizing services or downloads you could find on the web
  169. # [05:00] <jwm> or connecting to a friend
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  171. # [05:02] <MikeSmith> I see
  172. # [05:02] <jwm> granted you have to transfer stuff in text using mimetypes for now
  173. # [05:03] <jwm> until 8bit binary safe websockets is in browsers (if it gets there)
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  178. # [05:16] <MikeSmith> it would be nice to get an implementation of the contextmenu attribute
  179. # [05:35] <kennyluck> hey, MikeSmith, here's the agenda for COSCUP 2010
  180. # [05:35] <kennyluck> http://coscup.org/2010/en/program
  181. # [05:35] <MikeSmith> volkmar: any clues on possible contextmenu plans?
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  183. # [05:36] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: thanks
  184. # [05:37] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: looks great
  185. # [05:38] <kennyluck> you're on the only track which is exciting, I guess. MikeSmith :)
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  187. # [05:38] <MikeSmith> no, the whole event looks pretty good to me, actually
  188. # [05:39] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: but what I'm thinking I might do is take my daughter sightseeing on the 15th
  189. # [05:39] <MikeSmith> for at least part of the day
  190. # [05:39] <MikeSmith> are you planning on attending the whole day on the 15th?
  191. # [05:43] <kennyluck> Hmm.. I see nothing interesting on 8/15.
  192. # [05:43] <kennyluck> Can I join you, MikeSmith?
  193. # [05:43] <MikeSmith> yeah sure man
  194. # [05:43] <MikeSmith> you are going to be our tour guide :)
  195. # [05:44] <kennyluck> Hehe.
  196. # [05:46] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: naoko and I are stepping out for lunch in a bit
  197. # [05:46] <MikeSmith> you on campus yet?
  198. # [05:47] <kennyluck> I am, but I have duty at Hagino-ken
  199. # [05:47] <kennyluck> you at t45 already?
  200. # [05:47] <MikeSmith> yeah
  201. # [05:48] <MikeSmith> anyway, we will be a gakushoko
  202. # [05:48] <MikeSmith> headed out right now
  203. # [05:48] <kennyluck> OK.
  204. # [05:49] <kennyluck> I'm going, too.
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  215. # [06:47] * kbrosnan is now known as kbrosnan-moz10
  216. # [06:54] * MikeSmith wishes there were more status pages like https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Mounir.lamouri/HTML5_Forms
  217. # [06:54] * MikeSmith finds https://wiki.mozilla.org/Tantek-Mozilla-projects
  218. # [06:55] * MikeSmith finds context-menu listed in https://wiki.mozilla.org/Tantek-Mozilla-projects#Possible_new_HTML5_UI_elements
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  223. # [07:35] <MikeSmith> with Mozilla folk getting together for the Summit this week, might be good to get a spotlight onto what the dev plans are for some as-yet-unimplemented-in-gecko HTML5 features
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  227. # [08:00] <MikeSmith> https://bug-41650-attachments.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=60587 is interesting
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  230. # [08:18] <MikeSmith> some good entertainment value in general in the bug comments for the webkit treebuilder work
  231. # [08:18] <MikeSmith> e.g., https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41654#c2
  232. # [08:19] <MikeSmith> I think its a sign of the inevitable madness that ensues among those who implement the parsing algorithm
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  266. # [10:07] <MikeSmith> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/62529
  267. # [10:07] <MikeSmith> [[
  268. # [10:07] <MikeSmith> Add WebSocket resource type to Web Inspector.
  269. # [10:07] <MikeSmith> When a new WebSocket connection is established, a line for that connection
  270. # [10:07] <MikeSmith> will appear in Web Inspector's Resources tab. If the resource name is
  271. # [10:07] <MikeSmith> clicked, the details of handshake request and response will be shown.
  272. # [10:08] <MikeSmith> ]]
  273. # [10:08] <MikeSmith> that sounds pretty neat
  274. # [10:08] * Joins: henrikbjorn (~hb@80.199.116.190.static.peytz.dk)
  275. # [10:08] <MikeSmith> apparently it broke the build, but I'm sure yutak will manage to that fixed pdq
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  280. # [10:25] <yutak> Yep, I'm working on a fix
  281. # [10:28] <annevk> don't you want to see the actual bytes being exchanged as well?
  282. # [10:30] <yutak> I'm planning to add the actual messages (not only bytes) into Web Inspector
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  289. # [10:44] <kennyluck> Hmm.. does <input type='color'> only allows English color names? Or is this undefined in the spec and browser-specific?
  290. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: defined in the CSS spec
  291. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> not browser-specific
  292. # [10:45] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.153.102)
  293. # [10:46] <kennyluck> Anyway, I guess a color panel would be the common UI in the future.
  294. # [10:47] <kennyluck> I am looking at http://slides.html5rocks.com/#slide21 with Safari
  295. # [10:47] <kennyluck> It's just too weird for me to see "red" being valid but "赤い" not.
  296. # [10:47] <MikeSmith> and I don't think the HTML5 spec allows the CSS English color names there
  297. # [10:48] <MikeSmith> not sure but you could check the spec
  298. # [10:49] <MikeSmith> or maybe someebody else here knows
  299. # [10:49] <MikeSmith> if a browser allows the english names there, I think it's not conformant
  300. # [10:49] <kennyluck> "HTML5 - the markup language" disallows <input type='color' value='red'>
  301. # [10:50] <kennyluck> Hmm... Firefox 3.6 does not support :invalid yet.
  302. # [10:50] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: my doc is non-normative
  303. # [10:51] <MikeSmith> it could be there was a change to the spec since after I put that datatype in my spec
  304. # [10:52] <zcorpan_> "The value attribute, if specified, must have a value that is a valid simple color."
  305. # [10:52] <zcorpan_> "A string is a valid simple color if it is exactly seven characters long, and the first character is a U+0023 NUMBER SIGN character (#), and the remaining six characters are all in the range U+0030 DIGIT ZERO (0) to U+0039 DIGIT NINE (9), U+0041 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A to U+0046 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER F, U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A to U+0066 LATIN SMALL LETTER F, with the first two digits representing the red component, the middle two digits
  306. # [10:52] <zcorpan_> representing the green component, and the last two digits representing the blue component, in hexadecimal."
  307. # [10:52] * Quits: rolandsteiner (~rolandste@220.109.219.244) (Quit: Leaving.)
  308. # [10:53] <kennyluck> I am more interest in the case of client side form validation.
  309. # [10:53] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: ↑
  310. # [10:53] <zcorpan_> "The value sanitization algorithm is as follows: If the value of the element is a valid simple color, then set it to the value of the element converted to ASCII lowercase; otherwise, set it to the string "#000000"."
  311. # [10:53] <zcorpan_> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/number-state.html#color-state
  312. # [10:53] <kennyluck> As I said Safari considers "red" valid and "赤い" not
  313. # [10:54] <kennyluck> Let me see what "valid simple color" is...
  314. # [10:54] <zcorpan_> i quoted it above :)
  315. # [10:54] <kennyluck> AhAh, OK. I thought "red", "blue", bra... were valid simple color
  316. # [10:55] * kennyluck was checking http://slides.html5rocks.com/#slide21
  317. # [10:55] <kennyluck> oops
  318. # [10:55] * kennyluck was checking http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#client-side-form-validation
  319. # [10:56] <Smylers> kennyluck: The interface a browser displays to the user and which values it sends to a server are two different things.
  320. # [10:56] <zcorpan_> kennyluck: that section is non-normative
  321. # [10:57] <kennyluck> Yes, so I guess this is browser-specific?
  322. # [10:57] <Smylers> A browser could let a user type in ‘red’ but then internally translate that to, say, #FF0000.
  323. # [10:57] <MikeSmith> Smylers: good point, yeah
  324. # [10:57] * Quits: Heimidal (~heimidal@unaffiliated/heimidal) (Remote host closed the connection)
  325. # [10:57] <Smylers> A browser could also provide a colour wheel to click at a colour, or a camera for you to photograph a colour, or ...
  326. # [10:57] <zcorpan_> does safari allow you to set .value = 'red' ?
  327. # [10:57] <zcorpan_> and still be valid?
  328. # [10:58] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: btw, you might enjoy the multipage version of the spec - http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/
  329. # [10:58] <kennyluck> I am playing with http://slides.html5rocks.com/#slide21
  330. # [10:59] <kennyluck> If you type "red" into it, it's no longer :invalid
  331. # [10:59] <kennyluck> I guess this might just be some odd browser behavior.
  332. # [11:00] <zcorpan_> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/534
  333. # [11:00] <zcorpan_> it's a bug
  334. # [11:00] <kennyluck> Notice that, with Safarai, if you click the "down" button of <input type="number"> when there's a invalid string it, you got weird number.
  335. # [11:00] <kennyluck> I just got 1.7976931348623157e+308
  336. # [11:01] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cspool86.cs.man.ac.uk)
  337. # [11:01] <kennyluck> (maybe it's not weird but 2^1024, say, maybe I should remember it)
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  339. # [11:02] <erlehmann> zcorpan_, no, it's a feature !
  340. # [11:02] <MikeSmith> zcorpan_: could it be that it's just showing "red" in the UI but actually setting .value to the corresponding hex color value?
  341. # [11:03] <annevk> this is no UI though
  342. # [11:03] <zcorpan_> MikeSmith: no, see the livedom link above
  343. # [11:03] <annevk> WebKit went about this in completely the wrong way :/
  344. # [11:03] <erlehmann> kennyluck, to use named colors is questionable at best. look up the xkcd color survey.
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  346. # [11:03] * MikeSmith looks at livedom link
  347. # [11:03] <annevk> implementing only 10% of the feature or so
  348. # [11:03] * MikeSmith looks around for tkent
  349. # [11:04] <annevk> but we knew that already
  350. # [11:05] * Quits: zcorpan_ (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  351. # [11:05] <erlehmann> kennyluck, http://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/03/color-survey-results/
  352. # [11:05] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@adsl-99-62-187-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  353. # [11:05] <kennyluck> Thanks, erlehmann.
  354. # [11:06] * Joins: zcorpan_ (~zcorpan@pat.se.opera.com)
  355. # [11:06] <erlehmann> summary: no one is right. everyone is wrong.
  356. # [11:06] <MikeSmith> kent says, "it should be removed."
  357. # [11:06] <MikeSmith> meaning that it's a known issue, I suppose
  358. # [11:06] <MikeSmith> and it will be changed
  359. # [11:07] <kennyluck> OK, thanks all.
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  362. # [11:25] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: anyway, what you really need to keep in mind is that the Internet is pretty much like MTV
  363. # [11:25] * Quits: roc (~roc@209.52.84.50) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  364. # [11:25] <MikeSmith> and remember that MTV was once hip, but that suddenly it became outdated
  365. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> that's a sober warning to all of us
  366. # [11:27] <kennyluck> Hmm... I don't quite understand though. ;)
  367. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: it's something wise
  368. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> something to think about
  369. # [11:28] <MikeSmith> wow, here's an amazing coincidence -
  370. # [11:28] <MikeSmith> http://mashable.com/2010/07/06/prince-the-internet-is-over/
  371. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> that article quotes Prince as saying pretty much word-for-word the same sentiment that I just expressed here first
  372. # [11:29] <Workshiva> You should definitely sue
  373. # [11:30] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.153.102) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  374. # [11:30] <MikeSmith> I just appreciate the fact that he seems to be an insightful guy
  375. # [11:30] <MikeSmith> just like me
  376. # [11:30] <kennyluck> I am afraid that I am too addicted to the Internet.
  377. # [11:30] <kennyluck> lol
  378. # [11:32] <zcorpan_> kennyluck: realising that you're addicted is the first step to cure it
  379. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> kennyluck: you should switch to computer gaming
  380. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> that's a much more productive use of time
  381. # [11:32] * kennyluck just finished a game this weekend.
  382. # [11:33] <kennyluck> oh, I meant computer game playing.
  383. # [11:33] <workmad3> zcorpan_: who *wants* to cure internet addiction? :)
  384. # [11:33] <kennyluck> I don't! For sure.
  385. # [11:34] * MikeSmith steps out to go buy some 12-inch singles
  386. # [11:35] <hendry> hey guys, is there a good goto to see the level of support of Web Forms 2 features in webkit?
  387. # [11:36] <zcorpan_> hendry: paste this in the address bar: javascript:(function(){alert('It sucks.')})()
  388. # [11:36] <hendry> zcorpan_: right ;)
  389. # [11:37] <hendry> zcorpan_: is there some conspiracy theory as to why?
  390. # [11:37] <zcorpan_> hendry: they half-implement the API and no UI at all
  391. # [11:37] <zcorpan_> hendry: so the user experience is that you can't submit a form and you have no idea what's wrong
  392. # [11:38] <zcorpan_> (opera has a UI that sucks, but at least it tells you what's wrong)
  393. # [11:39] <hendry> zcorpan_: agreed
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  397. # [11:53] <MikeSmith> hendry, zcorpan_ : I think some webkit devs are working very actively on the forms implementation but much of the code just has not landed yet
  398. # [11:54] <MikeSmith> and I'd suspect the reason they don't want to land it more incrementally is to avoid repeating the same problem zcorpan_ just described
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  401. # [11:59] <hendry> MikeSmith: thanks for the explanation
  402. # [12:01] <AryehGregor> hsivonen, companies try to negotiate to wrangle all sorts of things out of each other. Google wants to cooperate with the media companies so that they'll agree to let it host their content on YouTube without suing it. Refusing on principle to allow any kind of DRM would hurt their bargaining position.
  403. # [12:01] <AryehGregor> The media companies don't actually object to the content being on YouTube, they just want more control from and profit over it.
  404. # [12:02] <AryehGregor> So they might be a lot happier if there's some kind of DRM, since it reduces the risk of the videos being copied to a site where they don't get a cut of the profits.
  405. # [12:03] <AryehGregor> The point is that overall, Google is not in a position where it wants to antagonize the big media companies more than necessary.
  406. # [12:03] <AryehGregor> Plus, if there's content the media companies are willing to put on YouTube only if there's DRM there, Google directly profits from that.
  407. # [12:03] <AryehGregor> So it's kind of like Steve Jobs' open letter on DRM: "Yeah, it's retarded and anti-user, but we can't really do anything about it, so go complain to the media companies for forcing us to use it."
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  414. # [12:34] * AryehGregor finally figures out that all of these Buzz posts he's seeing from TabAtkins are actually Twitter posts copied to Buzz
  415. # [12:34] <AryehGregor> Now it makes sense, kind of.
  416. # [12:35] <AryehGregor> Also reassures me that I don't want to be on Twitter.
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  419. # [12:50] <hendry> damn, I swear this used to work in Opera http://dabase.com/wf2/
  420. # [12:56] <hendry> i take it <button type="add" template="row">Add Row</button> functionality has been removed? having trouble finding it in the spec.
  421. # [12:57] <AryehGregor> Yes, that was killed at some point.
  422. # [12:57] <AryehGregor> Before I was following HTML5, I think.
  423. # [12:57] <gsnedders> We removed a bunch of things from WF2 that were dropped, so entirely possible
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  431. # [13:02] <hendry> ok, thanks AryehGregor & gsnedders
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  445. # [14:23] <Slaanesh> This is probably not the site you are looking for!
  446. # [14:23] <Slaanesh> You attempted to reach www.twitter.com, but instead you actually reached a server identifying itself as twitter.com.
  447. # [14:23] * Parts: cyberix (twruottu@melkki.cs.helsinki.fi)
  448. # [14:23] <Slaanesh> How useful
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  523. # [19:01] <zcorpan_> "We need also to contact browser vendors and see if they are willing
  524. # [19:01] <zcorpan_> to sit round a table & get conformance/semantics pinned down in a
  525. # [19:01] <zcorpan_> future edition." http://www.w3.org/mid/9B2DE9094C827E44988F5ADAA6A2C5DA50C56E@HQ-MAIL9.ptcnet.ptc.com
  526. # [19:01] <zcorpan_> sigh
  527. # [19:02] <zcorpan_> one and half a year ago, i joined the xml core wg hoping to get conformance/semantics pinned down
  528. # [19:03] <zcorpan_> the wg consensus was that there should be no conformance requirements at all
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  536. # [19:22] <annevk> wow
  537. # [19:22] <annevk> various unkind words come to mind
  538. # [19:26] <hsivonen> wll, that xml core email isn't nice
  539. # [19:26] <hsivonen> *well
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  546. # [19:43] * zcorpan_ replied
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  559. # [20:26] <JonathanNeal> wtf guys, http://sandbox.thewikies.com/wtf/clear-after.html
  560. # [20:26] <JonathanNeal> :)
  561. # [20:26] <JonathanNeal> Anyone else seeing this in FF?
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  566. # [21:02] <AryehGregor> Seeing what?
  567. # [21:04] <AryehGregor> Unexpected space at the top?
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  569. # [21:04] <AryehGregor> Hmm, pretty sure I've seen that bug before.
  570. # [21:06] <AryehGregor> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=451791
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  576. # [21:20] <JonathanNeal> AryehGregor, yea seems familiar. The whole way content flows is wack.
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  610. # [23:16] * zcorpan_ finds that firefox stringifies null to '' in websocket.send(null)
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  626. # Session Close: Wed Jul 07 00:00:00 2010

The end :)